Businesses selling Religion

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 3:34 pm

I retired from most of my part in the net vs. scientolog war after they came to my house and picketed

I started ramping up the first time I picketed the main SF office. Had too much of a good time. They literally start shaking when we'd show up. Certainly not out of any fear but becsuse there were always a few people that could make the assembled crowd really, really angry - especially when you started reading tracts of the OTs using a bullhorn.

hoodreau · Post by **hoodreau** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 12:24 pm

I took a little quiz of theirs when I was in school. Didn't have any real idea what scientology was, had a little extra time, and gave me a chance to chat with the cute girl doing recruiting (don't tell me that wasn't planned).

Now 5 years later I can't get off their dammned mailing list. How they keep finding me, I don't know! Run away! Run away!

The one good thing was the free tape they gave me was entertaining stoner listening...

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 3:28 pm

Which reminds me...

If you really don't like someone, put their name on the Scientology mailing list.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 3:54 pm

<pre> >> I'm on the Scientology hit list. <br> > Ohhh me too- </pre>

True street cred. Gotta do it for the mush-brained kids out there.

Now, while I have no problem with either quietly or noisily boycotting businesses that push their religious or cultish affiliations via commercial products, I also believe people should look before they get hoisted on their own petards. Comes to mind every time I see Our Own Personal Stick Figure plastered on an SUV bumper.

Blenderhead · Post by **Blenderhead** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 4:23 pm

Kinetic II wrote:I asked for it and got more than I expected from Niacin's link.

Unbelievable. Totally unbelievable. Body thetans? Hydrogen bombs, auditing, Fair Game, How to shatter opression? Oh man, I had no idea. I saw the books and didn't know there was this kind of a backlash. Now any site like this could be up just because they have an axe to grind but it's a little too fleshed out to be your normal bitch session. That's just incredible!

If I use the term shellshocked it's not enough...it's hard to truly grasp the concept here, and that people can actually fall for this stuff. It scares me. And now I understand why certain states and the US Govt is fighting this.

So I can go out and sit on my ass writing Sci-Fi books, do all kinds of drugs and then make it all into a religion and get Non-Profit status so I can earn millions, create goon squads to take out my enemies and then retire without a care while hundreds of lives are fucked up forever? Hubbard sounds like a candidate for that special place in hell that is reserved for the worst of humanity. His stuff automatically qualifies him.

(In all honesty this is the scariest stuff I've read in years.)

I'm just totally fucking pissed because I didn't think of the concept first! I could be up at the mansion right now, counting my fucking money while Tom Cruise washes my car. FUCK!!!

Taniwha · Post by **Taniwha** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 4:46 pm

Bob wrote:Comes to mind every time I see Our Own Personal Stick Figure plastered on an SUV bumper.

True ... but way cheaper than the Co$ one - only takes $250 to feed it a year, and they don't sue you or send around the goon squad when you quit

Hotblack Desiato · Post by **Hotblack Desiato** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 5:55 pm

Beware of businesses immediately adjacent to org bookstores. They're usually owned and operated by the Co$. In Pasadena, CA there is actually an org-owned hydroponic-gadgets shoppe next to the local Hubborg spot... funny considering how much they rail against drug use.

Taniwha · Post by **Taniwha** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 6:33 pm

Badger wrote:I started ramping up the first time I picketed the main SF office. Had too much of a good time. They literally start shaking when we'd show up.

Hmm .... I suspect I know who you are .... I suspect I stopped at SF a little before you started ..... my most favorite piece of street theatre outside the SF Org was when I dressed as a large can of spam (to protest what they were doing to ARS at the time) and giving away real cans of spam to street people "get your spam here ..." - I went through a couple of cases from Costco that day and nearly started a riot when I ran out "no that's mine, I want to keep one as a prop"

hoodreau · Post by **hoodreau** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 6:39 pm

Speaking of cult-like businesses with mailing lists, the AARP keeps sending me recruitment letters, too...

alice · Post by **alice** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 9:18 pm

hoodreau wrote:Speaking of cult-like businesses with mailing lists, the AARP keeps sending me recruitment letters, too...

dude, you don't look a day over a thousand...........

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:11 pm

Getting back on topic...any business has the right to put out or do what they want so long as it isn't illegal. I usually ignore religious references on products unless they're really in-your-face about it or I know the business people are assholes.

On to Co$ and the Mormons...Scientology started as a joke. It's still a joke. Personally I'm more concerned with the LDS for several reasons —

One, that story about the LDS minister who pretty much owns a town on the Utah/Arizona border who, along with his cronies, does things like abandon and kick out their teenage sons before they're ready to face the world. That's okay in nature, but in the human world it's irresponsible at best and sadistic at worst.

Two, the Mormon fixation on overpopulating. Makes my ZPG hackles go straight up.

Three, and this is my biggest issue with the JCCoLDS even though it's entirely subjective — their spiritual provision that they can baptize the deceased into their religion. It can be done by any relation if they're in the church. If you don't believe in an afterlife, okay, more power to you, but personally I do, and in my eyes it amounts to karmic hi-jacking. Ever heard of letting go? Let Great-Grandma go wherever, it was her life, it's her afterlife, have an ounce of respect and stop thinking you know what's best for your ancestors. Another reason I don't want to have kids...

Ranger Genius · Post by **Ranger Genius** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:50 pm

FYI, The first group you're describing are actually not LDS, but FLDS...Fundamentalists. The mainstream church has actually disavowed relationships with them for over a century. Even good Mormons think the FLDS are crazy fuckers.

On the matter of Baptisms for the dead, in most western religions, if you don't find the right path during your lifetime, you're fucked. In Mormonism, you get another chance to accept the "gospel" after death. In order to be accepted into heaven, though, you have to have been baptized. So the only option is baptism by proxy. It doesn't make you a member, even according to them. It just gives you the option of choosing.

And whatever else you might say about them, Mormons DO believe in contraception, unlike a certain much, MUCH LARGER religion I can think of. As a recovering Mormon, I'm not the church's biggest fan. But there are many religions out there that are far more destructive to society. And few that are more destructive to individuals.

swampdog · Post by **swampdog** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:08 pm

regarding the original question, a business can put any damned thing they want on anything they sell me, I don't care. If I agree with it or it amuses me, I may buy more. If I find it offensive I may buy less. You can be as sneaky as you want (like the "satanic" symbolism people are always finding on benign products) and I just couldn't care less.

Now, spending MY tax dollars where I don't have a choice in how they're used to promote religion or to push religious symbols, WHOLE other can of beans.

Generally for religion I figure, whatever gets you through the night, just keep it to yourself.

Bob Zehner · Post by **Bob Zehner** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:24 pm

I believe that all religion is the product of the human imagination. You might as well imagine something good.

It's easy to make fun of Scientology, and I certainly do, which is based on science fiction.

But I also keep in mind that our western judeo-christian tradition is based on pre-scientific fiction.

We don't have much of a better leg to stand on. Just better accepted.

Driveway · Post by **Driveway** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:36 am

It is not the business, nor should it be the interest of science to pursue an answer to the question of the existance of God.

Religion has no buisness attempting to explain the operation of the universe.

Ultimately, it's all fuckin' coked-up ninjas running this place anyways; so we may as well sit the fuck back and burn some mutha-fuckin' shit on the way down. You dig?

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:48 am

You have all been lied to!

God- a generic title for an imortal.

Say their names!

Or none of them will answer to you.

(This free public message brought to you by the Hellenic Society of the Universe)

AIIZ

PS- recent DNA tests show that native american have no relationship to the Jews as told to you by the Book of Mormon.

TheJudge · Post by **TheJudge** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:58 am

God is an imaginary friend for grown ups.

Everytime someone tries to hard-sell me on god, I try to do the same to them on Satan. Havent had much success, but I'll kep trying. If I can save just one person....

MrGAJ5001 · Post by **MrGAJ5001** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:58 am

This relgion topic always just cracks me up.

To say that religion has no place in business (which is privte) is flat wrong.

To say that relgion has no place in public is borderline.

To say that the government should have no religious standing is correct.

There are only VERY hazy lines between those three.

In-N-Out Burger, Wal-Mart, Starbucks, and EVERY OTHER PRIVITIZED BUSINESS ON EARTH (That is to say, in America, but every business on earth SHOULD have the right) has the right to put forth whatever religious signal it wants. And you, the customer, have the right to refuse business to them.

Relgion in public places is a no brainer. No matter how much you complain about it, this country is still 85% Judeo/Christian or similar sentiment. 15% of the people cannot outweigh 85% in a Democracy. The people who are relgious have EVERY RIGHT TO ELECT THOSE WHO WOULD REFLECT THEIR VALUES. Absolutely. And you to, too. Sadly, it seems, you're FAR outnumbered.

Religion in government; however, is another monster. There should be NO religion in government, even at the cost of changing founding American Documents (The Constitution, the Delcaration of Independence, etc...). Religion IN government would be responsible for, say, favorable court treatment, or criminal treatment. It would result in favorable drafting, taxing, etc. Things that are simply unfair.

To summarize, we must resist ANY religious reference IN the government (including "May God Be With Us" type of jargon). We must learn to accept our being outnumbered, as resistence to this tenet is, truly, resistence to the very point that is Democracy. We must ignore the personal decisions of others, and those they associate with.

I think Burning Man kind of touts these tenets (Radial Self-Reliance).

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:12 am

"Everytime someone tries to hard-sell me on god, I try to do the same to them on Satan."

Only the Criztians have a Satan. They created him as a distraction so the folllowers wouldn't be asking or seaching for the real answers from real Gods.

"this country is still 85% Judeo/Christian or similar sentiment."

That figure is about level and only the illegal Mexican Immigrants have been keeping it up. Without them, Criztianity is falling steadily, Islam is rising and so is paganism of which many are new agers. With democracy, Islam, Judaism and Christianity will fade out within two centuries.

Christians aren't forgiven, just ignored.

AIIZ

Fat SAM · Post by **Fat SAM** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:08 pm

MrGAJ5001 wrote: Religion in government; however, is another monster.

Moreover, and I think this is one of the things that has turned off so many people to "organized" religion is that government (and more spcifically, politics) has no place in religion. There are too many people running around using popular religion to push their political beliefs..."Support the war in Iraq! A good Christian supports his government" or such nonsense.
It just makes me want to vomit.

On another note, everyone is so hard on Christians and Christianity, in general; being a Christian, I prefer to side with Kierkegaard on this and instead use the term "Christendom" to deliniate the "Crowd Christianity" from Christ followers. Kierkegaard was a Lutheran and few would argue that he was one of the world's greatest philosophers. It was him who said "God is dead," not Nietzsche, as so many think. The end of the quote is always left off, though. "God is dead in the hearts of Christendom today." It was a criticism, not a denial of validity.

So many people make statements of faith everyday, and I'm not talking about that wishy-washy shit you hear people say "You believe the airplane you're in won't crash; that's faith" It's a fallacy of unfair comparison. But why is it necessary to hammer on one or two or three of the beliefs? I don't hear about anyone calling Wiccans stupid or blind. You never hear that about Buddhists...and they're fucking it up, horribly! Would Siddartha have been happy to know that people worship him as a God? NO! But noone says a word about it. What about Gaeist views? Or pantheism? Noone ever talks shit about those guys...It's always the Christians.

I think it's a terrible shame that so many Christians are duped by the politicos who use religion to push an agenda...a terrible shame. Not all Christians are ignorant, though. Some of us are even kind of forward thinking. Too many, though, are default Christians, and I think that's a major part of the reason that people dog us so often. People running around saying a word and not knowing the meaning. I've read 9/10 of the Bible (skimmed the last couple books in the OT) and I can tell you why I believe what I believe. It's an earned belief. If I started a business, I'd probably put an icthyos (that little fish) on my product or invoices or whatever...Not because I'm sneaky, but because according to the tenets of my religion, the very words of the guy in charge of it, in fact, I'm supposed to tell people about it or at least not hide it at all.

Sorry for my indignance, but it's ignorant to make statements which are absolute concerning issues of faith. Yeah, it's faith. I believe in an invisible, all powerful God and a guy who said he was the physical incarnation of that God. Craziness. It's absurd. But I have faith. We can argue the details all we want, but the fact remains that until we're dead (and maybe after) we just won't know. It's just as absurd to say concretely that there is no God as to attmpt to force the belief that there is. I believe but I have no proof. It's pure speculation and I'll be the first to admit it. A lot of mainstream Christians have argued with me on that point. So be it. Saying there is no God is just as much a speculation, though.

I rest upon Pascal's Gambit: The best wager a person can make is a win/no loss wager. If I'm right, I win. If I'm wrong, no loss. I'm making a sound wager.

I gotta say, though, in spite of my trying to be a fair and sound critical thinker and trying to observe mulitple sides of an issue, I can't help but think the Scientologists are pretty left field. It's interesting that anyone would think that you can buy your way to "clarity." I've wondered what the poor can do about becoming "clear" or exorcising little aliens or finding enlightment? Do they just not deserve those things and that's why they're poor, or are they poor becuase they're already enlightened?

This is a serious question for those who can provide a legit answer; clearly, some of you have personal experience with the Scientologists...Did the question ever come up? What about people who can't afford to get better?

Anyway, good night, eplaya. See you all in real life in two days!

Cosmic Code Authority · Post by **Cosmic Code Authority** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:14 am

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:Only the Criztians have a Satan.

as do Muslims and Jews. and the Zoroastrians, who predated the Christians, have an equivalent of Satan.