wood construction question

alienfry · Post by **alienfry** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:10 am

before burning man, had you ever attempted to build giant silly things before? not me! every year my projects have been either super simple or relied 100% on duct tape, rebar and twist ties.

in any case, here's my really dumb wood construction question:

if i build something use screws and a power drill, before burning man can i dismantle it and put it back together on the playa using those same screws in the same holes?

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:57 am

In answer to your first question, why yes - It's how I found out about BM (friends who went before said I should check it out, since I already build weird stuff).

In answer to your second question, probably not a good idea if you just use regular wood screws. It will work some-what, but not be as strong/tight as if "fresh". You can use bolts and nuts with washers instead and get several/many re-uses, or go all the way with T-nuts and stuff like that (kind of like the furniture companies use to make wood parts that can be screwed/unscrewed).

Gravity Mike · Post by **Gravity Mike** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:28 am

alienfry wrote:if i build something use screws and a power drill, before burning man can i dismantle it and put it back together on the playa using those same screws in the same holes?

Without knowing the specifics of the project, I'd say avoid it. I do in fact use that technique in many of my projects, BUT they are never weight-bearing joints, only for diagonal stabilization. Even then, I usually drill fresh holes every time. You can get several years out use before the area is 'drilled out.' For weight-bearing joints, drill through with a 3/8" or 1/2" bit, and use bolts/nuts/washers to hold the joint.

Gravity

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:12 am

I'd agree with the above comments, but if you work out a screw pattern where, say, you mark for four to six screws for the final joint and only use two or three at home for the trial run, there should be no problem. Often good to angle screws or nails so that pairs or groups of them will resist pullout in tandem.

alienfry · Post by **alienfry** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:39 am

thank you!

i hadn't thought of marking multiple holes, to use some for trial and some for the "real thing"

i already have a big bucket of screws and i'm broke like a fallen vase, so i'm going to not use bolts at the moment. (i scored my wood for free!)

thank you for your insight everyone.

Jordan 10-E · Post by **Jordan 10-E** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:51 pm

My reply to this is yes you can use the same holes and screws.

The only real things you need to avoid are spliting the wood or putting the screws in too deep. Usually the smaller the piece of wood, the more likely you will encounter such issues.

The most common way to avoid spliting is to predrill a hole that is slightly smaller diameter than the diameter of the screw you will be using. Predrilling holes can be a pain though and is not always necessary.

Another technique is put the screw in more slowly, rather than at full speed. That will allow the wood to adjust itself around the screw rather than split.

Finally if you put in too many screws along the exact same line, say down the length of a 2x4, it will encourage splitting. Make sure there is a decent amount of space between each screw and alternate the position of the screws along a line from one side to the other, just off center.

I have also found that using a "waffer head" style screw, rather than a regular wood screw helps. The waffer head doesn't push outward on the surrounding wood as much.

If you put the screw in too deep it increases the likelihood that it will "pull through", so try to avoid that.

Those are some of my suggestions. If you take your time and if your project isn't going to be subjected to really strong forces, I think you should just fine.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:35 pm

One advantage to going with nuts and bolts...It's Human Powered. No need to worry about the charge in that cordless, OR getting Carpal Tunnel from twisting the screws in by hand. And if you sit down and think out a design that you can use somewhere BESIDES the playa, then going with N&B is FURTHER justified. (I'm designing a deck for my car that will double as a storage loft in the garage the OTHER 51 weeks of the year.)

fancy1 · Post by **fancy1** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:39 am

And please, whatever you do, DO NOT build it with hinges. Couple of years ago a neighboring camp built their main structure with lumber, and used hinges to fold it for transport. In theory it worked fine. It all packed neatly and went together just fine. Only, well we know the playa winds. And with winds and hinges... the hinges did what they do best. They hinged. The entire structure came down, folding like a house of cards. It fell into our camp, crushing tents, injuring our campers, pretty ugly day.
Good luck with your project.

Fancy

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:11 pm

Second that... Hinges *are* good, but only if you cross-brace the hell out of everything and make sure there are *no* foldy-points left. Case in point - Carnivals have been using them to attach wood together in game booths for years to survive in huge winds to no ill effects - AS LONG AS everything is crossbraced and locks itself out from folding up on itself. Next time you find yourself on a midway, look how they do it...

Jordan 10-E · Post by **Jordan 10-E** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:46 pm

Yes, that is what I was going to say. Cross bracing is key.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:20 pm

Frames, stage flats and such can be laced or lashed together with cord run through holes or around cleats, or hinged with heavy material eg belting or webbing. Nothing inherently wrong with any particular hardware or material if the thing built ends up working as intended and doesn't leave moop on the ground.

R1Z · Post by **R1Z** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:26 pm

Another approach--

Screw it together for the trial with smallish screws. Once you know it works, go up one screw size for the real thing. Kinda like getting fresh holes for free.

Also, old theatrical construction rule: Design it so the joints are under compression, not tension. (Parts should be being pushed together, not pulled apart when under load.)

Good luck!

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:16 pm

Don't know about you, but my joint works just fine under both compression & tension.

Sharky · Post by **Sharky** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:10 pm

Lag bolts or lag screws work great. Pre-drill your holes a little under size and then screw it together. The great thing about lags is that they have a standard bolt type head on them so you can use a standard socket and ratchet to put 'em in and take 'em out. This saves the screw head from stripping out if the screwdriver slips and it is also WAY easier on your body if you have to install or remove very many of them. They also have much heavier threads so they don't tend to strip out the hole if over tightened and they tend to hold better than "regular" screws. The down side is that the head sticks up above the surface unless you recess them. Not as good as through bolting, but definitely the next best thing.

wood construction question

wood construction question

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