V Camp for Virgins w/Vaginas (maybe Veterans w/Vulvas too!)

hunter S · Post by **hunter S** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:52 pm

Princess, Let me try to put this back in perspective before M gets shot at! It was my comment! it was not appropriate to direct it directly at Eta_G, I don't know her. It was early and I was in a rush.
It is well established that women and men that think of themselves as possible victims or targets will carry them selves physically in a manner that make them more vulnerable to attacks.

My point was really geared to the ideology of involvement & safety not a women vs. pervs. and ostracizing men indirectly. Hunter

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:15 pm

PrincessCharming wrote:Hi Again..

And Rockdad, dude, relax.. Are you of the mentality that women should not be working in male-dominated fields, and if they choose to, serves 'em right if they get harassed? It kinda seems like this is the case.. Lots of other, old-school, "boys club" type people feel the same, I'm sure. Have I misunderstood you? Please excuse me if so, but all the same, I think I'll step down off the pedestal here and look you square in the eye, brother. If you're interested at all in learning a little about the kind of sexual harassment female firefighters have been experiencing here in BC, rent the movie "North Country".. it's Hollywood, but it's got a few things going for it: it's based very closely on the true story of how women were sexually harrassed at a mine somewhere in the states, and it's really well-acted. Peace..

Oh shit my dime is used up!
Well yes you might have misunderstood me.
My experience has been of women firefighters who could toss me and a haystack over a barn wanting to be firefighters and not only becoming firefighters but very successful firefighters at that including one gal rising to a leadership rank of captain very quickly!
I have no problem with them because in my mind the basic test for any firefighter is that they should be able to move a 200lb victim from a bed in a hot smoke filled room while wearing turnouts and SCBA if they can do that I do not care what sex they are.
I have also seen cases where they are hired because HR had a quota to fill and they simply do not work out and of course that is quickly labeled harrasement! I tend to think such cases of harassment are bogus complaints/sour grapes; I have not seen the movie but will if I get a chance but like you said “Hollywood” which always has an agenda.

I am guilty and apologize for assuming an Femi Nazi (1) agenda by the original poster as the thread evolved my research consisting of reading her post’s on various Tribe sites has led me to believe she is sincere in her belief that this will work for her and I wish her the best time on the Playa regardless of my thoughts on the matter and I saw no indication of an feminist agenda..

She is a beautiful young lady that manages to put those 200lbs on her frame very nicely and she looks like she could take care of herself too.

Men are absolutely welcome to visit V Camp when accompanied by women (or to pass through V Camp quickly with a woman, on their way into a V Camper's tent for some Burning of the Sheets)

Reworded: Women are absolutely welcome to visit Penis Camp when accompanied by man (or to pass through P Camp quickly with a man, on their way into a Penis Camper's tent for some Burning of the Sheets

This is how she started the thread do you not see a reverse bias problem here? And how a Man might be offended or at least alerted to Femi Nazi agenda (2) ?
I do wonder how the women would feel if a Man Show camp was started and we were only allowing escorted women in for sex and or trampoline duty!

I wish the camp and campers the best time ever had on the Playa!
See ya on the Playa
Welcome home

(1.) Invoked Godwins law because I want out of this conversation...
(2.) Invoked Godwins law again because I really want out of this conversation...

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:41 pm

Godwin's Law - Defined:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Long story short invoking it intentionally renders it ineffective. Therefore the conversation continues.

PrincessCharming · Post by **PrincessCharming** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:45 pm

Hunter S.. yeah, I got that you originally said that.. but then Mfiles was agreeing with you about how people make themselves victims. And I was wondering about the connection here because Xta G doesn't strike me as someone who sees herself as a victim.. she actually seems quite brave and empowered, like she's done some hard time healing, and got some things figured out for herself.. I actually wondered if on some level, that was somehow threatening to a couple of the other males who responded.. I think a lot of guys feel threatened by strong women, and tend to attack them for that because they don't fit their illusory picture of how women should be weak and meek so they can feel big and powerful or somesuch bullshit. Lots of guys don't have room in their brains for the idea that women can be powerful too. In fact, fuckers like Marc Lepine (the guy who murdered 14 women at L'Ecole Polytechnique in Montreal 1989 because the "fucking feminists" were "ruining his life" and "trying to take men's jobs," oh yeah, and they were making him look bad because they got better grades) and others of his ilk are the violent creeps that they are because they're trying so hard to prove how powerful they are. Major mommy issues, if you ask me..

BTW I'm not shooting at anyone.. I'm Canadian, eh! It's you gun-happy Americans one has to look out for.. :wink: Peace, man.. :P

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:47 pm

Kinetic IV wrote:Godwin's Law - Defined:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Long story short invoking it intentionally renders it ineffective. Therefore the conversation continues.

Wait one minute! I invoked it twice! Now logically that would be a double negative rendering it effective...

hunter S · Post by **hunter S** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:01 pm

Princess you make me laugh! thanks I'll send you a gun!

You know it doesnt take much to launch Him vs. Her "sexist" fodder. too bad I thought we put a lot of that behind us, I was soooo wrong! But in this case imop you might be hitting this with a little over sensitivities! if you would go back through the thread put the gender roll & comments in reverse and tell me you wouldn't can't see why this unfortunately hit a nerve. Hunter

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:01 pm

If they want to do a theme camp surrounding pygmy goats and vestal virgins and rubber mongeese, who cares. It's their theme camp, their art. They have the right to say who does what within their space, as long as its within the law and BRC rules.

Their camp may be interactive as in viewing only, ergo the grounds are not open to the public... Their art may center on the exclusionary rules against of women, ergo only women can come in to the camp to let others know what women have to go thru. IT'S THEIR ART, damnit, and if they want to close it off, it's their right.

Try to climb on the man on Saturday, see what happens. It's a camp, it's interactive art...

bb

PrincessCharming · Post by **PrincessCharming** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:03 pm

Rockdad.. um, the switcheroo there, your comparison of V-Camp to Penis camp, I see what you're trying to say but the thing is, you have to acknowledge that our culture's pretty sexist, and that far more women and girls are likely to be the victim of sexual assault than males. And, this is in North America and Europe, never mind the countries where brides are burned, women can't show their faces or an ankle, or leave the house without an male escort, or where their gentials are mutilated at birth so that they can't feel pleasure during sex. Your argument seems to be that things are the same for men and women in the world. My dear man, they're just not. This explains the need for safe spaces for women.

Anyway, this has been interesting.. I'm glad to see that the initial attacking and "outraged" reactions seem to have mellowed to a sentiment of support.

Cheers all..

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:17 pm

God, grant me the serenity to steady my hand
the wisdom to acquire a good sight picture, and
the knowledge to pull the trigger before the SOB
gets close enough....

in solidarity...

Bay Bridge Sue <SWOON!>

Testify sister.

My sister has a bumper sticker "Dead Men Don't Rape."

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:17 pm

PrincessCharming wrote:Rockdad.. um, the switcheroo there, your comparison of V-Camp to Penis camp, I see what you're trying to say but the thing is, you have to acknowledge that our culture's pretty sexist, and that far more women and girls are likely to be the victim of sexual assault than males. And, this is in North America and Europe, never mind the countries where brides are burned, women can't show their faces or an ankle, or leave the house without an male escort, or where their gentials are mutilated at birth so that they can't feel pleasure during sex. Your argument seems to be that things are the same for men and women in the world. My dear man, they're just not. This explains the need for safe spaces for women.

Anyway, this has been interesting.. I'm glad to see that the initial attacking and "outraged" reactions seem to have mellowed to a sentiment of support.

Cheers all..

You’re absolutely right I couldn’t agree more! I feel like a damn Nazi! My mistake moving along now…

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:29 pm

you have to acknowledge that our culture's pretty sexist, and that far more women and girls are likely to be the victim of sexual assault than males.

And you seem to suggest that heading out to the playa is gonna possibly put you in a situation in which assault - or threat of it - is a given.

I'm not biting that hook kiddo. If you're worried enough that your first concern heading out to the playa is establishing a 'safe' zone above all other priorities then perhaps you might wanna hold off a bit until you've dealt with your issues.

I think what's being suggested here is ghettoizing Black Rock City in the worst fucking sense of the word.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:47 pm

Personally, I think that it's a screwy camp idea... but that's why I don't set up that camp! I sure don't see any reason you can't do it. My bet is that after having been to the playa once, you'll probably abandon the idea that you need this woman-only camp in order to feel safe.

The only incidents of physical assault I have ever experienced at BM were done BY WOMEN! One thought it would be funny to zap me with a taser, and another tried to hijack my boat. Both were entirely unprovoked strangers. No, I wasn't "traumatized", or frightened, except for how much trouble I knew I'd get into for defending myself against a female... THAT scared me...

I don't see any danger that the precedent this camp sets (haha) will lead to a segregated, gated-community neighborhood on the playa. Hell, if she hadn't said anything here, none of us would even have noticed it existed.

So, bottom line, who cares! I don't think it will provide you with any extra safety, or that you need it anyway; and like I said, I think you'll realize that after you get there, but if that's the camp you wanna live in, camp on! My camp is what I make it... so is yours... so is all of ours...

Xta_G · Post by **Xta_G** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:02 pm

Whoo.. go away for two hours, and someone's world vision changes!

Rockdad: You managed to post twice since my last one, and flipflopped your opinions, so... thanks for taking the time to get to know me a bit better, glad it made you feel more comfortable with my agenda... On polo VS swimming, I play "hole" position (aka 2m, aka the person who is directly in front of the opposing team's net, with at least one or two people trying to hold her underwater at all times).. and am a fairly standard build for players of that position... some polo sprinters look like regular cut swimmers, but more often players are bulkier! Thank you for the compliments (see? I can accept them, just like I can accept doors opened for me)... but I'm just hoping it wasn't my pictures that changed your opinion of me. Hm, what else? Having just left 17 years of lifeguarding due to harrassment (though not sexual), I think it would be appropriate of you to learn the specific terms of those female firefighters before you start bashing them based on your assumption of the facts. And, I would have no problem with someone posting a notice of P Camp, and looking for participants. I think some education by the BED project will be appropriate at V Camp, as it would be at a P Camp, to make sure that any sheet burning is done well and leaves no bad feelings!

M-Files: my current size and self-confidence weren't in play at age 6, 15, 16, 20 or 22... around 23 was when I started dealing with the nasty thing that happened when I was 15, and the incredibly positive effect of succesfully going back to my abuser and having him take full responsibility and offer me a full, sincere apology (along with a promise to do some followup education) put me on the path to being less of a victim.. though I still wasn't able to protect myself from a flasher on the street, the grab in a club, or to squarely shut down the date rape. So.. lucky? I wouldn't bother trying to put that label on you.. like I said to Rockdad a while back, just because I haven't been raped or beaten as badly as some women have, I don't feel "lucky" about it... so I wouldn't expect you to feel lucky about only experiencing the level of negativity that you have, even if it is less than mine. Unrelated to feeling lucky or not, I do try to express gratitude for the beautiful life that I get to live, challenges and all. Oh, and thanks for the link, but I AM already on all the on-line connections for local Burners here in Vancouver... work schedule is just keeping me from hitting their events for major meet-and-greet action.

Hunter: the women who have already joined the V Camp tribe have no intention of being spectators.. we're just going to participate as individuals when it comes to gifting and art and involvement, rather than attempting to pull off something huge, when we'll all just have enormous stars in our eyes from experiencing BM for the first time! I think you and HughMungus came to a good understanding of the reasoning behind VCamp - he did a good job of explaining what we're trying to achieve. Heh.. in terms of me carrying myself like a victim? Not these days... I regularly travel through the "worst" section of town (apparently poverty and drug addiction is supposed to be dangerous), and am more likely to be hula hooping with the residents than feeling worried about being mugged... then again, maybe my distrust for crowded nightclubs radiates "grope me" to everyone I brush by in tight quarters.. <shrug>

PrincessCharming - again, thanks :) I often make the comment "I'm a dainty, delicate flower!".. when I am so obviously not. I expect V Camp to be full of capable, able women.. who will be glad to accept help from folks of any gender when it comes to anything that could use an extra hand, and we will be out wandering and offering that sort of help ourselves. My dad didn't have any sons, and my sister and I got a thorough education and experience in things like fence and house painting, reshingling the roof, stripping down and rebuilding the motorcycles we each got to ride around town when we got our licences... and she and I often share laughs about the traits we picked up from both of our parents.. mainly the step-up-and-organize stuff from Mom, and the look-at,analyze-and-repair-a-la-MacGyver stuff from Dad. Both really good skills sets to have, no matter what gender is involved! And, LOL.. are you trying to deflect attention away from the gender question onto a national-pride thing? Yeeek! I'm staying away from that one!

Kinetic: the main reason why I approached Frog for "theme camp" status was to see about the possibility of getting our camp pre-placed on the playa, so all the solo virgins could figure out where they were heading and not start their BM experience with being overwhelmed AND lost! .. and coupled with our concerns for safety, he accepted V Camp even though we weren't going to be an inclusive, participatory destination camp.

BB: thanks again for the support... but aside from a suggestion to paint some banners with pretty colours and "V" words on 'em.. V Camp isn't an art camp... (yet? who knows what will happen in five months?)

Isotopia: "safety third" is a great line... when it comes to consenting to the risk. While I haven't received my ticket yet, I understand there's a pretty long blurb about the risks of coming to Burning Man.. and one of those risks, while not listed, is the potential of being assaulted. Threat of assult IS a given, in everyday life. Why would we think it would be different on-playa? Everyday life involves making decisions like not cutting through alleys, waiting at well-lit bus stops, and crossing the street if someone approaching makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up. And dealing with issues is a lifetime task - I don't think BM would exist if people weren't able to come until they'd finished processing all the crap that occured earlier in life.

Captain: thanks for your input :) I wasn't looking to raise this sort of discussion with my original post (although I'm enjoying this..).. just wanted to let other solo virgin women know that we existed, if they were searching for such a thing. I understand your hesitation to defend yourself against those women... and while I'm a pacifist who hates violence, if I'd seen someone use a tazer on you, and then watched you use a suitable amount of force to defend yourself, it wouldn't bother me what gender was on the receiving end of that force.

Heh, do you guys want me to start using that nifty quote function, or are my posts long enough as it is? <grin>

X.

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:44 pm

Kinetic IV wrote:Protecting your inner camp as in your immediate living and sleeping space is one thing. One has every right to say who comes and goes in that space. But...if you setup as a theme camp the expectation should be one of inclusion, not exclusion. IMHO excluding people kinda flies in the face of what BM is all about, about building an experimental COMMUNITY. Now there are certain circumstances where exclusion is a must such as keeping minors out of adult themed camps and doing things to comply with State and Federal laws. But beyond that...if you choose to exclude should you really be coming to Burning Man to begin with? The whole exclusion concept just strikes me as cliquish and odd.
(/soapbox)

Supposedly the CT after-party excludes men without female sponsors. What's the difference?

M-Files · Post by **M-Files** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:00 am

PrincessCharming wrote:Hunter S.. yeah, I got that you originally said that.. but then Mfiles was agreeing with you about how people make themselves victims.

Well, even if Hunter retracted his comment (and I'm not sure he did), I certainly am not - and in fact I'm going to reiterate it: If you think like a target, you will be a target. Period.

That doesn't just go for poor, helpless women on the playa. That goes for men and women, whether they're Burners or investment bankers, whether they're at Burning Man or in their cozy, protective, sky-high offices on Wall Street. It's a sad but true fact that if you send out vibes that say: "I am vulnerable to anybody who wants to take advantage of me" , then invariably there are creeps who will pick up on that and will take advantage of you. Sorry if that's disturbing to you, but it's the truth.

Of course there is no way of absolute protection in today's society. But ask your local WAVAW chapter or Tony Robbins - physical size has nothing to do with positive thinking. Women and men can empower themselves by asserting themselves and not sending out vibes that they're suceptible targets to those who would take advantage of them.

Sure, women must be constantly aware of the potential for sexual assault. But let's review the game plan here. Is it wise for women newbies on the playa to label themselves under FRESH MEAT CAMP (or whatever)? And where is the "safety" in authorizing unknown women to bring their boyfriends into camp to check out all the available single women, but still feel "safe" because at least they block single men? Where is the logic in that?

Now, this isn't a lecture on morality. Perhaps X is titillated by the thought of couples oogling over her - and if so, she's on the right path. But this thread started about security, not morality (heaven forbid). Why lull her into a false sense of security?

Rapists don't pay much attention to "No Men Allowed" signs. They will, however, pay lots of attention to NAIIVE NUBILE VIRGIN FEMALES CAMPED HERE (or whatever) signs.

Every camp on the playa offers some protection, some sense of looking out for each other. That's part of what theme camps are for. That's why we camp with our friends whom we trust.

X has said she has yet to meet any other Burners from her home town, even though she has the link to that city's Burner community website which can put her in contact with thousands of new local friends - male and female, coupled and not - with whom she can camp and give her the feeling of security we all so desire.

In the 4 1/2 months until playa time, I hope X meets with her community. Even if she still ultimately decides to camp solely with women, it cannot hurt her to know more hometown Burners on the playa.

Yours in dust,
m-files

PrincessCharming · Post by **PrincessCharming** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:19 am

Yo, Isotopia, and Mfiles..

I think you're kidding yourself if you think you'd never be at risk for an assault. It happens to women regardless of age, economic status and whatever else. Hell, assaults can happen to anybody. No, I'm not creeping around the playa fearfully.. don't know why you'd infer that from what I'm saying.. or X, for that matter. But let's get real: the sexual assaults that occur and stories of doping etc at BM tell me and any female out there with respect and concern for herself and her sisters, to keep an eye out and take precautions (ie don't get too fucked up, watch your drink, don't be too trusting with some guy you've just met, let your friends know what you're doing, etc). That's very different than walking around scared, waiting for an ambush or something. I don't think that's where X is coming from either. For her, part of the precautions is having a camp for women, who can invite men in if they want. Don't see the big problem at all here. I don't see this as "self-isolation" or "timid, waif-like behavior" as you seem to. I see this as some women deciding how it's going to be in their camp and planning ahead to avoid possible bullshit in the future. Why all the drama and criticism? Power to 'em, I say.

Xta_G · Post by **Xta_G** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:29 am

M-Files - I actually met some burners last night, at bellydance class... does this make me want to ditch VCamp and beg to join their camp? Nope... I'm excited about being with other first-timers, being self-sufficient to the best of our ability (and with huge thanks to the old-timers who post such great prep-lists and instructions for contructing camps, shade, evap ponds, etc), and sharing that cherry-popping high with each other... and I'm willing to camp with them and trust these "strangers" (though I won't call them that just because I haven't met them physically before we get to the site... we'll know each other by then!). You keep on talking about how I should hook up with locals heading to the event, but I wouldn't feel any safer with a large group of newish friends that I've met in person, than a large group of newish friends that I've met online. And what makes you think that a group of women are less able to cope with a would-be rapist than a group of women and men? Remember, we are building V Camp with very positive attitudes: we know what we want, and we are creating it, even in the face of the insults and negative comments that some Burners are hurling our way. That doesn't sound like poor, defenseless waifs to me.

Princess: I'm totally looking forward to meeting you :) Power to da Princess!

X.

Post by **AntiM** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:47 am

I think there's waaay too much being read into this camp; I can understand the desire for control of one's base environment and the security of preplacement for a newcomer. Makes the choice of name rather odd, but most of the yahoos don't read the map that closely anyway.

If anything, x is being radically self-reliant in creating her choice of camping arrangements. I might quibble with the "theme camp" designation, although as a member of a possibly less publically interactive than other camps theme camp, I'm not going to point fingers. Not every placed theme camp has a public "visit us" space, though most do. I get the feeling this camp will be more open than some of the RV circles I've seen. I'd be interested in seeing how the public vs. private aspects of V camp will be addressed.

Even as a placed camp, x may find herself smack dab up against another camp (likely, small camps never get an entire block or half block to themselves), another camp full of unknown males. Since I don't think x is shooting for isolation, I'm willing to bet they make friends with their neighbors and build their community that way.

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:55 am

AntiM wrote: I might quibble with the "theme camp" designation, although as a member of a possibly less publically interactive than other camps theme camp, I'm not going to point fingers.
.

AntiM you had the best little theme camp on the Playa! I assume you do not remember me but I adopted a piece of your Art and you invited me into your space to talk, and I sat with you and Ranger Borderline for awhile and I came away with a real good positive vibe. I do not know how any theme camp could be more inviting and interactive than yours!

Post by **AntiM** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:04 am

Ah, thanks. We're part of the larger camp Hushville, which leaves interactivity to each group of participants.

Xta_G · Post by **Xta_G** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:18 pm

I'd love to be attached to Hushville from the sounds of it, but I'm waiting to see if other VCampers are attached to the idea of having a generator :)

Thanks for the support, AntiM!

X.

M-Files · Post by **M-Files** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:19 pm

PrincessCharming wrote:Yo, Isotopia, and Mfiles..

Yo, Princess -

Time for a reality check. My entire post was about women taking precautions against any type of assault. If you think you are somehow immune (whether on-playa or off-), then not only did you not read my post, but you are also kidding yourself.

X, chill.

No need to get so defensive about your camp. As everybody has so positively, supportively reiterated - if that's what makes you happy and secure, then go for it. And just how you were so pleased to meet other Burners at your local ballet class even if you choose not to camp with them, so may you feel pleased about meeting other local Burners at other events, even if you choose not to travel or camp with them.

It's your trip - enjoy it.

m-files

Desert Duck · Post by **Desert Duck** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:14 pm

Just so you know, the tent climbing races are non-exclusionary, and will be charted to create an interesting course regardless of what the affected camps are.

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=12649

Welcome home, watch your head!!

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:09 pm

And you seem to suggest that heading out to the playa is gonna possibly put you in a situation in which assault - or threat of it - is a given.

Exactly but what would someone who has never been there before expect from a place when all they see are pictures of half-naked women walking around? Most people would jump right to the conclusion that it's Spring Break or Mardis Gras or something.

I realized these people are virgins, they have never been there before, I hope this whole thing is kinda funny to them after they get back. My best advice to them would be to arrive early and leave by Friday before the mass influx of the "weekenders".

PrincessCharming · Post by **PrincessCharming** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:50 pm

Mfiles I am unclear as to your point.. you say that if she wants to be safe she should not set up V Camp (because it would be like a "sitting duck camp"??), but then knock her for trying to take precautions in a way that empowers her. And then Isotopia and others have suggested that she should stay home if she's afraid or expecting to be assaulted.. wtf? Also, I think the "timid little waif" comments are at odds with your stated concern for her wellbeing. Not only does it seem like you don't get that V-camp is empowering for her, it seems like you're trying to paint her out to be some little shrinking violet by calling it a security blanket etc. I don't get it.. seems more like a misunderstanding but whatever..

And you are obviously confused as to what I was saying as well. I was saying no one's immune, silly. This thread is starting to seem like a pretty darn dead horse here, so peace, all.. You have my $1.22, for what it's worth...

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:01 pm

Quoting myself:

Code: Select all

My best advice to them would be to arrive early and leave by Friday before the mass influx of the "weekenders".

I ment to add (but my hour had expired and I couldn't edit it) that leaving Friday isn't so bad. You will get a much better view of the burn at home on your TV.

Xta_G · Post by **Xta_G** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:52 pm

M-Files: I actually started laughing out loud when I read your post saying there was no need to get so defensive about my camp... thanks for the giggle! (aside: have you ever re-read your posts to see what you've said earlier in the discussion??) I do plan to enjoy my trip, thank you for your well-wishes :)

Desert Duck: thanks for the link.. I'll gladly come watch the Scissor Race... and be prepared to gift my first aid skills to anyone who might need them after :)

Geekster: I appreciate your post here.. I am fully prepared to laugh about my whole approach, once I'm on the other side of virginhood :) In the meantime... if you could maybe NOT post things like the suggestion you made in the Dangerous Burning Man, I'd be grateful. Regarding leaving Friday... I was actually thinking today (while watching those amazing videos by Lenny Jones of last year's burn night).. that depending on how the week goes, I may look for some volunteering opportunity to do while the burn happens.. to be in a slightly more chill-er space, or at least tucked away on the sidelines of that mass of happy people :) I would like to be there for the Temple burn.... and cleaning up MOOP on Monday, of course!

Princess: thanks for all your input.. catch you in a more interesting thread :)

X.

Desert Duck · Post by **Desert Duck** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:07 am

Oh, it's much more than a scissors race- there's a tent-climbing race, tallbike jousting, all kinds of dangerous fun. Just thought you'd want to know you might have a group of people climbing on (not in)your tents-having absolutely nothing to do with what you're trying to do. No offense, we're just being REALLY stupid. So make sure your structures are strong, in case of wind, or climbers.

Xta_G · Post by **Xta_G** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:09 am

Desert Duck: Hm... any suggestions for booby-trapping the top of my tent? Tents With Imbedded Razor Blades, debuting at V Camp! <grin>
I won't take anything personal.. except that one idea that actually had V Camp specified as the target. PS - saw your tagline, have you seen this: http://www.venganza.org/spread/hat.htm

X.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:03 am

She's talking about my post in the danger thread calling for a panty raid on V camp by women only. Seemed like a fitting frat-house like prank to me at the time and within their access requirements. I wasn't serious, by the way, so I would like to take this opportunity to ask people that they by no means actually have a panty raid on camp V in case anyone thought it was seriously under consideration. In fact, I think I am off any thread having anything to do with V camp at this point. There's already been enough drama surrounding the whole thing and I to some extent have apparently stoked some of it. Have fun and do let us know how everything went when you get back. I think your experiance might just turn out to be nothing like what you expected going in.