Project Megapixels - Picture Construction Subgroup Area

[sputnik]

This forum will be used for those people interested in discussing how to actually construct the picture. Please keep in mind that the picture will be composed of pixels which are roughly 1 square meter of fabric. These pixels may, or may not, arrive on the playa in groups of anywhere from 1 to 100.

I think this group would work best with about 10 people primarily involved.

[robotland]

I think that every pixel should be grommeted in the corners, if possible, so that they can be linked together AND staked more easily. Or at least have cord tied/knotted into the corners, or zipstrips. And that large patches of pixels be sewn together, again where possible, to reduce on-playa assembly. Or will the location of each pixel be "triaged" on-site?

[regionalchaos]

I think that every pixel should be grommeted in the corners, if possible, so that they can be linked together AND staked more easily. Or at least have cord tied/knotted into the corners, or zipstrips. And that large patches of pixels be sewn together, again where possible, to reduce on-playa assembly. Or will the location of each pixel be "triaged" on-site?

I think grommets would be nice, but is asking a lot from volunteers. Some people who might bring scrap from home might not if they had to track down a grommet maker to use first.

However, I think it would be invaluable for us to have a grommet maker with us out on the playa. For repairs, etc..

[sputnik]

I had the same feeling as Jim, Steve, but I suppose this isn't much different than expecting people to have access to a sewing machine. I'll work up a drawing of a line of 3 pixels and post it later in the day.

[Bob]

Still wedded to doing this with hundreds of pieces of fabric and thousands of stakes? A small rental lawn tractor with a cultivator attachment, or just a tow-behind rig for a 4WD truck, would probably take less truck space to bring to the desert, and scratching the design into the playa means zero probability of stakes & fabric shreds left for DPW to clean up.

I'd suggest at least doing a dry run on a summer weekend on a windy & dusty part of the playa -- eg downwind of the Gate location.

[sputnik]

Yes Bob. I could do an image by myself the way you suggest. The whole point of this is about getting a large number of people involved (which we could be with a thousand people raking the dirt, but I also doubt I could get that many together at one time, especially early in the morning).

However, thinking of this makes me think of this:

[Bob]

http://www.lucypringle.co.uk/photos/2001/uk2001dn.html

[Bob]

[robotland]

I think grommets would be nice, but is asking a lot from volunteers. Some people who might bring scrap from home might not if they had to track down a grommet maker to use first.

However, I think it would be invaluable for us to have a grommet maker with us out on the playa. For repairs, etc..

Agreed- I don't expect anyone/everyone to scamper out and buy a grommeter, but rather that those who DO have one USE IT and the rest get handled later...I, for one, would volunteer my grommet kit and hands for a shift or two of setting grommets.
Almost everyone, on the other hand, has access to string or light rope, and could knot a line into the corners of their material.
I might have to do a smaller version of this project myself...Since starting at the screenprinting job two days ago, I've already accumulated a sizable roll of 32" scrap,, albeit all in short lengths. At the very least, I can contribute some lovely Sea Green and Pac Blue pennants......

[sputnik]

Just some thoughts on scale:

5400 pixels in the current image. Could be as low as 2000.

Seconds in an 8 hour day = 28800

Seconds in four 8 hour days = 115200

Seconds per pixel (5000) = 23

Seconds per pixel (2000) = 57

So...what this is saying is that there is a hell of a lot of work to do to get the pixels laid down. Preconstruction of large sections will be key to getting this done.

[sputnik]

Division of effort that is.

Right now there are about 75 people signed up to bring pixels.

We can get almost 10 people on site at any given time if we run 8 work shifts of 4 hours each.

10 x 23 seconds = 230 seconds which is 4 minutes per pixel per person for the full size image.

More hands make lighter work for all.

[CampCounsellorBRAD]

Division of effort that is.

Right now there are about 75 people signed up to bring pixels.

We can get almost 10 people on site at any given time if we run 8 work shifts of 4 hours each.

10 x 23 seconds = 230 seconds which is 4 minutes per pixel per person for the full size image.

More hands make lighter work for all.

Division of work is key.... I agree.

Some thoughts:
1) Systemize: We will need to make it so someone can walk up, go "COOL" and be told what to do by someone (random) working there...

a) Pixel Placement: I would suggest some system to pre mark the pixels. Spray paints on rope laid across the ground would seem to be easy. So the grid would be laid out on the playa... you just make the pieces cover the guide ropes marked with the right color.

b) Pixel attachement. Having the pixels wrap around a rope on two sides is probably ideal... attaching the fabric to the rope by using household staplers (a Red Swingline (from Office Space) would, of course, be best!)... This is fast, cheap, and everyone has them. These can be done prior, and have a simple pole rig to push rope through.). (Not quite as good as sewing, but 5-10 staples a side should do it - using masking tape to support stapes in corners would be stronger).

c) Attaching to Playa: We will need rebar, and a mini rebar driver (like the perimeter fence post drivers, just smaller... essentially a steel pole 4'long, with a 6-8 tube (bit larger then the rebar) welded together. Pole is weight, tube holds rebar, lift and drop... repeat. There will be MANY rebar to do. Attach instructions to driver... (e.g. "Drive a rebar every 5 paces, leave 4" above the playa").

d) Instruction Signs... It would be best that there was signs that people could simply read what / how / where... etc. We could post a signs around the BRC (with a map) so people could find there way there to help... I'm sure various camps around the playa would be happy to post a sign... Then when people got there.. we could have a few signs explaining how to do things. (laying out pixels, attaching them, playa rebar, etc)... That way, no time lost in training newbies... they learn and do... Supervision would be to ensure systems working properly.

2) Fabric Sources:
Talking to an artist friend, she suggested that we contact hotels. The top quality hotels (Hiltons, Sheratons etc) tend to throw out their ripped/ratty bed sheets... usually monthly (or dontated to charity). Contacting the manager of housekeeping is the best place to start.

3)Site Placement.
A Toronto Burners (Stephanie) is the Artery queen (placers of the Art). We should co-ordinate with them to get a placement that:
- Is big enough....
- Close to a tall structure that people can climb (like Michaels(?) welded structures). To see the MegaPixels....
- close enough that people don't have to walk TOO far...

Some thoughts....
brad

[CampCounsellorBRAD]

Sputnik:

Where are we on co-ordinating with Space Imaging? Are we paying them to take a picture, or just assuming they will be capturing the picture... (or just using an airplane).

Curious...
Brad.

[sputnik]

Division of work is key.... I agree.

Some thoughts:
1) Systemize: We will need to make it so someone can walk up, go "COOL" and be told what to do by someone (random) working there...

I agree. Once we've got this nailed down then a small group of people can put this together so that we agree it's simple enough.

a) Pixel Placement: I would suggest some system to pre mark the pixels. Spray paints on rope laid across the ground would seem to be easy. So the grid would be laid out on the playa... you just make the pieces cover the guide ropes marked with the right color.

That could work. I hadn't really considered painting marks on the ropes for the columns. I was thinking there would be both column and row ropes, but perhaps that would be a problem. Maybe row ropes every tenth or so.

b) Pixel attachement. Having the pixels wrap around a rope on two sides is probably ideal... attaching the fabric to the rope by using household staplers (a Red Swingline (from Office Space) would, of course, be best!)... This is fast, cheap, and everyone has them. These can be done prior, and have a simple pole rig to push rope through.). (Not quite as good as sewing, but 5-10 staples a side should do it - using masking tape to support stapes in corners would be stronger).

What worries me about staples is having them work out easily, especially a standard stapler. I have found fabric staplers online that have staples especially designed for fabric. I also thought that it might make sense to put some of that strapping (the stuff that newspapers are bundled with) on either side of the fabric to provide extra support. What do you think?

Having the pixels arrive on site with this work already done is OK, but it does mean that we have to assemble in the order of the image. If we do the stapling on site we can assemble the pixels in random order as they arrive.

c) Attaching to Playa: We will need rebar, and a mini rebar driver (like the perimeter fence post drivers, just smaller... essentially a steel pole 4'long, with a 6-8 tube (bit larger then the rebar) welded together. Pole is weight, tube holds rebar, lift and drop... repeat. There will be MANY rebar to do. Attach instructions to driver... (e.g. "Drive a rebar every 5 paces, leave 4" above the playa").

The best way to space out the image will be to have a rope premarked with the pixel width. I was thinking we would need three ropes to form a triangle. Lay out the triangle to get two sides and then flip across the center piece to lay out the other two sides. Othewise, yeah, rebar is the way to go. We'll need lots of tennis balls or stuffed animals or something to cover up all this rebar. I can't imagine anyone is going to candycane a few hundred rebars.

d) Instruction Signs... It would be best that there was signs that people could simply read what / how / where... etc. We could post a signs around the BRC (with a map) so people could find there way there to help... I'm sure various camps around the playa would be happy to post a sign... Then when people got there.. we could have a few signs explaining how to do things. (laying out pixels, attaching them, playa rebar, etc)... That way, no time lost in training newbies... they learn and do... Supervision would be to ensure systems working properly.

2) Fabric Sources:
Talking to an artist friend, she suggested that we contact hotels. The top quality hotels (Hiltons, Sheratons etc) tend to throw out their ripped/ratty bed sheets... usually monthly (or dontated to charity). Contacting the manager of housekeeping is the best place to start.

We can certainly suggest that folks do this, but again this depends on whether or not we think that dyeing the fabric is a decent way to go. I suppose it is, but I have no experience with this and don't know how difficult it is.

3)Site Placement.
A Toronto Burners (Stephanie) is the Artery queen (placers of the Art). We should co-ordinate with them to get a placement that:
- Is big enough....
- Close to a tall structure that people can climb (like Michaels(?) welded structures). To see the MegaPixels....
- close enough that people don't have to walk TOO far...

Cool. I'm going to be at Nutopia, so maybe we'll meet there.

[noise_e_piranha]

I think it will be essential to keep the participation process as simple as possible. While there have been some great ideas about ways to affix the pixels to the playa (rope, grommets, etc) I think driving a stake thru the fabric about two inches in on each corner would be sufficient and require the least amount of effort. Coleman makes some decent tent stakes that are like big nails with plastic clips on the top. These are very effective, and a pack of four is only $2 at Wal-Mart (slightly higher at less-evil stores).

Lay out grid lines in advance using twine and similar stakes (one stake every 10 pixels or so). Avoid too many items that will require an extensive cleanup effort.

Ask each participant to bring not only the fabric, but the corner stakes, and you've reduced the project budget significantly.

BTW, you're paying too much for web hosting -- check out www.mediacatch.com for $3.95/month hosting (there are lots of other companies out there, too, some that charge even less).

Also BTW, check in advance with one of the nearby reservations or even gerlach schools, they might be interested in taking the fabric as a donation for an arts and crafts project (or other uses) after Burning Man, since the fabric should be mostly intact (although a bit dusty).

[sputnik]

Sputnik:

Where are we on co-ordinating with Space Imaging? Are we paying them to take a picture, or just assuming they will be capturing the picture... (or just using an airplane).

Curious...
Brad.

I've had some discussions with a guy who works for google earth and it ssounds like they might be taking the picture again this year (apparently they paid for it last year). Space imaging using the Ikonos satellite, but that one doesn't have good enough resolution. I'd like to get the photo taken by QuickBird which has a .6m resolution (at best). Based on our location and timing it looks like the best they can manage is 1 meter, which is OK, but not as good as I had hoped for. I can get the image scheduled, it's just a matter of money. There isn't a rush. I couldn't even get them to commit to a time until June anyway. I'm certain someone will take a photo from a plane at minimum.

[sputnik]

In an email

If we just put a small rope fence around the image, and hang xmas lights (on gen set) for night... we don't need to worry about the fence. Besides, a dust storm is going to mark up the image worse than any 1000 footprints. Besides, a $100 leaf blower will clean off the dust for the pix ... (That would be something funny to do...) blowing off the playa...

That would be fine, and I really expect it's what will happen in the end. A string of lights is enough to keep cars and bikes from running across the thing. Of course, having a row of rebar sticking up will stop most vehicles soon anyway.

The satelite image can be presold. I paid $40 for an image last year. We only have to pre-sell 120 or so images to pay for the satelite image. I think THAT is easy to do. Besides that is an awesome way to fund raise for this. (Make it conditional... if we don't get enough for a satelite image, an airplane image will be taken. My friend is a Photographer with the BR Beacon, and has a high pixel digital SLR (professional) camera, I have some connections to getting him in a plane... (my cousin runs the GCBEC http://www.wickedsunshine.com/GCBEC/ and he knows pilots... because that is the prise for the best beaver eating... weird but true... gotta love burners..)

Yeah, we can go down that road of selling the image. If I pay for it, then I own the digital version and can redistribute it. Maybe pay extra for prints after the fact.

Another thought is selling t-shirts. I have a silk screen set-up... and can crank out t-shirts... bandanas... etc. maybe its an option.

So maybe we should talk about how to sell the image. If we pay for it, it is ours... we can sell a poster, desktop versions (personalized with thier name), etc.

It's an option. We made up T's for Quixotica last year, but it really only just broke even.

[sputnik]

I think it will be essential to keep the participation process as simple as possible. While there have been some great ideas about ways to affix the pixels to the playa (rope, grommets, etc) I think driving a stake thru the fabric about two inches in on each corner would be sufficient and require the least amount of effort. Coleman makes some decent tent stakes that are like big nails with plastic clips on the top. These are very effective, and a pack of four is only $2 at Wal-Mart (slightly higher at less-evil stores).

Simple is good. What concerns me about this is cleanup. If it's so cheap, many people will walk away and not look back. With 5000 pixels that means we'll have 20,000 little plastic stakes to deal with. My cleanup plan assuming we use rope is to cut each row free, bundle it up and take it to a burn platform. If we have to pull out 20,000 stakes we'll be there for hours pulling out a few rows.

Lay out grid lines in advance using twine and similar stakes (one stake every 10 pixels or so). Avoid too many items that will require an extensive cleanup effort.

I agree

Ask each participant to bring not only the fabric, but the corner stakes, and you've reduced the project budget significantly.

Yep. My email recently indicated these were the costs in the budget. The only issue with having participants bring the essential infrastructure items like rebar stakes is that we need to have that all in place before most people arrive.

BTW, you're paying too much for web hosting -- check out www.mediacatch.com for $3.95/month hosting (there are lots of other companies out there, too, some that charge even less).

I'm not paying for web hosting right now. The site is running on a laptop in my basement using my home's service.

Also BTW, check in advance with one of the nearby reservations or even gerlach schools, they might be interested in taking the fabric as a donation for an arts and crafts project (or other uses) after Burning Man, since the fabric should be mostly intact (although a bit dusty).

Maybe. Some folks have suggested that it'll be too dirty with playa to clean. I don't know about that. I'd be happy for someone to organize this, but my plan is not to truck it out. Anyone who wants to do that is welcome to.

[noise_e_piranha]

Oh, I saw $9.95/month in the budget for web hosting... thought you were paying that much.

What do you currently expect to happen with the fabric? Like you said, I expect most people will NOT return to take it back. It's too easy to walk away from, and not worth the potential hassle of reclaiming. I think if you try to burn it, you'll end up with a huge cloud of toxic black smoke because the most affortable fabric is made of plastic.

[sputnik]

What do you currently expect to happen with the fabric? Like you said, I expect most people will NOT return to take it back. It's too easy to walk away from, and not worth the potential hassle of reclaiming. I think if you try to burn it, you'll end up with a huge cloud of toxic black smoke because the most affortable fabric is made of plastic.

Which is why I am recommending cotton sheeting or some other similar natural fabric.

[noise_e_piranha]

I think it's a great recommendation... the question is, can you count on the vast majority of participants to comply?

[sputnik]

I don't know. All I can do is try. Anything obviously synthetic will have to be taken out with the trash.

[CampCounsellorBRAD]

a) Pixel Placement: I would suggest some system to pre mark the pixels. Spray paints on rope laid across the ground would seem to be easy. So the grid would be laid out on the playa... you just make the pieces cover the guide ropes marked with the right color.

That could work. I hadn't really considered painting marks on the ropes for the columns. I was thinking there would be both column and row ropes, but perhaps that would be a problem. Maybe row ropes every tenth or so.

>> I was envisioning a rope (thin twine) for each pixel... they would go up an down the playa in either columns (or rows). Where there is a red spot, a red pixel goes on. Yellow for yellow. etc.

b) Pixel attachement. Having the pixels wrap around a rope on two sides is probably ideal... attaching the fabric to the rope by using household staplers (a Red Swingline (from Office Space) would, of course, be best!)... This is fast, cheap, and everyone has them. These can be done prior, and have a simple pole rig to push rope through.). (Not quite as good as sewing, but 5-10 staples a side should do it - using masking tape to support stapes in corners would be stronger).

What worries me about staples is having them work out easily, especially a standard stapler. I have found fabric staplers online that have staples especially designed for fabric. I also thought that it might make sense to put some of that strapping (the stuff that newspapers are bundled with) on either side of the fabric to provide extra support. What do you think?

>> The straping might be ok, but it is plastic - toxic to burn. Masking tape is paper.
Whether paper staplers will work as well as fabric staplers... I think we should do some bad ass testing with a bunch of fabric and some leaf blowers (simulate dust storms)... Make a flag and fly them for a while.

Having the pixels arrive on site with this work already done is OK, but it does mean that we have to assemble in the order of the image. If we do the stapling on site we can assemble the pixels in random order as they arrive.
>> if the pixels are stapled individually... then they can assembled on site. What we need is a 4' thin pole (wire really) attached to the rope. Someone just threads the pixels on the rope... pulls them down. You could do 10-20 easily at once. Debatable which is faster, stapling on site or pre stapled? Dunno... more research needed. (Hey Dan, sounds like you and I are gonna get together for a work weekend... and play with fabric... we live about 2hrs drive away.

c) Attaching to Playa: We will need rebar, and a mini rebar driver (like the perimeter fence post drivers, just smaller... essentially a steel pole 4'long, with a 6-8 tube (bit larger then the rebar) welded together. Pole is weight, tube holds rebar, lift and drop... repeat. There will be MANY rebar to do. Attach instructions to driver... (e.g. "Drive a rebar every 5 paces, leave 4" above the playa").

The best way to space out the image will be to have a rope premarked with the pixel width. I was thinking we would need three ropes to form a triangle. Lay out the triangle to get two sides and then flip across the center piece to lay out the other two sides. Othewise, yeah, rebar is the way to go. We'll need lots of tennis balls or stuffed animals or something to cover up all this rebar. I can't imagine anyone is going to candycane a few hundred rebars.
>> Not sure I understand the triangle. I was thinking that we would have two parallel ropes, on each side of a pixel. These would be attached to rebar posts (very short) spaced every few pixels. There would not be a need for cross or diag. ropes...
The cost for used tennis balls on eBay (to top rebar) is about $.20 each. Very doable.

2) Fabric Sources:
Talking to an artist friend, she suggested that we contact hotels. The top quality hotels (Hiltons, Sheratons etc) tend to throw out their ripped/ratty bed sheets... usually monthly (or dontated to charity). Contacting the manager of housekeeping is the best place to start.

We can certainly suggest that folks do this, but again this depends on whether or not we think that dyeing the fabric is a decent way to go. I suppose it is, but I have no experience with this and don't know how difficult it is.

I have some experience... but from my understanding, not that complex.
The chemicals are very simple... and we could some dye-ing on site, if need be...

http://www.gsdye.com/Canada/ProcionMX.html#anchor142775

Enough die to make 100 litres of dye (and 1 litre/quart would dye 5-10 pixels (i guess)) costs $40... some soda ash/salt and urea is all that is needed to mix it up.

3)Site Placement.
A Toronto Burners (Stephanie) is the Artery queen (placers of the Art). We should co-ordinate with them to get a placement that:
- Is big enough....
- Close to a tall structure that people can climb (like Michaels(?) welded structures). To see the MegaPixels....
- close enough that people don't have to walk TOO far...

Cool. I'm going to be at Nutopia, so maybe we'll meet there.[/quote]
Yes, Steph will not be, but you and I can figure it out.

[sputnik]

>> I was envisioning a rope (thin twine) for each pixel... they would go up an down the playa in either columns (or rows). Where there is a red spot, a red pixel goes on. Yellow for yellow. etc.

I wrote a whole lot here, but then it went away somehow. Anyway, I'm adding this back in as best as I can recall...

I was thinking of putting row and column numbers up at the ends of each row and column. Then you just walk to the right row and walk up to the column. We'll need to leave a small walk space between rows.

if the pixels are stapled individually... then they can assembled on site. What we need is a 4' thin pole (wire really) attached to the rope. Someone just threads the pixels on the rope... pulls them down. You could do 10-20 easily at once. Debatable which is faster, stapling on site or pre stapled? Dunno... more research needed. (Hey Dan, sounds like you and I are gonna get together for a work weekend... and play with fabric... we live about 2hrs drive away.

I'll bring some stuff to Nutopia. Maybe we can put some stuff out at 1/4 scale.

>> Not sure I understand the triangle. I was thinking that we would have two parallel ropes, on each side of a pixel. These would be attached to rebar posts (very short) spaced every few pixels. There would not be a need for cross or diag. ropes...
The cost for used tennis balls on eBay (to top rebar) is about $.20 each. Very doable.

The only thing about the triangle is that it assures that the sides are 90 degrees to each other.

I have some experience... but from my understanding, not that complex.
The chemicals are very simple... and we could some dye-ing on site, if need be...

http://www.gsdye.com/Canada/ProcionMX.html#anchor142775

Enough die to make 100 litres of dye (and 1 litre/quart would dye 5-10 pixels (i guess)) costs $40... some soda ash/salt and urea is all that is needed to mix it up.

OK. I'm really not too keen on trying to do all this on the playa, especially getting rid of 100 litres of water full of dye and chemicals.

[S1m3R]

I've mentioned to Sputnik before that I worry about the thing staying put. I will put some effort to collect information regarding the structure of the picture so it stays in "one piece" in terms of what the camera will see. Sputnik, do you have a guess on the size gaps that will be tolerable between rows or columns in terms of picture continuity?

We need to get a handle on the forces we expect the attachment system to take. We need to get a read on what is the force it take to pull out a stake. I've never been to the playa. Could I use sand as an equivilant material or does it have to be dust. Is it just bottomless dust?

If the material that is used is shredded from being washed a bazzillion times my guess is that the integrity is shot and will shred under the forces from the wind. I've heard 70 mph several times. Is that a good 3/4 worse case we would want to design for? Do we want to go for 100% worse case? my guess is that we'd end up needing kevlar fiber sheets with teflon thread sewn by 30 year old virgins. I don't know where to get any of that.

If someone wants to play with a home stapler and sheeting ... try and get a sense at the force that will "unzip" the staples. I'm imagining a rope pulling hard on the lead staple and then bling bling bling off she goes into the wild blue.

[sputnik]

I'm going to set something up on top of my van sometime in the next few days to test material and methods. I'll report back. Anyone else is welcome to do so as well.

Today I printed up a version of the image with a grid overlayed onto it in 3' x 3' size. It's impressive and daunting at the same time. Right now we have just under 1000 pixels spoken for. Unless we can more than double that number in 2 months we won't be doing this at all. 2000 is the minimum we need to do the head.

As to the space between rows. I think we can easily get by with 8 inches. I wouldn't go more than that as it will be noticeable.

[S1m3R]

woke up with thoughts about this project.

if 8 inches is a safe distance then we might use that to not only vent the picture but also to minimize the pixles needed. if we make each pixel 36 inches then that means 5 gaps eliminates one row or column.

36 inches allows for 2 inch wide seams or channels to run the cords through. that would allow for about a 1 inch cord. probably bigger than needed.

I wonder if 3x3 pixel units would work. I was thinking about compartmentalizing the units so that damage would be contained and localized. also the 3x3 panels would limit the sail area. also the flatter the sails the better to keep the loads from pulling UP on the rebar.

the corners could be made of rebar pairs welded together with the ends bent to form a V. at the playa pound in the rebar and use the cord to make a rectangle and then 3 columns. have people bring their pixels in 3 column sets. run the cords through the channels. no cords running across the columns. The V makes it easy for the volunteers to help get the height right. I can imagine saying to people "get the bottom of the V one foot off the ground. put the rope at the bottom of the V." We could either tie the rope to the rebar or have it knotted on the end and wire tie the rope to the rebar.

having the picture down on the playa sounds like it would just get obliterated by the dust. I was thinking the rebar would hold it off the ground about a foot. the wind would hopefully shake off the dust. I think we'd reach an equilibrium of dust deposited and shaken off. if it's on the ground I think we'd would end up sweeping the thing.

if we saved the picture year to year then each year as more pixels come in then the picture grows. The picture is not timely ... it is timeless. I know that sounds awful to bring all that shit back to detroit but to destroy the work and accumulated material seems wrong considering 100% success the first year out is not likely. The rebar would have to be carried out anyway so the real add is the fabric. I would think the truck hauling stuff out will have more room to haul stuff back. No? It would seem like all the fabric could fit in a couple of basements.

I wonder if someone has some survey equipement so we could spot the locations for the bars. Doing all of this with a tape measure at ground level seems difficult to get right. I might have a connection but it would be a long shot. I'll try for it if no one else has some at their disposal and Sputnik thinks it is necessary to get a quality picture. I don't think we want it to look like a cubist rendition of the picture chosen.

I put out some leads to understand how sails are sized. I'll let you know if I find out something.

[sputnik]

woke up with thoughts about this project.

if 8 inches is a safe distance then we might use that to not only vent the picture but also to minimize the pixles needed. if we make each pixel 36 inches then that means 5 gaps eliminates one row or column.

Good point, but I'm not too worried about us exceeding any space requirements. It does mean that the image would stretch out in that direction and we should take that into account.

36 inches allows for 2 inch wide seams or channels to run the cords through. that would allow for about a 1 inch cord. probably bigger than needed.

I wonder if 3x3 pixel units would work. I was thinking about compartmentalizing the units so that damage would be contained and localized. also the 3x3 panels would limit the sail area. also the flatter the sails the better to keep the loads from pulling UP on the rebar.

3x3 would work, but I want to make them as large as possible since the satellite won't be working at the highest resolution. Also fabric comes in standard widths of 44 inches and higher, so if you get 44 inch wide fabric, just cut a 44 inch square and then you've got the extra you need for seams (assuming we do that) and attaching to something. I agree that keeping this parallel to the ground is important.

the corners could be made of rebar pairs welded together with the ends bent to form a V. at the playa pound in the rebar and use the cord to make a rectangle and then 3 columns. have people bring their pixels in 3 column sets. run the cords through the channels. no cords running across the columns. The V makes it easy for the volunteers to help get the height right. I can imagine saying to people "get the bottom of the V one foot off the ground. put the rope at the bottom of the V." We could either tie the rope to the rebar or have it knotted on the end and wire tie the rope to the rebar.

I'm having trouble visualizing what you mean by the above. Maybe it's just me. I haven't had my coffee yet.

having the picture down on the playa sounds like it would just get obliterated by the dust. I was thinking the rebar would hold it off the ground about a foot. the wind would hopefully shake off the dust. I think we'd reach an equilibrium of dust deposited and shaken off. if it's on the ground I think we'd would end up sweeping the thing.

If you saw the base of the man last year you'll know that height does not keep the image from being obliterated by dust. In the best of worlds we would keep this folded or rolled until the last minute and then put it out, but that would take too many people at one time and too much up front coordination.

if we saved the picture year to year then each year as more pixels come in then the picture grows. The picture is not timely ... it is timeless. I know that sounds awful to bring all that shit back to detroit but to destroy the work and accumulated material seems wrong considering 100% success the first year out is not likely. The rebar would have to be carried out anyway so the real add is the fabric. I would think the truck hauling stuff out will have more room to haul stuff back. No? It would seem like all the fabric could fit in a couple of basements.

I'm not doing this more than once. If someone wants to coordinate collecting all the pieces, washing them, sorting them, storing them, bringing them back, etc. That's fine with me. If this happens this year I am bringing home less than I came with.

I wonder if someone has some survey equipement so we could spot the locations for the bars. Doing all of this with a tape measure at ground level seems difficult to get right. I might have a connection but it would be a long shot. I'll try for it if no one else has some at their disposal and Sputnik thinks it is necessary to get a quality picture. I don't think we want it to look like a cubist rendition of the picture chosen.

We can do this very simply with one line marked at the right intervals and two other to form a right triangle. Just like squaring up a box. Easy peasy. Not that there would be anything wrong with this becoming a cubist rendition of the picture. That kind of happenstance would be cool.

I put out some leads to understand how sails are sized. I'll let you know if I find out something.[/quote]

[S1m3R]

Good point, but I'm not too worried about us exceeding any space requirements. It does mean that the image would stretch out in that direction and we should take that into account.

we missed each other on a couple of points- it's the cost of doing this in a forum which is fine since we all get to see the discussion. on this first point I was thinking about making do with less. you guys have determined the size of the pixels and i'm taking that assumption and making it a little coarser by adding 8 inches between the 3x3 blocks. this might stretch the available pixels.

3x3 would work, but I want to make them as large as possible since the satellite won't be working at the highest resolution.

the way I understand this (and the concept I'm trying to describe) the 3x3 pixel unit would mean nothing to the satellite and the picture. It is just a way to organze the work and to modularize the picture construction. As I said I am concerned that any one section break up and then the rest of that module becomes a mess. if we modularaize it into 3x3 units then it isn't so bad if one has a problem.

I'm having trouble visualizing what you mean by the above

I'll sketch it up when I get home tonight.

If you saw the base of the man last year you'll know that height does not keep the image from being obliterated by dust.

never been to the playa. do the tops of tents get as dirty as the bottom? I'm thinking that the shaking from the wind will help. maybe the dust is just too sticky. if so then this is just an open issue that we need to resolve. the rolling out at the last minute sounds impossible as you indicated.


is the ground more like packed talc or like sand?

when you are modeling this on top of your van I'd recommend not being so close to the roof. The best place would be to put it in front of the van or a few feet above and as far forward on it as possible.

some places of the van you will be in dead air. in others you will be catching an unrealistic updraft.

[Dork]

I can't help but think there must be some pneumatic solution out there for putting spikes in the ground. Maybe something for stapling new sod to hills or putting in fence posts or something.

Then there's the need to get the spikes out afterwards. I suppose those huge electromagnets would be a tad impractical...

Sorry, just having a "Big tool good!" moment.

If standard staples are not strong enough, what about hog rings? Might be hard to locate in small quantities but they're stronger and can be installed with plyers. If you do it on site you can get specialized plyers that will make quicker work of them.