Is Burning Man still dangerous?

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:31 pm

Mr Magoo wrote:
I think it's the LLC covering its legal back on advice of their lawyers
I believe that Diane was right.
Actually, it is more than that. One has to assume the LLC has insurance coverage. They have to. Everytime a claim or lawsuit is filed, the next year some underwriter will make sure that there is a defense there (ie "warning on your ticket") or they exclude coverage. The language regarding the art cars is a perfect example. You will recall that the family of the poor burner who was run over by the art car did file suit.
Its all about the money. Not your safety.

Not entirely the case -- in 1997 there was an effort to rein in art cars careening through the camp areas and along the Esplanade, and Larry & Harley made noises then and in 1998 about making BRC more of a "pedestrian" city -- as much for esthetic concerns as for safety. If the art car crowd then responded like utterly irresponsible assholes, and a lot of Nevada people kept trying to tool around in noisy, smoky ATVs, you can imagine the impetus for creating the DMV thing, independent of liability or agency concerns.

allanon2 · Post by **allanon2** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:19 pm

Chai Guy wrote:Is Burning Man still dangerous?

This is a question that was introduced in another thread, and it's something I've been thinking about lately. Maybe it's just my perception, but it seems to me that when I first started attending the prevailing sentiment was that you were responsible for your own survival and safety. Since that time (and in fact, even before I began attending) there has been a gradual increase in the institution of rules, regulations, and bureaucracy designed to protect us from not only each other, but from ourselves.

There was a time when I took the words "YOU VOLUNTARILY ASSUME THE RISK OF SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH BY ATTENDING." printed on the back of the ticket seriously, now I realize that it's just marketing hype.

What do you think?

peopel die every year. There is about a 1-10K to 1-20K chance to die if you attend the event.
Insurance companies say if the risk is over a 1-100K chance of ieing in a event then its dangerous.
\so yes BM is dangerous.

Desert Duck · Post by **Desert Duck** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:27 pm

People don't die every year. Your 1 in 10,000 would assume that 4 people die AT the event every year, and that's just not so. if you're going to make that claim, you'll need proof to back it up. Also, is that for one day events? Being that Bman is a 7 day event, then you'd need to figure each day by how many were there that day for a total of attendee days. It's somewhere over 100,000. Therefore, Bman is not dangerous.

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:02 pm

allanon2 wrote:

peopel die every year. There is about a 1-10K to 1-20K chance to die if you attend the event.
Insurance companies say if the risk is over a 1-100K chance of ieing in a event then its dangerous.
\so yes BM is dangerous.

Fuck, He's Back. Who Invited him anyway??

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:11 pm

In at least a couple socks.

Lessee... odds last year were... 1.0004386 in 35K?

And what are the odds of anyone in a "normal" town of 35K dying in a week?

Lessee... that's 245K persons/days, as I remember... so you take a town like, say San Francisco which is approx. 850K. Take the SF chron obits, divide by 3.5 I think the odds of dying in a normal town are about 10 times, then, what it is in BRC.

The point being - you're 5 times MORE likely to die if you DON'T go to BRC that week.

So... Allanon (or whichever sock you're using), since you don't want to go to Burning man... Hmmm...

Well, you can figure at least *that* out.

BTW - if a buncha people (OK, CHP officers I asked randomly today) with a quarter century+ working around vehicles (and IDing them, AND being trained observers) can't tell what a car is by a right rear angular semi-quarterpanel shot, how can an anti-BRC not only get the make, but the model, AND year well enough to pull a picture showroom shot of the same side of the same make, model, AND year car? Interesting...

Of course you ID'd yourself to the car owner and told them you were taking that picture, did you not? Hmmm...

bb

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:34 am

Bob wrote:... Larry & Harley made noises then and in 1998 about making BRC more of a "pedestrian" city...

It's in danger of succeeding.

allanon2 · Post by **allanon2** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:13 pm

Desert Duck wrote:People don't die every year. Your 1 in 10,000 would assume that 4 people die AT the event every year, and that's just not so. if you're going to make that claim, you'll need proof to back it up. Also, is that for one day events? Being that Bman is a 7 day event, then you'd need to figure each day by how many were there that day for a total of attendee days. It's somewhere over 100,000. Therefore, Bman is not dangerous.

they die at the hospital, or in car wrecks.

and your peopel dieing every day in big cities. well thats right , but remeber that includes peopel that are already sick, elderly, and newborns.
None of those people count in this data collection.

and proof? read the police records and such each year. it has averaged about 1 per 10K of the people that attend the event.
But no one supposibly ever dies at the event, as they get carried away in a ambulance, hit by cars comign to or away from the evnt, or crash in a plane outside the 1 mile event boundery.

yet again people argue without beleiving data that is given.
For the true beleivers, you want me to give the names, death date, and how each person died.

read the reno Gazzete tey had a article about this 1-2 years ago.

sigh
allanon

falk · Post by **falk** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:31 pm

Christ all-fucking-mighty, is it too much to ask you to at least get a spell-checker? It's hard enough following your fallacious logic without having my eyes hurt as well as my brain.

Desert Duck · Post by **Desert Duck** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:48 pm

No shit. You're an effing retard. "lurn tu speil" . If you're so positive these deaths are as a direct result of the event, why don't you provide us with a link? The burden of proof is on you, so if you have this evidence, you'd best show it.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:49 pm

Hmmm...
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Interesting...

allanon2 · Post by **allanon2** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:36 am

Desert Duck wrote:No shit. You're an effing retard. "lurn tu speil" . If you're so positive these deaths are as a direct result of the event, why don't you provide us with a link? The burden of proof is on you, so if you have this evidence, you'd best show it.

2 deaths i think froma palne accident
one from a art car
i think 1 or 2 leavign the event. head on collision
and i think one more goign to the event.

lets see what si that? 4-5 deaths. hummm

now doing a search for death and burningman on internet gets you thousands of links becuase everyone qoutes the tickets. but every year their are head on collisons from very tired people or peopel high and they die or get seriosuly injured.

but of course you wont beleive me cause i did get links.
can't anyone except some truth?

last year i think you had no deaths from plane accidents?
i do know of one or two car accidents thou that cuased deaths. (lins hard to find as they aree not categorized by burnign man) talk to the police I do every year. BLM also comes by and chats often. the stories they tell of dehdration are incredible. i am amzed that there aren't many deaths from that issue alone.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:19 am

Nwo I ma rlelay cnofnuesd.

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:20 am

I asked Larry Harvey if Burning Man was still dangerous. You can listen to his answer here:

http://nospectators.com/index.php?page=burncast

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:28 am

Chai Guy wrote:I asked Larry Harvey if Burning Man was still dangerous. You can listen to his answer here:

http://nospectators.com/index.php?page=burncast

Um... pardon me... but...

Why did this link just reboot my computer?

bb

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:38 am

So easy even a caveman can do it:
http://afterburn.burningman.com/01/rangers/safety.html

In 2001, there were three deaths associated with the event. The first fatality was a DPW volunteer who died in a motor vehicle accident on the highway a few days before the event. The second was a participant who chose to run into a fire. The third involved a motor vehicle accident on Highway 447 that occurred during Sunday night departure. The Nevada Highway Patrol briefly closed the Black Rock City exit road during their investigation. The loss of these lives is a tragedy and this community mourns their passing.

Death 1: on the highway, might just as easily be on the way to Disneyland.
Death 2: an apparent suicide.
Death 3: again on the civilized thoroghfares of our fine land.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:47 am

I recall visiting a Hare Krishna temple one evening long ago. It was just after the Hindu festival of Rath Yatra, from which the term "Juggernaut" arises.

At the traditional Rath Yatra festival, the large wheeled vehicle of lord Jagannāth is towed through town. It was common for devotees to throw themselves under the wheels of the Jagannāth carriage, to be crushed as a willing sacrifice.

Now the modern Hare Krishna rendition of this is considerably toned down, but on the evening I visited, the Krishna devotees were mourning the loss of one of their own, who was run over by a car while on a skateboard. Now, Krishna devotees don't usually own or use skateboards, and it seemed oddly suspicious that the devotee went "to Krishna" in this manner during Rath Yatra.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat May 06, 2006 9:46 am

Desert Duck · Post by **Desert Duck** » Wed May 10, 2006 1:38 am

I'm just wondering if this counts as dangerous. I'm the faceless furry gut in the background, my co-designer is the guy on the right. The guy on the left is a good friend. I think danger anymore is reserved for the volunteers and the very stupid or unlucky.

Burningman is an experiment in intentional community as well as radical self-reliance and self-expression. As these tenets take hold, one will give way to another as they cross boundaries. Which holds sway depends on who's in charge at that particular moment (if anyone is, otherwise it's a crap shoot).

So the truth is that Burningman is both more and less dangerous. It is less dangerous for those who are intent on radical inclusion, self-reliance, self-expression... and more dangerous for those who are easily lulled into a false sense of security.

Here's my contribution to dangerous art.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:37 pm

well?
it seems no one is addressing this pressing question.
I'm sure, it'd be helpful for new folks............
to dispel the rumors of;

gratuitous, wanton sex
illicit drugs
nudity

cheese grater slides,
playa melting home brewers
naked, fat hairy people

dust (and the dangers of breathing same)
mud (if you spill water on said dust)
silk head wear and a ball gag (in case you stumble into the wrong** camp)

**depends on POV

Elorrum · Post by **Elorrum** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:55 pm

dispel rumors? It's not dangerous?

(the following is not a typical occurence)

I'm going to take this opportunity to write about something recent, and kind of raw.

Stupid people do stupid things and get hurt. Stupidity is a dangerous state no matter where you are. But the playa may be an especially dangerous place to be stupid. A person may be stupid all the time... that person should not go, or should have watchers. A person may be temporarily stupid, in which case they could be in danger. They assume the risk of their condition. Don't stop thinking about: "Is that sharp?" "Will it hold my weight?" "Am I drinkng enough water?" "Is my balance good enough to do this?" "Can someone traveling at night, perhaps in a vehicle, in a direction that might mean a collision with me, see me?" "Will that be too much?" If you are unable to consider the answers to these questions, you may get hurt.

I learned something I didn't know at the Regional I went to this weekend. Somebody who is taking GHB and decides to lie down on the ground and sleep, is very likely not o.k. even if they say they are. I don't take drugs, never heard of this shit, and this is a guy I pass on the path, after hearing his speed ramble about a half hour earlier, where he mentioned how high he was, and on what. I ask, "are you o.k.?" "yes." "really? You're o.k.?" "Yeah, I'm o.k." I keep going. I'm not there to tripsit. Half an hour later, sirens, fire trucks, paramedics. I say to the person standing next to me, "I've got a bad feeling about this." Turns out it was that guy. I hope he survived. I talked to another guy and we both wondered what we could have done. We had both seen this fellow, were we supposed to be participants in group safety and do something more? Called the paramedics earlier is all I can think of. I've seen too much too fast before, but things are different now and I didn't have the knowledge.

I get home, I read about this drug. FUCK! Fucking idiot. Yes it's dangerous. If you are a fucking moron and drink something like floor finish stripper, it's fucking dangerous.

and it's a total rumor that naked fat hairy people are dangerous.

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:44 pm

I got nothing to add to the above post... Yep I got nothing....

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:27 am

wonder how bbs is?

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:22 am

As long there are stupid people, Burning Man will still be fun.

pinemom · Post by **pinemom** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:04 am

yeah, I was stupid enough in 08' to think I had enough energy to be on playa for 3 weeks building big art and then running a full time theme camp.
Yup hurt myself.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:20 am

Pace yourself, young lady.

klondike_bar · Post by **klondike_bar** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:50 am

yes, the playa is dangerous. theres dust, drugs, fire, and art that defies common safety logic.

however, this doesnt mean that you will get hurt. many injuries are avoidable by drinking water, kowing your physical limits, and keeping a safe distance from the astroturf slide.

Sail Man · Post by **Sail Man** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:18 pm

goathead wrote:wonder how bbs is?

I wonder if it's Welsh

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:39 pm

Probably tastes a little like BBQ.

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:29 am

with a little sauce she might taste like BBQ.

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:31 am

if we sauced a Kiwi, would she be good to eat?

hmmmmm?????

maybe a little mango, chitpolie?
could be tasty

Is Burning Man still dangerous?

people die every year.

Re: people die every year.

now fo course they don't die at the event according to BMORG

ok lets do 2003