Stopburningman.org: This be a hoot!

tregocamper · Post by **tregocamper** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:56 am

spectabillis wrote:aw fucking damnit!

very sorry trego, after stepping off a few days i have not got back to being used to the switching of buttons. this is the *third freakin time* i have done that so i think i am going to get emily to disable that ability for me. the edit button is in the place of your quote button, so when i think i am quoting... its editing your post. my reply was that observer sorta went off in a huff and i dont know if he is reading things here.

it was nothing intentional.

lol... right on, that's cool... I'm just happy that I hadn't encountered a new low in moderator tactics!

I guess I'll go rebuild my post now.

tregocamper · Post by **tregocamper** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:04 am

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:They are, if you'll pardon the scientific analysis... proving themselves to be highly esteemed f***ing idiots. In my humble opinion, of course. Especially with their concocted "evidence" and stating false statements as fact. Like the "man" painted on a window of a car that looks suspiciously like... a... Neon? And the airplane at the springs being "burners". Um Hmmm...

The funny part is that so-called "legal notice", upper left corner.

OH... WAIT a minute. I get it. Silly me. It's an attempt at HUMOR. HA HA HA ha ha ha ha ha ha...

What I posted before was basically this:

Here's a pic of a 1st generation Neon:
http://tinyurl.com/k6rhs
and here's a 2nd generation Neon:
http://tinyurl.com/zardu

That car that showed up to Trego was a Chevy Malibu:
http://tinyurl.com/gejpo <-- example Malibu
http://www.stopburningman.org/images/visitor_mod.jpg
Note the rear side windows on these cars... it was not a Neon. Not that it matters, as only a couple of us still have Neons, but you get the point. Nevermind the fact that we have several pics of other odd vehicles that are clearly from Burning Man... you just picked the most 'normal' one to pin on us. We didn't even post the pics we took in '05 of Black Rock Rangers swimming in the hot springs, with their brand spankin' new Ford F150.

So, I ask you this: Which of these scenarios is more far-fetched?
1) Burners travelling a few miles to take a dip in the hot spring at Trego
2) Our group dressing up like burners and painting our car with The Man so we can wrongfully accuse burners of swimming in the hot spring

I feel that the level to which it is "wrong" for burners to swim in the hot spring is subject to debate, but the truth is that it DOES happen, and it has happened every single year I've been out there (since 1999). Granted, there have been fewer and fewer people blatantly disregarding these rules set by BLM in recent years, but it does still happen.

My personal reason for getting back on here is that I CAN'T STAND IT when people deny the existence of fact, and just attribute our photos to some kind of conspiracy theory. People refuse to believe that 30,000+ people who go to the desert with the sole intention of doing whatever the hell they want to would ever venture outside the fence to dip in the hot spring. Honestly, to the credit of Burning Man, I'm surprised that more people don't do it!

As I posted in the message that spectabillis accidentally deleted, I liked this recent comment by "Observer", and I think it fits here:

Observer wrote:"You are free to refuse to accept reality, but you can't make it go away. At most, you can help make a solidly good case that the
Stopburningman.org people were onto something when they said that "the ePlayans are about as reasonable as a herd of deranged
antelope". If, on being confronted with the facts, the regulars refuse to see them, allowing politics to trump observable fact, then Rex and Ed
were right and I'd have to say that I regretted ever defending this event."

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:09 am

So do you have any objections to BM participants using Trego AFTER the event say on Monday or Tuesday?

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:02 am

removing it all as I'm tired of banging my head against a wall.

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:38 am

What about folks who don't attend the event yet still make it out to the playa on Labor Day Weekend? What if they use the hot springs?

There's lots of non-burners who head out to Black Rock desert to do whatever the hell they want all during the year. Burning Man ticket holders don't have a monopoly on the use of the playa!

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:19 am

AntiM, psst. Logic won't work here. Addled brains are the devils playground.

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:34 am

Ahhhh. I suppose I'll have to fall back on snarky.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:41 pm

I'm just happy that I hadn't encountered a new low in moderator tactics!

As compared to what? A new low in manufacturing facts or truths?

obscurotron · Post by **obscurotron** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:55 pm

Badger wrote:
I'm just happy that I hadn't encountered a new low in moderator tactics!
As compared to what? A new low in manufacturing facts or truths?

At least someone is finally getting the clue:

--- [email protected] wrote:

> Rex
>
> I apologize for the delay in responding your email
> message about the need
> for studies of the playa surface. The reason for
> the delay was that I was
> involved in negotiations for a three year study of
> the impacts of all
> human and recreational use on the physical and
> biological characteristics
> of the entire playa surface. I wanted to make sure
> that the project was
> funded and the agreements were in place before
> responding to you, just to
> make sure that I was providing correct information
> and that some
> unforeseen problems did not kill the project.
>
> I am happy to report that we have entered into an
> agreement with the
> Desert Research Institute (DRI) for a three year
> study of the physical and
> biological processes associated with the playa
> surface and how
> recreational uses affect those processes. DRI has
> two scientists with
> personal interests in the Black Rock area and the
> appropriate expertise.
> Field and lab studies will begin this spring.
> _______________________________________________
> Roger Farschon
> Ecologist
> Black Rock Desert-High Rock Canyon Emigrant Trails
> NCA
> (530) 279-2707
> _______________________________________________

allanon2 · Post by **allanon2** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:59 pm

obscurotron wrote:
Badger wrote:
I'm just happy that I hadn't encountered a new low in moderator tactics!
As compared to what? A new low in manufacturing facts or truths?
At least someone is finally getting the clue:

--- [email protected] wrote:

> Rex
>
> I apologize for the delay in responding your email
> message about the need
> for studies of the playa surface. The reason for
> the delay was that I was
> involved in negotiations for a three year study of
> the impacts of all
> human and recreational use on the physical and
> biological characteristics
> of the entire playa surface. I wanted to make sure
> that the project was
> funded and the agreements were in place before
> responding to you, just to
> make sure that I was providing correct information
> and that some
> unforeseen problems did not kill the project.
>
> I am happy to report that we have entered into an
> agreement with the
> Desert Research Institute (DRI) for a three year
> study of the physical and
> biological processes associated with the playa
> surface and how
> recreational uses affect those processes. DRI has
> two scientists with
> personal interests in the Black Rock area and the
> appropriate expertise.
> Field and lab studies will begin this spring.
> _______________________________________________
> Roger Farschon
> Ecologist
> Black Rock Desert-High Rock Canyon Emigrant Trails
> NCA
> (530) 279-2707
> _______________________________________________

so it seems that Roger Farschon seems to agree what I have said for years about the cuase of the playa serpents on the lake bed and is gettign a study done.
They have even added those issues in there current permit.

ttyl
rex

Sensei · Post by **Sensei** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:29 pm

allanon2 wrote:so it seems that Roger Farschon seems to agree what I have said for years about the cuase of the playa serpents on the lake bed and is gettign a study done.

You're making it sound like he's reached a conclusion before he's even started his study. Pardon my scientific ignorance here, but if ol' Rog already agrees with you on the "cuase" of the playa serpents, then why is he bothering to study them? Isn't that pretty much the definition of 'poor science'?

Maybe you're seeing something I'm not.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:41 pm

http://www.trails.com/tcatalog_trail.as ... HGS271-005

Trego Hot Springs
Gerlach Nevada Hot Spring Trails
Preview: About 4 hours from Reno, Trego Hot Spring consists of a small, shallow, silty, warm-source pond that flows into a ditch and subsequently cools. The spring lies on the edge of the Black Rock Desert Playa, adjacent to the Western Pacific Railroad. Visiting this spring makes for an excellent camping trip, and can be linked to other trips.

That's where the Barney Memorial Drive-By Shooting Range was located. Shoot-n-Soak!

The actual spring is quite hot but because it flows into a very silty/muddy trough, anywhere from 2 to 6 feet deep (changing from year to year) you can find a comfortable temperature for just about anyone. I've seen locals and their kids, a skinny dipping BLM ranger, burningman flunkies, etc. Most everyone is friendly but the locals may not be too happy if you're nude, though they ususally stay at the opposite end of the trough if they think you're nude. There is a nice wide pool at one end (the warm end) that will accomodate about 15 or so comfortably. Give yourself of your friends a nice mud facial, very relaxing and if you're nude don't forget to flash the train engineers when the trains rumble past only about 30 yards from the pool (they expect it and will toot their horns from quite a ways away to let you know they're coming). You can get to it either across the playa from Gerlach (drive up the east side of the playa looking for train crossings, the one by a tall metal pylon takes you to the spring) or the dirt roads to the east of the playa, a route I'm not familiar with. If you're coming off the playa be very careful crossing the tracks, the trains can't stop for you and you might not hear them them coming if you're stereo is blasting.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:45 pm

Most easily accessable, and easy to spot. Trego is a siding on the railroad that runs east-west on the south edge of the desert. There is a grade crossing at Trego, and the BLM usually bothers to mark the path from the playa to the grade crossing. Trego is also easy to spot because the Union Pacific has a microwave relay tower near the siding.

...never mind...

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:12 pm

Maybe you're seeing something I'm not.

No doubt ALLA-ASS 'instructs' his young charges using the same wreckless methodlogy at whatever fucking 'school' he claims to be employed by.

Be afraid America. Be terribly afraid.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:57 pm

I'm sorry, but I thought we were trying to let this thread die??

bb

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:08 pm

too funny to croak.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:06 pm

allanon2 · Post by **allanon2** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:05 pm

Sensei wrote:
allanon2 wrote:so it seems that Roger Farschon seems to agree what I have said for years about the cuase of the playa serpents on the lake bed and is gettign a study done.
You're making it sound like he's reached a conclusion before he's even started his study. Pardon my scientific ignorance here, but if ol' Rog already agrees with you on the "cuase" of the playa serpents, then why is he bothering to study them? Isn't that pretty much the definition of 'poor science'?

Maybe you're seeing something I'm not.

he is hiring a indpenedent third partry to study a few items about the lake bed. The source of the playa serpents is one of the items they are studinying.
why spend money if there is not truth behidn it? why put it in the 5 year permit that BMORG is causing them if thye don't beleive there data. BLM is just gathering real proof that if it comes true can make the permit get puleld after the study comes out.

ttyl
rex

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:55 pm

Holy shellshock, either Rex got a spell checker or something miraculous happened. He spelled playa correctly! Amazing!

As for any research that's done it won't matter in the end as the allmighty dollar is the arbitrator of just how far the environmentalists can go with the BLM. Do you think the BLM is going to sacrifice a cash cow over a few piles of lakebed dust? No I don't think so. In fact I think that's one of the reasons the BLM is proposing the 5 year permit. It's 5 years of guaranteed revenue! It's all about the money. Always has been. Always will be.

And what about my Trego question? Will it ever get answered?

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:13 pm

Probably not...

I know they keep an eye on it for the following 2 weeks, but I don't think there's a specific interdiction against it after the event closes.

What scares the environs is the idea that post event the springs will get trashed. Hmmm... like they don't any other time of the year?

OK, they want to limit access to keep the impact to a minimum. Doesn't mean don't use it, and in fact if there was nothing *but* responsible use post-event by burners, it would shoot this whole shitty argument in the foot.

As to Rex's spell checker - there's NO excuse for blatant misspellings that a 4th grader wouldn't make (all the missed caps, "studinying", "beleive there data", "get puleld"...) or NOT proofing your shit before you send. You get the idea. If it were so important to him you'd think he'd at least write intelligently... or is that asking WAY too much??

later...
bb

allanon2 · Post by **allanon2** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:35 pm

Kinetic IV wrote:Holy shellshock, either Rex got a spell checker or something miraculous happened. He spelled playa correctly! Amazing!

As for any research that's done it won't matter in the end as the allmighty dollar is the arbitrator of just how far the environmentalists can go with the BLM. Do you think the BLM is going to sacrifice a cash cow over a few piles of lakebed dust? No I don't think so. In fact I think that's one of the reasons the BLM is proposing the 5 year permit. It's 5 years of guaranteed revenue! It's all about the money. Always has been. Always will be.

And what about my Trego question? Will it ever get answered?

remind me about your trego question?

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:49 pm

My Trego Question, reposted as requested:

So do you have any objections to BM participants using Trego AFTER the event say on Monday or Tuesday?

I ask this because I visited Trego on my way out from the event and it gave me a new appreciation for the hot springs and a different perspective on Nevada than I had before. I understand the need to protect resources from overuse....but I'm also supportive of keeping those resources open and accessible so that others can enjoy the simple pleasure of an enjoyable soak in those springs....at least relatively safe ones like Trego. I'm curious how you feel about that.

And I'm looking for an unvarnished answer...and I won't rip into any reply you make regardless of it's position, spelling, etc. I honestly want to know.

grand wizard hornsby · Post by **grand wizard hornsby** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:38 pm

chu bao pai

allanon2 · Post by **allanon2** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:08 pm

Kinetic IV wrote:My Trego Question, reposted as requested:

So do you have any objections to BM participants using Trego AFTER the event say on Monday or Tuesday?
I ask this because I visited Trego on my way out from the event and it gave me a new appreciation for the hot springs and a different perspective on Nevada than I had before. I understand the need to protect resources from overuse....but I'm also supportive of keeping those resources open and accessible so that others can enjoy the simple pleasure of an enjoyable soak in those springs....at least relatively safe ones like Trego. I'm curious how you feel about that.

And I'm looking for an unvarnished answer...and I won't rip into any reply you make regardless of it's position, spelling, etc. I honestly want to know.

if 1,000 people decdied to visit frog pond or trego on mondya after the evnt then it owuld be the evnt that caused the damage.
if its just a few people then it would be the normal use of the hotspring liek anytime of the year and this has been proved to not do much to the hotspring as that type of activity has been done to them for many many years.

so in short it depends on how many people. Most people after the event just go home and are not true desert people that go the blackrock desert for relaxation, quiet, and to enjoy the wonderplace that the blackrock desert is. They just go to go to the event no matter where it is located.
when it was decided to put the evnt at the blackrock desert (yes i was part of that deicsion with cacophony society way back when) John law picked the desert becuae it was neat and in a place we would not get hassled.

ttyl
rex

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:50 pm

Thank you Rex. I appreciate the reply.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:25 am

allanon2 wrote:
if 1,000 people decdied to visit frog pond or trego on mondya after the evnt then it owuld be the evnt that caused the damage.
if its just a few people then it would be the normal use of the hotspring like anytime of the year and this has been proved to not do much to the hotspring as that type of activity has been done to them for many many years.

so in short it depends on how many people. Most people after the event just go home and are not true desert people that go the blackrock desert for relaxation, quiet, and to enjoy the wonderplace that the blackrock desert is...

Makes a lot of sense... Thanks for an unusually incedibly insightful answer, Rex...

The only question is, and maybe it's a twofold question...

One - How do we allow the people to use frogpond or somesuch other spring without totally fracking up the ecosystem, and without denying them the chance to develop an "oneness" with the desert that comes from realizing there are *other* awesome thngs in the desert than Burning Man, and on a related note...

Two - how do we turn people who are showing up for Burning Man to have a greater appreciation for the environment in which it's held, to where it's not just the event they're going to the desert for? In essence, to make the Black Rock and Smoke Creek deserts destinations for their own right, and not for the once-a-year event?

It's amazing in a way. I had wanted to get back into camping in the high desert for quite a while, but didn't have the "excuse" to do so. Burning Man was what gave me the excuse to reclaim that wonder. Not that I don't like Burning Man, n fact, I quite like it... but it's not the only reason I go to the Black Rock desert.

bb

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:28 am

It's a conservation quandry. I was reading the latest issue of Bay Nature yesterday and they talked about it too. People will pay to conserve land, but then they want to see it. The things I've found so irritating about BBR and the bmorgstoppers is this sort of "i've got my relationship to the black rock desert, no one else can have one." And their complete lack of awareness of the irony about that. If they started regarding us as fellow stakeholders instead of undeserving masses, we might have progress. But if all the rest of us are for is to bank roll thier pleasures--well they can bank roll mine, too!

TheJudge · Post by **TheJudge** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:52 am

Not to sound like too much of an anti-environmentalist asshole, (I'm an asshole, but I respenct the environment) but we're talking about Frog Pond, right? The place that was created by a backhoe and a metal pipe shoved into the ground where water naturally escapes from below the surface? Environmentally speaking, the pond shouldnt exist in the first place. if the spring were untouched by human hands, the area would be a wetland and nothing more.

Same with Trego, which was made mechanicaly for use of the livestock as settlers migrated through the area in the 1800's.

I dont see a big problem with people using the spring. Provided that folks clean up after themselves, what's the issue?

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:16 pm

I didn't know the name of Trego Springs until I saw this thread. Now I know how to find it.

Stopburningman.org: This be a hoot!

so badger would you say roger Falshio is also a sock? BLM

Re: so badger would you say roger Falshio is also a sock? BL

Re: so badger would you say roger Falshio is also a sock? BL

what was your trego question again?

depends on how many people kinetic

Re: depends on how many people kinetic