BLM proposing raising fees - your help needed

TheJudge · Post by **TheJudge** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:41 am

I wasnt aware that RIOTS occured during the event.

The article makes BRC sound like East LA.

ronjon · Post by **ronjon** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:45 am

You forget the ice riots of 2000? Or the Earth Guardian uprising of '98?

Zulegoona · Post by **Zulegoona** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:47 am

I think maybe they were referring to Critical Tits, it’s kind of like a riot and I’m sure all the LEOs think they have to cover it.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:10 am

Did the org try to compare the cost of hiring the Pinkertons?
http://www.securitasgroup.com/

And if you think Pershing County is harsh and the reservation should be a cool place for hippies, just consider the tribal police.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:43 pm

Bob wrote:And if you think Pershing County is harsh and the reservation should be a cool place for hippies, just consider the tribal police.

depends on the tribe, i scored some of the most powerful shrooms off one once. of course if people are hungup on being argumentitive or self-rightous whities you can pretty much bet you are going to get fucked with. as far as fees, govt hands in the pockets and such... i have to say dealing with the res could have a lot less fucking red-tape and beaurocratic oiling of their machine.

Sudden Disruption · Post by **Sudden Disruption** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:12 pm

Sometimes the world needs it's news in small bites...

The following is only personal opinion.

http://suddendisruption.blogspot.com/

So please don't forward it to BLM as it would probably NOT help our cause.

But if you think it just MIGHT mobilize others to email BLM, feel free to "Digg" it under "Links" or post to other sites as you like.

Then get YOUR "nice" email off to the BLM.

See ya on the playa.

Sudden Distruption

ravenluv · Post by **ravenluv** » Mon May 01, 2006 6:33 pm

money....it's a gas....

so...has anyone mentioned that maybe the official peeps just need more gas money? have you noticed how much more you spent on gas this year? and have you been watching general prices lately? we all need more, or maybe just want it. but what's the difference anyway? we're not the only ones worried about our futures. but we're supposed to be doing this because we love it whereas they're doing it for the money.

it seems the thing we hate most is being told that we gotta give more. but would we have volunteered to give it to them?

the sales tax in virginia is 11%. as far as i can see, the "tax" blm has been paying has been less than that. this is america. freedom doesn't come for free. have you calculated the tax the indians paid for the freedom to live on reservations?

perspective, eh?

but back to gas....i spent way more on gas for bm last year than on the ticket. it only promises to get worse. so i gotta pay $10, $15, $20 more on a ticket? big deal! (and i'm way poorer than the vast lot of those who attend)

as for the expanded police powers.....i am concerned about that. what is "good cause"? is there a legal definition for it? who has the money to find out whether the definition holds up in court after they've been evicted? i don't! won't that be fun, laying down hundreds or thousands of dollars to hang out somewhere that leo can throw you out of without you having any idea of how to avoid it? what problem are they trying to clear up with that power?

hell, maybe they have a legimate concern and precedent to boot. as a casual observer - as a great many burners are - i've heard precious little about that aspect of the stipulations. most of the focus in the debates i've seen so far seems to be about the money.

what the fu...

oh well, if i can save a few bucks and expand police powers in my community at the same time, what's not to love? and if i gotta spend an extra $10 to keep the powers that be happy so i can go to my happy place, i guess i outta be offended. yeah, right.

now, if i gotta pay more AND police powers are expanded....well, who in their right mind would want that?

half-full and half-empty : the assessment

hunter S · Post by **hunter S** » Mon May 01, 2006 7:49 pm

Ravenluv, I guess I fall to the half empty glass in your assessment but......I sharply disagree! first, fuel costs are not the issue to the tune of an additional $200K. The point is the llc. permit/agreement with BLM already assess per person cost for Leo's, if the BLM wants to contract more law enforcement or Pershing Co. wants more presence than they need to work with what they the $700+k that they already get! If BLM could or the county sheriff could justify an increase in crime/ arrests/ public safety/gang violence/riots and show how more $$ are necessary! I might agree. Look at the graph's, increase in Leo's over the past years & com pair the amount of arrests? 17 in 05 hum? if if the local sheriff in your area had these numbers, you can bet re election might be a problem not to mention his asking for a tax increase on the same ballot!
Second, "freedom doesnt come free" your right it's born of ideas & the voice of the people, our willingness to stand up and shake our collective fist and demand a fair deal!
On a bright note, at least you seem to see the expanded powers of the Leo's as a problem. Yea me too, I just get a little peeved at the idea of treading on personal civil rights.

I don't know I'm just funny that way!

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Mon May 01, 2006 10:55 pm

Most of you know the BLM
requires $4 per person per day for the use of the federally owned land.
For the past several years this method has yielded over $700,000
annually for the BLM.
Since 1998 BLM law enforcement has taken an increasingly larger piece
of the pie. In 2005 over $500,000 went to law enforcement related
costs. From 1998 to 2004 the cost of law enforcement astronomically
increased 616%. In stark contrast population growth in Black Rock City
during this period has only been slight, and has even tapered off in
the last couple of years. What's more startling is the fact that the
already low incidence of crime in Black Rock City has not significantly
increased, and has in fact dropped in some of those years.

ronjon · Post by **ronjon** » Mon May 01, 2006 11:15 pm

A statistical analysis of BM crime statistics (granted, the last time I did this was post-'2003) was that most crimes had dropped dramatically. The only increase was in minor drug infractions, which skyrocketed with the increase in enforcement of those crimes. Those were citations. If someone had the bandwidth to track citations with convictions, it might make for some interesting powerpoint presentation at the next Cooperators Meeting

ravenluv · Post by **ravenluv** » Tue May 02, 2006 8:13 am

lest i be misunderstoond, i don't favor giving the leo's more money so they can expand their current operations. at the same time, i still don't see nearly as much discussion about the 'power to evict with good cause' proposal as i do about the money.

i am not a west coast resident and have spent nearly all my time in the mid-west and on the east coast. this might explain why i consider it to be somewhat amazing that bm is still going on at all. i have encountered extremely few places in this nation (less than .01 %, i am sure) in which people are allowed to just be themselves in such a way. think about it: even in the mainstream - sporting events, big-money concerts and just about everywhere that people gather - people are tightly controlled. if they want to get drunk, they gotta pay for the privilege (to the tune of $5 or more for little cups of beer, plus tickets, etc..) and if you think the leo presence at bm is bad....

now, on a small scale, much is happening that offers freedom - IF you happen to know about it. but as for large scale stuff.....this bm thing is very rare, especially considering the utter lack of corporate sponsorship, advertising and ties to big money (as is the case with many music festivals).

but that's just my observation, and i'll be the first to admit that i may be quite wrong. even so, i saw this coming and i'd never heard a word about it before two days ago. i'm not a doomsayer, i just pay attention to what is happening in the world at large. i see in this situation the same as i've ever seen; people seizing upon an opportunity to get a bigger piece of the pie (or otherwise protect what they have - do not discount fuel costs, it also impacts individual paychecks).

the government can spy on us at will. they are developing more and more ways to get our dna on file. they have invaded another nation and are acting like they might do it again. war is talked about constantly in oe ne context or another. the population in general is on edge due to higher gas prices, higher prices in general, unrestrained illegal immigration, cutbacks in jobs everywhere you look, the rapid advancement of technology and social trends that no one really knows what will bring, and so forth. you can take your case to burners and maybe get them to say "this ain't right", but you're living in a vacuum if you think that's all that matters. the vast majority of people i know who aren't absolutely smitten with bm (and also have nothing against it) would have no real sympathy for complaints about having to spend a little extra dough to keep the officials happy. on the other hand, they might agree that expanded police powers in the context of no demonstrable problem are indeed unamerican.

one other point: if bm finds another location, the so-called 'gravy train' being enjoyed by the blm and the leos will vanish. maybe that would hurt them. if so, then wouldn't it hurt them all the more if they got used to even more money?

i'd love it if the world weren't full of mostly exclusively self-interested and even downright greedy souls. but it is. that higher values could emerge from that is inspiring. but if you believe that history and the stories of today's current events should be heeded at all, you might see that such higher values have emerged IN SPITE OF the general tendencies of humanity.

finally, i just don't see how we can go around talking credibly about the importance of gifting and looking beyond monetary valuations on the one hand and then make paying a bit more the central issue in this debate. the central issue should be the new powers the police want and their aggressiveness in criminalizing participants.

it's just my opinion, of course. and that, i am well aware, is not an impressive thing.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue May 02, 2006 8:36 am

I hope this gives them the courage to raise usage fees for grazing and mining.

Oh, and timber cutting.

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Tue May 02, 2006 9:19 am

Ravenluv wrote:power to evict with good cause

Just as important if not more so but the thread was about fees?
Maybe new thread needed?
The power to evict with good cause is real bullshit a form of intimidation who is going to argue or even politely disagree with a LEO that can just kick your ass out for any reason the LEO determines is good cause...

This whole country is going to a fascist/socialist state did you know homeland security has hired your garbage man to check thru your trash and keep a eye on your house and report anything they feel is suspicious to Law enforcement?
Same with your friendly mailperson etc.
This is a active program that most people are not aware of!
want to test it? leave a empty bag of Ammonium nitrate fertilizer on top of your trash can...

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Tue May 02, 2006 9:25 am

theCryptofishist wrote:I hope this gives them the courage to raise usage fees for grazing and mining.

Oh, and timber cutting.

Never happen those good Ole' boy's are too connected. Why does BLM round up the wild horses? because of the minor impact of horse's grazing on land that environmentally destructive cows use! They talk about protecting land resources but BLM protects the connected ranchers/timber/corp.miners even more so

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Tue May 02, 2006 11:12 am

The more the LLC tries to cooperate with LEO, the more they will be co-opted. This will result in increasing taxes on the citizens of BRC, decreasing spontanaity and a lot more causual observation rather then active participation.

So the LLC should postpone for a year. Then all the funds dry up and the BLM and other LEO agencies will no longer view the BM event as the cash cow it has become for them. When permit negotiations begin next year it will truly be an "arms length" negotiations, instead of the silent gang rape it has become.

But the LLC won't cancel, because they have become hostage to what they have created. It would mean having to find another means of support for themselves, and the well just isn't that deep, so they are locked into feeble pleas for more money, so they too can milk the cash cow.

The cow feeds on your energy.

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Tue May 02, 2006 12:21 pm

blyslv wrote:The more the LLC tries to cooperate with LEO, the more they will be co-opted. This will result in increasing taxes on the citizens of BRC, decreasing spontanaity and a lot more causual observation rather then active participation.

So the LLC should postpone for a year. Then all the funds dry up and the BLM and other LEO agencies will no longer view the BM event as the cash cow it has become for them. When permit negotiations begin next year it will truly be an "arms length" negotiations, instead of the silent gang rape it has become.

But the LLC won't cancel, because they have become hostage to what they have created. It would mean having to find another means of support for themselves, and the well just isn't that deep, so they are locked into feeble pleas for more money, so they too can milk the cash cow.

The cow feeds on your energy.

Or play the Indian card! I would much rather deal with Tribal LEO and the could use the money...

ThePikey · Post by **ThePikey** » Tue May 02, 2006 5:03 pm

Yeah for that matter, the Pyramid Lake community probably *could* make better use of the cash than the Feds.

I will agree though, that Tribal police tend not to mess around, and this is kind of a concern. But they're also probably less invasive than our current batch of LEOs. If so, that's a mixed bag type of deal.

ravenluv · Post by **ravenluv** » Wed May 03, 2006 7:37 pm

actually, the indians can just start their own event and take the whole gate (minus the shite slurper's contract, of course).

i can't believe i said that out loud....what if they heard me?

here or there : the next move

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Wed May 03, 2006 7:42 pm

Larry heard you and now your on probation no first camp swag for you!

ravenluv · Post by **ravenluv** » Wed May 03, 2006 7:53 pm

hmmm....from the looks of things, i've been on probation all along!

i DEMAND my fair share of first camp swag!

damn it....i've got to stop saying things out loud....

probation or antibation : the perturbation

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Wed May 03, 2006 8:00 pm

Well if you go to this thread and your a gal or a couple over 25 lots of Swag and Partyt favors for you!
http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=12839

hunter S · Post by **hunter S** » Wed May 03, 2006 8:02 pm

Just a question,...Has anyone in the Borg or outside ever ask the tribal council at Pyramid about hosting BM on the res.?
Not try in to stir things up.... just wondering.

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Wed May 03, 2006 8:05 pm

hunter S wrote:Just a question,...Has anyone in the Borg or outside ever ask the tribal council at Pyramid about hosting BM on the res.?
Not try in to stir things up.... just wondering.

I have heard that the BMORG was contacted by the Tribe to move it there...

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Wed May 03, 2006 8:51 pm

ronjon wrote:... If someone had the bandwidth to track citations with convictions, it might make for some interesting powerpoint presentation at the next Cooperators Meeting...

citations? convictions? those damn blue's just took the stuff and huffed it themselves.

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Wed May 03, 2006 8:53 pm

FOIA request

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Wed May 03, 2006 10:13 pm

wth reqest?

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Wed May 03, 2006 10:27 pm

citations with convictions records - Freedom of Information Act Request

helitack · Post by **helitack** » Wed May 03, 2006 10:28 pm

Would anyone care for some cheese with their whine?

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Wed May 03, 2006 10:34 pm

That would be nice and something to cover up the smell of the inflammatory lies that the county LE keeps spouting would be nice too!

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Wed May 03, 2006 10:40 pm

i know what foia is, i am wondering who you are directing that to and how?

BLM proposing raising fees - your help needed

The Feds Finally "Get" Burning Man

what a gas...

i deal reality

as the crow flies

that's probatable