V Camp for Virgins w/Vaginas (maybe Veterans w/Vulvas too!)

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:21 am

geekster wrote:She's talking about my post in the danger thread calling for a panty raid on V camp by women only. Seemed like a fitting frat-house like prank to me at the time and within their access requirements. I wasn't serious, by the way, so I would like to take this opportunity to ask people that they by no means actually have a panty raid on camp V in case anyone thought it was seriously under consideration. In fact, I think I am off any thread having anything to do with V camp at this point. There's already been enough drama surrounding the whole thing and I to some extent have apparently stoked some of it. Have fun and do let us know how everything went when you get back. I think your experiance might just turn out to be nothing like what you expected going in.

Agreed in fact they may be let down a little(danger wise)...Back to the how to make Burning Man dangerous again thread

Xta_G · Post by **Xta_G** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:32 am

Thanks, guys! As I said, I'm perfectly willing to look back on all this prepwork and concept, and laugh my ass off :) For now, though.. <shrug> .. it feels like the right thing to do for myself.

X.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:35 am

Xta_G wrote:...it feels like the right thing to do for myself.

i say go for it and have fun doing it.

Token · Post by **Token** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:42 am

X, with a provocative subject like this one you either need to clean up your PR statement so that it is politically correct and does not offend us men so much or take it to the extreme such that it becomes satire so absurd that it cannot reasonably be offensive.

The Future Hopes and Fears:

Welcome to V camp!

All men must be on leash at all times in the common areas

Aggressive men must be muzzled at all times

A gated Man-Run is available on the east side of the camp for off-leash exercise

Off-leash men under strict verbal command allowed only if escorted quickly to private quarters for fucking

Camp V is a Catch-and-Release camp. Please return your fucked men into the wild undamaged for future enjoyment by others

Obedience classes held at dawn daily. Please bring ample man-treats

Please clean up after your men. Scoopers and baggies are provided at the marked locations

Best of breed show and agility trials will be held on Thursday. Special Man-Grooming services will be held the morning of the show. Make that man earn you a ribbon!

If you do something like the above, I will gladly provide a day of hard, on-playa labor to help make it happen, leash and all. Sorry, no stud services; I'm spoken for.

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:45 am

Token is a genius! And it is a Theme! I love it!

Bonus I already have a leash!

PrincessCharming · Post by **PrincessCharming** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:03 pm

*!
LMAO!!!
Token I almost choked on my orange juice! That's hilarious.. I hope someone does it! I'm sure there are more than a few people who would be totally into this. I must tell my dom friend..

HughMungus · Post by **HughMungus** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:23 pm

PrincessCharming wrote:*!
LMAO!!!
Token I almost choked on my orange juice! That's hilarious.. I hope someone does it! I'm sure there are more than a few people who would be totally into this. I must tell my dom friend..

We have something like this in the works for our camp this year. I'd give details but I don't want anyone stealing it and don't want to risk Rockdad's disapproval.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:34 pm

For what it's worth my wading in late and not having read closely all the past posts:
1) rape, molestation, unwanted grouping do leave real scars. I don't know that an exclusive camp is how I'd answer that.
2) Regyna Longlanks is one cool dude or dudette if you prefer. Helping out the BED would be a mitzvah.
3) The Emergency Services Department does take sexual assult on playa seriously. (They also provide cousilling services.)
4) Non-registered camp rather than theme camp sounds like the answer. It's more difficult to find each other on playa, of course, but I think that's the only advantage.
5) Xta_G: check out the 'Sex Camps" thread to see the same crew of people jump on a man's ass for assuming that there ought to be some sort of camp sexually accomadating him.

Ron · Post by **Ron** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:01 pm

Xta_G wrote:..... though I still wasn't able to protect myself from a flasher on the street, the grab in a club, or to squarely shut down the date rape.

Well, see now, I'd argue you do, in fact, have the power to protect yourself from the flasher, date rapist, and so on. Even if that power is shown exclusively in your recovery and after effects of the assault in question. Or in surviving the attack.

A survivor of violent abuse myself, and a former instructor of women's self defence this is a topic that's near and dear to my heart. No victum of sexual assault bears responsibility for their attack, IMHO. I don't care if a young woman went to a frat party, alone, got drunk unto passing out, and then is raped. She could have done things differently, it's true. But the fault, responsibility, and blame for the attack lays exclusively at the feet of the attackers, as far as I'm concerned. Being tactically stupid is not a crime that carries assault, battery, robbery or any other attack as a legitimate penalty, in Ron's world.

Having said that, you do have the power to protect yourself from any attacker. Getting women to internalize that was always the focus of the beginning of the self defense courses I've been part of. The nature of that protection can vary from avoiding certain situations, fighting back, *deciding* when to end those struggles to avoid death or further harm, choosing to fully engage in your own personal recovery, making your own choices in regards to prosecution, and so on. Once you believe that you are powerless to protect yourself, then you are. Until then, as long as you can maintain some inner position of power, you win.

As for the camp itself, if I started bothering to have an opinion on the "validity," of each and every theme camp I'd never have time for all that drug use and recreational sex. It's your camp, go to. But, as a cynical survivor myself, keep your power. Don't ever say you lack any power to protect yourself until you lose the ability to choose to surrender. That generally comes a few moments after death. ;)

Ron

Xta_G · Post by **Xta_G** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:33 pm

Spectabillis: Thanks

Token: Thanks, too! I laughed my ass off.. and I'll keep that in mind for a possibility for next year!

Cryptofishist: I read "unwanted grouping" and at first thought you were talking about people being scarred due to our plans to group virgin women together.. but I think that was supposed to be "groping", however it is properlly spelt :) I am definitely going to be making use of BED's training and promoting their work, and I have absolute faith that the Emergency Services folk are well prepared to deal with bad happenings. And, I'm learning that ePlaya is an equal-opportunity-debate zone, so I expect to see similar jumpings-on pretty much everywhere now :)

Ron: I understand what you are saying... I meant that those situations were ones that I was not able to PREVENT.. but of course I am able to influence my reactions to them and choose how I travel forward... I really liked your last line, about keeping power until the point where you cannot choose to surrender, makes a lot of sense.

Alright folks... this is where I share some personal bad news: my brother-in-law passed away this morning, unexpectedly, so tomorrow I'll be heading to my hometown to be with my sister and family for a week or so... so when I become inactive on here, it isn't because I don't love all of you anymore, I just need to focus on the other people I love, too.

Be well, tell your loved ones how much they mean to you, and repeat often.

X.

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:40 pm

Sorry for your lost loved one..
Prayers and thoughts

thisisthatwhichis · Post by **thisisthatwhichis** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:07 pm

X,

Very sorry to hear about your loss....
Our prayers and thoughts will be with you.
Safe travels....

PrincessCharming · Post by **PrincessCharming** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:26 am

I'm very sorry to hear of your family's loss, X.. I haven't talked to my bro-in law for a bit.. you've inspired me to call the guy and tell him I love him tomorrow.

Many thanks to Ron and Cryptofishist for the thoughtful comments.

and Hugh, you'll have to let me know where you're camped, because I'm going to need to check that out! :D

This has been a very interesting and thought provoking thread. I've been thinking about what some of the others have been saying, the men who felt excluded etc and am sorry that they feel this way.. I can imagine it must be pretty crappy to feel like you've been sort of lumped in with a bunch of thugs, the UNshining examples of your own gender.. I hope they can see that it is not personal and recognize that it fully does SUCK for everybody that the actions of some guys create that need for safety and precaution.

Its great to hear how committed everyone is to looking out for each other etc regardless of differences. I can't wait to get "home"..! I hope to meet you all there. i am considering not doing an official theme camp but throwing up a sign when I'm in the mood: "Haircuts for the Brave".. I do a great mowhawk. and a fabulous mullet.. (kidding!)

hunter S · Post by **hunter S** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:40 am

X, my sympathies as well. My thoughts and wishes for your peace and well being.

Like princess, I too have found this an interesting discussion.
As part of the male gender, I am offended by the implication that because the jewels are a dangling I am to be lumped into being a pervert! Maybe going forward everyone who reads this thread will be slightly sensitized to the issue!

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:27 am

Xta_G Sorry about your loss. You have difficult times ahead. You've already proven you're a survivor and that you will reach for new experiences. I think those traits will serve you well.
Fishy

Token · Post by **Token** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:22 pm

X,

I'm so sorry for your loss. If my tom-foolery helps bring a smile to your face in dificult times, what more can a man-on-leash ask for.

Take Care,

Token

falk · Post by **falk** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:24 pm

OK, my own $.02

Maybe it's true that if you feel like a victim you will be a victim, but by the same token, if you feel like a women's space will make you safer then a women's space will make you safer.

Or something like that. What I'm trying to say is that V camp sounds like a perfectly dandy idea to me. If it helps women, especially first-timers, feel more comfortable at B-Man, then I'm all for it. A bunch of white men crying discrimination because there's someplace they can't go isn't really bringing a lump of indignation to my throat.

My only piece of advice is this: make sure there's plenty of vetrans in the camp as well as virgins. The black rock desert is like no place you've ever been before, and that goes double for Burning Man.

p.s. you will have a fantastic time.

ETA: Token is, indeed, a genius. You totally should do it.

mamagrrl · Post by **mamagrrl** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:35 am

falk wrote: ... if you feel like a women's space will make you safer then a women's space will make you safer.

Falk honey, I love you but what you just said is complete bullshit.
Feeling safe doesn't EVER make one safe. No matter what Mr. Bush tells you. There is no such flipping thing as SAFE.

Yeah, she'll do what she wants and get all girly-gooey over it. It's just not gonna be any safer than anyplace else she camps out there in the dust. She'll just be with chicks who think like she does and that can be comforting. If that floats her boat, then more power to her. Rock on.

Frankly, I'm hoping it's NOT a placed themecamp but does join into Hushville or AEZ or even Kidsville, because there are already so many non-participatory themecamps. Gods. The walls of RV's and tents filled with spectators, in participatory space. If you get placement, DO something interesting with it.

Safe.
...right up there with the flippin' tooth fairy.

Xta_G · Post by **Xta_G** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:16 am

Someone else made a comment earlier about us registering as a theme camp to get a prime spot, and your comment about us getting a spot in the participation zone brought it back to me...

My intention when I contacted Frog for pre-placement wasn't to get a "good" or "prime" or "cushy" or whatever area.... it was just to see if it would be possible for us to be placed SOMEWHERE in advance, to be able to show the other virgins coming exactly WHERE on the city map they should be aiming for. Suburbia would be fine... though some front-line camps have been really supportive of the V Camp idea, and want us to request being close to them so we can be neighbours, but that really isn't my priority at all.

Guh. I can't tell if I sound snarky or not, so I should stop.

I'd like to thank everyone for your kind words and thoughts... I'm at home with my family, and my sister is doing amazingly well (grateful that Dave went in his sleep, not while driving his rig and potentially harming others, or surviving a stroke but in a condition that he'd hate), and watching the local trucking community gather around her and be supportive makes me think of the Burning Man community and the amazing support I've experienced here already. Graz, folks.

X.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:33 am

Xta_G
I can see the point of wanting a pre-arranged spot, under the circumstances. I might be able to talk to some people about that. I'm not sure they would support, but I think they may consider. You can pm me (send me a private message), if you want to discuss this further.
Fishy

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:54 pm

Xta_G wrote:Guh. I can't tell if I sound snarky or not, so I should stop.

heh... if you call that snarky, you got nuttin to worry 'bout.

SubCultist · Post by **SubCultist** » Wed May 10, 2006 8:05 pm

I hate to revive a nicely put to bed controversial thread such as this, but a here's a couple of thoughts I had while reading this and other threads on the topic. Please keep in mind that my commentary is meant to offer ideas for the benefit of everyone's enjoyment.

Let me start off by saying that it's your camp, you should be allowed to do what you want in it. The issues that I have with this camp idea are due to the fact that it's a registered theme camp with an exclusivity clause. Since the only stated reason for theme camp status is to make it easier to find, it only seems prudent to offer some alternatives beyond registered theme camp status. In fact, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this before.

There's an information center setup in center camp which is meant to facilitate finding your friends. Last year there were computers setup where you could setup a profile and post your camp location. I left a message for a friend I'd only known through the internet and he showed up at my camp bright and early Monday morning. Besides the computers there are also bulletin boards where messages can be posted.

Also, the city is very well laid out. If you're planning on arriving early, you would have no trouble finding a spot in one particular block. It would not be hard to pick a spot ahead of time and post it to your tribe. Something to the effect of "we'll be camped on E street between 8:00 and 8:30. You'll know our camp by the big V in front."

My other thought regards retaining theme camp status but dropping the exclusivity clause, at least in partiality. The theme seems to be virgin females. Fine, nothing wrong with that, but this is Burning Man where it is, ostensibly, our duty to participate and be creative. This theme offers may opportunities for creative and fun participation. If you're going to retain theme camp status, then by all means, exercise those creative muscles and do something participatory.

Some ideas off the top of my head:

Create an portion of your camp where anyone is allowed to come and mingle. Some of my most cherished memories are of strangers wandering into my camp and interacting even if I never saw them again.

Create an inner sanctum where those with Y chromosomes must be invited into. An open club with a VIP lounge is much more enticing than a private club.

A rather fun adjunct to the inner sanctum idea, hold daily contests where the men of BRC compete and prove themselves worthy of spending a few hours lounging in the inner-sanctum.

I'm sure if you put your thinking cap on, you could come up with many more ideas for turning this camp into more than just a place for first timers who happen to be female to collect and camp. You've got theme camp status. Please exploit it.

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Wed May 10, 2006 8:29 pm

SubCultist if you have read the whole thread you will probably be mildly amused to find out they have been assimilated by the Eplaya Bar camp.
After all this discussion we became friends and just decided to pool resources.
Life is funny...

SubCultist · Post by **SubCultist** » Wed May 10, 2006 8:35 pm

Rockdad wrote:After all this discussion we became friends and just decided to pool resources.

The true spirit of BRC. Rock on!

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Wed May 10, 2006 8:37 pm

Come on over to the Bar thread and have a drink! V camp rep hangs out there too now

Xta_G · Post by **Xta_G** » Wed May 10, 2006 10:51 pm

Long live the right and ability to change one's mind and plans... :)

X.

stargeezer · Post by **stargeezer** » Wed May 10, 2006 11:18 pm

It appears that the Eplaya Bar camp may be a good choice for other first timers, am I correct? I keep getting drawn back to this website, thinking this may be something that I need to do. Assuming that I do proceed, what would be a good addition to the camp that I could bring? I would like to bring something that others would find useful, and would work as an ice-breaker to help meet people. Any input would be greatly appreciated as I will not come empty handed, and while I am used to the outdoors and roughing it, I usually have a forest surrounding me and a stream nearby, so my desert camping skills are basicly non-existent!

Xta_G · Post by **Xta_G** » Thu May 11, 2006 12:39 am

Star, come hang out in The Bar (find it under Open Discussion) and meet the other Bar Camp folks.. then they'll get you hooked up on the Tribe where we're actually making functional plans :) It sounds like a big membership drive is in the works, so I'm sure you'd be welcome to join us :)

X.

Xta_G · Post by **Xta_G** » Thu May 11, 2006 12:11 pm

Testing

Rockdad · Post by **Rockdad** » Thu May 11, 2006 2:07 pm

stargeezer wrote:It appears that the Eplaya Bar camp may be a good choice for other first timers, am I correct? I keep getting drawn back to this website, thinking this may be something that I need to do. Assuming that I do proceed, what would be a good addition to the camp that I could bring? I would like to bring something that others would find useful, and would work as an ice-breaker to help meet people. Any input would be greatly appreciated as I will not come empty handed, and while I am used to the outdoors and roughing it, I usually have a forest surrounding me and a stream nearby, so my desert camping skills are basicly non-existent!

Welcome home..Lets us know if you want to camp with us maybe tell us something about yourself on this thread http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=12798

V Camp for Virgins w/Vaginas (maybe Veterans w/Vulvas too!)

The V Future