Camera Etiquette

[gyre]

The ct thread seems very confusing to me and I don't find the parade very interesting anyway. But I am wondering if there is any consensus at all, as to what are reasonable manners when using a camera at burning man.
When I came back from the desert, a female friend complained that there weren't enough pictures of naked people on the burning man site. I kind of understand since I had trouble getting used to seeing people with clothes again-boring clothes anyway. I didn't photograph anyone nude last year because it didn't occur to me. You get used to it pretty quick.
Normally, I would only feel obligated to ask permission if I might want to publish a photo. I always ask when possible, as a courtesy. I would feel less concerned about asking if someone was in a performance mode of some kind, than if they were walking down the street casually. I feel people are usually more concerned about how they look in a photo, than whether they are in a photo at all. And some outfits are clearly intended to attract attention.
What do you think? If it's a theme camp intended for the public (and not in an x-rated mode) do you need to ask before taking pictures inside a theme tent? What about taking photos of an interesting non-public camp from the outside? How careful should you be of public nudity in a photo?
What if it's background only? Is the standard of courtesy different for nudity? Or are people just nervous?
I think the technical rules are pretty clear already.
I want to find out how far you should go to make people comfortable.
What are your feelings on this?

[hunter S]

Good questions, I have taken very few pictures at burns. I know many of my friends & camp mates enjoy taking pic's & I always end up with plenty via sharing.
Many pic's of different art pieces end up with nakid by standers in them, It's not the intent of the photographer it just happens. In my mind (maybe I'm wrong?) It's not wrong or infringing on someones privacy.

I know if my nakid bum ends up on someones pic's or web site as back ground that's not an issue to me. If I was the subject of focus I would at least like to give my consent. In my past experience folks that visited our camp and wanted to capture the moment in pictures have always asked if anyone minded, seems reasonable edicate to me!

[Dr. Pyro]

At Barbie Death Camp we encourage photography. In fact on our listing when it's published on the Theme Camp list we specificly say that by being in our camp you may take as many pictures as you would like but also concent to having your picture taken. We have found that works quite well. Other camps, understandably, would take a completely different approach. So I think it depends on the situation rather than making a blanket statement. Frankly I think it's too bad that more pictures aren't taken or are available--nudity notwithstanding--and that the camera Nazis tend to have things their way. But that's just me I guess.

[gyre]

I finally got to see barbie death camp on monday, I think. I'm glad you don't strike camp early. There was no one in the camp, so this was one of those times there was no one to ask about photos.

I was absolutely horrified and offended , so ... Great camp!

I recently found out that barbies are now made out of recycled ballistic plastic from aircraft containers. Do you find newer ones are harder to damage?

[Dr. Pyro]

Harder the better.

[gyre]

Hunter,
You want to be asked if you are the focus of a shot.
Is this because you want to be sure you approve of how the shot will look or do you think it's for another reason?

[ThePikey]

Photos have a tendency to make their way around the web, ne? There's plenty of folks who do things out on the playa that they wouldn't want their in-laws/SOs/bosses to know about. Public nudity being just one pertinant example. I recall someone being worried about photos finding their way into their ex's hands whilst they were in the middle of a custody battle...

Pictures can be especially dangerous, because they are taken out of context of the situation. And for those who don't know what the event is like, the subjects are easily judged as being freaks, such judgements having negative consequences.

If you want to inadvertantly fuck up somebody's life, go ahead and just take the pic and don't bother asking.

[hunter S]

gyre, If a picture taker wants to make me the center of focus in their lens, I think that courtesy would be to ask permission.

I think most people would feel the same, some don't care, but know one should have to worry about landing on the cover of the rolling stone with out signing a release.

[Stagger]

I am one of those who take plenty of pictures in BRC. Most of these are to chronicle the art, or how I spend my day or of the people with whom I spend my time.

When taking pictures of large art installations it is impossible to get permission from everyone within the photo for permission. In this situation, where there may be literally 100's of people in frame, I do not feel any reason to ask permission to take a picture. The logic being that (a) Anyone in attendance knows that many people take many pictures of the buildings and art at Burning Man so (b) no reasonable person can have any expectation of privacy in these locations. If someone's life might be "inadvertently" fucked up because they are seen naked in such a picture, it might be advisable for that one person to remain clothed at those locations rather than expect every photographer to get permission from every person. That person can still enjoy nudity in their own camp and on the streets of the city (as in fact I have in the past). It would be unreasonable for them to expect otherwist.

When taking pictures of individuals I will get permission, assuming I do not have previous permission. Fer instance... I like taking pictures of my camp mates, and sharing these post event. Anything questionable will not be shared or published without explicit permission. But I figure my friend Hypno doesn't mind having his picture taken... and I don't feel the need to ask him each time.

When I am a complete stranger, and I wish to photographe an individual (or a part thereof) I will introduce myself, and ask permission. I also state that my stuff goes up on the web, and hand out a card with the web page address on it. If someone wishes to have their picture removed once it's there... I have no problem with that. I figure this is sufficient. Last year I took a series of ... unusual .. photo's for a project that will be on the playa this year... all of these were done with this type of permission.

When shooting pictures of a crowd not connected to an art installation (eg. Center Camp) I use the same internal rules as I would in any "public" place - eg. Fisherman's Wharf. I do not focus on any one person but try to get a feel for the type of crowd and the energy of the place. It's perfectly possible for a tourist to shoot a picture at Fisherman's Wharf that would capture someone in a place they lied about being and inadvertantly fuck up their child custody case.

The logic that something I do "might" inadvertantly fuck up someone else's life because of something THEY are doing should prevent me from what I am doing... makes little sense to me.

Maliciousness is something else entirely....

I would never simply wake into a camp and start shooting pictures of things or people there.... The streets are public places, but step off them and you are in someone's space and you have to respect that. Sure, you could argue that the whole place is public space, but only if you wanted to be a complete asshole.

I also honor any "NO CAMERA ZONE" signs I see posted.

Finally, with regard to the Critical Tits event. Last year was the first time I actually ended up someplace to see this happen. I stumbled onto the Esplande just as it started going past that point in the "C".

I would have loved to take some pictures of all the amazing women and their supporters having, what appeared to be, a wonderful time.

But I didn't want to get painted with the appelation of PERVERT that is automatically slapped at anyone taking pictures of this.

It bothered me for reasons I find hard to put a finger on....
1) I'm standing in a place where normally no one would care if I took a picture.
2) An event is happening that is a well know, publicized in advance, PUBLIC event.
3) I'm a pervert if I do now what no one would give a shit about any other time.

There are probably a ton of arguements pro and con, but I just avoided them by NOT shooting and just enjoying and applauding everyone involved.

Anyway.. those are a ton of rambling thoughts...

[Stagger]

I am one of those who take plenty of pictures in BRC. Most of these are to chronicle the art, or how I spend my day or of the people with whom I spend my time.

When taking pictures of large art installations it is impossible to get permission from everyone within the photo for permission. In this situation, where there may be literally 100's of people in frame, I do not feel any reason to ask permission to take a picture. The logic being that (a) Anyone in attendance knows that many people take many pictures of the buildings and art at Burning Man so (b) no reasonable person can have any expectation of privacy in these locations. If someone's life might be "inadvertently" fucked up because they are seen naked in such a picture, it might be advisable for that one person to remain clothed at those locations rather than expect every photographer to get permission from every person. That person can still enjoy nudity in their own camp and on the streets of the city (as in fact I have in the past). It would be unreasonable for them to expect otherwist.

When taking pictures of individuals I will get permission, assuming I do not have previous permission. Fer instance... I like taking pictures of my camp mates, and sharing these post event. Anything questionable will not be shared or published without explicit permission. But I figure my friend Hypno doesn't mind having his picture taken... and I don't feel the need to ask him each time.

When I am a complete stranger, and I wish to photographe an individual (or a part thereof) I will introduce myself, and ask permission. I also state that my stuff goes up on the web, and hand out a card with the web page address on it. If someone wishes to have their picture removed once it's there... I have no problem with that. I figure this is sufficient. Last year I took a series of ... unusual .. photo's for a project that will be on the playa this year... all of these were done with this type of permission.

When shooting pictures of a crowd not connected to an art installation (eg. Center Camp) I use the same internal rules as I would in any "public" place - eg. Fisherman's Wharf. I do not focus on any one person but try to get a feel for the type of crowd and the energy of the place. It's perfectly possible for a tourist to shoot a picture at Fisherman's Wharf that would capture someone in a place they lied about being and inadvertantly fuck up their child custody case.

The logic that something I do "might" inadvertantly fuck up someone else's life because of something THEY are doing should prevent me from what I am doing... makes little sense to me.

Maliciousness is something else entirely....

I would never simply wake into a camp and start shooting pictures of things or people there.... The streets are public places, but step off them and you are in someone's space and you have to respect that. Sure, you could argue that the whole place is public space, but only if you wanted to be a complete asshole.

I also honor any "NO CAMERA ZONE" signs I see posted.

Finally, with regard to the Critical Tits event. Last year was the first time I actually ended up someplace to see this happen. I stumbled onto the Esplande just as it started going past that point in the "C".

I would have loved to take some pictures of all the amazing women and their supporters having, what appeared to be, a wonderful time.

But I didn't want to get painted with the appelation of PERVERT that is automatically slapped at anyone taking pictures of this.

It bothered me for reasons I find hard to put a finger on....
1) I'm standing in a place where normally no one would care if I took a picture.
2) An event is happening that is a well know, publicized in advance, PUBLIC event.
3) I'm a pervert if I do now what no one would give a shit about any other time.

There are probably a ton of arguements pro and con, but I just avoided them by NOT shooting and just enjoying and applauding everyone involved.

Anyway.. those are a ton of rambling thoughts...

[gyre]

I took a few pictures with permission to publish from the subjects, including the sheriff's department in front of the man. I was thinking of magazine publication though.
The web seems to cover the range from very private to the equal of publication. I have been to burning man photo files that I have to get permission to have access, others are simply relatively hidden. Then there are others like lennyjones.net which is very widely viewed. There is a webhouse I can't remember right now, that has the best set of theme camp photos I have seen. I saw the photographer ask permission to photograph even in the silliest cases, such as a sign posted on the street. I'm sure he asked because of his intent to make the pictures widely available.

[Whelp]

I've found a couple of BM pictures of myself online that I didn't give permission for, but since it was a part of a large, public event that I knew got lots of camera-time (lamplighting, to be precise), I didn't feel that I had any grounds on which to complain.

At the same time, if someone were to take a picture of me (me specifically, not something else with me unintentionally walking through the background) without my permission, I'd be pretty pissed about it. Moreso if I was doing something that could cause me trouble in the non-BM world.

[vic]

I take a lot of photos everywhere, including Burning Man. Each year at BRC I have taken more care to get permission. I ask gently and unless I get an enthusiastic approval I don't take my camera out of it's case. The exhibitionists love to have their photo taken, the rest should be free from photos. When in doubt, no photos.

[gyre]

What do you think about photos without people in them?
I wouldn't ask about photographing a theme camp unless I had publication in mind, but what about some of the other interesting stuff out there?
What do you do if there is no one to ask?
Do you need to ask?
Sometimes it's hard to tell theme camps from other camps out there.
I even ran into purposely unregistered public theme camps!

[Eric]

background- I've done club & event photography as a sideline for years. I've had to deal with some of the legal questions that arise from said jobs.

What people are saying about asking individuals is dead on. Barbie Death Camp is also on the money with their "being gives people the right to take your picture" signage- most (smart) clubs that I'm working at have something to that effect by the door when you walk in: if you want to be in that space, we can take your picture. Even in those cases, if I'm taking a shot of an individual, I ask.

As to theme camps, etc; the basic law with buildings (and public figures in most states) is that anything that can be taken from a publicly accesible spot is fair game (this is how paparazzi get away with the shots of celebs). The only catch is if the image of the building is a trademark- which many Las Vegas hotels are, for example. In that case, you can take a shot for personal use, but not to make an image you intend to sell.

Really Big Catch in Black Rock City: the entire city is a private event. By entering the gates, you agree to the rules of the LLC- if you intend to publish your images, read the rules on photography carefully, and follow them! (link: http://www.burningman.com/press/pressRandR.html)
The Bmorg has these rules basically to protect us from people like "Girls Gone Wild" swooping in and profiting on our fun. (that's another story)

*whew*

Back to my hibernating.

(edited to add press link)