Tracked vehicle construction?

Gravity Mike · Post by **Gravity Mike** » Fri May 12, 2006 4:54 pm

Jafe, Awesome work!

I was wondering what you were using for the metal. I've been 'away' working way too much, but I've also been improving my welding skills substantially - but I'm in awe of your guys building skills. I've been welding bicycles together, so I didn't have the same fume problems. That looked like EMT, and I know about the zinc issue. I used one piece in my 3-wheel bike (70% complete) and used a fan-driven cross wind between me and the weld (and an open garage door) to keep the fumes away.

I am definately coming up to the KSR and am taking a half dozen friends with me. I fully intend to race next year!!

Gravity

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Fri May 12, 2006 6:25 pm

Hi Gravity:

Do you have the information you need for the Kinetic Sculpture Race? To recap for everybody:

It starts in Arcata, Northern California, (downtown Arcata -- 8th and H) Saturday May 27. The actual start is at Noon, but you REALLY MUST be there a couple hours early.

I recommend following the race on bicycles to the Manila Sand Dunes (7 miles). Dead Man's Drop is good, but bring mosquito repellent. First Day ends in Eureka.

Second Day (Sunday) starts with the water segment in Eureka Harbor. I think it is supposed to start at the Marina this year, but check the web site. www.kineticsculpturerace.org

Third Day ends in downtown Ferndale just past Noon Monday May 29.

Most likely I will be racing Henry Ford Goes Surfing (see avatar), but that could change.

PM or e-mail me with any questions.

For the Glory!

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Mon May 15, 2006 11:45 pm

Wish I could come up for the race, that would be loads of fun. But no fear I will be welding away at home. No picture yet but have a good start on the main frame that will carry the bogie wheels and gearing of my tracked eliptical. Already gone through nearly 40' of 1.5" square tube, will get another 20 this Friday. Aack! But it is light thinwall. Please wish me luck...I could NOT find affordable C2080H K2 chain which I'm basing the track on so bought standard C2080H and will be welding on 120 bars for tread attachments. sigh. But I did win the auction for my last needed monster drive sprockets Sunday, yay! Got all the main parts now, just have to weld, cut, bolt, fit it all together. Anyone else feeling a time crunch already???

Mister Jellyfish Mister · Post by **Mister Jellyfish Mister** » Tue May 16, 2006 6:04 am

Just wanted to pop in and see what you are up to, Jafe. Damn me all to hell! You are making great strides! Passion, elegance, and a will to get it done right. My pith helmet's off to you, old bean.

There is one of Apokiliptika's elite Interrogation Squad (The I.S.) who answers to "Tank Girl". She may be gunning for you and your creation to do her bidding to bring about the end of the world and have fun doing it. Hope and fear, don't you know.

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Tue May 16, 2006 9:45 am

..........

Ok I'm building from the ground up, and this was two weeks ago: first hauling the 10' pieces home on my bike and then getting the rectangular base made. lots of other pieces for the suspension a-frames are cut up and awaiting welding this weekend. When they are on this will start to look like something. Maybe tonight I'll scan in some drawings to show.

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Tue May 16, 2006 9:59 pm

This assembly x6 is this weekends project. Most parts are cut, need welding...not shown is the strut that goes from the lower part of the main arm up to the middle of the frame to make an "A' arm on its side. I'm hoping it will give the strength and rigidity for skid steering side loads plus allow a little bounce over bumps.

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Wed May 17, 2006 12:09 am

this just showed up on ebay...a bit narrow maybe, but has tracked transport possibilities. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 7620345954

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Mon May 22, 2006 12:14 am

frame, transaxle, and main drive unit mated up today woowoo! the sprockets there go to a jackshaft and then to the monster track sprockets. it started to rain shortly after this photo, wet workday, track sprockets had to wait. what's the latest on your magnificent creation Jaffe?

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:15 pm

...hardly magnificent, but I did get the differentials mounted. Also got the front painted before the rain hit (metallic hammered grey) - note: this photo is from yesterday. I should have the drive sprockets next week...now I just have to hook up all the pieces (like a giant erector set).

Mister Jellyfish Mister · Post by **Mister Jellyfish Mister** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:07 pm

Jafe: We are green with envy here at Apokiliptika Labs!

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:00 pm

...well, at least you match your new baby!

here is a shot of the adjustable rear wheel support - it will allow me to tension and de-tension the track as needed.

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:00 pm

By Jove dJ! There be wheels on that chassis even, a rolling beauty of elegant design and I can hardly wait to see how it turns out with the track installation. Mine's still up on blocks (sawhorses to be precise) but progress has been steady. It has been rechristened the TRAK. Slow arrival of some metric parts for the suspension meant I got to work on the transmission instead. Hey, I think its going to work! One chain from the gearbox to the transaxle has been removed in the picture while I made some alignment adjustments:

The TRAK will be driven by the back sprockets. 2MPH is obtained in second gear with the drive sprockets turning at 75RPM and the eliptical crank being pedaled at 60RPM. The gear ratios are close...going to 5th raises the ground speed to 4MPH but experiments at the gym have shown that eliptical crank RPMs of 100 are doable without being thrown through a window so top speed may be in excess of 6MPH! Low gear gives granny crawling capability...there is a reverse for novelty, as all gears can be driven either forward or reverse.

Most drivetrain friction is introduced by the right-angle gearbox, chains, and the transaxle's need for a high input RPM (it was made for a mower engine afterall). 60RPM at the eliptical becomes 200RPM entering the gearbox, leaves at 525RPM then enters the transaxle at 670RPM courtesy of #40 speed chains on sprockets that really hum. Somewhat surprisingly it is easily handcranked so I have renewed hope that the rider will get good power to the tracks.

The front sprockets are idlers but have the drum brakes for steering. Doing it this way will keep the track tension constant during turns.

I have no provision for track chain tensioning beyond the weight of the track itself draped over the center idler sprocket at the midpoint of the frame. The track will be installed as tight as I can make it with no weight on the bogies. Then there will be a bit of sag when the TRAK is set down on the springs and further give in the chain will be allowed by the bogie springs so the track can absorb the height of a large bump (raver) without lifting the whole chassis. That's the theory anyways...hey I only studied a bit of engineering, learned most tricks on the farm.

Now the Starship Palomino may be way over on the far side of the BlackRock City galaxy and yet to be aligned with any of the Great and Noble Camps of Doom...but it will have the TRAK, and the TRAK needs a test. If by chance certain camps happen to be planning a Tank Course of challenging obstacles to be dealt with I would be interested in making the journey over in that direction for the Glory and the Doom...

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:03 am

Tiahaar wrote:...It has been rechristened the TRAK...

Ha! I have started calling mine the "BioTrak"... I am in awe of your drive set-up... also anxious to compare suspension theories. I am counting on the flatness of the playa to allow a relatively tight track - if my track is too loose the back tensioner will become unstable and collapse! I may put a limit on it to prevent that...I also decided to eliminate the reverse on the theory that it would add too much drag and not really be needed (the empty vehicle weighs ~300 lbs tops so several people should be able to pick it up and rotate it if needed).

I am started on my tracks now - built a jig (need ~330 tracks, each with 2 holes drilled).

Look forward to the great Mutant Tactical Vehicle Race at Apokiliptika Tuesday at 3pm...

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:14 am

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:58 pm

Nice looking project.....like watching stuff come together. Built a couple battle bots, and other wheeled projects.

Have you considered the side loads and weight on the front and rear wheels, that would try to cause the to spread apart, de-camber like old VW's. It looks like only the bending of a few tubes prevents this.. Maybe some diagonal tubes underneath toward the frame center...

Also skid steering puts a HUGE amount of side load on the wheels/tracks/bogies/.......

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:34 pm

EspressoDude wrote:Nice looking project.....like watching stuff come together. Built a couple battle bots, and other wheeled projects.

Have you considered the side loads and weight on the front and rear wheels, that would try to cause the to spread apart, de-camber like old VW's. It looks like only the bending of a few tubes prevents this.. Maybe some diagonal tubes underneath toward the frame center...

Also skid steering puts a HUGE amount of side load on the wheels/tracks/bogies/.......

Thanks for the feedback - yeah, I think of the side loads constantly. I am not skid steering, but differential steering. I am more worried about the link pins ripping the rubber walls apart - I am planning on using thin wall metal or wood discs to prevent this and stiffen the bending moment.

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:04 pm

Differential steering....one side pedaling faster than the other?

The side driven faster will pull the whole vehicle along at that speed and give a turning radius that is 50+ feet..

My battlebot had a 1.5 hp motor for each side, 2 driven wheels each side. The width (30") about the same as front - back wheel distance. Driving one side only, the turning radius was like 10x the wheel base. Not until actually electrically braking the inside motor did the turning radius get down to 2 - 3x wheel base. That started leaving rubber on concrete...big side loads

Zulegoona · Post by **Zulegoona** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:01 pm

Sounds cool E-Dude does it still live?,...... could be a fun desert accessory considering the neighborhood you’ll be in.

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:33 pm

Zulegoona wrote:Sounds cool E-Dude does it still live?,...... could be a fun desert accessory considering the neighborhood you’ll be in.

It does...couple issues for playa...325 lbs....and about 1/8" ground clearance. It would have to have the hammer weapon de-activated. It can put a 3/4" chisel thru 1/8" steel or 3/4" plywood/particle board.

here is a rear view of "WRECKTANGLE" note the spike and titanium skin

front is ground scraping wedge

Maybe we can offer rides on it....LOL HA HA

early construction testing

Zulegoona · Post by **Zulegoona** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:43 pm

is the hammer gas powered ? ,..... let’s see what other things could be put in it’s place????

It really is cool, did you do well, with it?

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:47 pm

a chair set on the end of the arm.... or drink launcher

120 psi co2 with 2 accumulator tanks and Huge poppet valve to 4"dia pneu cylinder....~ 1500 pounds to swing the spike.. so fast can barely see it move

did ok in local , sport died before really "competed"

Zulegoona · Post by **Zulegoona** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:51 pm

ground clearance would be problem , but It sounds like you half way to having a flamethrowers guts

Zulegoona · Post by **Zulegoona** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:05 pm

( as long as the thread is drifting )

Did you get a chance to get a good look at d6 last year? I thought it was marvelous and really wanted to know more about him,.. ah but it was a brief passing on the playa

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:44 am

dragonfly Jafe wrote: Look forward to the great Mutant Tactical Vehicle Race at Apokiliptika Tuesday at 3pm...

Most Excellent! The first must-be-attended event is booked on my calander : ) And...and...you are first out with the track chain too hellamighty.

Wow, that poor speaker/tv up there. that's a nasty whacker. hey that bot could desert run with some nice tracks on it maybe?? I like the flamethrower notion. would be one mean cigar lighter.

The TRAK is skid steer and will have diagonals up to a center stringer for each bogie set. The tracks will also be bull-nosed on every edge to lessen dig-in. My worry is how much tendancy the guide wheels at the front will have to climb up and over the chain...cause if it jumps there the chain will spool off the whole bogie set. That would be annoying. The center-of-gravity is rearward @ a foot or so from the midpoint to help the front end slide sideways...again this is all theory at the moment, real drive tests are weeks away at best.

Terranautical Reconnaissance & Attack Krawler

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:40 am

Terranautical Reconnaissance & Acquisition Krawler

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:23 pm

dragonfly Jafe wrote:Ha! I have started calling mine the "BioTrak"

Love it! I may really wish I'd gone with a two-person-power design too. TRAK is gaining weight alarmingly. First bogie set got put on today for a trial fitting woowoo!

Two funny things this weekend:

I've been welding a lot, the little mig happily Kzzzzzzzztttkzzzkzzztt-ing along. Yesterday I was stopped between welds and I hear this "KKKaKkkkxzkzzkzzziikkk??" behind me...what??? Then I saw up on the fence, heheh, a mockingbird trying to sound like the welder.

Second haha and welding tip: Patch any holes in your welding clothes!! I was sitting and welding overhead when a big spark found a tiny hole in my heavy shirt and went in and rolled down into my drawers OWOWOW!!

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:51 pm

Mutant Tactical Vehicle Race at Apokiliptika Tuesday at 3pm...

Oh boy. Now I'll have to build something "tactical" don't I?!

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:36 pm

.
1944 Studebaker M-29 Weasel featured in the June 12 issue of AutoWeek.
http://autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic ... /1027/FREE

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:53 am

Elliot wrote:
Mutant Tactical Vehicle Race at Apokiliptika Tuesday at 3pm...
Oh boy. Now I'll have to build something "tactical" don't I?!

Define "Tactical".

Does the cannon on my mutant vehicle count?

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:32 am

.
Tactics: "...methods for engaging and defeating an enemy in battle."

A cannon might be useful for such purposes, I believe, yes.

And Kernul Killbuck told me that all tactical mutant vehicles are welcome. So far,
I believe we are talking human power, but I cannot imagine a worthy motorized
vehicle being turned away; there would just have to be a separate heat for such -- eh?

Tracked vehicle construction?

Kinetic Sculpture Race

Exertrak is proceeding along

bogie drawing

stainless tank track

bitchin!

Re: bitchin!

Re: bitchin!

more subtly...

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