Some Theme Camps unaproachable

TestesInSac · Post by **TestesInSac** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:29 pm

Hell, even "7 Sins Lounge" wasn't open all the time. We were usually pouring mid-afternoon or early evening, and our mornings were quiet time, for coffee and Bloody Mary's.

Gothalot · Post by **Gothalot** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:30 pm

I dont think giving them the boot would have been enough. Next time come over to my camp and I'll lend you a chain saw, not Esplinade friendly I know but seriously there is a limit now isnt there.

You were obviously a friendly camp to do what you did and let it go as far as you did.

Be glad you didn't get yer couch pissed on like that other poster above. Ewe.

jaywalker · Post by **jaywalker** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:30 pm

Gothalot wrote:To me it did not seem to atempt to fit in with the years theme. Even saying that they still entertain and I had a smattering of fun watching them beat on each other.

Since when does the theme matter? By Deathguild doing what they do, was it really out of approach to the theme.

By Gigsville building a Doomakratik Republik, was that keeping with the theme. Look how fucking many temples were out there. So the groupthink wanted something spiritual. A community has folks in th clique and on the fringe. It would really suck if everyone had the same mentality.

There needs to be the sheep, the do-ers, the whiners, the playawalkers. This isn't Hedonism or anything else all inclusive. There are private moments and public moments. I've never given a shit about the theme, but still create. So, does that make me less than someone who has bought into all the hype.

I camped in Gigsville, hell, Camp Skynyrd, and everyone I met thanked us for the 'G' and gates for a landmark. People flocked like moths around the Car-B-Que. I knew of only one Gigsville only event, and that was at the Island of Misfit Strippers. It was where all of Gigsville could have fun without "creepy" folks or yahoos. I don't see anything wrong about a community enjoying themselves for a couple hours.

I am definately not unapproachable if your clearly not an ass, otherwise I am. I love that there is such a discrepency in views and opinions of what it should be. But, never try to tell em what the true burner spirit, or what a theme camp should be. We are the ones making some kind of effort and spending time building, planning, etc. Is it honestly worng to expect some quiet time?

Gothalot · Post by **Gothalot** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:32 pm

Okay T-bone, get over it. When you put your spleen back in and re-read what I said with less venom and then you might get it.

Halo Joe · Post by **Halo Joe** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:35 pm

clandyone wrote:Would we have been justified in giving them the boot? Justified or no, I would have, if it had come to that.

Abso-phukkin'-lutely! Esplanade camp or not, theme camps "rules" or not, you have the responsibility to take care of yourself out there, and to me that includes giving sketchy characters the boot, even if that means calling in the rangers (or some particularly large neighbors).

Having said that, it's much cooler if your guests bring good vibes rather than bad. (And again, in regard to yer unexpected guests clandyone, please folks, don't take too much of whatever yer taking!)

tbone · Post by **tbone** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:35 pm

Gothalot wrote: I'd like to point out again the minor fact that they (Gigs) did have gates albeit not all the way accross.

Um, I'm thinking that you didn't bother to actually look at those gates, did you.

Gigsville's theme this years was the "Doomocratic Republik" and the gates were covered with "barbed wire" made from El Wire. It was a communist dictatorship parody.

You also forgot to mention that the gates were 30 feet wide. They have to be large enough to allow emergency vehicles through.

You're really sounding like a whiner.

III · Post by **III** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:37 pm

>you might get it.

i'm quite sure that whatever you think *it* is, he doesn't want. i don't think it's one of those things that just goes away with penicillin.

why is it that, after one year, you are so all fired sure that you know where it's at and several many year veterans don't?

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:42 pm

why is it that, after one year, you are so all fired sure that you know where it's at and several many year veterans don't?

Thank you.

I swear next person who tries to tell me to my face what it's all about will get smacked.

To be fair I left the playa my first year absolutely sure I "got it".

However, I generally had the grace to keep it to myself until I was sure.

6 years and I still only know what it is on a second to second basis for ME.

Unfortunately the smackee might end up being my husband. He occaisionally suffers from the need to tell someone the meaning of burningman.

clandyone · Post by **clandyone** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:44 pm

Regarding Trey's last post -- yeah.

I think the assumption that others are obligated to furnish one with a good time is incredibly destructive.

If you don't like it, don't do it. If there's something you're not being provided, provide it your own damn self.

And if you don't like what someone else is doing -- tough.

You're not only responsible for your own survival, you're responsible for your own fun. Kinda hard to internalize in a society where fun is too often an artificially created commodity provided by others, but this applies at home as well as on the playa.

Nobody is obligated to entertain you. If they do, it is a gift. Be grateful. That gift horse has some mean halitosis.

Gothalot · Post by **Gothalot** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:45 pm

Yes hours of op's are'nt really an issue here. I did walk a few long treks to find no one home at 7-sins, no problem really, the issue that was originally posted was the openness of some camps, their aproachability. No one is obligated to open their doors to everyone, there are limits.
The issue I believe is or was, was the lack of friendly faces to strangers. Everyone has their story, how they had their couch pissed on or had people barge in on their camps at odd hours expecting something, this is unfortunate. The people who were unfriendly to the innocent know who they are. The people who disrespected other camps know who THEY are. I say let KARMA do the rest

tbone · Post by **tbone** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:48 pm

Hoyden wrote:Every year I hear how this camp or that camp wasn't friendly enough (or was just plain mean). Personally, I almost always find these camps to be the friendliest on the playa (but then, I’m “born again hard” according to the guys at Skinnard).

Actually it's Skynyrd, but they don;t really care that much.

What did you do to become "Born Again Hard"?

The same camps and villages get tarred and feathered every year (Carp, Gigsville, Space Cowboys, Death Guild), and the complaints are getting old. A large of part of how welcome you are made is the attitude you walk in with.

Thank you. A little sanity is nice.
I'm from one of those tarred and feathered camps - and every year we bring well over $10,000 worth of tools and professionals who know how to use them - and fix people's broken shit all day long. Sometime we get a bottle of booze in exchange, sometimes we make a new friend, but we ususally just get a "thanks" - which is fine. But we hear all the time "I'm scared to go into that camp" or "those guys are mean" but then your shit breaks and you come over anyway. It's a bit insulting.

Not all camps are for everyone (and that’s a GOOD thing, to quote the evil lifestyle maven). Not into polyamory? Don’t visit the human carcass wash. Want to run around the playa naked, with your hippie dreads flying? Don’t do it in front of Carp. Just as the Death Guild folks don’t expect the Yoga Harmony House to accommodate them, those people who are not aligned (mentally) with what is going on at Death Guild shouldn’t expect to be accommodated there. There is plenty of fun to be had no matter what your persuasion, so find the camps that appeal to you (and that you appeal to) and have at it!

That just needed to be repeated.

There were over 30,000 people at the burn this year. I managed to avoid the patchuli bath drum circle things (and will defent their right to be there, no matter how lame I think they are) but those same fucking people would try and throw me out for "not being open minded".

Fucking hypocrytes.

PJ · Post by PJ » Fri Sep 05, 2003 5:44 pm

...the only person with enough vision to actually understand what Larry "means".

I'm not sure even Larry knows that. However a computer-based Larry simulator application I've seen appeared to have it down pretty well.

clandyone · Post by **clandyone** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 5:49 pm

Who cares what Larry "means"? Larry and crew have provided all of us with an arena to express what WE "mean".

III · Post by **III** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:23 pm

>arena to express what WE "mean"

swoon.

clandyone · Post by **clandyone** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:27 pm

Awww. I would use the "blush" emoticon, but my recent dignity-ectomy was unsuccessful.

Halo Joe · Post by **Halo Joe** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:31 pm

clandyone wrote:Who cares what Larry "means"? Larry and crew have provided all of us with an arena to express what WE "mean".

I know this is the wrong thread, but fuckin'-A.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 9:05 pm

I actually like the idea that some theme camps are exclusionary.

I fucking loved that Gigsville set about stringing the barbed wire.

I like that Thunderdome perns are often snarling, leather clad assholes.

For me it keeps it all very fresh and grounded in my initial perceptions of what BM is about for me.

I don't think BM is primarily about this altruistic, homogenous group of similar-minded folk seeking some common idea or goal. It's always been about a gathering of tribes (excuse the lame metaphor) where a segment contributes to the general overall flavor much like a particular item (fish, scallops, shrimp) contributes to a fine bouillabaisse. What is cool is that there's often a cross-pollination of some folks or camps where connections are made and cross over associations come about rather easily due to planned or random interactions or shared aesthetics, ideas, beliefs or perceptions. It's this idea - this model - that has the most resonance with me when I hear the overused and often ill-defined term 'community.' I just don't subscribe to the idea that a true model of community somehow automatically or magically comes about by random individual or camps setting up next to each other for a week of desert camping. I think it's often what takes place the other 51 weeks of the year once those connections are further explored.

Just my take BTW.

nick · Post by **nick** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 9:46 pm

This thread is pretty well played out, but I want to amp on what T-bone and a few others touched on: If you are a theme camp (Esplanade or not) a lot of people will come by and bug you for a lot of crap. This can make a camper surly if allowed to go unchecked.

Our theme camp was located on a corner off a radial near another big camp and a surprising amount of rude and clueless people came by. Some just wanted to save a few steps by cutting directly through the clearly marked private area of our camp. Others wanted water, batteries, food, a place to recycle, a place to sleep, etc, etc. One guy borrowed a friend's jacket that was left outside for 20 minutes -- and had his car keys (we got it back). A hand-made piece of EL-wire art was stolen. At one point we had to escort a distressed festival-goer to center camp for medical attention.

Needless to say, all of this can really make someone who's spent the first 3 days of the festival on a freakin' ladder a might bit testy!

Long story short is this: If you come to our camp seeking help and are polite, we will do anything reasonable to help including letting people shelter in our dome during "closed" hours and giving people vital resources like batteries and water. If people are rude or snooty though, they can expect nothing but the boot.

-Nick

Gothalot · Post by **Gothalot** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 10:08 pm

Playa'd out Nick, Id have to agree (bawhahahaha, narf, pardon the pun) Its all about attitude , even the best of people can have a little tude , visitors and theme campers alike. Nuff said, I have ten tons of dust to get out of my tent trailer. And a full bottle of Vodka under all that dust I'm looking forward to consuming. Cheers everyone.

Halo Joe · Post by **Halo Joe** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 10:09 pm

Enjoy your dusty, drunken evening.

Stormy · Post by **Stormy** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 10:16 pm

One point of correction, besides that Gigsville is a village of camps not a camp, is that all Gigs camps on the Esplanade were interactive. Temple of Atonement, Human Space Invaders and Shambhala Rodeo were the only ones directly on the Esplanade. Other parts of Gigs were set further back to be buffered from the wandering masses. Now that's buffered from the masses but not closed to the public.

I actually saw the G Gate as a welcoming way into the village. There was a clear road in and what could be a warmer welcome than a flaming car?

Gothalot · Post by **Gothalot** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:12 am

Well the gates, as I saw it traditionally are not inviting however, it was more like an invatation to me so if it says to not enter its my natural inclination to want to enter even more. My comments about gates being uninviting still holds although to the brave those that enter come the rewards of trespass into something that could be inviting. I'll crawl back into my coffen and return to my bottle of Vodka (hic) .

tbone · Post by **tbone** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 10:31 am

Gothalot wrote:Well the gates, as I saw it traditionally are not inviting however, it was more like an invatation to me so if it says to not enter its my natural inclination to want to enter even more.

I'll use short words and type slowly so you can understand what I'm saying.

The theme of Gigsville this year was the "Doomokratik Republik". It was a parody of a comunist dictatorship.

Still with me?

The gates were covered with ELwire made to look like barbed wire.

It was supposed to look uninviting. That was the point.

Get it yet? This is the second thime this has been said, so my guess is:

a) you're nothing but a whinybitchtroll
b) you can't read
c) you aren't bothering to read
d) ???

tbone · Post by **tbone** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 10:42 am

Isotopia wrote:I actually like the idea that some theme camps are exclusionary.

I fucking loved that Gigsville set about stringing the barbed wire.

Actually, it was Camp Skynyrd - only one camp in Gigsville. It pushed buttons in Gigsville, as well as with the rangers. Not even everybody in Skynyrd wanted it to stay up all week - it really was hard to see.

Photos here.

I don't think BM is primarily about this altruistic, homogenous group of similar-minded folk seeking some common idea or goal.

Thanks god there are still people who get it.
Your burn is not the same as my burn.

Gothalot seems to want something complely different than I do, and that'scool - except (s)he keeps telling me my village was "bad" because (s)he didn't like the gates. Tough shit. It wasn't built for him/her.

It's always been about a gathering of tribes (excuse the lame metaphor) where a segment contributes to the general overall flavor much like a particular item (fish, scallops, shrimp) contributes to a fine bouillabaisse. What is cool is that there's often a cross-pollination of some folks or camps where connections are made and cross over associations come about rather easily due to planned or random interactions or shared aesthetics, ideas, beliefs or perceptions. It's this idea - this model - that has the most resonance with me when I hear the overused and often ill-defined term 'community.' I just don't subscribe to the idea that a true model of community somehow automatically or magically comes about by random individual or camps setting up next to each other for a week of desert camping. I think it's often what takes place the other 51 weeks of the year once those connections are further explored.

And that's what makes gigsville tick. We have folks who love to go clubbing all night with a head full of E, people who race cars and bikes, people who can build strange crap, and people who can decorate that strange crap.

I don't sew, but a gig camper sewed some things on my jacket while I was welding on her bike. We manage to like and tolerate 99% of the other people in our group - despite/because of our vast differences. We have a common thread of the Burn, but have 51 other weeks of the year to do things together and apart.

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Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 11:57 am

I would so much like to check out Gigsville during the year. I've been invited by someone on this board but the stars never seem to be aligned just right. Maybe this year...

Gothalot · Post by **Gothalot** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 12:26 pm

T-bone,

A parody? No really? Oh muh gawd. Your stating the obvious and the redundancy of this thread makes me wonder over and over where is this all leading to. We're not in a tape loop here, lets move on now. To paraphrase an old one... "Opinions are like A-holes, everyone has one. Even me. Lets get over my oppinions of gigsville, its not a personal attack on the group as a whole. My comments are my oppinions from my own experiences and ment as constructive critisism. Over all there seems to be little solution to the unfriendly atmosphere that some camps portray due to the diffrences in societal behaviors. In a nutshell If you don't like how a camp feels or treats you simply don't go in.

Stormy · Post by **Stormy** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 4:51 pm

Isotopia wrote:I would so much like to check out Gigsville during the year. I've been invited by someone on this board but the stars never seem to be aligned just right. Maybe this year...

What's your '20? There are "Gigs Events" happening every week.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 4:56 pm

San Francisco and Palo Alto

Stormy · Post by **Stormy** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 10:22 pm

Isotopia wrote:San Francisco and Palo Alto

Perhaps joining the Nor Cal Gigs list would be a good way to get in on the action. They are pretty active up there.

Stormy · Post by **Stormy** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 10:27 pm

Sorry Gothalot, but as a geriatric goth and a member of Local 666, I am hereby revoking your goth card. Please feel free to continue troll around as you wish, just cease and desist the use of the word goth in your handle or posts please.

Sorry if that sounds snobby but we're a pretty clique-ish group that doesn't welcome outsiders normally. In fact we hate most people in general, especially ourselves.

Some Theme Camps unaproachable

T-Dontget'it do ya?

Re: Blah blah blah

Re: I hear the same crap every year

Why I got surly

Playa'd out indeed

Just the facts please

Growel

Re: Growel

Rendundency redundecy redundency oh crap wheres the spl ck

Revoking Goth Card