Looking for respite relief from my testosterone camp!

sunn · Post by **sunn** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:33 pm

Situation: One girl, 3 or 4 guys ..yes, they're fun to play with but can one withstand all of the stinky boy testosterone for a whole burningman ?
I beg of you...in the spirit of all that is good and beautiful of BM....come and befriend your sister.....give me hope that there are cleansmelling estrogen camps out there that I may visit once in awhile!

PlayaPetal · Post by **PlayaPetal** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:20 am

Your more than welcome to stop by Camp Chickie...mostly female and gay male..were not a registered them camp, just a bunch of chicks that all camp together...

Post by **AntiM** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:07 am

Check out burning woman over on tribe.net, they have a goddess gathering which you might enjoy. I won't be attending it, no men, and I don't like to go where mylarry isn't allowed.

dana · Post by **dana** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:52 pm

I could try to clean up a little and slap on about 5 estrogen patches and you could hang out with me???

sunn · Post by **sunn** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:32 am

I will come bearing yummy gifts to Camp Chickie, thank you, Petal!!! Sounds purrfect to pop in. Can't wait....

Dana, you're welcome to come hang out at the testost laden camp, I will making it a nice little nest as well :), actually you all can venture over, I like to be a crybaby about the stinkiness of the boys but they actually are quite nice, and G is bringing is guitar.

sunn · Post by **sunn** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:38 am

AntiM, thanks...I'll check that site out...sounds great! Hey why don't you bring your Larry over to bond with the guys at my camp and venture off a bit with me sometime? It's good for them :) and us!

Post by **AntiM** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:55 am

You're welcome, and maybe you can convinve me to go goddess with you. You are most cordially invited to our little camp too. We're kinda dull, but quite nice.

Heh, Larry's a trucker and I only get to see him a few days each month, so the week togehter at Bman is honeymoon time. Then again, we honeymoon a lot, the first two years we were married we were in the Navy and saw each other a total of 28 days out of 730! So we're always, always making up for lost time.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:33 am

(they are so cute together too! But you didn't hear it from me!)

dana · Post by **dana** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:57 am

sunn wrote:
Dana, you're welcome to come hang out at the testost laden camp, I will making it a nice little nest as well :), actually you all can venture over, I like to be a crybaby about the stinkiness of the boys but they actually are quite nice, and G is bringing is guitar.

I just have to joke about the testosterone thing because it comes up often enough. I actually am curious enough that I'm thinking seriously of putting on a few transdermal estrogen patches sometime..... Maybe Burning Man would be the place? Radical expression and all???!!

Thanks for the invite!

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:01 am

dana. ask this guy

sunn · Post by **sunn** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:16 am

I've got some estrogen patches you can try, Dana...how's that for your burning man gift...never thought to give that out.....hm...do ya think it'd go over well?

dana · Post by **dana** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:53 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:dana. ask this guy

OK. So I'm not that curious... I was thinking more along the lines of the drug experiments of my well spent youth.

Of course both men and women each have estrogen and testosterone, but it is that relative balance that changes everything. When I was younger, I thought the differences between men and women were purely cultural effects. Now I see it all being more complex: ingrained cultural patterns, brain chemistry, hormonal effects, instinctual responses..... all tweaking our emotional and mental processes. I've had a few conversations with women that give me the impression that women really do sense things very differently than men (at least at times). How much of it may be hormonal?? And how much would I notice in a brief experiment? (Probably not much, but I'm still curious.)

I thought it interesting that one of the latest treatments for loss of libido in women is to give them testosterone. Kinda gives new meaning to "thinking with your little brain".

dana · Post by **dana** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:02 pm

sunn wrote:I've got some estrogen patches you can try, Dana...how's that for your burning man gift...never thought to give that out.....hm...do ya think it'd go over well?

OK I'm down for the experiment!!!

The only problem is that I'm not 100% sure if I'm coming this year. Decided I didn't want to come back to B Man until I had a trailer, and my new vintage Airstream is going to take a lot of work!

Post by **AntiM** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:27 am

Bleh. I'm on estrogen blockers and it sucks miserably. Don't fuck with yer hormones unless you must.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:40 am

Agreed. PCOS is a bitch--but not as much a bitch as the cure, the pill.
Skin hurt, nausea, got sores in places I wont mention, cried incessantly and even after I stopped taking it, I went on another trip on the depression bus. I'd MUCH rather have the extra testosterone. Of course, I'm a soft butch, so the gender dissonance isn't as bad as it might have been for a high femme.

sunn · Post by **sunn** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:45 am

oh how I love digression in posting....but AuntiM I LOVE my estrogen patches!!!!

At any rate....I think it's all a combination anyway....cultural, brain, hormones, and perhaps the main factor of all...who you are as a person inside. Everyone is a mixture of feminine and masculine...I like to think I'm a girlie girl but I know I have a lot of tomboy in me (and my guy has nicknames to that effect). One of the things I love about BM is the freedom to be whatever to you feel without anyone judging you, and if I don't want to wear a top one day because it's so frickin hot it doesn't matter.

50 more days to go to BM! Dana you have to go so you can try the experiment! (I'd invite you to share our little camp but our RV is full already!)
Anyone else can help poor Dana out??

dana · Post by **dana** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:13 am

sunn wrote: . Everyone is a mixture of feminine and masculine....

Everyone being a mixture is the ultimate truth here. I'm a guy named Dana and certainly like the 'ambidexterity' that my name implies - (sexually hetero, but some mixture otherwise.)

Oh.. and thread drift is the name of the game on the Eplaya! By the end of any thread, it is likely to have been off on any tangent imaginable. Drives the anal types crazy!

Thanks for the invites and all, even though my loopiness probably shouldn't be encouraged!!!

Post by **AntiM** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:08 pm

I'm not dissing estrogen patches, I just have had a bad adjustment to the tamoxifen.

I love the playa because I know I'm always beautiful there.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:33 pm

Oh we all have our own experience. I've known women who were saved from pms hell by the pill. I just have to say that the way they talk about hormones and hormone replacement as if it's a cure all instead of a complicated and sometimes dangerous and sometimes ignorant and certainly controversial treatment is just plain stupid.

and annoying.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:35 pm

Interesting discussion...

Being someone who has been on HRT the majrity of her adult life, after having her ex-friend Mr. Crystal Meth destroy her innards for the most part, I can espouse both the bad and good of Hormones. The bad? Starting from one MD who told me early menopause was "no big deal" and put me on nothing (I wonder if they found his body yet??) to the absolutely wrong balances compounded by even more f***-ups with more imbalances (Growth Spurts?! Anger/suicidalism??!! HAIR?!?!?!) to destroying relationships, romances, and my family, getting it wrong was a majorly fuck up. Nothing to play with. There are still traces which haunt me...

The good? AFTER I found an endo who knew what she was doing and got me balanced right (with the right compounds and doses and stuff) I not only got my life back, I actually felt fucking NORMAL! (Hell, I even became outgoing, gregarious, and maybe a bit more than just outspoken...)... Best of all - I like me. Even more than I did when I was an airheaded young mom, before I sped up my life on the powder plan...

* * * * * * * * *

Now, on to more germain, immediate subjugations... I cannot speak from personal experience on this regard, but from judging what's happened to the few guys who thought they'd experiment with the "Big E", (and some of the womyn I know who dabbled with "Vitamin T")... um...

How do I put this...

OK. Picture a slope. On the Matterhorn. Covered with ice. And Oil. And gorilla snot (is gorilla snot really that slippery??). Got it pictured? Good.

Now... as you slap that innocent little patch on your abs, you concurrently start dancing about .63 meters on the downhill side from the top of that slope.

Did I mention you're wearing polished carbon steel soled shoes? Very smooth. On the bottom.

Um Hmmm....

They had NO idea where that little innocent experimentation would lead.

Some remained friends. Some even became famous. Some became dead. But for the most part, they DID NOT remain the person who was there right before that little Matterhorn Mamba. And once they started, they had no control.

My dear Dana, please think about this, long and hard, before you go dancing, OK? And when the shoes slip, I hope you're smiling...

Hugz,
bb

dana · Post by **dana** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:46 pm

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:Interesting discussion...

Being someone who has been on HRT the majrity of her adult life, after having her ex-friend Mr. Crystal Meth destroy her innards for the most part, I can espouse both the bad and good of Hormones. The bad? Starting from one MD who told me early menopause was "no big deal" and put me on nothing (I wonder if they found his body yet??) to the absolutely wrong balances compounded by even more f***-ups with more imbalances (Growth Spurts?! Anger/suicidalism??!! HAIR?!?!?!) to destroying relationships, romances, and my family, getting it wrong was a majorly fuck up. Nothing to play with. There are still traces which haunt me...

The good? AFTER I found an endo who knew what she was doing and got me balanced right (with the right compounds and doses and stuff) I not only got my life back, I actually felt fucking NORMAL! (Hell, I even became outgoing, gregarious, and maybe a bit more than just outspoken...)... Best of all - I like me. Even more than I did when I was an airheaded young mom, before I sped up my life on the powder plan...

* * * * * * * * *

Now, on to more germain, immediate subjugations... I cannot speak from personal experience on this regard, but from judging what's happened to the few guys who thought they'd experiment with the "Big E", (and some of the womyn I know who dabbled with "Vitamin T")... um...

How do I put this...

OK. Picture a slope. On the Matterhorn. Covered with ice. And Oil. And gorilla snot (is gorilla snot really that slippery??). Got it pictured? Good.

Now... as you slap that innocent little patch on your abs, you concurrently start dancing about .63 meters on the downhill side from the top of that slope.

Did I mention you're wearing polished carbon steel soled shoes? Very smooth. On the bottom.

Um Hmmm....

They had NO idea where that little innocent experimentation would lead.

Some remained friends. Some even became famous. Some became dead. But for the most part, they DID NOT remain the person who was there right before that little Matterhorn Mamba. And once they started, they had no control.

My dear Dana, please think about this, long and hard, before you go dancing, OK? And when the shoes slip, I hope you're smiling...

Hugz,
bb

I'm only talking a few hours of one day. Just long enough to know what it feels like (if anything.) All of our hormones have a certain half life in the body. It would be metabolized just like the small amount of estrogen that my body currently deals with daily. I take it your your friends stayed on for awhile? That would not be a good idea. The pituitary starts to readjust things and it could take awhile to get back on track.

I agree with you on your take of how difficult a lot of hormonal (and psych meds) can be for people. The ugly truth of medicine is that physicians routinely trade a desired effect for some rather unpleasant side-effects..... and they're not always aware of how severe those side-effects can be, nor do they always discuss them with the patient. (Like using testosterone for female libido - I'd be leery.) If you go to a mechanic who screws up your car, you're just out some money to get it right. With medicine, if it's anything complex, you really should do what you did and find the right specialist.

It's kind of interesting that my wacky idea has gotten this much interest. I think the seed may have actually been planted by someone in med school in reference to psych meds. They felt that the physicians prescribing them should know exactly how bad the side-effects were, when they decide to prescribe certain drugs. They thought it would be good to take a few sample doses....

sunn · Post by **sunn** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:40 am

[quote="theCryptofishist"]Agreed. PCOS is a bitch--but not as much a bitch as the cure, the pill.
Skin hurt, nausea, got sores in places I wont mention, cried incessantly and even after I stopped taking it, I went on another trip on the depression bus. I'd MUCH rather have the extra testosterone. Of course, I'm a soft butch, so the gender dissonance isn't as bad as it might have been for a high femme.[/quote]

I agree actually...orals at the time I took them had much more frequent side effects than prob what they do now, I know the estrogen dose has been decreased. (So less weight gain, mood swings, etc)...however the depo injections I hear cause some people s/e.
I wonder if we all had our estrogen/testost. ratios measured how it would reflect our particular sexual persuasion...I know studies have been done in cadavers and the brain tissue. I'm sure ratios have been studied.
Consider myself bi so that may be very interesting in itself)

dana · Post by **dana** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:19 pm

sunn wrote: I wonder if we all had our estrogen/testost. ratios measured how it would reflect our particular sexual persuasion...I know studies have been done in cadavers and the brain tissue. I'm sure ratios have been studied.
Consider myself bi so that may be very interesting in itself)

Good question. Google it?
Crypto considers herself a "soft butch". Although I'm a definite hetero guy, there's been a few gay guys that were sure I was gay. (or maybe just hopeful!!!) So maybe I'm a soft hetero ("breeder").

Post by **AntiM** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:14 pm

Mylarry is about as hetero as it gets, until he gets drunk and flirts with the gay guys. I don't know if it is insulting or not, but it sure is fun for everyone. What does that make him, other than the world's biggest flirt?

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:48 pm

Who is your daddy and what does he do?

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:56 am

AntiM wrote:Mylarry is about as hetero as it gets, until he gets drunk and flirts with the gay guys. I don't know if it is insulting or not, but it sure is fun for everyone. What does that make him, other than the world's biggest flirt?

Open minded? A good sport? Willing to try things when drunk? It's all good.

Davoid · Post by **Davoid** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:19 am

I once read an interesting article about a F-to-M transexual who was very surprised at the primal way he found himself checking out or thinking about women, once he was on testosterone therapy. He felt he finally had an understanding of what's going on in men's heads, horny bastards. OK, I'm paraphrasing.

As for myself, a coupla years into my veggie-dom, I was going really heavy on the soy products. I mean soy burgers with soy cheese, soy yogurt with soy granola, soy protein shakes with soy milk.

What I didn't know was that soy has a good amount of plant estrogens in it, and that there can be too much of a good thing. No, I didn't develop tits or anything, but honest to God, my hips got a tiny bit wider. I didn't even notice until a GF pointed it out (easy to spot on my skinny, narrow-hipped bod). That realization made me think of how much more emotional I'd been for the past year or so, how much more I'd cried, etc. I'd been wondering why, since there wasn't much by way of other possible factors, and now I felt that I knew. I prolly shifted half a point on the Kinsey scale, too. Enough to notice, anyway.

I still do soy, but in much more controlled amounts. I think my emotions have gone back to their default state, kinda for the worse.

So now, yeah, I slap my head when I hear someone venting their unrealistic expectations about their SO in some way that shows zero understanding of the real differences between most men and women. Not that you need to slap on estrogen patches, or whatever, to be open-minded. I am happy to have felt at least a taste of the other side; I'm certainly better for it. Heh, taste.

(Oh, uh, good luck to you, Sunn!)

drifty drift drift

sunn · Post by **sunn** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:28 am

Hmm...didn't ever realize soy in large amounts could affect men. Interesting thought. I use more soy now for the natural estrogen benefit for women, but I wonder how much is too much for men and how much is the real benefit for women.

There are for sure differences in men and women, which is why I started this thread to begin with!!! I will love the guys in my camp but looking forward to making some women friends at BM....just for a bit of estrogen balance myself
:)

Post by **AntiM** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:40 am

I can no longer have soy proteins, well, not much soy, because of the estrogen. I'm on estrogen blockers, and tell you what, the side-effects include lethargy and mind-numbing flaky stupidity. And this weird quasi-perimenopause. So soy can be benificial for some women, but disatrous for others.

How much soy is good for you is a personal issue; your body's use of can change from year to year. Best be in tune with your body and system to keep tabs on it.

Huh, soy as unhealthy, there's a thought hmm?