Quiet generators

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Captain Goddammit
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Post by Captain Goddammit » Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:40 pm

ltcobretti wrote:You are definately not supposed to connect a Honda 2000i with anything but another one of the exact same... :shock:
I've been operating Honda EU generators connected together in any combination of EU1000, EU2000 and EU3000 for six years now, most often an EU1000 together with either one or two EU2000s, and they play well together!

Don't connect a Honda other than an EU-series, or any other brand though.
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Zipper
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Post by Zipper » Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:35 am

There are four brands that make super quiet generators. That is maximum 65db, which is the level of normal conversation. This is what is required if you wish to use them in US Forest service campgrounds I beleive.

The brands are Honda, Yamaha, Kipor, and Robins Subaru. The last two are lower priced than the Honda or Yamaha. I was considering the Kipor because a service manager at a major rv retailer said (on hid off time)they were selling a lot of them and people seemed to like them.

The Robins Subaru has an overhead cam engine, no pushrods, in a boxer configuration that they tout. Has anyone had any experience with them?

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interconnect?

Post by czar » Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:38 pm

You are definately not supposed to connect a Honda 2000i with anything but another one of the exact same... :shock:
what are you saying, it will shock you??

i went with the yamaha 1000 --which is also great-- but then i got more toys and quickly upgraded to the honda eu2000i. love it. and now my camp has quite power. i'm working on the external tank now.

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12 volt charging cable?

Post by czar » Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:42 pm

Anyone fashion up a custom DC Charging Cord/cable for the honda eu2000i?

or should i just pay the premium for the cable ?

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ibdave
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Post by ibdave » Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:42 pm

czar, Captain Goddammit He's your man on the honda's send him a PM. he'll tell ya how to do it yourself..
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Zipper
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Post by Zipper » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:44 pm

After realizing how much quieter the Honda is over all the others, I bought and eu3000. I think its the most considerate of others purchase.

Now, how to set up a fuel feed from separate tanks without having to move everything around?

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Post by Kinetic IV » Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:27 am

Keary wrote:After realizing how much quieter the Honda is over all the others, I bought and eu3000. I think its the most considerate of others purchase.

Now, how to set up a fuel feed from separate tanks without having to move everything around?
If you wouldn't mind after you get back from the playa would you post something about your experiences with it? I have a need for a bigger generator and I was thinking of buying either two of the Eu3000i's or two Yamaha units I've had my eye on. I'm particularily interested in how easy or challenging it is to move around / transport, fuel consumption, and how heavy of an electrical load you taxed it with.
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Captain Goddammit
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Post by Captain Goddammit » Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:22 am

Kinetic IV wrote: I have a need for a bigger generator and I was thinking of buying either two of the Eu3000i's or two Yamaha units I've had my eye on. I'm particularily interested in how easy or challenging it is to move around / transport, fuel consumption, and how heavy of an electrical load you taxed it with.
I don't knock the Yamahas, but a big consideration in favor of the Honda EU-type is that you can connect them to combine their output. As far as I know, that's still exclusively a Honda EU-type feature.

My elecrical load is lower at night so I just run one, then in the day when I have more stuff going I start the second. Since it's hooked together, there's nothing to change around about how everything is plugged in, it simply adds more current.

BTW, you can connect more than two Hondas, I was running 3 together at BM '04.
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Post by Kinetic IV » Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:35 am

You ran 3? I didn't know you could do that, I thought 2 was the max. How did you do it as far as the cables go?

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Captain Goddammit
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Post by Captain Goddammit » Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:01 pm

Kinetic IV wrote:You ran 3? I didn't know you could do that, I thought 2 was the max. How did you do it as far as the cables go?
Yep, you can hook up as many as you like.
You don't have to use the Honda interconnect terminals, inside the set they just hook directly to the power outlets. You can make up a double-male cord and plug one set into another, or make yourself a nice junction box.
You sorta gotta be sure you don't leave a live male end of a power cord unplugged where someone might touch it, though.

The deal with interconnecting the power output of Hondas is: Hook them together FIRST, THEN start them up. You can start or stop either set all you want... just don't make the connection while they are already running.
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interconnect & 12v

Post by czar » Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:31 pm

noticed on my honda, european plugs fit perfectly in the interconnect terminal. (banana plugs might work too?)

so you could easily put together a cable that way, solder euro plugs on each end. (i'm not running two yet, but nice to know there's room to expand).

haven't really seen anything quite like the 12v jack they've got on there, much just pay the $12 for the cable, and call it done.

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Token
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Post by Token » Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:08 pm

Cap'n, when running Hondas together, does the eco setting work or do you have to run them at full blast?

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Post by DustMeOff » Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:23 am

Yes, the econo throttle works when you have them hooked together.
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MarkM3
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Where to buy a honda last minute

Post by MarkM3 » Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:10 pm

Hi all,
This last weekend I stopped by Campingworld in Gilroy (they also have 2 locations in route to the playa in Cordelia/fairfield and near sacramento.)

They have all 3 sizes of Honda 'inverter' style generators in stock at a resonable price. The e1000i was $699, the e2000i was $999, and thew 3000 was about 2 grand. (You also get 10% off with membership.)

Hope this helps some of you procrastinators looking for power!

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Token
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Post by Token » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:14 pm

Well this is really confusing.

If I get the Honda Banana plug parallel cable and connect two EU1000 units:

1. Each unit does 7.5 A
2. Each unit has 15 A fuse
3. I can plug a load in either unit and get the full rated 15A output.

Now if I connect a EU1000 and a EU2000 with same cable as Cap'n says can be done:

1. EU1000 does 7.5 Amps / 15 Amp fuse
2. EU2000 does 13.3 Amps / 20 Amp fuse
3. I can plug into the EU2000 and get full 20A service
4. If I plug into the EU1000 I should trip the fuse with load over 15A. No-brainer, don't do that.

Now if I connect two EU2000 with same cable:

1. Each unit does 13.3 A
2. Each unit has 20 A fuse
3. I can plug a load in either unit and get only 20A output before the fuse goes.
4. I can only get combined 26.6 A if I connect different loads to each EU2000, on account of the fuse, but not a single feed with more than 20A.

Is there a way to get around this problem?

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Post by Kinetic IV » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:48 pm

In our test last night we used multiple loads that didn't come close to the 20 amp limit.
Damn, you just had to ask the question. It will be a bit before I can get everyone together again to do the test but that question will have everyone's curiosity piqued around here.
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Captain Goddammit
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Post by Captain Goddammit » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:01 pm

Token wrote:4. I can only get combined 26.6 A if I connect different loads to each EU2000, on account of the fuse, but not a single feed with more than 20A.

Is there a way to get around this problem?
Yep!

Make yourself a junction box. You can get everything you need at Home Depot or a similar place,

Get an electrical outlet box from the electrical supply section, and whatever electric outlets you want it to have... I like to set them up with a 30-amp "RV" outlet and one or two standard home-style 3-prong outlets. They should have face plates to go on the front too.

They also sell replacement cords for electric power tools. Get two of those... heavy ones, 12-guage at least. Wire them both to the outlet (or outlets) in your junction box. Plug one into each Honda.

You can wire circuit breakers into your box if you want, but you are already running through the breakers in the generators so I don't feel it's absolutely neccessary.

You now have access to the full combined output of both sets.
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Token
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Post by Token » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:53 pm

I think I found my answer in the User manuals for the EU series and some digging on the RV.net forums.

Manuals for all 3 EU models are available at Hondas website. Each one has a circuit diagram.

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/Gen_ ... /g_own.htm

On the EU2000 circuit diagram they show the two NEMA plugs protected by a fuse.
On the EU1000 and 3000 they do not show the fuse.
The Parallel Ports are NOT protected by the fuse on any of the models.

Now, here is the really important stuff:

The Inverter output on the EU1000 and the EU3000 are not polarized and each line delivers 62V. They are marked as Red and Red on the schematic.

Since the EU2000 is the only model with a circuit breaker, it makes good sense to speculate that it is polarized and marked as such with Red and White wire in the schematic.

So, I would venture an educated guess that it is probably a good idea to stick with connecting like units in parallel. I can understand how the inverters will sync the clocks of the 60Hz signal, but running 120V & Neutral in parallel with 62V & 62V(out of phase) … Makes me wish those brain cells with the trigonometry classes I smoked and drank away were with me again. For all I know it might work fine but it just doesn’t seem right.

A fellow in the rv.net forums also posted a bunch of pictures on some of his solutions to connecting like units. Of interest is the confirmation of the lack of fuse on the EU2000 parallel port and polarity. Also he dissected the $250 Honda module. What a rip-off.

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=6&uid=558963&

Bottom line is:

To get parallel operation you pull cables in parallel from either the NEMA or Parallel Port from each unit.
If you use the Parallel Port, you bypass the built in circuit breaker on the EU2000 but should pay attention to polarity.

If I had to build a cable, I would get Honda OEM cables for the EU1000 then modify them. The EU1000 cables are the cheapest, ~ $35. Cut them in half, run the cut end into a box, install circuit breakers on both lines for EU1000/3000 units or on phase line (red) for EU2000, add appropriate NEMA plug for the resultant Amperes.

Cap’n, I do not like the method you are mentioning since the NEMA plugs have exposed live rails if one pulls the cord out while a genny is running. Considering that most folks have the idea that a standard plug dangling in the air is safe, easy for someone to fry their nuts off. I would use the shielded Honda cables and the Parallel Ports unless you have a clever way of locking the NEMA plugs.

Standard Disclaimer: The post above contains information about modifying electric circuits that carry lethal voltage and currents. You could die if you attempt any of the items listed above.

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Token
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Post by Token » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:11 pm

BTW, the Parallel Port plugs are a perfect match to the shielded banana plugs on my Amp Meter clamp / Power DMM. I believe home depot carries those in the electrical section as replacement leads so going with the OEM Honda cable is optional. I would guess Rat Shack also has these plugs, prob’ly cheap.

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Captain Goddammit
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Post by Captain Goddammit » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:19 pm

The EU1000 will shut itself down if you overload it. It's been a while since I played with an EU3000, Ive forgotten what type of circuit protection it has but I doubt it has none.

Polarity issues are an advantage of using standard 3-prong plugs... you can only insert them into the generator one way and they have a ground terminal too. If you use the "parallel operation terminals", it's up to you to get it right every time... and they might be red and black when you are home, but they will all be tan on the playa.

I mention that you don't have to fuse your junction box because if you construct it with the standard 3-prong plugs you will be running through the generator's circuit protection, but you are absolutely correct and it should be understood by everyone that the factory parallel connection ports are not protected.

It's definitely not a BAD idea to include fuses or circuit breakers in any case, though!

I mention often that there IS the hazard of having a somewhat unpleasant experience if you leave a live male plug lying around.
My personal thought about that is: Stay the hell away from my generators!


And about the 62V red and 62V black vs. 120V "hot" and 0V "ground"... what really matters is the difference between the two... 62V positive and 62V negative are 124V apart from each other... really, I've run all three EU models in parallel, in mixed combinations, and they are all happy.
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Token
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Post by Token » Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:08 pm

Good points. Like the polarity solution with the NEMA plugs and the black/red/tan.

As for protection, only the EU2000 has the circuit breaker due to madate. A single 120V line must be protected to get UL. 62V is below the threshold so it is not mandatory to install a breaker.

All three units do have soft protection, an electronic circuit in the inverter that triggers after 4 seconds. The circuit breaker on the EU2000 120V rail is pure thermal/mechanical and has a button on the control panel for reset. The other two lack this function.

I personally would install additional breakers if I had more than two units in the generator farm since we are pushing the device into a mode of operation not anticipated by the original design.

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Captain Goddammit
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Post by Captain Goddammit » Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:26 pm

Hey, just for the hell of it, I'll re-post the link to my external fuel tank plans. http://ilynne.com/captaingoddammit/
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Post by DustMeOff » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:14 am

Thank you very much for the info. I built your gas extender tank and it worked GREAT!!! I have the parts and might do another for my second genny since I got another honda boat gas can for a steal. I think it would be easier to twist one at a time rather than trying to deal with the T in the middle.
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge. I for one truly appreciate it.
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sugaree77
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Honda EX650?

Post by sugaree77 » Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:44 am

Any comments on the Honda EX650? As I recall, it's noise spec is fairly close to the EU2000. Thanks.

Steve

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Post by sugaree77 » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:57 am

replying to my own post, looks like the EX650 is the older version of the EU1000.

Looks like the Yamahas now offer the same daisy-chain-ability as the Hondas.

Steve

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Token
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Post by Token » Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:31 am

sugaree77 wrote: Looks like the Yamahas now offer the same daisy-chain-ability as the Hondas. Steve
Cites?

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Post by sugaree77 » Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:48 am

Token wrote:
sugaree77 wrote: Looks like the Yamahas now offer the same daisy-chain-ability as the Hondas. Steve
Cites?
whoops, further analysis indicates this feature may only be offered for the 2400i (Yamaha equiv to the EU2000i). from the 2400i accesories list:

>Hook two EF2400is generators in-line with this TwinTech cable.<

Steve

ChiChe
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Yamaha

Post by ChiChe » Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:57 am

I recently picked up the Yamaha 2400 silent generator. I have a 14 ft travel trailer with window a/c, small fridge, lights, microwave, etc. No trouble at all with running everything.

Only weighs 70 pounds and is super quiet. Not cheap but felt that the quiet models afforded me more flexibility on where the generator could be used.

dj_john69
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Post by dj_john69 » Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:16 pm

I have a question to anyone that uses a baffle...when using a basic 4'x4' plywood box...no top or bottom, is that enough ventilation to keep the generator from overheating ??

Im working on a baffle box for a Coleman Powermate...YES, the noisy bastard. I dont want to piss off too many neighbors around me.

Today i had a 2 piece top made and on it with the generator running to check out the noise levels but i believe that the generator overheated and shut down. (and i noticed a lil oil under the generator that wasnt there before.)

Anyone have this issue before ?? Any solutions to help me out ?? Nothing worse that arriving on the Playa and you have NO AC !! Ugh, that was my problem last year with a borrowed generator...got out there and it died that day.

Thanks for any and all info to help me.

~John

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Post by unjonharley » Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:24 pm

That power mate is the loudest one of all. Dump it.
I'm the contraptioneer your mother warned you about.

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