McBurners -- Burning Man as Cult and/or Franchise

Alpha · Post by **Alpha** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:23 pm

Really great uniforms?

Blenderhead · Post by **Blenderhead** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:26 pm

rogue agent wrote:
Blenderhead wrote:At first glance, I can say 3 of them are in desperate need of new members.
3 out of 6. Does that make you half right or a half-wit?

RA

Actually, after momentary reflection, I think both apply equally in this situation.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:31 pm

rogue agent wrote:I'm saying that the people who study this stuff use my definition, and I explain why they use it instead of any of the popular ones. People use words they don't understand all the time; just because more people use one definition than another, doesn't make it better.

Lifton lists a set of criteria to judge whether a group practices a coercive form of "mind control" on its members or initiates. This is not equivalent to a definition of "cult". What you are talking about could perhaps be stated as "a cult or other group in which mind control as described by Lifton is used".

I have no problem with someone saying that Burning Man is a cult -- it fits a variety of the term's definitions, even though it doesn't satisfy Lifton's criteria. Not fully, anyway.

rogue agent · Post by **rogue agent** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:36 pm

Bob wrote:I have no problem with someone saying that Burning Man is a cult -- it fits a variety of the term's definitions, even though it doesn't satisfy Lifton's criteria. Not fully, anyway.

When people on the street say "cult", they mean the pejorative sense. The original author certainly meant the pejorative sense. You're saying you want to use the word non-pejoratively. I'm saying that the pejorative sense has no objective meaning outside of Lifton's 8 points, and trying to use the non-pejorative sense will only confuse people. "Yes we're a cult, but we're the good kind".

RA

gizray · Post by **gizray** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:41 pm

he said pejorative. i'm telling........

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:42 pm

The original author certainly meant the pejorative sense.

I agree except for this; The original author meant 'a' pejoritive sense. S/he did not imply 'The' as in 'your' pejoritive sense. I do not get, from the original text, that the author is talking about mind control, suicide, theft of assets, or sarin gas attacks. So, by your definition, BM is not a cult. I do infer, and perhaps wrongly so, that the author is talking more about the webster definition(s) and in that sense, the shoe can be made to fit.

TestesInSac · Post by **TestesInSac** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:54 pm

rogue agent wrote:When people on the street say "cult", they mean the pejorative sense. The original author certainly meant the pejorative sense. You're saying you want to use the word non-pejoratively. I'm saying that the pejorative sense has no objective meaning outside of Lifton's 8 points, and trying to use the non-pejorative sense will only confuse people. "Yes we're a cult, but we're the good kind".

RA

Reading the definition offered in the M-W 10th Collegiate Edition, I see nothing overtly pejorative. The first definition is "1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP". This word appears to have been around since 1617, and now someone named Lifton has stated a definition of cult, outside of which no objective meaning for cult can exist?

rogue agent · Post by **rogue agent** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 11:23 pm

stuart wrote:So, by your definition, BM is not a cult.

Yes.

I do infer, and perhaps wrongly so, that the author is talking more about the webster definition(s) and in that sense, the shoe can be made to fit.

His logic is "BM is becoming a cult, therefore I'm not going anymore & neither should any of you". Which Webster's definition fits that logic?

RA

madmatt · Post by **madmatt** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 9:36 am

ERIC SCHMIDT; Google
245 words
29 September 2003
Business Week
119
Number 3851
English
(c) 2003 McGraw-Hill, Inc.
When Eric E. Schmidt, the 48-year-old veteran of Sun Microsystems and Novell, took over at Google Inc. two years ago, it was trial by fire. One of the first orders of business was joining his new 20-something colleagues at Burning Man, a free-form festival of artistic self-expression held in a Nevada desert lake bed. Sitting in his office shortly after his return, tanned and slightly weary, Schmidt couldn't have been happier. ``They're keeping me young,'' he declared.
Google is proving the Net is still young, too. The freewheeling company has almost singlehandedly recharged Web searching, a business that pioneers such as Yahoo! Inc. forgot. Google is the most-used conduit between Net users and online information, responsible for answering roughly three-quarters of all searches. Indeed, it took an upstart like Google to help show the Net's leaders how to make money by linking ads to search results. Now, paid search is one of the Net's most profitable enterprises, especially for Google, which is expected to be in the black on revenues of $700 million this year. Its initial public offering, likely next year, could open the IPO floodgates for tech companies.
Schmidt's challenge: keeping Google focused even while beating back a growing pack of rivals, such as Yahoo! and Microsoft Corp.'s MSN. If Schmidt handles this right, it will be the competition that gets burned.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:27 pm

rogue agent wrote:His logic is "BM is becoming a cult, therefore I'm not going anymore & neither should any of you". Which Webster's definition fits that logic?

More accurately, Pesce confessed to missing the 2003 event, and spent the Labor Day weekend palming off the usual logic-deficient laundry list of shallow criticisms as an excuse.

I missed where he wrote what he actually did at Burning Man all those years.

Blenderhead · Post by **Blenderhead** » Sun Nov 16, 2003 12:52 pm

You want cult? Here you go:

----> The Squid List <--------------------------------------------------

Jonestown 25 Years Later -- A Look Back
Wednesday, November 19
6:00pm - 8:00pm
Free

----> Event Description <-----------------------------------------------

Join

- REV. ARNOLD TOWNSEND, former director, Western Addition Project Area
Committee;
- JIM JONES, JR., adopted son of Peoples Temple and Jonestown founder
Jim
Jones; and
- OTHER GUESTS to be announced, including other former Peoples Temple
members

for a panel discussion and screening of clips from "After Jonestown" (a
work-in-
progress documentary film on the life, death, and legacy of Jonestown).
Program to be followed by a Q&A session.

Moderated by

- Cynthia Selmar, Director of the African-American Health Initiative;
and
- Paul VanDeCarr, Co-producer/co-director of “After Jonestown”

SPONSORED BY: The African American Coalition for Health Improvement and
Empowerment, The San Francisco History Center and the African American
Center of the San Francisco Public Library, and the African American
Historical
and Cultural Society.

Zane5100 · Post by **Zane5100** » Sun Nov 16, 2003 5:53 pm

I still think it's a Faustian bargin that Larry's trying to achieve here.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:49 am

*bump*

'cause it might be fun to re-visit....?........

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:46 am

shut the fuck up and drink the goddamn Kool-aid.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:38 am

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:56 am

ygmir wrote: to re-visit....?........

You were on here in 2003?

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:01 am

no...........

C.f.M. · Post by **C.f.M.** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:35 am

His article is a little hysterical - and his premise completely flawed.

An article about how BM really is being a franchise, and "selling out," would have been more interesting - not to me, as it is already my personal opinion, and doesn't need other people agreeing with.

He comes across as whiny, to me. Which is unfortunate, as I think there is a point to be had.

But a cult? Nope. Not even close.

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:48 am

ygmir wrote:*bump*

'cause it might be fun to re-visit....?........

Ever considered a hobby?
Self mutilation for example.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:59 am

goathead wrote:
ygmir wrote:*bump*

'cause it might be fun to re-visit....?........
Ever considered a hobby?
Self mutilation for example.

I'm bored with that........

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:00 pm

ygmir wrote:
goathead wrote:
ygmir wrote:*bump*

'cause it might be fun to re-visit....?........
Ever considered a hobby?
Self mutilation for example.

I'm bored with that........

it does get a little old, and messy at times.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:32 pm

Cult? Franchise? What the fuck do most of you little beaches care? Fact is you'll be going back to the event like the good little mothlets you are.

But please, feel free to carry on with your non-substantive whinging. Maybe - if you're lucky - someone will solicit you to help them write a fucking term paper on this outrage.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:39 pm

ahhh, the silky smooth, Mel Torme like voice of treason, i mean Reason...

thank you brother badger, by the way, i need a new pair of purple high-tops, one of those idiots over at hee-bee-gee-bees spilt the beans about the aliens coming to take us all away and now EVERYONE wants them, they keep getting involuntarily gifted from me.

The Hepplewhite Memorial Coffee Cafe will be hosting a Passahock! farewell organic fruit marmalade and scone breakfast before the annihli....i mean SHUTTLE TRANSPORTS to HEAVEN arrive for departure.

lock the gates.

heavens gate that is, we dont anyone sneaking in.

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:49 pm

I thought it was black hightops and purple triangles.......

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:52 pm

Why do you guys know stuff like this?

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:54 pm

I, for one, only retain the best of useless if not eclectic information...........

and, I'm hoping to re-discover the "golden plates", and, interpret the rest.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:52 pm

Remember if you're going to wear purple you only wear one thing purple. Shoes, shirt, jacket, scarf, etc. NEVER wear two articles of purple. Rather, accentuate the purple with dark blues in combination with something black (pants, jacket, hat, etc.)

Break this fashion Rule of the Universe and you risk public humiliation or being mistaken for some North Dakotan cowboy on a weekend payday bender.

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:03 pm

You can wear all the purple you want to, as long as you have spinning hubcaps.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:50 am

the correct spelling and pronounciation in new york is "Poiple"...

McBurners -- Burning Man as Cult and/or Franchise

Larry's letter

all aboard!