Experiences in Center Camp

TestesInSac · Post by **TestesInSac** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:53 pm

Ivy wrote:>Since the org is using the coffee sales for propping up other parts of the infrastructure,

According the the article in the gate edition of the BRG, the cafe operates at a loss.
Dunno where the author got that info, though.

Suspicious as hell, if you ask me. Labor is one of your biggest costs in food service of any kind, and CCC baristas aren't paid. And their volume is better than any Starbucks I've ever seen.

Tawnee Lynne · Post by **Tawnee Lynne** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:05 pm

I worked center camp for two days, not for the money,other starving artists needed that. Why do we have a problem with helping others, no matter what the need? The second night I worked there was a mass of people needing to work, to pay for their tickets, I told kayla to take me off the tip split because I didn't need the money, when in fact I am not financially secure by any means. Others needed it more. I still cleaned center camp and volunteered to help back up the ones that were splitting the tips. How mny of you did that? Yet you are ready to dispose of the service... my opinion only...not saying I am right, just giving you a different perspective. Some of those people payed their way to burning man through that cafe... who am I to try to deny future helpers that same option?
Tawnee Lynne

Ivy · Post by **Ivy** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 5:04 pm

>I told kayla to take me off the tip split because I didn't need the money, when in fact I am not financially secure by any means. Others needed it more. I still cleaned center camp and volunteered to help back up the ones that were splitting the tips. How mny of you did that?

:::raises hand:::

Me too, babe. You can come on down off that horse now. It's so high, I wouldn't want you to fall...

Tawnee Lynne · Post by **Tawnee Lynne** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 5:25 pm

it isn't a high horse. I don't want praise, I want the freaking bitching to end. wait... nevermind I just will keep my comments to myself and not look. the eplaya has been fun, but when I go to read about the other great experiences people had, and I see bitching, it pisses me off. I would rather not be a part of all that... thanks
Tawnee Lynne

Julie · Post by **Julie** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 5:25 pm

I've only had positive interactions at center camp. It's unfortunate to hear of so many others having not-so-pleasant experiences.

On Wednesday afternoon I was having some extreme caffeine withdrawls, or perhaps it was just delusions considering I had only gotten like 4 hours of sleep every night till that point. The two baristas that served me were quite charming, both encompassing very welcoming embraces with their wide eyes and smiles. I proceeded to chat with one of them, a journalist from Germany about the intricacies of life and ourselves. After about 20 minutes I felt like I was in the way, distracting him from his job, but just as I said my goodbye he said, "No stay! We're not busy anyway. Let's chat some more!" So I did. It was one of the nicest interactions I had at Burning Man this year.

At center camp I've always taken pleasure in just relaxing with my sketchbook and watching the interactions unfold between new aquaintances.

PJ · Post by PJ » Fri Sep 05, 2003 5:26 pm

olivia wrote:i can see no reason why center camp is so evil and bad. i could live without buying coffee from there, buying coffee didn't make me less self-reliant. center camp fills a need, and that is demonstrated by the hundreds or thousands of people that went in and out of there every day.

I wouldn't call the Center Camp Cafe evil, but if it weren't there the people that gravitate toward the middle of anything would have to work at interracting a little more.

It's popular but so are broadcast television and theme parks. It's not the best thing out there, but it happens to be in the center of everything.

And the tipping is evil i.m.o.

clandyone · Post by **clandyone** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 5:28 pm

Only hit Center Camp to visit Zane and check out the "webcast" cams. (snicker snort)

Although when campors went to pick up coffee, they brought some back for me. So am not entirely free of guilt.

icarus · Post by **icarus** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 5:43 pm

thanks for mentioning Ron the Chai Guy's "Free your Chai" movement. that man mobilized our whole camp into giving out delicious, refreshous iced tea just a few paces from centercamp cafe. as much as the recipients enjoyed the stuff, i'm convinced those of us who gave it away, enjoyed it even more. next year, we'll give away gallons of the stuff! soon we should obselesce the entire cafe.... we sure could use your help.

Julie · Post by **Julie** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:04 pm

Ron is a freakin great guy! And the chai cart was such a fabulous idea..not to mention very delicious chai.

<3

icarus · Post by **icarus** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:16 pm

julie, were you at the cafe protest? i had larryngitis/rasta voice...so i primarily just drummed. i'm thinking of giving away iced chai at the venice beach drum circle this sunday...

PJ · Post by PJ » Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:54 pm

icarus wrote:..i had larryngitis...

I'm guessing that's caused by chain smoking and pontificating at great length.

Halo Joe · Post by **Halo Joe** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 7:11 pm

icarus wrote:thanks for mentioning Ron the Chai Guy's "Free your Chai" movement. that man mobilized our whole camp into giving out delicious, refreshous iced tea just a few paces from centercamp cafe. as much as the recipients enjoyed the stuff, i'm convinced those of us who gave it away, enjoyed it even more. next year, we'll give away gallons of the stuff! soon we should obselesce the entire cafe.... we sure could use your help.

THAT'S what I have against the Center Cafe (not camp, but cafe) -- if there happened to be no place to buy coffee, tea, chai (and thee?), maybe some others would follow Ron's example. Talk about meaningful interaction.

Tawnee, Julie, et al, I'm not bitching. If people want to go buy drinks in Center Cafe, great. (That doesn't I'll buy in, but that's another matter.) I just think it's a bit hypocritical to scream "COMMERCE SUCKS!" while selling drinks at $3 a pop.

And I'm all for people working to pay for their trips to the playa. I do it every year ... (Look forward to seeing you both next year. I'll make your coffee!)

bschlong · Post by **bschlong** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:23 am

center camp cafe...it is what it is what it is.

Good place to people watch, to go when you are feeling that you want to be alone but not away from human be-ings, for newbies to orient themselves, for those of us less gregarious to come up with a resaon to chill and sit beside/chat with a stranger, for the caffeine addicted to get there fix.

So lighten up all you anti commercial touchy feely types, there are as many resons to visit the cafe as there are people there, no one is forceing anyone to go or even buy a cup of Java there !

jaywalker · Post by **jaywalker** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:43 am

Tawnee Lynne wrote:Why do we have a problem with helping others, no matter what the need? The second night I worked there was a mass of people needing to work, to pay for their tickets, I told kayla to take me off the tip split because I didn't need the money, when in fact I am not financially secure by any means. Others needed it more. I still cleaned center camp and volunteered to help back up the ones that were splitting the tips. How mny of you did that?

Burning Man is not a need. It is a luxury.

I wanted to go. I sent out a fundraiser/put my labor to use e-mail. I busted my ass to get there. I know that so many hours gets you reimbursed to a specific level ticket price. People have a whole year to put away for it, so I don't buy into the "needing work" or that I have to tip, even at Six Flags over Black Rock. Yes, there are always financial emergencies. I've had my share, so I don't see really any valid excuse for people "needing to work".

I've done my years of volunteering. The night I came through, I picked up cups all over the place. The center cafe structure is a strain on finances, cut's down on self reliance and gives an excuse to not be responsible since you are paying for a service. Make coffee and share it with your neighbors, walk down the block and enjoy it with others.

It's just an expensive, pretty camping trip. Burning Man would survive without Center Cafe. I'd kinda like to see it go. But the people lugging ice at Antartica, they deserve my appreciation for moving all that weight during their shifts. Fuckers keep my steak and beer cold. That's what camping is!

end smart ass remarks

icarus · Post by **icarus** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 10:22 am

I'm guessing that's caused by chain smoking and pontificating at great length.

Wrong, PJ. I don't smoke. But thanks for revealing your prejudices. Also, in terms of pontificating, I challenge you to find anything pontifical in what I wrote. Perhaps if you take offense by someone advocating giving away beverages, you should invest in a dictionary to more aptly describe what strikes you as so bothersome. In fact, I'd even be willing to SELL you the dictionary if that would make you feel better about using it. Peace, brother, let's just get naked and tickle one another, huh?

PJ · Post by PJ » Sat Sep 06, 2003 11:03 am

icarus wrote:Wrong, PJ...But thanks for revealing your prejudices.

Another day, another joke passing over somebody's head.

You spelled "laryngitis" (an inflamation of the larynx) as "larryngitis"(sic) which was (apparantly unintentionally) very funny.

Larry (Harvey) well-known as the founder of B.Man, etc. etc. etc., is a famously wordy chain smoker. Which makes him susceptible to your freshly-coined malady, "Larryngitis." Which is funny but less so when it has to be explained.

Halo Joe · Post by **Halo Joe** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 12:56 pm

bschlong wrote:no one is forceing anyone to go or even buy a cup of Java there !

Gee, I thought that was sort of one of my points...

OK, my last statement on gravity, er, Center Camp: Visit, buy coffee, watch the hippies drum and dance, stare at the 18-year-old without a shirt, meet interesting people, ignore the grand pronouncements from upon high (since those upon high ignore them as well, apparently) about "no commerce" at Burning Man -- but don't get too defensive when someone else states an opinion about the hypocrisy of BUYING ANYTHING at a so-called NONCOMMERCIAL EVENT.

(Really folks, the logic seems sound to me ...)

playa_buddha · Post by **playa_buddha** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 4:19 pm

Center camp is my favorite place at Burning Man, because it's the one place where everyone feels free to enter, and it does "cater" to everyone. In other threads people are debating about theme camps that seem unapproachable. The fact is, some theme camps do seem unapproachable, or maybe they just don't offer anything that you're into. The fact is, they're "someone else's turf" whether you feel or are made to feel welcome or not. Center Camp is everyone's "turf". It's a shady, comfortable place to come and hang out in the heat of the day, or when you're tired of wandering or dancing at night. For somewhat shy people, like myself, it's a place to go to intermingle on a comfortable level.
In the heat of the day, it can be really crowded, but Center Camp crowded does not compare to me, for example, to a mall at Christmas time crowded, where I get a severe case of claustrophobia. I don't mind being in close quarters to burners, whether in front of the crowd sitting like sardines before the burn or sharing a love seat with a guy wearing a tutu and a devil mask. It seems like the american standard "two foot rule" of personal space doesn't so much apply in BRC.
As for people complaining about commerce - it's funny that whenever someone brings it up, they usually don't mention the ice sales at Antarctica, just the beverages. Ice is really a necessity that won't last a week. I have no problem with either. The beverage sales helps fund the event, and it helps provide "scholarships" to BM for those who really want to come and can't afford it. What I personally don't want to see is trinket and T-shirt stands, costume and food vendors, and pay bars. Leave that to the Renaissance Faires and carnivals.
Center Camp to me is a meet and greet for everyone. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that every theme camp cater to the masses, but it's nice to have one place that does.
Buddha

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 4:28 pm

> Ice is really a necessity that won't last a week

It won't last a week, but it's far from a necessity. It wouldn't be hard to
live solely on nonperishables. It might be harder to have a gourmet
kitchen, but you wouldn't die or anything. Plus, I arrived Saturday and
didn't buy ice until Wednesday afternoon. No dry ice involved, just good
coolers.

And I do have conflicting feelings about selling ice. On the one hand, I
really like cold beer and fresh sandwiches. On the other hand, what was
that about radical self-reliance again?

I don't like Center Camp much because it's got a big looky-loo feeling to
me. I'd much prefer to wander into some theme camp and take the risk
that what they're doing doesn't appeal to me than hope to meet some
super-cool person who happens to be drinking a chai and chucking the
cup in the communal trash bin.

ubu · Post by **ubu** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 4:42 pm

Ron the chai guy rocked!

and pj that was very funny and I actually got your joke before you unpacked it.

I also dug what you said about seeing what quitting your job and even staring down poverty can do for the "soul".

I knew we'd meet up somewhere along the line. anyone with a cow in their crack can't be half bad!

Precip, what the hell is this looky-loo criticism you and others keep throwing. Anyone doing their thing in center camp is an exhibitionist and they need voyeurs to complete the equation. they need the bloody looky-loos. same goes for the public muff divers or the critical tatas. if they didn't want attention they'd just go nekkid in their tents or something. Or are you saying that you are not an exhibitionist?

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 5:02 pm

ubu, bite me. No need to jump down my throat. Just because I disagree
with your position on how laws should be enforced doesn't mean you need
to be consistently antagonistic. Besides, it's only funny when I do it.

No, I'm not particularly exhibitionist. At least, most of what I do doesn't
seem to be interesting to others. There are notable exceptions to that, of
course.

I find the vibe at Center Camp to be particularly non-interactive in the
sense of personal interactions. I have no problem with folks riding around
"spectating" at art. I have no problem with folks wandering around and
coming into theme camps and saying, "Whatcha got here?" because you've
obviously got something to offer. I don't particularly enjoy going to Center
Camp to see what someone's going to do to entertain me. Same reason I
don't frequent the Venice boardwalk or 3rd St. in Santa Monica.

And no, I have no problem that people don't want to be interactive all the
time. But I prefer to do that in my own camp most of the time, rather than
surrounded by people who seem to be in some sort of weird meat market
mentality.

Do I think people who patronize Center Camp are evil? Of course not. But
I don't choose to spend my time there, and the reason is the vibe. Doesn't
appeal to me.

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 5:04 pm

> they need the bloody looky-loos. same goes for the public muff divers
> or the critical tatas.

Perhaps. That doesn't mean I have to be one of them, or enjoy being
among them. I haven't done Critical Tits for years now because I find the
guys with the cameras pointed at all the tits to be immensely depressing.

Ivy · Post by **Ivy** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 5:07 pm

As for people complaining about commerce - it's funny that whenever someone brings it up, they usually don't mention the ice sales at Antarctica,

I can tell you why I'm not bringing up Camp Artica:

In my experience, the people working at CA aren't hustling or outrageously soliciting tips. They aren't relying on that tip money to reimburse the cost of their ticket or to make enough to get themselevs back home. Last I heard, all money from CA, sales and tips, went to charity.
That is why I personally have no beef against buying ice at CA.

As for the anti-commerce of it all, well, if they took away the cafe to be anti-commerce, then I'd certainly back them taking away Artica, if that was the reason they chose to do it. You clearly can't remove the cafe on the grounds of being "anti-commerce" and then leave the ice sales.
But it's unlikely that either will end, so the point is pretty well moot.

madmatt · Post by **madmatt** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 5:31 pm

Yeah, it's a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there. I think Center Camp is cool to look at, and is great for all the people who only came with a tent and have no space, or who came alone and want to mingle.

But let's be real here, it's the Burning Man shopping mall. The only place where you can spend money. The sheer magnitude of the anticorporate, anticommercial tendency vibe at BM is one of the principal reasons why I love it so much, and love all the people who come so much.

So...at the risk of being rude, why did you go to buy a cup of coffee with money at center camp anyway? Didn't you bring your own coffee? We're supposed to be self sufficient out there. I gave Center Camp a wide berth.

polykarmatic · Post by **polykarmatic** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 5:59 pm

Man I loved Center Camp... It's a great place to nap and people watch..but then that's just my opinion...I could be wrong.

PJ · Post by PJ » Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:02 pm

In years of B.Man attendance I've yet to buy anything at Center Camp. But I've volunteered in the ice trailer for a number of shifts for several reasons: I felt like volunteering for something, I felt like I needed some time in the shade while acclimating early in the week, I felt like getting some combo aerobic and weight lifting exercise, and the rapid-fire teamwork inside the trailer is fun. Always told 'em to stuff "my share" of the tips, however, because I really don't believe in it. "Bare", the woman managing the shifts I happened to work, is very talented at running crews of volunteers. She understands that volunteers are not employees and her crews operated like a well-oiled machine. Fun.

Only once, in one year, did I use any ice whatsoever--Camp Arctica is obligated by state health regs. to throw out any ice that has a ripped bag. Workers can take some of that if they like, so I took an opened block. Dropped it about ten times trying to bike back to the airport with it. Kept the cheese in the little cooler yummy an extra couple of days, which was nice. But hardly mandatory.

Booker · Post by **Booker** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:41 pm

less so when it has to be explained.

Oh, I dunno. I found the explaining funnier than the joke. Shoot me.

I like my coffee, and I was a dumbass & forgot both the percolator and the espresso pot, so I paid money for coffee. Shoot me twice. I've had a few pleasant chats at the café but nothing mind-blowing like Lydia describes. Yet I hope the cafe´ comes back next year for this reason (and e-playa veterans may feel free to skip the following which you have read before--I promise I'll do it only this once this year):

That little, isolated dose of commercialism helps prevent the awful disease of ideological purity, IMO. Think wabe sabe. (Relax, III. Breathe, baby!) If the community were to absolutely banish all commerce anywhere past the gate, then we'd be able to congratulate ourselves for our Great Purity. Well, I fucking despise Great Purity. Go on and muddy those waters, O Café. Protect us against the awful fate of living out the full absurdity of our fantasy. Remind us of the reality that we would prefer to forget. In my opinion, we'll be the better for it.

And for the record, in the purchase of maybe a coupla dozen lattes over the years I have never once been hustled for tips. Word, as they say.

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:44 pm

> Go on and muddy those waters, O Café.

Best argument I've ever heard for the cafe. Bravo.

Flux · Post by **Flux** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 7:20 pm

That little, isolated dose of commercialism helps prevent the awful disease of ideological purity, IMO. Think wabe sabe. (Relax, III. Breathe, baby!) If the community were to absolutely banish all commerce anywhere past the gate, then we'd be able to congratulate ourselves for our Great Purity. Well, I fucking despise Great Purity. Go on and muddy those waters, O Café. Protect us against the awful fate of living out the full absurdity of our fantasy. Remind us of the reality that we would prefer to forget. In my opinion, we'll be the better for it.

Beautiful point!

One could say the same about "volunteers" being "paid" with comp. tickets, the org shooting off a shitload of fireworks on burn night while they're verboten for everyone else, and myriad other cases of what the more hotheaded among us might call hypocrisy.

I prefer to look at everything that happens as performance art, and the more it fucks with my head and my preconceived notions, the better.

playa_buddha · Post by **playa_buddha** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 7:54 pm

OK, I'll acknowledge that ice isn't an absolute necessity. It makes life a little more pleasant - radical self-reliance or not - I don't necessarily want to eat Spam, backpacker rations and canned stew for a week. I also don't want to have to pay $20 to exit and drive to Gerlach on Thursday to re-stock.
I just think that these two things can be sold without making the event yet another flea market festival that's all about commerce.
And about the part of Center Camp being a meat market to ogle T&A - that's not why I hang out there. (Which doesn't mean I don't look, btw) Mad Matt put it best - it describes my situation perfectly
"I think Center Camp is cool to look at, and is great for all
the people who only came with a tent and have no space,
or who came alone and want to mingle."
This year more than any other, I made good and fast friends with all the people camped around me, and I spent more time with them and away from Center Camp this year, but I still think it's a good place to relax or perform, or give or receive a tarot reading, or - Gods forbid, buy a cup of chai in the midst of my wanderings.
And to Booker about muddying the waters of the "Great Purity" - bravo!! I hadn't even thought of that, but I will now every time I go there in future years. Rebellion against the rebels! I'm going to wave my three dollars in the air and announce "Look everybody, I'm spending money at Burning Man!"
Buddha

Experiences in Center Camp

Experiences in Center Camp

Re: i love center camp and cafe!

Center camp is my favorite place

"center camp is usually a very beautiful place"

Great place to make new friends..

Ideological purity