Burning man is dead... no longer worth the time...

Share your views on the policies, philosophies, and spirit of Burning Man.
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Chai Guy
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Post by Chai Guy » Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:11 pm

I have one of these! Did you do the 'dust sucks, slow down' stickers as well?
Yeah, I also did "Where the Hell is Black Rock City, Nevada" and "It was better Last year" the funny thing about that one is some people would look at it and go "But I didn't come last year" or they would say "How do you know it was better last year, it's only Tuesday?"

Too Funny!

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stuart
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Post by stuart » Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:21 pm

thanks for the gift then. I made t-shirts that said 'last year was better'. I like the social sorting out they provide by observing peoples reaction to them.

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III
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Post by III » Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:24 pm

>rebuttal Trey

it was troy (van berry) that said that, but since i'm in the same camp (sorta) i'll feel free to answer that.

burning man, for the first couple of years that i went, fulfilled several needs and desires for me, to wit: opportunity to meet creative intelligent new people, art created for arts sake, rather than for financial gain or personal recognition, inspiriation, and the opportunity to explore my personal boundaries.

over time, i developed a year round community that fulfills all of those items on a continual basis. those things are still available at the festival, in spades, it's just that i have found other avenues for satisfying those needs. i'm not opposed to the event, i think it can be very valuable. it's just that for me personally, it's a closed chapter.

the eplaya is (was?) an opportunity for me to connect with likeminded people that are not geographically convenient, or with whom i wouldn't connect otherwise. as evidenced by the discussions in the current alternatives to the eplaya, these people are (as i used to remember thinking about most people i met at burning man) people of exceptional intelligence, creativity, and weirdness, and that's why i seek out their company.
[url]http://3playa.cultureshark.net/[/url]

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unjonharley
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Post by unjonharley » Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:33 pm

I figure if you spit out a bunch of sore grape. You should cough up the rest of the story. Why he went to BM so many years And didn't want to be there? Why he can't count the years? He seems a little mixed up. Or maybe he has decsided to TROLL us. And a piss poor job of it IMHO.
I'm the contraptioneer your mother warned you about.

hypermartyr
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www.burningmanisdead.com

Post by hypermartyr » Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:43 pm


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DE FACTO
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Re: www.burningmanisdead.com

Post by DE FACTO » Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:50 pm

hypermartyr wrote:www.burningmanisdead.com
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre
minds."

Albert Einstein

need I say more.
even though...........

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III
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Post by III » Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:01 pm

>I figure if you spit out a bunch of sore grape. You should cough up the rest of the story.

i'm sorry. that's not english.

> Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.

i'm not sure how this applies. (i think i know how *you* think it applies, but you better be ready to go back to logic school if you want to defend that position. in particular, the existence of a causative relatioship between two premises does not imply that the presence of that causative relationship is sufficient to support the existence of either of the premises.)
[url]http://3playa.cultureshark.net/[/url]

Guest

Post by Guest » Wed Oct 29, 2003 8:42 pm

I'm a little reluctant to contribute to a thread that you folks seem to have identified as trollish, but here goes.

I think bman has gotten more impressive in some important ways as it has grown. I remember one year (might have been 98, but I'm really not sure) seeing piles of trash by the portapotties. Haven't seen that happen in the last three.

The center camp, to me, seems to be more friendly and interactive every year.

The amount of stuff going on in the back streets has seemed to grow pretty consistently every year.

The different themes have had different success rates, though floating world seems to have stuck around longer then many would like.

The eplaya and regional groups seem to be helping people carry the spirit thru more of the year.

People seem more educated on leave no trace and related ways of taking care of the event each year. I know I certainly learned a lot more as the events went by. 2002 I was crap at it, 2003 I was little better. Things change, as others have written above.

Ticket pricing I think has gotten better as the bmorg makes tickets cheaper for those who order early.

And back to the eplaya, I haven't seen a better example of people working to build community while allowing free expression. I've learned a lot here about what makes for an environment focused on building, and supporting expression.

Just saying it sucks or isn't 'burning man' doesn't really do it. You gotta say what's bothering you if you can. I had a bad 03 bman but it's in the past. Doesn't mean the whole event is fucked.

Oh, I'm getting a little ticked off. That's not likely to help my writing. I'll just say ... no, I think it hasn't gotten too big for it's britches.

precipitate
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Post by precipitate » Wed Oct 29, 2003 9:55 pm

> Ticket pricing I think has gotten better as the bmorg makes tickets
> cheaper for those who order early.

I agree with all your points but this one. They started the tiered ticket
pricing the same year they made things expensive*. I paid $65 at the
gate on Friday in '98. I paid $65 (or $85, I forget) as the early price in
'99, and bought the week tickets went on sale. I don't think ticket pricing
can be said to have improved at all. I mean, sure, in principle I support
the <i>idea</i> that you can foster poor starving artists by giving them
the chance to buy less expensive tickets, and by encouraging those who
can pay more to do so. I'm not sure that's how it ends up working.

* I believe. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please.

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Isotopia
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Post by Isotopia » Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:16 pm

"Where the Hell is Black Rock City, Nevada" and "It was better Last year"
Definitely nice stickers but I'm bettin' hard cash that nonya gots THE sticker.

The ultimate sticker....

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Isotopia
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Post by Isotopia » Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:17 pm

'Phat Mandy's Got A Posse'

Troy Van Berry
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So much mis-information, so little time

Post by Troy Van Berry » Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:20 am

Now come on here folks,just because someone has a different opinion, doesn't mean that it has to invalidate yours, so chill. Not that I have to defend a position that hasn't really been logically assaulted, but here goes anyhow. Where did you get the notion that I "hate" BM. I never said that now did I? And a troll ?, now thats a laugh, I'm using my real name now so I got nothing to hide (in fact it's just the opposite), but nice try. The reasons I will not be going are mostly external to BM, but a nice jump to conclusions, I'll give you that. It just so happens that The Mrs. & me started a family this year and we simply are focused in new directions for now. BM takes alot of energy(if your doing it right) and it's not a priority at the moment. I'll be back someday, after all I live just around the corner(Reno), but for now I just got other things to do. The last couple of years because of the pregnacy and the birth of our first son, Bryce, Kerry(my honey) really didn't get to come out but once. And quite frankly it's hard to be at a place like BM and not have your significant other there to share it with.
As for the event itself, we started comimg in '96, the last year of chaos camping, was blown away, and obviously hooked. I've had mostly a fantastic time and have no regrets. Like alot of others, I miss the amount of smaller installations that used to burn. Now the big burns seem to be all thats left due to gov. regs, so what can you do? My only burn was Hestia 2525 in '99, the last year you could burn directly on the surface, and it was an excellent time for all. In 2001 I got to show the Man in a different light with the "Luminator" project, problably my most rewarding, and the most work. The last 2 years with a Playa cruiser, The "Playa Serpent" in '02 and the mobile lighting for Rev Billy this last year( the "Crosstika")were alot of fun cause we were mobile. See here: http://images.burningman.com/index.cgi? ... _category=
We've been through it all( well most of it anyway) from camp blowin down to pats on the back from the hatted one for a project well done. We met and worked with excellent folks within the org and had a good experience all in all. Ive shown my paintings of the Man in BM art shows in Reno and LA, and have met some really cool people.
But with every endevour in life there are cycles, and I guess I've just been feeling the ebb and flow while at BM for a few years now( all the while having a good time mind you), sensing that all things will change with the exciting new additions in our lives. As for posting here on the e-playa, if you were paying attention you would know I've been around here for a very long time. I think for many of the same reasons as Trey. A funky place to seek like minds or argue with the ones you disagree with on a PC from all over the globe is just an amusing thing to do I guess. I just don't post as much as others, but I've had lots to say over the years, or maybe I haven't said a damn thing, who knows.

So surf on burners, I'll catch you on the next wave. 8)
Last edited by Troy Van Berry on Thu Oct 30, 2003 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
The art is in the details

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DE FACTO
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Post by DE FACTO » Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:35 am

welcome to the initiation.

I hear ya dood.

chill. I think (and I hope i speak for some of us) you have spoken your mind.

hope you take this as an understanding from me at least anyway.

The Burningman experience is a tough one to describe and you did the best that you could and i think you did a good job at describing your point of view .....not to dis us.

(if that made any sense.)

PEACE and LOVE dood.

come back again.
even though...........

Immersed
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Post by Immersed » Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:22 pm

Can I join your revolution? I don't care so much about Center Camp but I love Chai and sharing it with others. I cooked up two big ass coffee urns full of Chai for our decompression here in Kansas this year and folks couldn't get enough

You got a bona fide member of the Chai Consciousness Movement here. We hand out Chai in airports. J/K ;P
Seriously, I'm working on a fabulous project that will help me spread the Chai love to the masses come Flipside and BM '04. This could greatly aid the revolution!


I have many problems with Burning Man, my biggest complaint is with the Cafe selling chai (and other beverages). So I staged a protest and gave away free chai outside the cafe this year (last year I printed up "boycott center cafe" stickers). My problem isn't with people who disagree with certain aspects of the event, my problem is with people who just want to bitch, and do nothing about it.

rogue agent
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Post by rogue agent » Sat Nov 01, 2003 8:16 pm

Life is change. You'd think people who get together to build stuff with the intention of burning it down would get that.

RA

Kinetic II

Post by Kinetic II » Sat Nov 01, 2003 10:20 pm

Not to drift the thread but about the Chai Consciousness Movement...I never had Chai Tea until a visit to Center Camp in 02. Now I crave the stuff. But...there are hundreds of different makers of Chai stuff out there. Does anyone know what Center Camp uses to make their Chai, or could anybody recommend something better? I really hope someone answers as I'm craving the stuff! I NEED MY CHAI TEA!

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BurningShadow
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Post by BurningShadow » Sun Nov 02, 2003 2:35 am

From my time with burningman which yes has only been a few too little months, I have seen it rise and plummet faster then anything else. I look at my neighbors, burners themselves, nicely fit in their home nesseld in and all. I ask them questions from time to time they give me answers or even speak to me when they feel like it. the female looks at me with a strange gaze, the men well they are men. I suppose burning man isnt dead but more so the reason inside the people. Analyzing and studying my neighbors(5 ppl) along with the very very few I met through the eplaya Ive come to a sad conclusion that burning man is for me, it is. Just the people arent, at least the ones Ive encountered. I am an open minded person but I suppose I just wont fit anywhere nicely unlike my neighbors.

Burning Man is alive and kicking and will roar in 04

The people, dead, and hopefully the dead ones will stay dead and discontinue discouraging the new commers of burning man.

I was once told I have the spirit of a 'burner', the personality. Yet Ive never been. This is my burning voice.

*vanishes in blazing flames*
"Your solitude is welcome, your attitude is welcome, just let my shadow come along with complete embrace over my sight"

-ME DAMNIT ME!

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Isotopia
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Post by Isotopia » Sun Nov 02, 2003 10:46 am

K, I believe that chai's made down in Sant Cruz. I think most of the chai in the northern part of the Milky Way is made in Santa Cruz.

Immersed
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Post by Immersed » Sun Nov 02, 2003 12:03 pm

I'm partial to Oregon Chai, which you can find pre-made (just mix with milk) in some grocery stores and health stores in KS Kinetic. Did you drink any of the Chai at HullabalU? That was Oregon Green Tea Chai.

I'm interested in finding a good recipe to make Chai cheaply in bulk. Any suggestions folks?

Kinetic II

Post by Kinetic II » Sun Nov 02, 2003 12:46 pm

I loved HullabalU but I didn't have any Chai or hit any of the other assorted bottles that were there. As for Oregon Chai, I thought I saw that at Wild Oats so I'll check next time I go there. I've been meaning to get over to Whole Earth Foods too but I'm not sure what all they carry.

All I know is the Chai I had from Center Camp was damn good.

smac27
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Post by smac27 » Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:18 pm

I am from Philadelphia. I am an eagles fan (that is there football team).
Every year the eagles promise everything yet don't deliver. Yet every year. I waste 4 hours on a Sunday for 16-18 weeks in the fall. Why? Because I love them. Regardless of what they do they are my team. I share them with many others. Some people are not as nice as others, but they are allowed thier opinion. Sometimes I swear I am just a glutton for punishment,but sometimes watching them is sublime. I just love my Eagles. I hope this story means something to those who see burning man as "dead" .

Kinetic II

Post by Kinetic II » Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:40 pm

I may have just jinxed them, but this is a great year to be a Kansas City Chiefs fan. 8-0.

Imagigrl
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Each one believing...

Post by Imagigrl » Sun Nov 30, 2003 9:05 am

...knowing that love is to share... (The Beatles). Run, rabbit, run! Are you afraid that this feeling will keep spreading. That more and more will want the same warmth you have experienced through The Man? Do you think you will have to wait in line for that warmth when in truth it is all around you for the taking? The more souls that surround you the warmer the flame. Don't give up. Don't let go. It just takes some faith to keep the burn going up to the heavens and down to earth again. The future is not a whore. It is a kind promise and it will keep for always... so long as we- each of us -plays our part. Give and you shall receive in kind, ten fold.

Or as Dory ("Finding Nemo") would say "Keep swimming, keep swimming..." "Careful with that hammer... the sea monkey has my money... yes, I am a natural blue... are you gonna eat that?" Heheh ;)

Imagigrl
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"Just keep swimming... "

Post by Imagigrl » Sun Nov 30, 2003 9:12 am

You think too much. Just make it flow... nicely. One big boat and only our hands to make it go. Whew! I'm working up a sweat, yo. The closer you get to freedom the more frightened you feel. I will never understand the mortal mind... esp. my own.

Imagigrl
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Oh yeah, chai tea... I don't know... Santa Cruz sounds right

Post by Imagigrl » Sun Nov 30, 2003 9:25 am

...but, I've been so desiring it that I have concocted my own special blend.

Either use the "Republic of Tea" Vanilla Almond (you can find it at many coffee shops, health food stores, and at Cost Plus imports) or "Stash"Chai Spice Tea or a black tea then spice it up with allspice or pumpkin spice, vanilla extract, and nutmeg.

Use a kettle or sauce pot. Do not use a microwave. Water doesn't boil right that way. Steep tea good, hot, and strong. Up to 3 bags in a small kettle/pot. Sprinkle a little nutmeg and finely ground special herbs (if you so desire). Steep a bit longer. Keep it hot.

Add sugar (not too much, not too little). Add milk or cream or half n half or a really high quality soy milk until the tea color is a light flesh tone.
Sprinkle nutmeg on top and enjoy.

Make sure you have perfected the amount of sugar and nutmeg you use. It should be sweet and spicey, but not too overwhelming.

I have made this for many friends who were not into tea (esp. milky tea) until they had my chai. Now, when friends sleep over, they crave chai.

"Chai" means "tea" in Russia. "Vodka" means "water." I like the way those Ruskies think! 8)

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Last Real Burner
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blurp....

Post by Last Real Burner » Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:06 pm

I-I-I-I-uuummmm Image


'scuse me,
mr smith
"Do you know what happened to the boy who got everything he wished for? - He lived happily ever after".

precipitate
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Post by precipitate » Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:11 pm

> Do not use a microwave. Water doesn't boil right that way.

I'm sorry. What?

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BlueBirdPoof
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Re: Oh yeah, chai tea... I don't know... Santa Cruz sounds r

Post by BlueBirdPoof » Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:20 pm

Imagigrl wrote:...but, I've been so desiring it that I have concocted my own special blend.
Dangerously close to self reliance there.

XS
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Burningman or Burning Out?

Post by XS » Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:28 pm

I hear ya.

Sometimes repetition of any experience simply leads to burn out.

I grew up near Disneyland, and every year it seemed some 'other relatives' descended upon us for a visit cuz we were conveniently located to the 'happiest gift shop on earth.'

Year after year, the excitement waned and eventually it became not just a bore but a real loathsome drag. It truly was the same old thing, except different smelly people in line..... They seldom if ever changed the look of the park, the rides, the food, the theme, the music etc... (but that was back in the day y'undastand..)

As far as Burningman goes. Yeah there's some continuity from year to year, but alot changes - the look of the city, the art, the art car-mutated vehicles, the theme, theme camps, the music (?) etc... and even different smelly people too...

The point I guess I'm trying to make, had already been mentioned by many. The burn experience is what you make of it, and as all of us make the best out of it we can, it seems to get better or at least, different enough each year to prime my curiosity and compel me to make the trek out to the dust.

Some folks take time off from work to break up the routine... Maybe it's time to do something else and build up some excitement and momentum for (those familiar two words)..... NEXT YEAR!

Much love in the meantime amigos...
Too much is never enough.

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Ugly Dougly
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Post by Ugly Dougly » Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:38 pm

Plenty of people go to the Gilroy Garlic festival exactly one time in their entire lives, not returning to it because they've already seen it.

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