screaming "Down in front!"

skygod · Post by **skygod** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:55 am

The 2 times I have been to BM, '04 & '05, on the night of the burn, groups of people were screaming at other groups of people to "Sit down!", "Down in front!". Now some groups sat down, others did not and the screaming continued while the man burned.
Now I have noticed that when things of great magnitude are occuring, people have a tendency to look away and pay attention to small, petty things, as if the mind needs to take a break from the larger experience.
But what would make people throw away the all the good feelings, the intimacy, the camaraderie, the togethereness that they worked all week to achieve?
The things people screamed at each other were meant to hurt, and I actually thought people were gonna start throwing punches. All over whether they sat down or not. How ironic?
What do you do when that happens?

DoctorIknow · Post by **DoctorIknow** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:22 am

skygod wrote: What do you do when that happens?

Decide that next year, you'll watch the burn from some high structure in a campsite or theme camp.

As some in this very eplaya board like to use words to hurt, maybe even thinking they're contributing by being creative, this might not be the best place to ask.

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:24 am

Thanks for reminding me about this...I'm bringing a bullhorn to shout back with. (And to annoy a few people with this year)

Without the bullhorn I'd handle it by simply avoiding the front line area. Besides the fire conclave performance looks better from a distance, IMHO.

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:40 am

DoctorIknow wrote:
skygod wrote: What do you do when that happens?
Decide that next year, you'll watch the burn from some high structure in a campsite or theme camp.

As some in this very eplaya board like to use words to hurt, maybe even thinking they're contributing by being creative, this might not be the best place to ask.

The last 4 burn we have either watch from camp or from the Temple.. The Temple is a very somber place for the burn..

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:45 am

I watched from the temple last year and enjoyed it. That being said I'd highly discourage anyone from coming all the way out there. It's boring, it's not in where all the cool people are, nah, you don't want to come out there. Stay close to the man, forget all about the temple until Sunday.

SED · Post by **SED** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:57 am

I was one of the hecklers who was yelling at those who insisted on standing up. Unfortunately, it didn't occur to me until later that the heckling was more unpleasant and detracting than the rude behavior of the folks standing up.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:58 am

The ones that shout "Down In Front" are just betraying their Burn Jitters. Once the Man burns, everyone will be on their feet and no one will miss anything. Hollering like that is a verbal equivalent of standing up and obscuring the view of the dancing and capering about before the Burn. If you want to get up close, join the dancing.

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:13 am

We have really killer video that one of our campmates took of the burn, and it's disrupted by people yelling at him to sit down. The problem is, first, he beat feet out to both the man and the temple well before sunset so he could get right up front and finally get good video after many Burns.
He waited for about three hours.

Also, because he has a bad knee, he wasn't able to scrunch up like a contortionist.

So he gets there way early only to have people show up less than an hour before the burn screaming at him during his taping because, gee...they sat behind him. To complicate things, he had to raise his tripod to get the camera over the heads of folks who showed up at the last minute and sat in front of everybody, but naturally people screeched at him, not the frat-hippie jackass (only at Black Rock...) flashing peace signs at people as they trip, stomp and nudge their way to the front.

It isn't worth it. Next time, I'm bringing a stepladder so I can just watch from the rear. It's through respect of the innocent masses alone that I won't have a BB rifle and a sniper hole on an art car or something.

"Hey, man, sorry we're cutting in front, we just wanna watch the--" *THWACK*

"Down in fro---OWWWWWW! SOMETHING JUST BIT MY ASS!"

...which is not fair to the folks who got there early in order to have a good view (everybody should do it once) only to be crowded out by drunken jackassery. They -do- have a right to complain, hopefully without dragging everybody else's experience down with them.

"Hey, check out my neato laser. I'll shine it on the Temp-- Hey...my beer can just spring a leak..."

-gatt
Gentleman Vigilante Extraordinaire
The Z Team
"Pain is Rudeness Leaving the Body"

hunter S · Post by **hunter S** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:26 pm

I would suggest a partial solution could be...if the BORG Incorporated platforms for the fire conclave into the design of the structure.

If the performance was elevated to some extent, it would be much more visible from the back! Problem would be an accidental ignition of the burn

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:01 pm

hunter S wrote: Problem would be an accidental ignition of the burn :roll:

Rumor has it that this could be the year for that.

d6 · Post by d6 » Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:32 pm

1st burn i was in the middle
2nd/3rd right in front, down, even with my blown-out left knee pulsating in swelled knots of agony
4th/5th stayed in camp w/perfect view and scared away some would be theft-types
6th i watched this giant, human-spun whirlygig fire contraption go berserk between the temple and the man......and finally watched the burn from underneath a crane from a distance

variety is a good thing for this robot,and
this year who knows, but all i can tell you for sure is:
i'm not "yer bro"

d6, linoleum tile of doom

frenchblue1 · Post by **frenchblue1** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:20 pm

its to bad that the people who plan their day to get out there early and up front later get yelled at by those who delay and arrive later. It is one thing to be courtious but I agree that yelling at people to sit down just because they are in front is also discourtious.
lets all just sit around and get fat while watching it on TV

skygod · Post by **skygod** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:47 pm

This just HAS to be a metaphor for something.

SED · Post by **SED** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:59 pm

Maybe if we all brought knives to the Burn . . .

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:34 pm

First burn was last year. Got there nice and early and got a on-the-line seat, only to be told I couldn't use my chair (noobie mistake

) and I couldn't keep my bike next to me either. Then when I went to go lock it up, I found the lock had fallen out somewhere and was missing. Seriously debated leaving the bike unlock as to not lose my seat for my first burn. Logic won. Rode all the way back to camp and hoofed it back out on foot to the find that the people next to me had saved my spot for me!

Great view of the burn and wasn't choking on the smoke like the silly people that sat downwind.

(I was around 9:00)

Our area didn't really have any problems. People in front sat so the people behind could see and all was happy.

This year? 7 ft up in the air watching from my mutant vehicle.

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:01 pm

capjbadger wrote:First burn was last year....
...
This year? ... from my mutant vehicle.

*APPLAUSE*

The CO · Post by **The CO** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:07 pm

I have always been intrigued by this...

None of them seem to think about crowds and the way they move; if people start suddenly surging forward from behind, I want to be on my feet, not on the ground ready for easy trampling.

I usually just yell "Stand up" right back at them.

Personally, I like to watch the burn from far off, preferably on a tall structure, but the view from being in "the great circle" with fire conclave is pretty kick ass.

robbidobbs · Post by **robbidobbs** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:33 pm

I have watched the burn from the keyhole and from Gate. I wouldn't go jumping into the fray voluntarily.

BTW: the Rangers inside the burn perimeter are tasked with encouraging the first 5 rows of people to sit. If they are telling the folks to sit, and others are "helping" this effort, then the best thing you could do is to try to help IMO. That's their primary objective for "crowd control" for the Burn. Talk to a Ranger about this if you'd like, for verification.

smash · Post by **smash** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:41 am

It's true - I've worked burn perimeter the last two years and we're asked by the Ranger shift leads to have at least 5 (but really as many rows as possible) sit down so everyone can feel like they're getting a good burn experience.

And it's hard to do! Not everyone wants to sit, and some people get really grouchy about it, and some people get really grouchy about the people getting grouchy about it. But in the end it's really about having a damned good time and people are generally reasonable if you can just distract or entertain them long enough to diffuse the situation or get them to remember why they're there in the first place.

Burp! · Post by **Burp!** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:51 am

I miss the days when there were so few people, Larry would say "Who wants to light the man??" You'd walk right up to the man, light the fuse and run back to watch the show. Everyone had a good view. Yup those were the days.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:30 am

Why does anyone think it's easier to see over sitting people, if you're sitting?
Only a moron would sit in front of the crowd at the burning of the man.
I can't believe rangers would encourage it.
How many people would have to suffocate in a crowd to end burning man forever?
I'm six feet tall and the crowd picked me up off the ground in the crush.
People can be in trouble in a crowd and you could be close by and never know they were dying.

You should respect a crowd that size, the same way you would a wild animal or a loaded rifle.

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:24 pm

Yeah, you do have to be very careful in the rush to the man once it falls. I'm no weakling and I was still getting pushed around quite a bit as we were walking around the fallen man. Granted I made the choice to go in in the first place.

Getting out and fighting the flow of the crowd was the hard part.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:45 pm

Maybe I'll have a troup of precisions screamers out there this year.

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:51 pm

smash wrote:so everyone can feel like they're getting a good burn experience.

.

Wow. Talk about mission creep.

hawks · Post by **hawks** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:08 pm

What BM really needs is a jumbo-tron. Problem solved. don't know why they didn't think of that sooner. Cool! Thread over.

The Hawk Man

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:20 pm

gyre wrote: Only a moron would sit in front of the crowd at the burning of the man.

Hmm. Well, thousands of people seem to do it annually without too much trouble. Are you calling them -all- 'morons'?

Gee, I want to be in your camp.

-c

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:44 pm

Year #2 for me had me sitting right at the rope in front of the crowd. So what was that about moronic behavior again?

Crickets chirping....

Yeah, that's what I thought. Next subject.

Tiara · Post by **Tiara** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:41 pm

One of the many reasons the Rangers prefer to have at least the first five rows around the man seated is that it creates a buffer zone in which people who may attempt to run into the fire before the structure has fallen will be more visible. The last thing I think anyone out there wants is for someone tripped out of their mind to be drawn like a moth to the pretty flame and be horribly injured by the collapse of a burning structure. It would lead to significant injury or death for that person, and quite a buzz kill for the thousands who might witness such a thing.

Tiara · Post by **Tiara** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:43 pm

gyre wrote:Why does anyone think it's easier to see over sitting people, if you're sitting?

You might have just as much trouble seeing straight ahead through seated heads surrounding you as you might seeing through a standing crowd. But if the first several rows are seated, they should all be able to have a line of sight looking UP at the fire performers standing within the circle.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:54 pm

Yes, I think it is extraordinarily unwise to be the buffer zone for a crowd that could trample you.
Last year, I parked my bike, walked out early and found a place to stand up front. Much later, people showed up, sprawled out taking up space a lot of folks could have used and demanded that I sit down or move.
I was a moron for thinking that the effort I went to entitled me to any courtesy. But I would never sit in front of that crowd. So I moved.

So you've seen it done without a problem. So what?
I was in a crowd of a hundred or so that got out of control.
It was almost silent. None of us could ask for help because we were too busy struggling to breathe. The police were there and did nothing. Maybe they didn't realize how bad it was. They had a clear line of sight in daylight. How long will it take a ranger to realize people are in trouble in the dark? Will they be able to help at that point? Would you?
The crowd I was in was finally dispersed. There were a few people unconscious and some broken ribs. This was in an open area in daylight.
It could just have easily been a few deaths. Very few people were pushing forward. But it's very difficult to push back. Try stopping a crowd sometime. If you can't lean, you have no leverage at all. The crowd goes one way.

Burning Man probably won't get a second chance if people get killed this way.
When is the last time you went to a concert hall with festival seating?
After people died in Cinncinnati, the concert group I worked with was told- No crowd control=no insurance=no show.

This is not a reasonable way to risk anyone's life.

screaming "Down in front!"

screaming "Down in front!"

Re: screaming "Down in front!"

Re: screaming "Down in front!"

A Silent Crush