Arrival dates changed?

jgruher · Post by **jgruher** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:55 am

In previous years theme camp participants could arrive Saturday/Sunday to begin setting up before the gates really open on Monday. I have always arrived Saturday to begin setting up.

I have heard this year this has changed but for the life of me I cannot find arrival / early arrival information on the website. Can anyone help me answer these questions?

1) Can theme camp participants still arrive Saturday/Sunday without explicitly requesting early arrival?
2) If not, who do I contact to request early arrival?

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:37 am

Early arivals have been posted long ago.
It is my understanding that the gates will not accept anyone not on the list before midnight plus 1 Monday morning.

Ron · Post by **Ron** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:43 am

This year the org made two specific lists of folk who wanted to get in before Monday. List number one was for those trying to get in before Saturday and list number two was for folk getting in on either Saturday or Sunday. The deadline for submitting names for either list passed a few weeks ago and from what I've been told if your name isn't on one of the lists you won't be getting in before Monday.

Hope that was helpful;

Ron

phil · Post by **phil** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:01 am

Ron wrote:This year the org made two specific lists of folk who wanted to get in before Monday

I'll start another list - people who want to get in before Monday and have no chance whatsoever.

jgruher
Phil

jgruher · Post by **jgruher** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:25 am

Lame.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:23 am

It has to do with the BLM and fees. The event is permitted and paid for to start on Monday. BLM was complaining that it sure looked to them like the event was really starting on Saturday because so many people were allowed onto the playa then. So because of the increases in fees charged by BLM, it is important that the event start on Monday as stated in the permits. In order to do that, access before Monday needs to be limited to those on access lists.

BLM could monitor the gate to determine if people are being allowed in that are not on the access lists. If they determine that to be the case, they can call that "Event start" and crank up the fees. So yeah, there is no driving up on Sunday, claiming you are with a theme camp and cruising through the gate. You will need to be on an early-entry list. Those lists have already been turned in by the theme camps. If you don't know if you are on one, check with the person who takes care of your theme camp registration with the org.

And people that are on early entry lists this year because they are working prior to the event are being asked not to construct large structures prior to the event (pre-Saturday entries). Only put up what you need to survive pre-event. Shade and tent are fine but the 200' dome should wait until Saturday to start construction.

In summary: pre-saturday arrivals should not start theme camp construction the week prior to the event.
Pre-Monay arrivals need to be on the early-arrival list.

The preceeding information obtained from unnamed government sources.

Dr. Pyro · Post by **Dr. Pyro** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:29 am

Geekster, if you're correct, and I would imagine you are, then why don't they charge each and every early arrival $4 (or whatever the cost is deemed to be) per day in advance and just hand the money over to the BLM? That would eliminate one level of the bureaucracy while guaranteeing to the BLM that they will get their precious pound of flesh.

phil · Post by **phil** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:56 am

That would eliminate one level of the bureaucracy ... .

Eliminating a level of bureaucracy is an oxymoron. Bureaucracies do not permit their elimination. (Semi-serious on this.)

jgruher · Post by **jgruher** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:03 pm

Geekster - thanks for the explanation of the reasons behind this... still sucks but at least it makes more sense now!

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:04 pm

Pyro - in addition to the extra fees, there's also the hassle of trying to finish setting up the infrastructure with a bunch of freaks in the way. And the more people that arrive earlier, the more pressure there would be to get things set up earlier to support them.

jgruher · Post by **jgruher** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:31 pm

But a week just isn't enough! I need 10 days!

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:37 pm

Reminder, No road side camping/sleeping on hyw from Reno. I have camp/slept in a old gravel pit about fourty min out. On the road to/from Cedarville. One tree lots of space.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:41 pm

Dr. Pyro wrote:Geekster, if you're correct, and I would imagine you are, then why don't they charge each and every early arrival $4 (or whatever the cost is deemed to be) per day in advance and just hand the money over to the BLM? That would eliminate one level of the bureaucracy while guaranteeing to the BLM that they will get their precious pound of flesh.

Because there is more to it than simply the $4 fee. BLM charges other fees to the org for patrolling the event and there are fees that go to law enforcement once the event is officially underway. All of those other fees would also be extended if the event is extended. It is important that it remain a one-week event if the org isn't to be burdened with doubling a lot of other fees besides simply the $4 use fee.

Ron · Post by **Ron** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:14 pm

geekster wrote:....
And people that are on early entry lists this year because they are working prior to the event are being asked not to construct large structures prior to the event (pre-Saturday entries).

Really? News to me. Hmmmm.....

Thanks for the information!

Ron

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:19 pm

Ron wrote:
geekster wrote:....
And people that are on early entry lists this year because they are working prior to the event are being asked not to construct large structures prior to the event (pre-Saturday entries).
Really? News to me. Hmmmm.....

Thanks for the information!

Ron

Yeah it went out over the rangers' email list.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:25 pm

Went out on several different org lists. If you are arriving pre-event (as in pre-Saturday ... the week before the event) you should have gotten the word from the department you are working for. I personally know of two department lists where the word has been distributed and assumed the others either have been or shortly will be.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:32 pm

I believe the main reason for all of this is to keep ticket prices down as much as possible in the face of increased fees. So the idea is, I think, to allow ways for people doing work to still get on the playa early, allow people doing theme camp setup to get on play a couple of days early but to do so in a manner that doesn't trigger an early "event start" with BLM and cause the org to lose their ass in unplanned extra fees that would have to be made up with increased ticket prices in the future. While it is certainly possible that ticket prices can change anyway, it seems to me that the org is doing what they can to try to keep the costs down for everyone.

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:02 pm

Oh hell... I didn't even think of this till now...

I'm already approved and on an early arrive list (for sunday), but the person riding with me (she joined up to ride with me too late to get on a list) isn't on any list that I know of. I have to get in and help setup. Am I going to have to leave her at the gate for a day?

Kinetic IV · Post by **Kinetic IV** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:09 pm

It's not only the BLM fee that's the problem. Who wants to foot the bill for the additional JOTS services that early arrivals require? Someone's gotta cough up the cash. And if was the ORG member in charge of paying that bill I'd be throwing up many of the same restrictions on access too.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:18 pm

capjbadger wrote:Oh hell... I didn't even think of this till now...

I'm already approved and on an early arrive list (for sunday), but the person riding with me (she joined up to ride with me too late to get on a list) isn't on any list that I know of. I have to get in and help setup. Am I going to have to leave her at the gate for a day?

The rule is that if you are not on an access list and you arrive at or before 23:59 on Sunday, then you can't get in. There really isn't any point in having an access list if you are going to let anyone who shows up in anyway and that might be exactly what the BLM could be looking for. She might be more comfy in Gerlach than at the gate, though. Theme camps should have been made aware of the stricter early arrival policy and should have told their camp members.

CAVEAT: I am not an authority on the subject. I am simply repeating infomation that was put out to our theme camp by our camp liason with the org and what has appeared on a couple of departments lists that I happen to subscribe to because I will be working pre-event this year. Our camp whipper-snapper told us that unless we are on the list, we aren't to arrive before Monday.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:28 pm

I don't know if she'll be comfy in Gerlach either. by that time aren't all Bruno's rooms taken by LEOs? She might prefer to hang in Reno and take her chances with the Twin City surplus rideshare and pick up anything she left in your vehicle later. There are hotel rooms in Fernley too, if you wanted to drive there and pick her up once the gate opens.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:44 pm

Well, if he was getting there on Sunday and the gate opens Sunday night, I figured she could spend the day at the picnic table near the water tower and entertain folks looking at the webcam until dark and then hitch a ride out to the event and get in the gate when it is open.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:46 pm

I missed the "on Sunday" part. Yeah, a book and dinner at brunos. She'll be glad to make it into the city!

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:56 pm

(Keying up Pythonian accent generator)...

But I like Bruno's.

Then again, I like Spam, too.

bb

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:04 pm

I'm already approved and on an early arrive list (for sunday), but the person riding with me (she joined up to ride with me too late to get on a list) isn't on any list that I know of. I have to get in and help setup. Am I going to have to leave her at the gate for a day?

Yep, you sure are. If she isn't on the list she won't get in. The hammer came down pretty hard last year when this policy started to get STRICTLY enforced. There's no change in the policy this year.

BTW, don't even think of Bruno's. All rooms are rented out at least a week prior to the gates opening up. Dropping anyone off at the gate to wait it out (it happens) isn't kosher either. It makes the Gate people a bit *skittish before it finally pisses the off.

*too many stories to tell of folks who have this happen. Usually said persons are people that have hitchhiked in without money/food/ticket/meds. Enough actually that gate people assume that if you're hanging out in the parking area or near the ticket trailer that you're going to be a pin in the ass at some point.

lomaxfrog · Post by **lomaxfrog** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:48 am

Geekster is almost completely correct. Except that Theme Camps
that have been allowed on the playa before Monday 28th, are,
in fact, supposed to be building their camps. This is why they are
there earlier.

The restriction you are mentionning are for the staff and volunteers
(non theme camps), that are, because of their work building the city,
arriving before 8/28th.

Frog ([email protected])
BRC Placement

[quote="geekster"]And people that are on early entry lists this year because they are working prior to the event are being asked not to construct large structures prior to the event (pre-Saturday entries). Only put up what you need to survive pre-event. Shade and tent are fine but the 200' dome should wait until Saturday to start construction.

In summary: pre-saturday arrivals should not start theme camp construction the week prior to the event.
Pre-Monay arrivals need to be on the early-arrival list.

The preceeding information obtained from unnamed government sources.[/quote]

lomaxfrog · Post by **lomaxfrog** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:55 am

This is not that simple, and this is not even really the problem.
Burning Man is issued an event permit that starts on 8/28th (Monday).
Even if the date of the begining of the event was set earlier, there
would still be people who would like to come earlier to setpup.

There is more than "just" the BLM permit and fees: the city is not
yet "finished" and just does not have the infrastructure to support
a larger population.

We are also doing this so the participants who arrive on Monday,
when the event starts, have fair access to the land, and that there
is plenty of any kind of spaces available.

Finally, the reason of the bureaucracy, is very simple: there has been
too many people abusing (knowlingly) the system for their own
benefit. If you believe that it is painful for a theme camp to have to
give the names of the people arriving during the week end, think
about what it is to process them. There is no enjoyment doing this,
but this is better than turning people around, etc, etc.

Frog ([email protected])
BRC Placement

[quote="Dr. Pyro"]Geekster, if you're correct, and I would imagine you are, then why don't they charge each and every early arrival $4 (or whatever the cost is deemed to be) per day in advance and just hand the money over to the BLM? That would eliminate one level of the bureaucracy while guaranteeing to the BLM that they will get their precious pound of flesh.[/quote]

lomaxfrog · Post by **lomaxfrog** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:56 am

Trust me, if I could eliminate this own, I would. It is really, really
painful for us to do.

But that would require that trusting people would not be such
a naive wish.

Frog

[quote="phil"][quote]That would eliminate one level of the bureaucracy ... .[/quote]
Eliminating a level of bureaucracy is an oxymoron. Bureaucracies do not permit their elimination. (Semi-serious on this.)[/quote]

lomaxfrog · Post by **lomaxfrog** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:58 am

As I mentionned earlier, this is only for staff/volunteers.
Theme Camps are supposed to build their camp. This is why they
get in earlier.

Frog ([email protected])
BRC Placement

[quote="theCryptofishist"][quote="Ron"][quote="geekster"]....
And people that are on early entry lists this year because they are working prior to the event are being asked not to construct large structures prior to the event (pre-Saturday entries). [/quote]

Really? News to me. Hmmmm.....

Thanks for the information!

Ron[/quote]Yeah it went out over the rangers' email list.[/quote]

lomaxfrog · Post by **lomaxfrog** » Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:01 am

The best thing to do in this kind of cases is to contact IMMEDIATELY
the person who has granted your early arrival.

Frog

[quote="geekster"][quote="capjbadger"]Oh hell... I didn't even think of this till now...

I'm already approved and on an early arrive list (for sunday), but the person riding with me (she joined up to ride with me too late to get on a list) isn't on any list that I know of. I have to get in and help setup. Am I going to have to leave her at the gate for a day?[/quote]

The rule is that if you are not on an access list and you arrive at or before 23:59 on Sunday, then you can't get in. There really isn't any point in having an access list if you are going to let anyone who shows up in anyway and that might be exactly what the BLM could be looking for. She might be more comfy in Gerlach than at the gate, though. Theme camps should have been made aware of the stricter early arrival policy and should have told their camp members.

CAVEAT: I am not an authority on the subject. I am simply repeating infomation that was put out to our theme camp by our camp liason with the org and what has appeared on a couple of departments lists that I happen to subscribe to because I will be working pre-event this year. Our camp whipper-snapper told us that unless we are on the list, we aren't to arrive before Monday.[/quote]