Yeah, the trash on the road bothered me too. And then there was the rental trailer (on 447 North, between Empire and Nixon), just left abandoned on the roadside. I hope they catch the clown who ditched it and fine him an extra $5K.
Given the fact that 447 runs mostly through Native American territory, it feels doubly sad.
Since the exiting vehicles are basically stopped, would it be possible to organize a volunteer patrol that checks how secure the loads are?
EXODUS
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pbmaniac2000
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:22 am
- Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Yeah i don't totally agree on the whole turning 447 into a one direction road. Maybe it was just me, but it seemed that there was very little traffic on 447. It was more 4 lanes being turned into one in such a short distance. I spent a lot lot more time on bm "property" then i did on 447.
I did see some people tearing out across the playa and never coming back. I watched some of them very carefully and saw that they were going up to a playa access road. Smart people. I think i would do the same except i would drive around for days cause i wouldn't be able to find it. lol.
I did see some people tearing out across the playa and never coming back. I watched some of them very carefully and saw that they were going up to a playa access road. Smart people. I think i would do the same except i would drive around for days cause i wouldn't be able to find it. lol.
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Kinetic IV
- Posts: 2977
- Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:34 pm
- Location: Kyiv, Ukraine as of 10/27/06
The contraflow idea would be limited in scope...mainly for a couple of runs on Sunday and Monday to handle peak flow. Otherwise the current flow patterns would have to do.
Also Diane I didn't mean to ignore your comments earlier on Jungo...perhaps there's an answer for helping the counties find supplemental funding for making some basic improvements to it. The first part from Winnemucca to Sulphur is downright nice. It's that part along the base of the mountains that everyone sees from the event and another part between Trego and Sulphur that's hell.
Once I get over a good case of playa lung and feel better it's on my list of things to check into.
Also Diane I didn't mean to ignore your comments earlier on Jungo...perhaps there's an answer for helping the counties find supplemental funding for making some basic improvements to it. The first part from Winnemucca to Sulphur is downright nice. It's that part along the base of the mountains that everyone sees from the event and another part between Trego and Sulphur that's hell.
Once I get over a good case of playa lung and feel better it's on my list of things to check into.
K-IV
~~~~
Thank you for over 7 years of eplaya memories. I have asked Emily Sparkle to delete my account and I am gone. Goodbye and Goodluck to all of you! I will miss you!
~~~~
Thank you for over 7 years of eplaya memories. I have asked Emily Sparkle to delete my account and I am gone. Goodbye and Goodluck to all of you! I will miss you!
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puffycloud
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:47 pm
i joined the e-playa just to vent about this year's exodus.
this was the most poorly orchestrated exodus that i have been a part of in my nine years of attendance.
we left c and 4:00 at 11am, and did not exit the playa until 7pm. though the experience was enjoyable once i resigned myself to the long wait and went back into "burner mode" (busting out the shade and the booze and getting to know the neighbors), the whole experience was very disheartening. many of us had spent much of sunday and all of monday morning disassembling huge installations. many of us had been on the playa for almost two weeks. we had worked our asses off and were ready to go home. the total lack of traffic direction by the rangers felt like a giant "thanks for all the work, now fuck you and fend for yourselves."
we had contact via cb radio with people on the opposite side who were having identical experiences.
the problem was that at each intersection, cars were basically taking one-for-one turns. this means that if you were further back on the playa, you were facing more and more intersections with one-for-one turns. add to this the thousands of people who cut ahead to 5:30, along with people just driving across the playa and cutting in randomly, and you have one big clusterfuck. then people start running out of gas or overheating and the problem keeps expanding. someone with authority needed to take charge and stop the flow from 5:30 and 6:30 and let the side streets go for a significant period of time. during my eight hour wait, i saw only one ranger who directed traffic for 10 minutes before leaving.
i hope to see this issue seriously addressed in the next year. a huge swarm of pissed off and exhausted burners hitting the highway with a huge nighttime drive ahead of them is a very bad thing.
this was the most poorly orchestrated exodus that i have been a part of in my nine years of attendance.
we left c and 4:00 at 11am, and did not exit the playa until 7pm. though the experience was enjoyable once i resigned myself to the long wait and went back into "burner mode" (busting out the shade and the booze and getting to know the neighbors), the whole experience was very disheartening. many of us had spent much of sunday and all of monday morning disassembling huge installations. many of us had been on the playa for almost two weeks. we had worked our asses off and were ready to go home. the total lack of traffic direction by the rangers felt like a giant "thanks for all the work, now fuck you and fend for yourselves."
we had contact via cb radio with people on the opposite side who were having identical experiences.
the problem was that at each intersection, cars were basically taking one-for-one turns. this means that if you were further back on the playa, you were facing more and more intersections with one-for-one turns. add to this the thousands of people who cut ahead to 5:30, along with people just driving across the playa and cutting in randomly, and you have one big clusterfuck. then people start running out of gas or overheating and the problem keeps expanding. someone with authority needed to take charge and stop the flow from 5:30 and 6:30 and let the side streets go for a significant period of time. during my eight hour wait, i saw only one ranger who directed traffic for 10 minutes before leaving.
i hope to see this issue seriously addressed in the next year. a huge swarm of pissed off and exhausted burners hitting the highway with a huge nighttime drive ahead of them is a very bad thing.
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bradtem
- Posts: 502
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:27 pm
- Burning Since: 1998
- Location: Silicon Valley
- Contact:
Better Exodus Plan
This year I had both the bad and good fortune to miss the exodus line, but last year I had 4 hours in it and I know many had the same or more this year.
Last year I proposed an alternate system, attempting a simple way to give people exodus "appointments" so they could know when they would leave and thus could spend the time in the city, enjoying themselves, checking for MOOP etc. However, people did not yet find it simple enough as I proposed it. (Though those who got stuck in the line liked it much more than those who left at times with little line...)
Here's something much simpler, Southwest Airlines style. When you go to leave the city you would drive to the exit. If it's open, you would exit. Otherwise an exodus crew member would give you a card with a departure group number on it. (Perhaps 200 vehicles per departure group.) You would be told the current departure group, and BMIR or some other Exodus radio station would constantly update people on what group is currently departing.
When your group was called as coming soon, you would advance to the staging area for your group, which would be a modest parking lot with a sign with your departure group number. You would enter that lot and hand your card to the Exodus volunteer. Then, shortly, your staging lot would empty directly at full speed to the playa exit.
A few tweaks: When you came to get your card, the volunteer would radio to confirm handing you a card (there would be multiple stations) and there would be a 2% lottery chance you would leave immediately. This stops people from driving to get a card before they are actually packed and loaded. In thinking about the problem I've realized that if people get cards before they are done, they will feel pressured to rush clean-up to meet their time-slot.
During low periods, if the line is short, people could simply enter that short exit line with no card. As the line grows, exodus volunteers would then go to a point in the line and start handing out cards and directing people to the staging lot for the card they just handed out until they got to the greeter's gate, which would become a card handout station until the line shrunk again.
Just imagine if all that time spent by cars in line were spent doing clean-up and moop check. That's many thousands of person-hours.
Last year I proposed an alternate system, attempting a simple way to give people exodus "appointments" so they could know when they would leave and thus could spend the time in the city, enjoying themselves, checking for MOOP etc. However, people did not yet find it simple enough as I proposed it. (Though those who got stuck in the line liked it much more than those who left at times with little line...)
Here's something much simpler, Southwest Airlines style. When you go to leave the city you would drive to the exit. If it's open, you would exit. Otherwise an exodus crew member would give you a card with a departure group number on it. (Perhaps 200 vehicles per departure group.) You would be told the current departure group, and BMIR or some other Exodus radio station would constantly update people on what group is currently departing.
When your group was called as coming soon, you would advance to the staging area for your group, which would be a modest parking lot with a sign with your departure group number. You would enter that lot and hand your card to the Exodus volunteer. Then, shortly, your staging lot would empty directly at full speed to the playa exit.
A few tweaks: When you came to get your card, the volunteer would radio to confirm handing you a card (there would be multiple stations) and there would be a 2% lottery chance you would leave immediately. This stops people from driving to get a card before they are actually packed and loaded. In thinking about the problem I've realized that if people get cards before they are done, they will feel pressured to rush clean-up to meet their time-slot.
During low periods, if the line is short, people could simply enter that short exit line with no card. As the line grows, exodus volunteers would then go to a point in the line and start handing out cards and directing people to the staging lot for the card they just handed out until they got to the greeter's gate, which would become a card handout station until the line shrunk again.
Just imagine if all that time spent by cars in line were spent doing clean-up and moop check. That's many thousands of person-hours.
did anyone see the pair of Vanagons using a tow strap?
That's definitely on my list for next year; it'll save a lot of gas getting out.
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bradtem
- Posts: 502
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:27 pm
- Burning Since: 1998
- Location: Silicon Valley
- Contact:
A few other notes
The other minor factor with departure group cards is you want to avoid there being a "market" in them. The lottery instant-exit can help of course. One plan that was part of my old proposal was that the gate crew, when you arrived would give you an "exit ticket" on which they would write at least the last 3 characters of your licence plate, and tell you to put it somewhere secure. This exit ticket would be what you would trade for your departure card. This would mean only one departure card per vehicle, and thus make it impossible to just keep going up to get more cards to sell. Your plate could also be written onto your departure card, and the exodus crew could make spot checks of the cards, stuck-under-windshields, in the staging lot. That might be easier and avoids the issue of lost exit tickets.
There is the question of what to do with people who win the lottery but were not actually ready. You do want them to go back and clean up, of course. To do that you do need the exit ticket system because you want to bar them from getting another departure group card, they must now exit some time when the lines are gone. It may take some tuning to get the right balance here. Only a small portion of burners are the cheaters you have to worry about.
There is the question of what to do with people who win the lottery but were not actually ready. You do want them to go back and clean up, of course. To do that you do need the exit ticket system because you want to bar them from getting another departure group card, they must now exit some time when the lines are gone. It may take some tuning to get the right balance here. Only a small portion of burners are the cheaters you have to worry about.
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unjonharley
- Posts: 10434
- Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
- Burning Since: 2001
- Camp Name: Elliot's naked bycycel repair
- Location: Salem Or.
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bradtem
- Posts: 502
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:27 pm
- Burning Since: 1998
- Location: Silicon Valley
- Contact:
Who are you replying to?
A departure group system doesn't speed up the car flow much, as you note the road can only handle so many unless the northbound lane were to be closed to Nixon (where people could then split to take either the Pyramid way route or continue 447). That would be quite an effort.
The group system's main goal is so you spend the waiting time in camp with friends, or cleaning, rather than in a long line, overheating, burning gas etc.
The group system's main goal is so you spend the waiting time in camp with friends, or cleaning, rather than in a long line, overheating, burning gas etc.
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diane o'thirst
- Posts: 2092
- Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 5:04 pm
- Location: Eugene, OR
- Contact:
No, I meant 447, northbound to Eagleville/Cedarville, after the transfer station turnoff. I didn't go into Gerlach at all.JRoyale wrote:Not to be to fussy, but the road from last stop sign in Gerlach to the Burning Man turn off is labelled 34, not 447.
I'm only guessing at a 10 o'clock departure time, since I didn't have a clock handy. Could have been as early as 7:30 for all I know. But it only took me fifteen minutes to get off the Playa as judged by the CD playing on my car stereo.
[url=http://tinyurl.com/245sagf][img]http://tinyurl.com/2bbr28j/.gif[/img][/url][url=http://tinyurl.com/23753ws][img]http://tinyurl.com/2auqebj/.gif[/img][/url][url=http://tinyurl.com/m4y82q][img]http://tinyurl.com/l56rdn/.gif[/img][/url]
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bradtem
- Posts: 502
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:27 pm
- Burning Since: 1998
- Location: Silicon Valley
- Contact:
Another fair thing you can do
With a departure card system is give immediate departure cards to those who can show a car registration in far nothern California, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Washington and Western Canada -- the zone where the best route out is the northern route. There is no bottleneck there, and it's wasteful and unfair to have those people (I'm not one of them, except one year when I took the road to do a different return) wait in a line regulated by the capacity of the southbound road to I-80.
(I have always been told 447 south is the bottleneck, though it often seems as though the turn onto the Playa and the road to Gerlach are also a bottleneck. However, there are multiple exits to the playa available to the event so I am pretty sure they would use them if the bottleneck were there. Sometimes when people are hesitant about their turn in spite of the flag crew it does bunch up at the exit a bit.)
(I have always been told 447 south is the bottleneck, though it often seems as though the turn onto the Playa and the road to Gerlach are also a bottleneck. However, there are multiple exits to the playa available to the event so I am pretty sure they would use them if the bottleneck were there. Sometimes when people are hesitant about their turn in spite of the flag crew it does bunch up at the exit a bit.)
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diane o'thirst
- Posts: 2092
- Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 5:04 pm
- Location: Eugene, OR
- Contact:
That sounds sensible since Seattle has the second largest community behind San Francisco, and Portland has a thriving scene too.
However, not all camps are composed of people from one city. For instance, in our camp, one came from Oregon, two from L.A. and one from SF. We staggered our departures voluntarily and one of the L.A. people went with the SF guy. I left last because I stopped to get some sleep. We timed our departure to avoid high traffic hours deliberately.
What we did was sit and talk it out at Saturday breakfast. I said, "Is it too early to discuss our exit?" and we decided it wasn't. We started packing up stuff that was broken, used up, or of no use anymore — dirty clothes, etc. I pulled two days' worth of food, clothes and water and started packing the rest. By Sunday morning, I had a pile of packed bags stacked by the door, I loaded them out into the car then broke down my shelter. At six-thirty, we finished striking camp and did the MOOP sweep. After that, we finished loading and packing, and went to the Temple Burn. After getting back, the other fellas took off and I went to stay at a friend's camp.
Probably the best recourse is to keep an ear on the BMIR, find out when traffic is highest, and pace your teardown and pack-up accordingly, scattering departure times over a stream of three days (Sunday to Tuesday).
However, not all camps are composed of people from one city. For instance, in our camp, one came from Oregon, two from L.A. and one from SF. We staggered our departures voluntarily and one of the L.A. people went with the SF guy. I left last because I stopped to get some sleep. We timed our departure to avoid high traffic hours deliberately.
What we did was sit and talk it out at Saturday breakfast. I said, "Is it too early to discuss our exit?" and we decided it wasn't. We started packing up stuff that was broken, used up, or of no use anymore — dirty clothes, etc. I pulled two days' worth of food, clothes and water and started packing the rest. By Sunday morning, I had a pile of packed bags stacked by the door, I loaded them out into the car then broke down my shelter. At six-thirty, we finished striking camp and did the MOOP sweep. After that, we finished loading and packing, and went to the Temple Burn. After getting back, the other fellas took off and I went to stay at a friend's camp.
Probably the best recourse is to keep an ear on the BMIR, find out when traffic is highest, and pace your teardown and pack-up accordingly, scattering departure times over a stream of three days (Sunday to Tuesday).
[url=http://tinyurl.com/245sagf][img]http://tinyurl.com/2bbr28j/.gif[/img][/url][url=http://tinyurl.com/23753ws][img]http://tinyurl.com/2auqebj/.gif[/img][/url][url=http://tinyurl.com/m4y82q][img]http://tinyurl.com/l56rdn/.gif[/img][/url]
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Kinetic IV
- Posts: 2977
- Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:34 pm
- Location: Kyiv, Ukraine as of 10/27/06
One other thing to add...I came close to running out of fuel in 2002 and 2003 after leaving the event. Now I sit aside 10 gallons of gas just for Exodus....to make sure I have enough to ride out the gate mess and still make it in to Winnemucca. I don't want to have a good time at the event only to fight the anxiety of will I make it, do I have enough gas on the way out.
Also I had trouble picking up BMIR this year...maybe my radio was jacked up from a botched direct wire satellite radio install...did anyone else have trouble listening to it?
Also I had trouble picking up BMIR this year...maybe my radio was jacked up from a botched direct wire satellite radio install...did anyone else have trouble listening to it?
K-IV
~~~~
Thank you for over 7 years of eplaya memories. I have asked Emily Sparkle to delete my account and I am gone. Goodbye and Goodluck to all of you! I will miss you!
~~~~
Thank you for over 7 years of eplaya memories. I have asked Emily Sparkle to delete my account and I am gone. Goodbye and Goodluck to all of you! I will miss you!
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bradtem
- Posts: 502
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:27 pm
- Burning Since: 1998
- Location: Silicon Valley
- Contact:
Just pacing things
Alas that is the current system, and it obviously doesn't work for many people. Let's face it, we all know about playa time, and how notoriously bad we all are at predicting both when we'll be ready to leave for the playa and when we will be ready to leave it.
What matters is what route the car is taking. If the car is going via Cedarville, it doesn't have to be held back to contain the bottleneck to Reno.
It's hard to get a true enforcement of this, but plates on the car from the northwest is going to be a pretty good test. (Or show your DL if you live north of Redding, CA.)
What matters is what route the car is taking. If the car is going via Cedarville, it doesn't have to be held back to contain the bottleneck to Reno.
It's hard to get a true enforcement of this, but plates on the car from the northwest is going to be a pretty good test. (Or show your DL if you live north of Redding, CA.)
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unjonharley
- Posts: 10434
- Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
- Burning Since: 2001
- Camp Name: Elliot's naked bycycel repair
- Location: Salem Or.
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Kinetic IV
- Posts: 2977
- Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:34 pm
- Location: Kyiv, Ukraine as of 10/27/06
I had excess fresh water too but the gas situation this year was cutting it a bit closer than I'd like. I'm planning to boost the gas supply by another 5 gallons for next year. As the population grows I'm expecting the delays to get worse...I might as well plan ahead for it.
K-IV
~~~~
Thank you for over 7 years of eplaya memories. I have asked Emily Sparkle to delete my account and I am gone. Goodbye and Goodluck to all of you! I will miss you!
~~~~
Thank you for over 7 years of eplaya memories. I have asked Emily Sparkle to delete my account and I am gone. Goodbye and Goodluck to all of you! I will miss you!
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unjonharley
- Posts: 10434
- Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
- Burning Since: 2001
- Camp Name: Elliot's naked bycycel repair
- Location: Salem Or.
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Kinetic IV
- Posts: 2977
- Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:34 pm
- Location: Kyiv, Ukraine as of 10/27/06
More people than you think. Start posting, we're watching. Strike now while the fire's hot and the frustration is even hotter.unjonharley wrote:I have a simple exit plan in mind. BUT who the hell is going to listen to me??
K-IV
~~~~
Thank you for over 7 years of eplaya memories. I have asked Emily Sparkle to delete my account and I am gone. Goodbye and Goodluck to all of you! I will miss you!
~~~~
Thank you for over 7 years of eplaya memories. I have asked Emily Sparkle to delete my account and I am gone. Goodbye and Goodluck to all of you! I will miss you!
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unjonharley
- Posts: 10434
- Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
- Burning Since: 2001
- Camp Name: Elliot's naked bycycel repair
- Location: Salem Or.
JUst start the two lane exit at the 6:00. One from each side of the city. When coming out a o'colck street turn rigth/left and drive to the end of the line on the ring. road This would take fewer traffic controlers. More relief controlers. It get damn dusty out there.
PLaya running line jumpers beware: It "is" against the law to drive on the open playa without a permitt. Let them talk to the BLM.
Seeing that BM has to pay for law enforcement: Have them stand by for any and all disputes. WE buy em we own em.
By using this plan campers could see the wait time and decide when to jump in. If you "need "to get out sooner? JUmp in. If you have time on your hands? Have a cup and rest for awhile longer.
PLaya running line jumpers beware: It "is" against the law to drive on the open playa without a permitt. Let them talk to the BLM.
Seeing that BM has to pay for law enforcement: Have them stand by for any and all disputes. WE buy em we own em.
By using this plan campers could see the wait time and decide when to jump in. If you "need "to get out sooner? JUmp in. If you have time on your hands? Have a cup and rest for awhile longer.
Mebbe if y'all wouldn't take your time waking up on Monday, having a cuppa joe, sauntering to pack up the last bits LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE, your exodus wait would be shorter.
If you act like everyone else in the herd, then you get stuck in the herd and can only move at the speed of the herd.
Want out of the herd?
Stop mooing and change how you act.
We had no wait at all.
(and yeah, I saw the backup on Monday. I WORKED fuckin' exodus on Monday. ...and the tourists who didn't want to tie down their trash load correctly then made faces at putting their closed trash bags in their empty back seat were a dime a dozen. They thought I was a bitch for mentioning the $2000 littering fine. Hey, I'm Gate. I'm happy to be a bitch all over their trash-spewing tourist asses. Fuckin' tourists.)
Be nice to Gate. We put up with more shit than anyone else on the playa.
If you act like everyone else in the herd, then you get stuck in the herd and can only move at the speed of the herd.
Want out of the herd?
Stop mooing and change how you act.
We had no wait at all.
(and yeah, I saw the backup on Monday. I WORKED fuckin' exodus on Monday. ...and the tourists who didn't want to tie down their trash load correctly then made faces at putting their closed trash bags in their empty back seat were a dime a dozen. They thought I was a bitch for mentioning the $2000 littering fine. Hey, I'm Gate. I'm happy to be a bitch all over their trash-spewing tourist asses. Fuckin' tourists.)
Be nice to Gate. We put up with more shit than anyone else on the playa.
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Kinetic IV
- Posts: 2977
- Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:34 pm
- Location: Kyiv, Ukraine as of 10/27/06
Be nice to Gate?
I honestly tried to but when they search boxes that not even a Ringling Bros contortionist couldn't squeeze into, when they search 1ft x 2ft x 1ft battery boxes on RV's for stowaways....basically I understand the gate's mission but I feel COMMON SENSE was lost out there in their zeal to search for stowaways. And I didn't appreciate being passed off by 3 different gate staff so the first person inspecting things could go run off and talk to their friends making them have to start all over. Nor do I appreciate having $80 worth of antennas rendered useless due to their bull in a china closet searching ( I found more damage yesterday)....
Yes, I understand Gate is not there to be nice, but I'm still royally pissed about my gate experience this year. It sucked. And it didn't need to go down the way it did. And I sure as heck didn't need the smart assed comments about why I brought the gear I brought. It's none of your fucking business, do your job and then get the fuck out of my stuff. This group needs some oversight, some additional training, and a generous helping of good old fashioned COMMON SENSE...and maybe some training by LE on how to really conduct a search. The amateur searching I saw should not be allowed to continue. Do it right...and you'll cut the delays and damage to people's stuff.
And again...I know the Gate staff has a sucky job and I honestly appreciate what they do for us....but the status quo is flat out not acceptable.
I honestly tried to but when they search boxes that not even a Ringling Bros contortionist couldn't squeeze into, when they search 1ft x 2ft x 1ft battery boxes on RV's for stowaways....basically I understand the gate's mission but I feel COMMON SENSE was lost out there in their zeal to search for stowaways. And I didn't appreciate being passed off by 3 different gate staff so the first person inspecting things could go run off and talk to their friends making them have to start all over. Nor do I appreciate having $80 worth of antennas rendered useless due to their bull in a china closet searching ( I found more damage yesterday)....
Yes, I understand Gate is not there to be nice, but I'm still royally pissed about my gate experience this year. It sucked. And it didn't need to go down the way it did. And I sure as heck didn't need the smart assed comments about why I brought the gear I brought. It's none of your fucking business, do your job and then get the fuck out of my stuff. This group needs some oversight, some additional training, and a generous helping of good old fashioned COMMON SENSE...and maybe some training by LE on how to really conduct a search. The amateur searching I saw should not be allowed to continue. Do it right...and you'll cut the delays and damage to people's stuff.
And again...I know the Gate staff has a sucky job and I honestly appreciate what they do for us....but the status quo is flat out not acceptable.
K-IV
~~~~
Thank you for over 7 years of eplaya memories. I have asked Emily Sparkle to delete my account and I am gone. Goodbye and Goodluck to all of you! I will miss you!
~~~~
Thank you for over 7 years of eplaya memories. I have asked Emily Sparkle to delete my account and I am gone. Goodbye and Goodluck to all of you! I will miss you!
I feel for you Kinetic. I'll bring the bull/china and comment thing up to those wonkier than I, and at the next gate mtg.
...and you weren't searched by me, that's for sure. No 'personal' comments unless they're invited (or admiration for a particularly good packing job.) and I always ask where the fragile things are before climbing in (as do those I've trained.)
The small battery-box search is done 'cause a lot of RV's/trailers have storage spaces that stretch the entire width of the vehicle. Seriously. Common sense says that if some vehicles have 'em, we've gotta open all of 'em to see if they're pass-through too. It's SOP.
...and Gate's found people stowed away in boxes that were screwed shut with more than 20 screws holding the lid on, and one contortionist fellow in a mid-sized cooler, nevermind the fella under the bed the two people were screwing on - so yeah, we look in places a lot of folks wouldn't think make much sense.
No kidding.
We find 'em.
...and you weren't searched by me, that's for sure. No 'personal' comments unless they're invited (or admiration for a particularly good packing job.) and I always ask where the fragile things are before climbing in (as do those I've trained.)
The small battery-box search is done 'cause a lot of RV's/trailers have storage spaces that stretch the entire width of the vehicle. Seriously. Common sense says that if some vehicles have 'em, we've gotta open all of 'em to see if they're pass-through too. It's SOP.
...and Gate's found people stowed away in boxes that were screwed shut with more than 20 screws holding the lid on, and one contortionist fellow in a mid-sized cooler, nevermind the fella under the bed the two people were screwing on - so yeah, we look in places a lot of folks wouldn't think make much sense.
No kidding.
We find 'em.
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Kinetic IV
- Posts: 2977
- Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:34 pm
- Location: Kyiv, Ukraine as of 10/27/06
Mamagrrl, you have no idea how much I appreciate that reply. I've been on the boards for years now and I've heard the stories....I know you've found some strange stuff. My biggest concern would be to just take care when doing the search. I can get replacement antennas and cables...and I don't even mind a bit of surliness....in fact I kinda expect it. But this was over the top even for Gate and it's why I "fired the cannons" with that last post.
I'm tired of just bitching though...maybe there's something more we can do to make things easier for the gate. Perhaps start a thread in the tips and tricks section of the eplaya on ways to pack things that would make it easier for the gate, toss in some interesting stories to back up the points made, and then see if some of it could maybe make it into the "survival guide" for next year so we all benefit?
I don't want to see a repeat of this experience....whatever can be done within reason it's worth making the effort, at least IMHO.
I'm tired of just bitching though...maybe there's something more we can do to make things easier for the gate. Perhaps start a thread in the tips and tricks section of the eplaya on ways to pack things that would make it easier for the gate, toss in some interesting stories to back up the points made, and then see if some of it could maybe make it into the "survival guide" for next year so we all benefit?
I don't want to see a repeat of this experience....whatever can be done within reason it's worth making the effort, at least IMHO.
K-IV
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Thank you for over 7 years of eplaya memories. I have asked Emily Sparkle to delete my account and I am gone. Goodbye and Goodluck to all of you! I will miss you!
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Thank you for over 7 years of eplaya memories. I have asked Emily Sparkle to delete my account and I am gone. Goodbye and Goodluck to all of you! I will miss you!
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felony
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:03 pm
- Burning Since: 2002
- Camp Name: Barbie Death Camp
- Location: around
I myself have never had a bad time at the gate. Twice out of 5 times our RV was searched, but gently and kindly " is it OK if I look in here?" the other times no search. In 2004 we didn't even have to show out tickets! Not sure on this one as we bought tickets at the gate, maybe the ticket checkers saw us. Or not.
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dongiovanni
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:15 am
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puffycloud
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:47 pm
"Mebbe if y'all wouldn't take your time waking up on Monday, having a cuppa joe, sauntering to pack up the last bits LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE, your exodus wait would be shorter. "
sorry mama, i am sure you work very hard, but you can't generalize like this. we were up at dawn on monday breaking down our installation (after also working much of sunday). we weren't standing around picking our asses or chugging a few last beers.
sorry mama, i am sure you work very hard, but you can't generalize like this. we were up at dawn on monday breaking down our installation (after also working much of sunday). we weren't standing around picking our asses or chugging a few last beers.
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bradtem
- Posts: 502
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:27 pm
- Burning Since: 1998
- Location: Silicon Valley
- Contact:
Road east
I have never driven it but everybody who writes about it gives strong recommendations against driving it. That normally one must go very slow on it, so it doesn't save time (in spite of being 100 miles shorter), and that more often than not people get flats or blow suspensions.
But during Exodus I could see it actually being shorter at least when the wait is 3 or 4 hours, but the problems and disabled vehicles could make it not worth it even then, at least for Burning Man. Perhaps for people in 4WDs or ATVs with multiple spare tires.
You would have to cross the railway tracks though.
I tire of the protestations from people about how they managed to pack things to leave at a light time. Everybody knows this. Everybody would rather leave during a time of light traffic, but in spite of knowing this, it just doesn't happen. Camps take longer to clean than people expect. Contingencies pop up. Some people can't wait for the evening on Monday -- even though they know that leaving at 1 gets to the road at 5, and leaving at 5 gets to the road at 6 and leaving at 7 gets to the road at 7:20. They need that hour or more, or have convinced themselves they do.
I usually to try to leave at a good time. Normally I've left very early Monday or late Monday if I can afford the time to stay in Reno that night and don't have a rental return deadline. Early departures pass onto others the final burdens of camp cleanup and check, though.
In fact, the people stuck in the line at 3pm are probably the ones who stuck around while a bunch of people zipped off at 8am to miss the line, the good burners who moop checked their own camp and the camp of the people who left earlier. They deserve a good exodus plan.
But during Exodus I could see it actually being shorter at least when the wait is 3 or 4 hours, but the problems and disabled vehicles could make it not worth it even then, at least for Burning Man. Perhaps for people in 4WDs or ATVs with multiple spare tires.
You would have to cross the railway tracks though.
I tire of the protestations from people about how they managed to pack things to leave at a light time. Everybody knows this. Everybody would rather leave during a time of light traffic, but in spite of knowing this, it just doesn't happen. Camps take longer to clean than people expect. Contingencies pop up. Some people can't wait for the evening on Monday -- even though they know that leaving at 1 gets to the road at 5, and leaving at 5 gets to the road at 6 and leaving at 7 gets to the road at 7:20. They need that hour or more, or have convinced themselves they do.
I usually to try to leave at a good time. Normally I've left very early Monday or late Monday if I can afford the time to stay in Reno that night and don't have a rental return deadline. Early departures pass onto others the final burdens of camp cleanup and check, though.
In fact, the people stuck in the line at 3pm are probably the ones who stuck around while a bunch of people zipped off at 8am to miss the line, the good burners who moop checked their own camp and the camp of the people who left earlier. They deserve a good exodus plan.
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dongiovanni
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:15 am
[quote="mamagrrl"]Mebbe if y'all wouldn't take your time waking up on Monday, having a cuppa joe, sauntering to pack up the last bits LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE, your exodus wait would be shorter.[/quote]
What was that saying about "ASS U ME"?
I like the "you owe me" attitude... keep it up, mama.
Just FYI: I was packed and ready to go before 9AM on Monday (I was flying solo). But, since some total strangers had allowed me to camp by their camp, I chose to stick around helping them pack up. Did MOOP patrols all over the place. Helped a person who almost fainted due to exhaustion. Helped a couple get their rebars out of the ground, which was total backbreaking labor (but worth it). When finally everyone was all packed up, I left with them around 1pm.
In short: yeah, I "wasted" 4 hours doing backbreaking labor for people who, in all likelihood, I'll never see again in my life.
What was that saying about "ASS U ME"?
I like the "you owe me" attitude... keep it up, mama.
Just FYI: I was packed and ready to go before 9AM on Monday (I was flying solo). But, since some total strangers had allowed me to camp by their camp, I chose to stick around helping them pack up. Did MOOP patrols all over the place. Helped a person who almost fainted due to exhaustion. Helped a couple get their rebars out of the ground, which was total backbreaking labor (but worth it). When finally everyone was all packed up, I left with them around 1pm.
In short: yeah, I "wasted" 4 hours doing backbreaking labor for people who, in all likelihood, I'll never see again in my life.
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Rusted Iron
- Posts: 260
- Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:43 pm
- Location: Sonoma County
- Contact:
Well, we had a cup of joe and sat around to ease the load on the exodus, or so we thought...
Our camp packed most of our camp up, on Sunday, got up at sunrise on Monday to do the rest. (Including securing the garbage inside a trailer where it stayed until we took it to the transfer station in Reno.) After that, we armed ourselves with rakes and brooms and did a moop-patrol.
We were about ready to hit the road when BMIR announced that the exit was two hours and, if you're not in a hurry, go to center camp, have some coffee and wait out the worst part. I'm glad we did it, because we had a good time with our campmates for a few hours, talked with some interesting people and had an almost forgotten group picture taken.
When we got in line, several hours later, BMIR was announcing that the wait was 3 hours long.
(It took 1 and 1/2 hours and we were mightly entertained by the Flower and the Flytrap.)
Our camp packed most of our camp up, on Sunday, got up at sunrise on Monday to do the rest. (Including securing the garbage inside a trailer where it stayed until we took it to the transfer station in Reno.) After that, we armed ourselves with rakes and brooms and did a moop-patrol.
We were about ready to hit the road when BMIR announced that the exit was two hours and, if you're not in a hurry, go to center camp, have some coffee and wait out the worst part. I'm glad we did it, because we had a good time with our campmates for a few hours, talked with some interesting people and had an almost forgotten group picture taken.
When we got in line, several hours later, BMIR was announcing that the wait was 3 hours long.
(It took 1 and 1/2 hours and we were mightly entertained by the Flower and the Flytrap.)