help with water for the event

hammyrandom · Post by **hammyrandom** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:51 pm

im a first timer for the event, but not new to the culture or radical self sustainment.

im planning the trip for roughly 10 people, for a period of time before, during, and after the event.

after doing the numbers (after reading the recommended water consumption on the site) it would be amazing the amount of storage id need for that much water.

i hadnt planned on bringing it down with me (from washington state), but filling up somewhere on the way.

i was looking for any tips on some savy storage besides 200-300 milk bottles

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:22 am

The camp across the way from us had a couple of those heavy duty waterbags, we estimate about 300 gallons. They were a pretty large camp. The bags were there before the camp was and we didn't see what they came in on, but it had to have been a flatbed truck.

The way we handle water is, everyone brings their own instead of the whole camp bringing it in a lump. This usually takes the form of plastic carboys but I brought a bunch of 7-gallon water jugs for myself. I have a 20-gallon tank installed in the trailer I'm bringing next year, but it's a horse trailer. There's a dealer in Idaho that sells water tanks specifically for trailers and roofracks, they're called High Country Plastics.

Speaking from experience...I wouldn't put a tank of water in the roofrack. Makes it too top-heavy and unbalanced.

hammyrandom · Post by **hammyrandom** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:27 am

well everyone bringing there own isnt an option, as we are all planning on coming down together..

there will be ten people roughly, and if i did my math right thats about 420 gallons of water for 3 weeks.

im thinking buy a 500 gallon sotrage tank, fill it up in reno or nearby, and cart the water to burning man

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:26 am

Staying 3 weeks is unusual. You'll need to either be working for DPW, assembling/desembling an unusually large project, or be camping elsewhere for the other two weeks. Have you verified that you'll be allowed to stay for that amount of time?

That much water is a lot of weight, but not as much space as you'd think compared to all the other camp stuff you'll need plus whatever project you have. Your best bet would probably be a cargo truck for the water and gear and a 9 passenger van for the rest of the people. Be sure to have a plan for securing the tank in a way that it's relatively centered over the rear wheels but still accessible enough to fill/use during the week. Once it's full you will not be able to move it. If it start moving (such as if you slam on the brakes and it starts sliding) it will not stop. If you get a used tank be sure to test it out to make sure it doesn't have a bad taste.

You could also look for trailer-mounted tanks.

hammyrandom · Post by **hammyrandom** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:52 am

i say three weeks as an all around time sinc ei live in way up north in washington

i figure a 4 days drive down, a few days prior to event, a few days after event, and drive back up

so perhaps i overdid the numbers

but regardless, its still a large volume of water.

im planning on coming down in two vans, and renting, borrowing, buying something to the equivalent of a small uhaul trailer

Post by **AntiM** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:07 am

Please do a search of eplaya for the various discussions of early entry. Getting ten people in early won't be easy. Heck, we were the ride for early entry approved rangers, and I had a playa art installation, and we srill couldn't get in before Sunday midnight.

One discussion of many:

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=14169

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:48 am

hammyrandom wrote:i say three weeks as an all around time sinc ei live in way up north in washington

i figure a 4 days drive down, a few days prior to event, a few days after event, and drive back up

I drove down from Spokane, which is actually further than Seattle because of the way the roads zigzag. It took me about 14 hours and I did it one straight shot. It will not take you 4 days unless you really try to drag it out.

If it were more like 150 gallons, personally I'd just arrange with a local water company to get a bunch of the 2.5 gallon disposable containers, still in their cardboard boxes. They stack quite well. Coming from Washington you don't pass through much in the way of actual cities so it's possible but not as easy to pick up water on the way unless you go the long way through Reno.

You might keep a look out for a cheap used trailer in the offseason. You can sometimes pick one up for a little more than it would cost to rent, then resell it afterwards and get all your money back or more.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:13 am

Sounds like drive to Reno, THEN fill up on water, then do the event. If you're not on-playa then the water isn't an issue.

Depending on exactly where and how you intend to camp pre and post event.

hammyrandom · Post by **hammyrandom** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:08 pm

ok

so my previous water needs were having to bemet under some false pretenses.

i was under the impression that BRC was a little less temporary than it was.

but after getting my facts straight, ive found that id need alot less water....more around 200 gallons or so.

i think my groups new plan is to raod trip down from washington, do a ton of camping along the way. hit up burning man (10 new burners XD) and then road trip back and camp more. hit up sites along the way, etc

thanks for all the help

Cant wait till 07!

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:09 pm

200 galons of water is 1600 pounds. Ten campers about 2000 pounds. Camp gear, food, clothing and comfort gear X 10 another 2000 pounds.

A car is designed the carry four people w/lugage. Four people 800 pounds

hammyrandom · Post by **hammyrandom** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:07 pm

lets not shoot me down

a)iwho said anything about taking a car
b)im taking more than one vehicle
c) there is a nice invention of the trailer

lets not assume im a complete idiot :)

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:13 pm

wow now, WAs just giving you some numbers to work with.. You will have some pretty steep climbs.. Or. speed limit is 55.. Pulling a trailer in Ca. is 55.. I pickup 2 mpg at a steady 55 mph..

hammyrandom · Post by **hammyrandom** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:19 pm

no hard feelings

things will work out

no worries

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:30 pm

Seeing you want to go early. There are burners on this list that you can get water from no$$. Some places want a buck a gallon. I go in to Nv. by Cedervill..A burner there will give you water. There is some sort of camping in the town.. If you go Reno, burners there have water for you..One of the stopers in camping is forest fire season.. They can stop you for hurs or days getting around them.

thisisthatwhichis · Post by **thisisthatwhichis** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:34 pm

Hammy... link up with some local burners here in Reno (I'm one, but will probably leave to the playa before you get here). You can fill up your "empty" water containers from the garden hose... just for the trip out to the Playa, then fill up on the way out. Sounds like you have extra days planned, so Reno really isn't out of the way for you. PM me if you want some contacts.

hammyrandom · Post by **hammyrandom** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:35 pm

free water huh?

im sure ill get more info later on. but ive solved the majority of the crisis i had

thanks!

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:43 pm

hammyrandom wrote:i figure a 4 days drive down, a few days prior to event, a few days after event, and drive back up
so perhaps i overdid the numbers

I think you did. The Seattle crew take 1.5 days to get to the Playa. It only takes us (Eugene/Salem/Corvallis) eight to ten hours, laden. If it takes you four days to get down from Washington...what're you driving? A twenty-mule pack train?

You probably won't need water for the trip down. There's plenty along the way. Save yourself a couple hundred gallons and just buy the water.

Also...I stayed at the Eagles' Nest RV in Tionesta this year. They're an hour south of Klamath Falls on the way to the Playa. They have a deal where PNW Burners heading to the Burn can stay overnight and tank up their water tanks for free at their campground and their hospitality is top-drawer. Great place. You can decrease your dunnage from Washington by heading out with empty water tanks, go to Eagles' Nest, stay there, compress, rest up a bit and then tank up the morning you leave for the Playa. Then you only have to haul your water weight for two or three hours instead of a couple days.

http://www.eaglesnestrvpark.com/

Jordan 10-E · Post by **Jordan 10-E** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:12 pm

hammyrandom wrote:lets not shoot me down

a)iwho said anything about taking a car
b)im taking more than one vehicle
c) there is a nice invention of the trailer

lets not assume im a complete idiot

Just so you know trailers have weight limits too, sometimes much lower than you'd expect. A lot of that depends on the trailer. I have had one leaf spring snap one me in the past. It was a double axle so we were ok, but it was still dangerous. An earlier year with a single axle trailer we had to repack three times and sacrifice much stuff just so the trailer bed wouldn't sit right on the axle and rub against the tires. We ended up having to put wood blocks inbetween the two to make sure the bed would not rub the tires. Of course that put a lot more pressure on the axle and tires themselves but we made it ok that time. Just some words of hard earned wisdom for you.

hammyrandom · Post by **hammyrandom** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:39 pm

well i thank you for said wisdom, its pretty much what im looking for

my current plans [subject to change] was to rent a uhaul trailer [of the smaller kind] when i moved to washington from colorado, it did amazingly well with alot of stuff packed in it

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:40 pm

OH GOD U-HAUL RRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNN —!

Don't go in there, say "Burning Man" and expect to get anything but a last-minute bamboozle and theft of your hard-earned deposit. They've left many, <i>many, <b>MANY</b></i> a Burner without means to transport their stuff as late as the day they were supposed to leave. It's become a litany now: "Uhhhh, sorry, we don't have a truck/van/trailer for you."

pinemom · Post by **pinemom** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:05 am

Hammy! and that goes for ANY rental company...NEVER I repeat NEVER tell any rental companies that your going to Burningman! They just wont rent to you or they will over charge you up the kazooooooo!

Ron · Post by **Ron** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:00 am

Well, yes and no. The truck rental places get told we're going to Reno but for renting construction gear and equipment (scaffolding, heavy tools, industrial generators and electrical equipment) we've always told them the truth and never had any problems. In fact it's helped as some of them have had some great advice for how to take care of their stuff on playa.

BTW, we've found we save major money on our truck rental fees by renting the rigs one way. We used to rent them here in Seattle for the entire two plus weeks we'd be gone. They'd haul stuff on the playa, sit in the dust for a week and a half, and then haul stuff back. So for seven plus days we were paying rental fees for the privilege of getting our trucks *really* dusty.

Now adays we rent them, "one way," from Seattle to Reno and then Reno to Seattle. We drive down, unload, and then take the trucks into Reno. After the event we send a crew into town, pick up our trucks, return to BRC, load up, and drive to Seattle where we return the trucks. It requires a national rental chain with outlets both in your city and in Reno (U-Haul and Budget are the two options we've got and Budget is better) and does add a bit to your gas bill. But the savings in reduced rental fees has been sizable for us. Not to mention the reduced cleaning effort since the rigs aren't sitting on playa for a week.

Ron

trae · Post by **trae** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:01 pm

i had a similar plan for 2006, everyone coming together and lumping supplies together and such. of course, as plans do, things fell apart (though im glad, it worked out better)... but thats not the point.

the plan included using one large container for water. it seems the logical answer. however, someone mentioned one thing that changed my mind: what if your one single source of water gets contaminated somehow? not even undrinkable, if it tastes bad your not as likely to stay as hydrated as you need to.

smaller containers worked out better, minimized the risk, and could be distributed better for weight. i brought a bunch of 2.5 gallon containers, and a few flats of water bottles (which worked out well as cups too, sport-top, so no dust in my margarita, and no mess in my backpack :) )

just a thought.

Post by **AntiM** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:20 pm

And if you have one large container of water, once you fill it, you ain't moving it, so you have to have a handy way to get in and out of your trailer, and a sanitary pump to get it out of the container, and don't forget and leave the pump going and flood your trailer.

We've gone trae's route, with an assortment of water containers, 20s 5s, 2.5s, one gallons, one liters, and yes, smaller water bottles. Smallish bottles are great in a communal cooler so you can hydrate your guests easily. The one gallon jugs make good haul the greywater which didn't evap home in containers, bring a funnel.

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:09 pm

(Note to self: rethink idea of buying one huge water container-- it might not be as clever as you thought!

)

B.

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:29 pm

I have found 1 case of liters/pints, 3-4 2gal cubes, and 2-3 6gal jugs to be a goodly amount and distribution of water. Fairly easy to pack and carry (distribute). Easy to load/unload/keep out of the sun. And all of your eggs are not in one basket (what if a big drum goes bad?). The only real issue is the packaging (moop), and PVC at that....but it is also easily recycled.

The liters get drank en-route and are handy for giving to others during the week (also good to keep one by the bed for late night hydration). Bring a few to a dance camp and see what I mean....

The 2gal cubes are the primary camp water source for cooking and canteen refill.

The 6gal jugs are for showers, cooling mists, squirt guns, etc. Also serves as extra water if needed.

If you do go w/ 1 big container, remember to clean it before really well (rinse even better).

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:52 pm

I use my tac bag, tool bag and gas cans to balance the trailer. For 07 I will have 2gal. gas cans... The water is in 2&3gal containers.. They come to me as cat litter jugs.. Must be getting old or smarter.. Those big containers are ass buster.