can i burn propane from emt conduit?

uncle sticky · Post by **uncle sticky** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:42 pm

I'm looking at building a structure that involves curved pipe sections drilled with small holes to emit propane gas which will be lit for fire effect. Can I use emt conduit for this? It seems easier to work with than black pipe. suggestions?

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:35 pm

EMT is zinc coated. I'm pretty sure the propane flame is hot enough to burn that off and you really really don't want to be breathing those fumes...

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:25 pm

Funny.... I've seen it run through bare flex conduit.

Well, not exactly "seen" it, propane being a colorless gas.

http://images.burningman.com/index.cgi?image=1578

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:22 am

Hmmm... you *could*, however I would be concerned about apeture enlargement during use; that, and not having the thing backflash through the tubing. How well would it handle the system pressure? How would you keep the fire out of the pipe?

I'm thinking, the fire "curtains" I have seen have used black pipe with burner nozzles tapped and drilled into the pipe. I haven't seen one that runs flame directly on top of the pipe itself, again, there's a backflash element which you have to be cognizant of, and you *really* don't want that flame going bact to (and beyond) your regulator system. Hella boom.

Post by **AntiM** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:18 am

So, is there basic ifno or a primer of how to with propane? I kept my old 70s era gas range, about five feet tall, top and bottom ovens, four burners; I was thinking of removig all the glass (doors, lights) and cutting designs into the sides and weird metal sculpturs in the ovens. I'd run it on propane and have added jets so the whole thing would blaze not just out the burners and oven jets, but out the top and, well, I'm not sure. Call it Hell's Kitchen. The thing is, I have neither the expertise nor even the muscle to make it happen.

Thoughts on resources?

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:55 am

One observation about EMT- It rusts. Yeah, it's galvanized, but that won't STOP it from rusting, especially where there's lots of condensation like with propane widgets. Start drilling holes in it and add fire, (which is just REALLY fast rust....) and things start falling apart. I use coated corrugated roofing for bonfire containments, and dissolve whole sheets in mere months.

Dustdevil · Post by **Dustdevil** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:39 pm

The primary problem with using EMT is the connections. The issue of the zinc based galvanizing is the second problem. It will be less work to use black pipe and thread the sections together than making connections that will work with propane. You can drill directly into the pipe for your outlets. I would suggest wrapping the outlet hole with STAINLESS steel wool. It will allow the flame to be more wind resistant. You will need to have a 1/4 turn ball valve near the propane source for rapid shut down it there is a problem. Naturally an adjustable regulator will be needed. Also, if you have too many jets and the propane is flowing too swiftly, your tanks will freeze and the pressure will drop.

willowRage · Post by **willowRage** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:35 am

I strongly encourage you to contact the Performance Safety Team (PST). PST is headed by licenesed pyrotechnicians with many years of experience.

If you wish to use any kind of flame effect on the playa you have to get it cleared with PST prior to using in Black Rock City. Failure to get a laminate from PST and using your flame effect could end by having a unfavorable encouter with a sherrif or BLM. Our permit from BLM requires that we have a formal evaluation and approval process for flame devices and law enforcement does check.

Before you get to Black Rock you can talk with PST about your design and they can give you recommendations. Since this is the same group of people who will be reviewing your design when you arrive it's best to talk to them before you bring it should you need to make structural changes.

http://www.burningman.com/installations ... s_art.html

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:54 am

for art installations and performances, not for personal flamethrowers. but for art vehicles with flame devices, do the dmv use people from pst?

willowRage · Post by **willowRage** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:28 am

Correct about the personal accumulators. The OP did not clarify the overall design or purpose so better to err on the side certainty.

The DMV handles vehicles only. The DMV can not issue laminates for anything related to fire. The DMV will issue a day/night sticker for your vehicle only. If the mutant vehicle has a flame effect the DMV will direct you to another office around the corner called â€“ The Artery. If your flame effect does not get a laminate from PST you can still drive the mutant vehicle but you can't use the flame effect.

The Artery handles art placement and fire related issues. You can find The Artery in Center Camp. There you will be able to talk to PST about certifying your fire art or flame effect.

Prior to getting to Black Rock you can email PST with questions

Open Fire: fire-art (at) burningman (dot) com
Flame Effects: flame-effects (at) burningman (dot) com
Pyrotechnics: pyro (at) burningman (dot) com

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:21 pm

thanks for that! i always thought it a good idea for people to have some place to go they can ask questions about the different groups, proceedures and such.. but with personal interactions where others can fill in the gaps and relate thier encounters.

Dustdevil · Post by **Dustdevil** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:22 pm

Actually the FE (flame effect) inspection is done at the DMV. Each evening when they begin doing night lic inspections at least two PST members are at the DMV doing FE inspections. When the inspection is complete, a sticker is issued for the vehicle and a laminate is issued to the artist. When the DMV apps are filled out, marking the box that says flame effects triggers a series of other questions. Before the app is processed through the DMV committee I look it over and approve the FE portion. If I have questions about the FE I will contact the artist and sort out any questions I may have. The artist are also free to contact the PST to have any specific questions answered. This process works very well. I have personally never had to reject any flame effects on the Playa. There have been a few that needed minor changes, but for the most part each artist understands what safety items we need to see. The three of us that work DMV in the evenings have other inspection duties during the day. Pyroboy also works the pyro team and loads the fireworks into the Man on Saturday.