SED wrote:
Of course, nobody understands another's death. My point is that ZB didn't understand these climbers' lives before he began to pass judgement. Before any facts were known, ZB assumed that these men were vacationing twits from afar who disregarded the risks and their own limitations. No less a figure than Jim Whittaker has now affirmed that they were adequately trained and equipped, and behaved well under pressure.
Big waste, you say. I agree.
SED, you were recently seen around the eplaya grousing about the lack of stimulation lately. Maybe I can give you a bit of a challenge for a good answer that gets at the heart of this thread's drift. You sometimes write some nicely coherant comments, so here's the classic question for us risk takers. Why? You see I don't completely disagree with Zaphod. Those guys were taking a risk from what I understand. Winter can often be the best time to do some of those climbs (like Yokum ridge when it's covered in rime ice.) But it is definitely more dicey. From what I've noticed, most risk takers generally hedge when confronted by the real possibility that their sport could get them whacked. I don't place too much faith in what Whittaker has to say. He always sounded a little "rah rah, go team!" to me. The best commentary about risk taking I read came from Chounard, who questioned how much of his successes was pure hubris and how much being just plain good.
When I was in college, some guy who really seemed pretty clueless claimed that I had a death wish underlying my desire to climb. At the time, it seemed assinine because I couldn't see any such thing in myself. But coming very close to dying (or at least having a very bad close call) in 2001, I actually finally understood what a death wish really is. You see when that guy first made that claim, I didn't know how to divide out different parts of myself and see that they actually have their own voices and agendas. I finally realized that the "death wish" is that part of any of us that wants to feel like a victim to their life, feeling like you'll never reach your dreams and will always have to deal with too many disasters, dissapointments and frustration. That part of me, was OK with throwing in the towel. It was like a drain on my psychic energy, a ready slippery slope when things fell apart, falling into despair. So.... that part died. No shit. It was kind of an epiphany. But now it seems I can't push it so hard. (On the other hand my life is also really coming together these days, so it makes me wonder.) But I think back now to some of those times.... Holy shit! One time putting up a new route in the Cirque of Towers, leading 10b or c (pretty much my limit then), about 90 feet out from my last piece of manky pro which was the only thing between me and my belayer.... And I felt like Jesus walking on water. I was ON that day. Now the question is - was that delusion, hubris.... or was I really on? Other times when things just seemed to go beyond... blows the mind. (And then there are other times when I'm totally nervous and start walking around all kinds of rapids!)
And this is part of my thoughts about all of this. We climb (or kayak, or?) for some obvious reasons (feels good doing something so physical, the places are beautiful, the challenge, etc.) But why do we need to take it close to the edge? There is something about the intensity that shows us absolutely how alive we are. But do we get addicted to that particular need for the edge because we don't know how to feel that intensity in enough other parts of our lives? (That was one of the things that came out of my "epiphany" - being able to really look that square in the face.)
Oh yeah, Cowboy, I'm curious what you might have to say about this as well since you're another climber/philosopher.
