Earth anchors for your shade and tent

phil · Post by **phil** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:07 pm

http://67.130.82.133/

Despite the dotted quad, this is a real site with a couple of different anchoring systems for stuff.

"The Penetrator" is an 18" screw, and the "Earth Anchors" look like arrow heads that you drive into the ground (at, let's say 90 degrees to the surface), then lift straight up on to pivot the head from 90 degrees in the ground to 180 degrees (there's a photo instruction if you can't figure out my description -
http://67.130.82.133/index.cfm?fuseacti ... N=56220559

Depending on soil-type, the company claims each anchor withstands from 600 lbs to a ton of force. (I can't figure out how you get the arrowheads out, so I've emailed.)

The arrow heads look much handier than rebar, and the screws look like they'd be easier in and out than rebar if you bring your battery-powered drill to drill it in and undrill it from the ground, although you could use a T-bar for the same effect by hand. Penetrators are $20 a piece, though. Arrowheads are $9 each, minimum order of 10.

Louise and I could use the arrowheads off the playa for guying masts and shade structures during events we volunteer for as ham radio operators. Having something lighter and more easily transportable than rebar would be a boon for us.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:27 pm

So to remove the arrow anchors, you just tie the cable onto your bumper and drive away, right?

phil · Post by **phil** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:23 pm

Better the arrow anchors that a 2-ft piece of rebar coming through your rear window. :->

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:47 pm

I think Bob's point was how the hell do you remove them? According to the site:

the distinctive design of the MIL-Spec American Earth Anchor requires no pre-drilling or digging and provides up to 14,000 pounds of holding power

So it would be pretty hard for the average person to get them back out of the playa once they are installed.

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:26 pm

With similar devices wiggling them helps ease them out. Sure it can hold a static force of lots of pounds, but the properties of dirt cause it to crumble when jiggled. Probably the kick then pull, kick then pull method.

phil · Post by **phil** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:41 pm

geekster wrote:I think Bob's point was how the hell do you remove them?

As I said in the original post, " (I can't figure out how you get the arrowheads out, so I've emailed.)"

Sorry. I should have put it in bold or something. Maybe in red. No, wait - bold _and_ red. And big.

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:51 pm

""The Penetrator" is an 18" screw, and the "Earth Anchors" look like arrow heads"

Right banging on and reverse screwing will remove the "penetrator" but I'll bet there is NO WAY short of digging down to them to consistantly remove all the parts of the "earth anchors". They are meant to be permanent, yes?

Look closely at the design...it is an arrow head with a cable attached. The arrowhead and cable are driven into the ground with a shaft that fits onto the arrow. Then the shaft is removed and when you tug on the cable the arrowhead tilts in the ground and locks. Nice, but looks like a horror to use as a playa temporary anchor. Don't go there!! Pulling straight up on the cable with a backhoe may bring up arrowhead and a column of playa (that would have to tamped back in) but likely the cable or its attachment to the arrowhead may break...leaving the arrowhead in the ground. Sure you could dump some water down the cable hole to loosen things up but then you have mucky playa to tamp back in...bleah.

I'd say stick with re-bar or get the screw-in anchors if you must be fancy for removeable anchors. I love the sound of rebar being driven into the ground on that first Monday.

The CO · Post by **The CO** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:28 pm

I have worked with the arrowhead earth anchors for about 3 years now at work. They have great holding power, but you need a jackhammer or Bobcat with jackhammer attachment to put them in, and a backhoe to take them out. Using them on the playa would not be an option. You would have to dig a massive hole to get them out, and yes, they are pretty much a one time use/semi permanent item. Getting them out requires near destruction of all earth around them and the threaded rod.

I reccomend military 12" v-stakes for smaller structures. I have used them for 7 years on the playa for everything from personal tents to GP medium (16'x32' army surplus). As long as you drive them right, they work great, easier to remove than rebar, about $.75-$2 each depending on your source.

phil · Post by **phil** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:15 pm

> but you need a jackhammer or Bobcat with jackhammer
> attachment to put them in, and a backhoe to take them out.

Dang. And they make it look so easy on the Web site!

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:20 pm

"I reccomend military 12" v-stakes for smaller structures."

That's what I have been using. Also, I have been using the orange "mega stakes" or something close to that name sold at Home Depot. They have worked better than rebar.

The CO · Post by **The CO** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:04 pm

phil wrote:Dang. And they make it look so easy on the Web site!

Sorry. They are easy with the right tools and patience, but...

We've been using them as anchors for the largest touring tent in North America, and they hold like nobodys business. But it takes about 16+ hours to remove them (with backhoe), and only the arrowhead part is reuseable.

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:59 am

2 foot long rebar and a bend works great for the playa. We used 8 to hold down our 20x20 carport and it was always completely solid. The key to getting them to work best is to have your structure pulling them against the dirt, rather than straight out of the dirt. So bring the rope down to the ground at a 45 degree angle, then put your steak in perpendicular to the rope. If you're going with something that will catch more wind than that you may think about heavier steaks or a redesign.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:15 pm

The penetrator looks real good. But a little over kill for my needs .. A cheap rotohammer drill(HF) and a inverter. Hmmmm. Start you van,plug in you drill and screw'em in. It sounds inviting.

phil · Post by **phil** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:36 pm

> Start you van,plug in you drill and screw'em in. It sounds inviting.

Yeah, I think most people on this board are young and healthy, so rebar and such are not something they think is difficult. With my soft tissue injuries and joint damage (not to mention my age), it's a problem for me - more getting the rebar out than hammering it in.

It's great to get the answer though on the arrow head - the AEA site makes it look easy to insert, but they don't mention removal - so now I know they won't be easier than rebar.

Interestingly, the AEA site mentions using the arrowheads for temporary structures. I guess they assume you have a backhoe? C'est la vie.

The CO · Post by **The CO** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:49 pm

Ya, the arrowheads are technically a temporary device. Tho' we've left a few in the ground in places across the US & Canada...

Post by **mdmf007** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:07 pm

Best tent stakes I have ever used are the pins used to hold jersey barriers in place, They are 1.25 inches sold steel, 3 feet in length, and look exaclty like a double headed nail.

you can get them for free usually from your friends that work for DOT

later all.

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:06 pm

If you have trouble getting them out you can bring a steak pull. Basically something to grip on with a long lever. Just push down and they should easily come out with little effort. I know they sell them or you can make something.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:19 pm

Stick to 9" or 12" aluminum military surplus tent stakes for small stuff -- they're perfect in the playa because they spread the load a couple inches wide. Concrete form stakes or car axle shafts for bigger stuff. Rebar is just fucking annoying except as a last resort.

The arrow anchors would be great if you knew ahead of time that you had access to a Hyster to pull them out, that the cables would never snap and shoot straight into somebody's face, and that they could be pulled cleanly 100% of the time.

They're great for guying off trees, though, so I'd bet the fuckwits putting up all the rainforest installations at Burning Man this year will be using tons of them.

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:21 pm

Rebar is just fucking annoying except as a last resort

What is it about it that you don't like? Too much work? It does take a little pounding to get them in but it's nice to know I don't have to worry about the winds.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:50 pm

Because since '97 I've seen so much of it still stuck in the ground after you people leave. Other stakes hold better and are much easier to pull, and for the most part stiff enough that you can drive them flush, not worry about them tripping anyone, and still pry them out easily with a bar and/or visegrips.

Physically, rebar is designed to be cast in fluid concrete, not pounded into dirt. Think about it for a second. Smooth stakes work better.

phil · Post by **phil** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:51 pm

> What is it about it that you don't like?

I don't speak for Bob, but my problems are as follows:

I tore a muscle in my back 20-odd years ago. No problem for years, but as I age and my stomach muscles have sagged out, they no longer take up the slack. I can't bend over for any length of time without risking horrible muscle spasms, and I can't lift any weight (not even supporting my own self) when bent over.

Driving in rebar is not that big a problem, but I either kneel or squat to keep my back vertical. Pulling it is a problem. Vice grips work wonders, but I have to be very careful to remain vertical and not bend over while I pull on the rebar. After a week sleeping on an air mattress, my back is not in great shape, and I'll have been stretching it out three times a day. If I get my back into pulling the rebar out, it wrenches me into spasms.

I bundle the rebar to carry, and I group it in 3 or 4 batches, but they get heavy lifting them into the back of the van. I know there are stake pullers (or steak pullers, depending on your beef), but I get into the problem of how much do I want to carry, and is it really better hauling that sucker around to all the rebar to pull it? Again, I can't pull with my back, so the leverage has to be set for my arms. One of my shoulders has a tear, and my joints are also worse for the wear from growing up on a farm with manual labor. Carrying heavy stuff around hurts, and it hurts worse at the end of the Burn. (Not complaining, just stating the fact - it's well worth it so far, but that's going to end in a few years.)

The arrowheads looked much easier to carry around than rebar, although I couldn't figure out how to remove them. That's been answered, though.

Rebar, with whatever problems it has, remains the best answer for serious staking so far, in my very humble opinion. I appreciate the feedback on using the arrowheads.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:21 pm

So bring bigger visegrips & a bigger crowbar. With 3/4" dia form stakes, you have the option of using a commercial stake puller, but I have back problems myself and never had a problem tapping them loose with a hammer and pulling with visegrips. They mostly stay straight, unlike the 3/8" & 1/2" rebar most people try to use.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:59 pm

What would be a problem using a roto-hammerto drive and remove rebar.

Phill I sit on a stool when working close to the ground.. The same stool forms a kneeling pad/w handles to help me get up..I will send a picture and info in the morning.. I have to search out any help I can get.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:45 pm

The stakes I have been using ... either the military V stakes or the Home Depot "mega" X-stakes stay in the gound and have been very easy to pull out. We have the "lite-brite" rebar driver and a puller and that works fine for the camp common stuff, but my personal stuff all has the military stakes (9-inch for my tent, 12 inch for the shade structure). The stakes hold and pull right out when the event is over.

The CO · Post by **The CO** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:58 pm

Aahh yes... I've used a device similar to the penatrator on playa back in '96 to guy of the center camp shade structure. They were alright, held well, but exhausting to drive & remove. Less damage than the arrowheads will produce.

phil · Post by **phil** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:04 am

I got an answer today from AEA saying they recommend the Penetrator (the screw in anchor) if I need a reuseable anchor - not the arrow head. Seems to support the experience posted earlier on this thread.

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:20 pm

A couple of years ago one of my camp-mates brought a slide hammer with a hook attachment on the end for pulling rebar. Just hook it around the end of a candy cane rebar and give it a few good yanks. It was faster and easier than any other method I've tried, including rebar pullers. It wouldn't work as well for straight sections of rebar unless you came up with a good way to attach it.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:01 pm

Dork wrote:A couple of years ago one of my camp-mates brought a slide hammer with a hook attachment on the end for pulling rebar. Just hook it around the end of a candy cane rebar and give it a few good yanks. It was faster and easier than any other method I've tried, including rebar pullers. It wouldn't work as well for straight sections of rebar unless you came up with a good way to attach it.

/
I have looked a slide hammers. A chain link that fits over the rebar.. When pulled on it will lock onto the rebar.. Thats clear as mud but the best I can explain

Earth anchors for your shade and tent

Earth anchors for your shade and tent

email answer from American Earth Anchors