Who has the right to fundraise?

Bitterman · Post by **Bitterman** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:46 am

Curious as to other lurkers opinions re:
who feels that they hold the bouncer status as to who can hold a fundraiser for their camp / project, making a mere mention (or not in some cases) of the BM-tag, and who cant?
ex: "Camp who gives a fuck brc 2007 fundraiser" - acceptable? no?
Sf camps ok, but not oklahoma?
2nd timers vs. jaded self-appointed bm wisemen?
wee-moon"isms" but not fratboy stripper pole mania?

It's tiring to see
camp fundraisers flamed on tribe by a bunch of BM wanks, or on eplaya, the mother of all snarky wankerdom.
whaa. or boo-fucking-hoo, i thought this site was in part to promote / help fellow camps.
or just an excuse in narcissistic "muytaytor" style pr work......it's all gonna pay off any day now.......

type what you want, it wont change anything.

i'm going to another site for further wanking,
f'd in the a,
BITTERMAN,
counting down the days until bm is totally consumed by "girls/boys gone wild"

EvilDustBooger · Post by **EvilDustBooger** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:24 am

.

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:29 am

Since there's no set rule of thumb, I generally have to make some seat of the pants decisions as the commerce-killing mod:

One, it should be posted in regionals and events and ONLY there; not theme camps, not share resources, not art and performances. BM regionals can fund-raise here. Pretty much has to be an event, raffles and direct selling of schtuff to raise money raises some legal eyebrows which we can do without.

For non-BM sponsored camps: is it a fund-raising event for something which will happen on the playa which will be interactive? I know that's waaaay loose, but it is the best I can do. Am I gullible and trusting? Yes. Personally I don't give a rat's buttload WHAT your theme camp will be doing, as long as it is for public participation or an art installation or a mutant vehicle to share or whatever, just as long as it isn't merely to fund the trip to the playa. I even let "help me get so-and-so to the playa" because hell, if you choose not to help, then don't.

Commercial events, even if they're things burners would enjoy aren't allowed. Burner-centric events over the year? It depends. We're helping starving artists who might be cool burners? Probably not unless the folks putting it on can make a convincing argument for their case. We're raising funds to give everyone on the playa a double-scoop sundae? Sure, why not. Have I disagreed with folks about the nature of their event? Yes. It helps if you say UP FRONT who and what yuo're fundraising for; don't assume I know.

As for Tribe, well, pffft, tribe is so trolly I scarcely bother with it. Eplaya is a veritable wading pool of joy and harmony compared to tribe's current state.

And there is no RIGHT to fundraise on eplaya. Like driving, like attending the event, it is a privilege which can be revoked if abused. Is it arbitrary? You betcha, there's no hard and fast rules past the Community Guidelines and the Terms of Service.

Unless you'd like to tell us who pissed in your cornflakes ...

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:49 am

It is a tad tricky to hold an event when you have maybe thirty burners within several hundred miles and everyone seems to be wrapped up in their own plans and broke.
2500 miles is an expensive schlep.
I hope you guys appreciate how much easier it is to fundraise in San Frangeles.

I'm open to ideas
How do I do this long distance?
Virtual event?
Would anyone care?

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:51 am

True that, but I don't really have a good answer.

Bitterman · Post by **Bitterman** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:20 pm

A.M - that was as fine a response as i could have hoped to read - thanks.
there are so many bm-related advertised shows here in reno alone, that it starts to boggle the mind - i just dont see how harm can really be done by internet(s) style promotion.
I've seen many an out-of-town bm-related (hosted by bm camps) that i would have loved to have been a part of, but distance prevents.
it seems plausible that it'd be ok to at least announce all bm-related efforts, then the populace picks/chooses whats right for them, exactly how i see brc itself - if one camp sucks, keep walking till you find what you wish, and if that doesnt happen, start your own f'n camp, and be personally responsible for your own happiness- others will join you.

my bitter reaction was just that,
bitter due to snarkicide

bitterman,
looking for the aloe wipes to clean-up the wankiness

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:20 pm

My $.02

Trying to judge a post's "fundraiser" status is difficult at best. Any sort of financial transaction COULD come back to help the event by making some piece of art or a theme camp possible. Or, an event could simply be using "BM fundraiser" as a marketing scheme without otherwise benefiting BM. So... whether something is a fundraiser or not can't really be used as a criteria. We just won't know where something falls on this line.

On this board we've decided to do away with buying and selling of goods, even for BM-related items, so that's out. What is still in is events that are of interest to attendees but might not be publicised elsewhere. They should have clear subject lines and be in the appropriate folder to minimize the amount of noise they generate to people outside the area or uninterested in that type of event. If some event got flamed on this board, maybe it's because it didn't seem BM-related or it was seen as noise for some reason.

Tribe is a whole other beast. Listings and Events seem to go over ok. If you post a topic on the BM tribe you're setting yourself up for a flame no matter what the subject is. I wish there was a good solution to getting local people together when the numbers are small. I'm in a similar situation where I live.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:21 pm

Bitterman wrote:A.M - that was as fine a response as i could have hoped to read - thanks.

Here, Here. Totally agree, wish everyone could be that civil in their e-playa discussions (including, sometimes, me)

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:33 pm

Glad to see this topic, since I was going to ask some of the same things. The BM fundraiser is tough. When you're at the point that you spend you're extra money on BM stuff anyway, how is it different than extra income?

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:10 pm

Sometimes I think it is a group thing, at least that's the way I view it. My Home for Wayward Art would qualify by my specifications, but I'd never fundraise for it; a fundraiser would actually not be cost-effective on a small scale like mine. What I worry about is the big extravaganzas which target large portions of non-burner audiences. Very tricky line to draw.

Very tricky and we have to trust in our community to call what's good and what's not so good. I do rely on thoughtful input.

For example, there's a new fundraiser in events and regionals to help a burner in the hospital. Doesn't bother me in the slightest that it is here. I hope folks' good natures won't lead them to snark at it.

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:59 pm

Been there, done that, failed spectacularly.

Since then I've learnt to either pull off my projects within my means and with materials and skills I have to hand, or can easily get for free by appealing to the community. Whether it's here or Freecycle.

Failing that, I stash away a little money every week and there's my budget. After eight Burns, I have my camp infrastructure squared away.

2000:The Body was such a spoiler. The art was so humongous, everyone thinks they have to at least equal or trump that. I'll see you a Three Faces of the Man and raise you one Uchronia.

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:15 pm

We're running a camp we've done before to try to make a little to build some bigger stuff. I hope it works out because the money would be nice, though I had an interview for a promotion today that should help build some stuff.

Archantael · Post by **Archantael** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:38 pm

diane o'thirst wrote:2000:The Body was such a spoiler. The art was so humongous, everyone thinks they have to at least equal or trump that. I'll see you a Three Faces of the Man and raise you one Uchronia.

I wonder...with the ever increasing scale, cost, and complexity of playa art if we're heading towards a tipping point where it will have to become "unofficial corporate sponsored art" just to keep up. Is it really worth it to spend thousands, even hundreds of thousands of dollars on art that with a few notable exceptions is for limited consumption by the citizens of BRC? Even with all the intangibles that come with the BM experience..is anyone asking themselves if it's really worth it? I see things either heading towards defacto corporate sponsorship, or perhaps that in order to get that funding the artists will be expected to give up control over their art post-event in order to recoup the costs?

I'm just running my mouth on a virtual soapbox here but damn, does ayone else wonder where it will stop?

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:15 pm

I think it'll depend on what the community really allows. BM will keep changing. Most of our camps expenses have been on things that will exist whether BM lives or dies. We're starting to get too much stuff where we're worried the influx of friends won't be enough to keep building more and more though. We've talked about doing more 1-shot big projects in the future.

Zhust · Post by **Zhust** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:13 am

Archantael wrote:I wonder...with the ever increasing scale, cost, and complexity of playa art if we're heading towards a tipping point where it will have to become "unofficial corporate sponsored art" just to keep up.

Big art is not necessarily good art. Good art is not necessarily big art.

Make big art to be famous. Make good art to make a difference.

d6 · Post by d6 » Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:20 pm

We have the basic infrastructure stored, try to "come up with" a project that we not only want to create, but will hopefully add something to someone, is something we can afford on all levels, and succeed or fail once we show up on playa.
no trustafarians, suggar mommas or daddies in our group, so outside of paychecks,
we have zero funding but have hosted a variety of bm events in RE:?NO!,($$went to "artists") and help out as much as possible with other reno/sf bm events.

and so,
last year we mostly failed, but will be back for "theme camp attempt #8" this year. we used our spectator passes from 96-98, so its all about the work, and the occasional illicit organic compound.
if you show up ready to try at brc, you already have the license to confuse

we'll never be a "faces of", "uchronia", "flock" or that "beyond cool fire spinny metal whirly 25ft tall thing", but we try, dammit.
we just want a safe place to raise our children for a few days,and then burn them into oblivion with digitized memories.

see ya real soon kids!

d6

our partial bm past: www.robotronia.com

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:24 pm

AntiM wrote:Since there's no set rule of thumb, I generally have to make some seat of the pants decisions ...

That's a pretty good description of tryanny.

Post by **AntiM** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:50 pm

blyslv wrote:
AntiM wrote:Since there's no set rule of thumb, I generally have to make some seat of the pants decisions ...

That's a pretty good description of tryanny.

Yes, but I'm benevolent.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:53 pm

Spare change?

philosopher · Post by **philosopher** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:32 pm

Last year I posted a notice of the Mile High Raffle, the main fundraiser for the Black Rock City Post Office. It's definitely playa-centric: The winners of the raffle get a flight over the playa and typically engage in the most delicious adult pleasures they can imagine. It can be quite a production and has started to become in its own way a playa tradition.

Since this is entirely a burner thing and every red cent is scrupulously accounted for as a whole-camp expense, it seemed appropriate to me to put a note up on the eplaya.

But now I am wondering about whether there are evolving criteria of appropriateness I never knew existed. I will say that while I believe camp fundraising is almost as much a part of the event now as ticket sales, it doesn't seem good form to spam threads that have nothing to do theme camps, events, or fundraising. It wouldn't occur to me to consider a blanket prohibition on theme camp fundraising messages on the eplaya. Is that what anyone is leaning toward?

Post by **mdmf007** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:21 pm

IMHO - The eplaya community takes too harsh a stance on commerce and money.

Money is not some evil force that must be shunned and the topic mute like maasturbation (and eplaya is the only place i can type masturbation lol!!!)
Anyways I see commerce on eplaya like Justice Rhenquist sees porn.

"I cant define it - but I know it when i see it"

I believe fundraising so your camp can enjoy BM is very BM'ish by definition...The funds raised go to shower set ups, food, tix, transport, blinkies, kitsch, and all the other stuff that needs to be bought.

Tshirts for sale with the Man emblazoned are another topic entirely though. I am a relatively newbie here on eplaya, and have asked a few times "Where is an appropriate place for burners to sell to burners?" why not throw up a comercial link so burners can support burners.

I for example am looking to rfinance my house - A mortgage is the same to me whether it comes from the guy up the street, or a burner. All things being equal - id go with a burner if they were in finance. I would also buy a dome from a burner, lights, art bkes, etc. See what I am getting at?

I say throw up a Commercial link and pay it forward.
later all.

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:36 pm

I dont' have a problem with you fundraising. In fact if I were in the area I would be happy to attend. If memory serves you only wanted 5 bucks for a door charge. The TOS allows for fundraising events for theme camps.
That being said good luck with your plans for Club Verboten.

Now I do have a problem with theme camps making huge profits year after year. Just beacuse someone spends 10 grand a year doesn't mean they should be able to rake in 50 grand a year at the event. I have had a bunch of theme camps tell me that they need 50 bucks for supplies, fine by me. Some as high as 200 bucks to cover costs.. also fine by me for the larger camps. Then I get hammered on tribe and elsewhere for camp costs from 1000$ to 3500$ .. THAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH!

d6 · Post by d6 » Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:17 am

we just gave one of our domes/parachutes to Apokiliptika - it will have a better life there - 4 bikes were already donated to the rat in our past, and i like knowing where its going and what its for........
now when the time comes to say:
"who wants our bins of playafied-wear, parachutes, water barrels,etc"
we'll be pushing it forward once more.

I'm in agreement here with just about everybodys posts, which is rare...

d6

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:56 pm

[quote="ArchantaelI wonder...with the ever increasing scale, cost, and complexity of playa art if we're heading towards a tipping point where it will have to become "unofficial corporate sponsored art" just to keep up. [/quote]

I wonder if that concern was behind the smaller scale (but still excellent) Temple last year, and if that and/or carbon emissions is behind what looks like a very much scaled-back Man base for 2007?

metric · Post by **metric** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:48 pm

Anyways I see commerce on eplaya like Justice Rhenquist sees porn.
"I cant define it - but I know it when i see it"

That was Justice Potter Stewart.

metric · Post by **metric** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:50 pm

By the way, is it OK to use porn for fundraising? Maybe, get a bunch of friends to set up a webcam porn site, like I heard was done to benefit Katrina victims?

pinemom · Post by **pinemom** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:43 am

Well, our situations a little strange, funds wise.
We were in a awesome theme camp last yr and the main infastructure and persons who made and paid for it isnt doing it again.
So we toiled with a new idea, as so many of the campers all wanna be together again. So we put it together. and yes, it turned out to cost a little more then our budgeted thoughts. ok alot more. But this is something we designed and now we have to figure out a way to pull it off. Bit by bit we will.
I am thinking in a artist way that a local art group is hosting a artist walk, alot of local artists are going to rent motel rooms like lil galleries Dada style!
Im going to do a burner fashion show, not all my creations will be for sale but I plan on trying to do a couple of real eye catchers that will be.And if theres more then one person interested I'll just do a auction. heehe never done the hey batter batter...1 dollar do I hear 5 dollar I got 10 dollar do i hear 20 dollar...
Not everyone who goes to burningman can sew a great costume, but has the money to shell out cause they work so hard they dont have time to sew. and visa versa.
I also belong to a fire conclave, they are doing BIG art that alot of people will be able to utilize, they are doing a local fundraiser tonight. Huge!
But they will be using the installation for alot of purposes, local arttown and burningman. But then again, their non-profit pending. So every cent they get goes back into fuel, costumes,tools etc...no one is paid!
They designed a huge platform thats going to cost close to 10k.
and were all locals that definately dont have that kind of lose change hanging around. so fundraising is good, as long its not stocking your liquor cabnet!
That my friends is camp tax!

Post by **AntiM** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:29 am

I was thinking about fundraising on eplaya ... if you're having an event and wanting to invite folks, well, alright. But direct fundraising? Eplaya has got to be one of the very worst venues for money making, and that's not just the non-commercial aspect of it. Many of us are either broke or right up against it, or if we do have income, it is already dedicated to our own camps and vehicles and such.

As in, I'd love to help out several camps and art ideas, but my resources are sunk into paint and canvas and costumes for the E-11 event, plus all the infrastructure repairs and upgrades which bob along each year. Just like everybody else, hmmm?

So, just how relevant is this argument?

d6 · Post by d6 » Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:31 pm

as of today i'm 32k in debt (not including house), am almost ready to spend away on robot parts and supplies, and have 2 crates of ready-to-be-donated playa wear of the mostly womanly variety (due to size, so if'n ye be a slender lad, you'd fit in 'em just fine)
anyone?
anyone?
i hear the controlled burn show raised...........?
the club verboten dm nite went smoothly as well.......

d6,
sasquatch frankenstein doesnt have time for dinner........

Major Mallet · Post by **Major Mallet** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:49 am

I want to build a mutant vehicle that will cost about $4,500 to construct and transport to and from the Playa. I was hoping to raise about $2,500 from outside sources. However, there are not very many burners in my area so the typical party / garage sale type of fundraisers are out of the question. Also, asking folks for money flat out did not sit well with me as I am not known on the playa and most burners seem to be on budgets of one sort or another.

Therefore, I came up with (what I thought) was a clever way to generate funds without burners actually spending any money. I became an affiliate of Amazon.com. The theory being that fellow burners that are going to purchase anything on Amazon could purchase it AFTER they visit a specific post on my blog. This post has a link to Amazon that triggers a small (4-8%) commission for my project whenever a purchase is made. The purchaser does not pay any additional fee and the money goes to the mutant vehicle. I thought it would go over fairly well. I was not asking anyone to purchase anything that they were not already planning on getting. However, it has not been doing very well.

So here is the question: Why would this idea meet with general indifference? Yes, I know that only a few burners personally know me (2007 will be my first burn) so I can see some cause for hesitancy there. However, since it costs nothing to support this project what is there to lose by using my page as a link to Amazon? Furthermore, I have made it clear that all proceeds go to the vehicle and not to my personal expenses. Am I approaching the BM community in the wrong way? Any thoughts on how to better approach the community to generate support for this project?

Who has the right to fundraise?

Who has the right to fundraise?

Fundraising?

~

Credit where it's due

Porn saves the world