21+ ID check at BM

[Rat Bastard]

There's other threads like this talking about bars checking IDs etc. I wrote to the Borg about this and the idea of having Borg issue wristbands etc. That would go against the theory of radical self reliance. They suggested that citizens take care of it themselves.

The idea is that bars can work together with a wristband system. You get checked once at bar A, get a wristband, then you can put your ID away in it's safe place and cruise on over to bar B. Your wristband would only be valid at camps participating in the program. Does anyone want to take this on? (I would but I'm doing this thing called a theme camp and also mutating a vehicle. Plate full.) One thing is that there would have to be some regulating who gets to do the checking and that they were checking properly.

Our camp is planning on doing this with our visitors to make life easier on our staff as the week goes on.

If no one is into this that's fine. Please leave pesimistic responses on the other threads.

[K-mom]

#1- I think this is a great idea.

#2 -Dont you dare tell me not to object. If I think you're idea sucks, hell yeah I'm gonna tell you, right here.

[MikeVDS]

Why?

QFT

#2 -Dont you dare tell me not to object. If I think you're idea sucks, hell yeah I'm gonna tell you, right here.

[capjbadger]

Couple problems:

A: Wristbands are by no means foolproof.

B: Try telling the cops "But they were wearing a wristband!" when they fine you for serving a drink without checking ID.

Lead balloon issue. Not going to fly.

You want to drink, be a responsible adult and carry ID. Is that really too much to ask?

[theCryptofishist]

You forget it's the burn. Some participants may be 21, but still have trouble wiping own butts.

[Dork]

You forget it's the burn. Some participants may be 21, but still have trouble wiping own butts.

Then they get to have trouble getting drunk. If they look under 30 and want free alcohol from strangers, they need to carry around their ID. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

[dragonfly Jafe]

You forget it's the burn. Some participants may be 21, but still have trouble wiping own butts.

Then they get to have trouble getting drunk. If they look under 30 and want free alcohol from strangers, they need to carry around their ID. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

If you feel the need to carry I.D. at BM, I would recommend that you bring a copy (color preferably). That way you can leave the real ID safely in your car (where it is less likely to get lost).

The wrist band idea has merit if the organizers manage it (or they grant that power to a private group of individuals). Obvious issues, not a 100%, but really one must ask; what is the driving force behind this? It seems to me that the LEO's & BLM are raising the pot so-to-speak. Are we sheep to follow their lead so blindly? Is there really a problem with underage drinking at BM? Yes, the police set-up stings. Yes, they write tickets. Be aware, know your guests rather than just handing out drinks. If they look young, ask if they are 21. If you don't like the answer, keep asking questions....or send them packing.

[Rat Bastard]

A: Wristbands are by no means foolproof.


Well neither are IDs. Especially ones from overseas or color printouts of one. Ever heard of a fake ID?

Is there anyone here that has been trained in ID checking? For all 50 states and other countries. Or does anyone know of a good resource for how to spot a fake ID? In Illinois, one of the differences is under 21 IDs have a red background in the picture. Over 21 is a blue back ground. LEO do use decoys with fake IDs.

If they don't have crows feet, ID them!

Once again, this thread is for solutions to citizens not getting carded every day, every shift at the same spot. Unless you have only one person to check IDs all week it's impossible to remember people if you weren't on shift the last time they came. If the wristband idea can work for 3.6 million people at Taste Of Chicago then I think it's foolproof enough for BM.

I will certainly be on the lookout for all those that say they bring ID. You will get carded regardless of how old you look just to help you prove your point!

Have a good day everyone.

[MikeVDS]

Who do the wristbands really serve? The ones wearing them don't have to carry IDs? They still will since not all bars will accept some random wristband. Will the bars not have to worry about checking IDs? Sure they will and they'll have to worry about distributing wristbands. I do not see any way of this improving things for anyone.

[capjbadger]

Yes I've heard/seen/made a fake ID. Silly question...


I do recall seeing a few very good sites about spotting real and fake IDs, even foreign ones. Not that I'd expect anyone outside of law enforcement to commit such to memory.

Now Jafe said something that brought back something in my mind.

Ask the if the are over 21. Simple. By law, those sting "Kids" are not allowed to lie about their age if asked. It's the law. (Federal law I think..)

And yes, I take my ID everywhere. I find it's just handy to have. Damn my youthful looks. lol

[Rat Bastard]

[quote]
Now Jafe said something that brought back something in my mind.

Ask the if the are over 21. Simple. By law, those sting "Kids" are not allowed to lie about their age if asked. It's the law. (Federal law I think..)[/quote]


What source is this from. I'd like to see actual documentation on this myth. I'd at least like to hear it from a LEO. When LEOs do drug stings, don't they try to buy? They buy, leave then a another cop comes in and arrests them. Then the cop poses as a dealer and catches buyers the rest of the day. Seen it done. Even though it's "illegal" to buy drugs.

I live in Chicago and have learned that honest cops are few and far between. Yes, I may be innocent in the eyes of the law. But they don't have a problem making me wait for a judge to decide that. (I'm only speaking of Chicago here and not anywhere else. Chicago has a wonderous history of corruption.)

So any LEOs or lawyers from NV, please pipe in.

We're still going to do wristbands for ourselves. Radical self reliance, right?

[MikeVDS]

I'd like to see actual documentation on this myth.

I'd like to see the actual code myself if anyone knows it or is willing to find it.

[thisisthatwhichis]

That's correct. It's Nevada Law.. It is illegal to misrepresent your age when asked.
There was a thread titled "carding at BM", which I can't find with excerpts and links to the statutes.

As a Bar it is semi-safe to ask if the patron is over 21 and of legal drinking age. More intelligent bar keepers should always card..... There is no reason not to, and it will save any trips to the Gerlach g(O)(O)lag........

[helitack]

Well let's see:

NRS 202.020 Purchase, consumption or possession of alcoholic beverage by minor.
1. Any person under 21 years of age who purchases any alcoholic beverage or any such person who consumes any alcoholic beverage in any saloon, resort or premises where spirituous, malt or fermented liquors or wines are sold is guilty of a misdemeanor.
2. Any person under 21 years of age who, for any reason, possesses any alcoholic beverage in public is guilty of a misdemeanor.
3. This section does not preclude a local governmental entity from enacting by ordinance an additional or broader restriction.
4. For the purposes of this section, possession “in publicâ€

[mdmf007]

Helitack says it so eloquently above. From above Section 202.055.1 (If you knowingly give alcohol- your screwed) if you ask for ID in NV, and someone presents ID that appears to be valid then you have met your burden. If they lie about it and present a false ID then they have committed the crime.

Wrist bands are just more MOOP looking for a home on the trash fence.
Wrist bands are also easy to take off and give to the next guy.

ID them, if they dont have it Bounce their ass. I have never been carded on the playa and do not carry anything other than water or water and boozeahol. If asked I would simply leave and get it if I really wanted in.

later all.

[MikeVDS]

Those sections stated, if the only law on the matter, would indicate that you don't even need to ask if they are 21. "I didn't know they weren't 21" would be an adequate excuse. I have a feeling there are more laws pertaining to this or at very least case law. The above does nothing to show that asking is enough, not does it disprove it.

[helitack]

Try this:
http://www.jour.unr.edu/zephyr/04_sprin ... sting.html

Clerks, bartenders, wait staff etc are considered their respective employers representatives, who are responsible for complying with State law, which means they must confirm the age of a person attempting to purchase, possess and/or consume alcohol and/or tobacco. Clear enough.

[Eric]

What I have been taught working clubs in California is that it's the clubs responsibility to make reasonably sure that no minor gets a drink, i.e.: card people. Asking is not considered enough, and I've worked at a club that was almost closed because they didn't card everyone, just people who looked underage. Yep- we had to card the grey-hairs just like the kiddies.

I don't know if this was SF specific, if it was because the bar was popular & therefore held to a "higher" level of enforcement, or if it was the law. It was, however, what we were either to do or get a new job.

Personally I think this whole subject is a bunch of blather- if you don't want to carry ID, don't. If you do, do. If you don't want to card- that's your choice. Just make sure everyone in your camp agrees on it.

As for getting someone else to come up with a wristband policy:

Does anyone want to take this on?

If you don't have the time or energy to do it, don't expect someone else to.

As for me? I'll carry my ID, and never wear a damn wristband for a week.

[Tiahaar]

oh fer love of...just implant the over 21s with an "over 21" chip at the gate, have the bars scan their patrons and be done with it already. geez. wristbands are so mundane. or just punch in an eartag like they do cattle for that wild west approach

[Chai Guy]

5. The term does not include:
(a) Possession for an established religious purpose;

LOOPHOLE! Yay!

Just add the words "Temple" or "Church" in front of your bar and you can serve minors all day long!

[Chai Guy]

Oh shit, loophole #2

(d) Possession in private clubs or private establishments

Sweet! Simply require that all patrons fill out a "membership" form and pledge to become a member in your "private club" and you're covered!

[gyre]

Funny.
I had to wear a wristband out there.
You get used to it.

[Scubapro]

At first glance, I thought wristbands was a great idea. A camp could issue numbered wristbands after an I.D. check, then distribute a list to camps serving booze and tobacco. This list would be a form of backup system. The gifting camp would then decide to accept the wristbands or not.

However, who will take up the project? This will require some measure of dedication and could be a big job. I'm on the fence about the idea now.

I know the biggest problem of carrying I.D. around the playa is the risk of losing it and all the problems this may lead to. I have a simple but not fool-proof suggestion for those wanting to carry I.D. around B.R.C. Those possessing a fishing license have seen the plastic sleeves designed for you fishing license in sporting goods stores. You can insert your I.D. in that and attach it to a lanyard as it is designed to do and wear around your neck. I do understand this could interfere with costuming (or lack thereof) and won't be desirable by everyone.

I don't generally carry my D.L. around the playa since I know a barkeep can take one look at me and ask what grave was I dug up from.

If I was serving booze or tobacco, I would just card if the person appeared to be under or close to the legal age. But this isn't my art. My gratitude goes out to the very kind people who do so and hope a workable solution is found to keep honest mistakes from becoming a legal matter.

[pinemom]

Our bar had No issues with underage drinking...we carded anyone that looked younger then 29, and to tell you the truth, I think most underagers, dont hang in the bars...they have there own form of innebriation and hang out in the bigger camps(deep end) to go unnoticed.