Advice needed for theme camp kitchen for up to 30

Lust · Post by **Lust** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:29 pm

We have always feed up to 18 people for all the burn events we have been to. I am head of running the kitchen this year for up to 30 people. The propblem is we have people that are vegitarians and meat only eaters. I have been told that we should go with providing the kitchen and 3 dinners for everyone and having other people in our group pick up the other days. Those who don't like the food choices or have restrictive diets can fend for themselves. Breakfest would be a contrabution from everyone that wants to eat, and lunch is an on your own kind of deal.
Does this sound like a good idea? Or should I just plan on feeding everyone dinner and nothing else, breakfest would be communial.\
I was planning to pre-cook everything and food-savering & freezeing it all. And just boiling it in large pots on the playa, leaving just non-contaminated water to deal with and just a few serving utensils to clean.
My husband is worried that there is going to be problems out the ass doing any of this. I'm a chef and this just seems like the easiest way for me to contribute to my camp.
How much per person per day should this cost, can anyone who has done this before for this size group (30 pp) give some advice on how to make this run smoothly. Or point me in the direction of some other camps outline for thier kitchen and food?
I really do appreciate any help or advice I am given.
Thank you,
Lust

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:27 pm

You might want to gather the e-mails of most of your camp and get a dialog going with them.

If you want to eat as a camp, then it's not that difficult to make things everyone can eat. Do hot dogs and veggie dogs. Burgers are the same way. If you make lasagna you'll have to make more than one anyway so make one veggie. I can't imagine everything for 30 people would be in one pot anyway, and most people I know prepare most of the food before they are out there.

If it's too difficult for your cooks to mix different recipes then you can tell anyone who's picky that they can fend for themselves. Make what you want. If it's too veggie for someone, they can make their own darn meal, and visa versa.

The key is to let everyone who's participating what the plan is ahead of time. Don't tell the cooks once they are out there, that they have to accommodate everyone, or don't tell your veggie eating friends that they will have to pick out all the meat. Talk with your camp ahead of time and figure out what everyone will be happiest with. You can even divide your camp for cooking purposes into two or more cook groups.

If you want to cook a lot, do it, if it's too much trouble, then don't.

Post by **mdmf007** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:10 pm

Lust -

Take a tip from the commercial vendors that have to please everyone.

We respond to a lot of federal government incidents like floods, wildfires, hurricanes. etc. The same food vendors are there preparing meals for upwards of 5000 people 3 times a day with a midnight snack for night crews. The food is always great and heres how they do it.

Since everyone - vegans and carnivores can eat vegetables, fruit, salad etc. All they have to worry about is the main course.

Like Mike said have 2 main course choices, and the rest of the meal should be pretty neutral as is. Obviously you will not be able to please everyone all the time, but if you can come close overall happiness should be up there.

later

Dr. Pyro · Post by **Dr. Pyro** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:11 pm

Sounds like a lot of trouble for a bunch of snivveling babies. If they don't like what you cook, fuck'em, they can starve. That's why we abandoned group meals years ago, it's impossible to please everybody; hell, it's hard enough to please anybody! If you have a communal kitchen, if they can't fend for themselves, they have no business being out in the desert. You can't have a few vegans or vegetarians bitch about everything any more than you can have Mr. Carnivore expecting someone to slaughter a cow every morning. Like I said, if you're in charge of the meals and they don't like it, to hell with them. I have never asked anyone in my camp to keep kosher just because I'm Jewish. I know I'm the weird one. It's about time they realize the same thing.

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:26 pm

Pre-cook starchy and veggie dishes, one boiling pot (turkey fryers work good for that) and one grill, and let those who eat meat bring and cook their own. The veggie dishes would be fine for the vegetarians and a side dish for the omnivores.

Consider couscous as a starch, it only takes five minutes and doesn't create wastewater, either.

Also consider setting out snacks for midday. Dried fruit, granola and crackers are good; they're salty, they keep well and if you get them in bulk or have a food dehydrator they're economical.

Ron · Post by **Ron** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:21 am

In my experience the biggest issue with kitchens is the clean up. Figure out questions like access for random snack making/eating meals at times other than when the main group will, who's going to be responsible for cleaning it up during the event, and when, who's going to clean it up at the end, and so on. Your ideas on minimizing mess sound great but what happens if someone from camp wants to make an omelet in the kitchen for a late breakfast? Where are they going to put the egg shells, onion and garlic peels, pepper seeds, and other associated debris from their meal? Now multiply that by the number of folk in their camp, plus the food sharing friends they make the burn, and you may see my point. :)

Kitchens used by groups of folk tend to produce a lot of nasty grey water, so I'd recommend looking into an evaporation system of some kind, if you're not already. And bags to dry out the organic garbage reduce the weight of the cooked but uneaten food stuff you're going to have to pack out are very useful. Sounds like you might be principally responsible for the menus and cooking, yes? Have you all got someone who's so responsible for the logistics, construction, and clean up? If yes good on you, if no I'd suggest getting someone and that someone be other than yourself. But a body to own those (or some subset of) issues and approach them with the same vim and vigor you seem to be going after the food side would be helpful, I'd think.

Best of luck in your efforts!

Ron

MrMullen · Post by **MrMullen** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:18 pm

I think that trying to bring a group of people together around meals and the meals being the second thought is a path to a nightmare. You should do it the other way around; pick the meals and then bring the people you can around it, making sure to screen out the losers and crybabies.

The camp I was in this year and plan to be in next year is a BBQ camp. They make it clear that meat and other items will be on the menu and your camp feels will cover this. You also have to pick shifts to work and are expected to be a team player, for the most part. It's well worth it in my view!

pinemom · Post by **pinemom** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:13 am

Hi Lust...
Well last yr our camp was 32, 4-6 of those peeps really didnt participate in the Kitchen idea...not a problem.
The rest of us prior to going out...made a scedule...everynight someone was prep-cook,cook, and most important "KITCHEN BITCH" this rotated every night. Kitchen Bitch is a KEY componate! This person is responsible in reminding in morning...whom is suppose to be home in time for cooking! Is responsible in cracking the whip so to speak(real in our case) to grab people by the ears to help clean up after all is said and done.
And over all, a agreement at beginning amoungst ALL CAMPERS that if you make a mess you clean it ALL the way up!
Breakfast in our camp, was designed originally to be a on your own, but we all just brought stuff in and cooked together, we did have issues with that as far as clean up...BACON GREASE! oozy gooey cant just pour, has to be contained. As well as everyone got in a hurry to go explore the day.
By lunch or dinner we did have to do minor clean up before we could start.
So I would say a Kitchen Bitch du'Jour...might work better!
and always make it someone else other then the cook/prep cook. Cooking for that many peeps...is hard enough, you dont wanna have to clean up after them too! Possible rotation of "clean up crews"???

hope it helps...EYES WIDE SHUT.

mojo · Post by **mojo** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:40 pm

I finance, plan, shop, prep, cook, AND do the clean-up for up to about 30 people, with vegetarians and carnivores in the group. I make sure they all realize that this is a GIFT. I make efforts to be sure the vegetarians that I love are covered, but if anyone doesn't like what is being served, they don't need to eat it. I've never seen anyone go hungry at Burning Man.

We do a communal breakfast or breakfast on your own. Although I will do sandwiches a couple of times during the week, lunch is usually on your own, but I do put out major hors d ordurves or munchies in the afternoons, to go with the cocktails. Considering the decreased appetite the playa heat causes and sleeping late, it's usually plenty until dinner.

Because cooking is really a part of the art for me, and I have access to the oven and stove in the RV as well as barbecue grills outside, I have been able to serve some really upscale, fun meals.

Good luck -

mojo · Post by **mojo** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:43 pm

Oh, and I don't set mealtimes by the clock - just say that dinner is at sunset or dark thirty or something similar. I never fail to have a full house that way.

Lust · Post by **Lust** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:10 pm

Thank you to everyone for all your advice. It was all very eye opening and useful.
I'm one step closer to a real plan of action to run by our group.

blueboy · Post by **blueboy** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:12 am

If you've got a kitchen that big, let me suggest that someone with a pickup bring up a backyard propane grill or two. We've been doing that the last three years and it makes for very yummy playa meals.

With a grill you can premarinade meat, mushrooms, peppers, squash, etc, and then just slap it on there and have hot food in 10-20 minutes. The smell alone is worth it.

Also, to reiterate what others have said, be sure to do as much prep as is humanly possible before you hit the playa. One year we premade 10 lbs of gazpacho and froze the bags solid to use as ice in our chests. As they thawed, we ate them. Cold gazpacho makes a great daytime meal, and you can eat it right from the baggie.

And to agree again with other posts, your biggest problem on playa will be cleanup. Dealing with dishwashing, graywater, and the accumulation of garbage are all tough things to do with a big kitchen. Definitely have a space set aside near the kitchen for storing bags of trash. Be sure to separate out recyclables and burnables, and make every car in the camp commit to taking home at least two bags of trash.

skygod · Post by **skygod** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:12 am

Nice article on the subject from last year's Piss Clear Newspaper
Issue #30, August 30-31
"Just Say No To Community Kitchens"
http://www.pissclear.org/PDFArchives/Pi ... t_2006.pdf

Some very well written stuff in all the issues btw.

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:18 am

Think of yourself as a nutrition facilitiator and not the camp cook. that means you're job is assure that those with special needs have some infrastructure to accomodate themselves. Set very clear expectations that you wil not be making everybody full of food all the time.

Lust · Post by **Lust** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:02 pm

So this what I ended up doing.....

Workings of the Kitchen
This is where you will find out about our community kitchen, how it is going to operate. Plus tips, tricks, planning, storing food, packing it in to make it easier to pack out, cooking & party night.

Description:
Double D community kitchen will be located in our private community shade structure area. Chico and I will be bringing pretty much everything for the kitchen area and the community shade structure/living room area. We will posting a list of what we have and what we still need for these areas soon.
The kitchen will have:
Cooking area: grill, large 2 burner free standing propane stove, 2 small 2 burner stove, oven, and coffee pot (Dan)
Prep area, also storage for cooking supply
Wash area, including grey water bucket for kitchen waste, trash will be located near by.
Food storage area, for coolers of foods ( which will need be labeled with contents) , and dry storage
Note on Coolers:
# As a group, the way that works for a lot of large groups, and what worked for us the first year we went, is to have an just ice cooler(for mixed drinks), a cooler with ice that holds soda and beer, refrigeration coolers for non frozen items. Then frozen coolers that have our frozen dinners in them planned out by days of the week. This will require us to get together before hand in order to do this. However it will cut down on food loss and the amount of coolers we have store.
# Like I said the 5 day coolers work the best for this, some of the large theme camps line them with reflective blankets on the inside, pack with dry ice, food, more dry ice, close then duck tape the seal closed. Each cooler would be labeled with contents. Coolers would be stored together under the shade and a blanket. So, for example cooler 1 would have Monday and Tuesday's dinner in it, maybe even Thursdays, with monday on top and Thursday on the bottom of course.
Bar area, TBD
Eating and relaxing area, carpeted, coffee table, pillows, BYOC ( bring your own chairs)

Rules of Kitchen:

1. This is a community kitchen that we all will share. What that means is that we all do our part by cleaning up after ourselves. Yes we have me or who ever is cooking that night and the kitchen bitches, however, everyone understands leave no trace and that should be your motto in our camp as well.
2. You are welcome to cook what ever you want when ever you want in the community kitchen as long as cleanup after yourself after your done.
3. If you opt out of a meal, you are welcome to cook what ever you want right next to us so you can still eat with the group. We will make room for you, we do have extra stoves.
4. Don't help yourself to someone else's alcohol, food or coolers unless they have told you it is ok. We will have ice coolers for drinks, we don't want pissed off camp mates that have a planned meal or their favorite bottle of booze missing! Plus we don't want to be arbitrarily opening coolers that contain frozen food. If it is labeled for Saturday, then there is no reason to open it until Saturday!
5. If you don't like what is offered, bring your own food.
6. You will need to bring 2 cups with lids (one for traveling on the playa and one for camp) a washable plate, knife and fork and or spoon, plus extra for any guest we have. You will be responsible for cleaning these after each meal.
7. No paper plates, plastic utensils, plastic cups, food cans! Paper towels, Clorox wipes, tin foil, plastic bags, glass, and soda or beer cans are the only throw away-ables that are allowed!I will add more to this below.

Communal eating:
Dinner:

1. We will be having a community dinner Monday thru Saturday @ an hour after we close for the day.
2. Chico and I have signed up for Tuesday and Saturday. This is a meal we are donating for the group as a gift. We will have alternatives for our vegetarian and food allergy friends.
3. We still need Monday, Wednesday, Thursday filled. Friday is a the party, more about the party in a minute. If you want to donate a meal for the group go to the sign up sheet and mark the day you want to do. You can put down TBA if you are still not sure what you are going to cook. You can also get with other group members to create a meal on a night to cut down on food cost.
4. If you sign up for a meal to donate to the group, please note that you need to get with your assigned kitchen bitch for that shift and make sure you give yourself enough time to have dinner ready by an hour after we close. If you need to start earlier, again get with your assigned kitchen bitch. Dinner is an hour after we close! Keep in mind that everyone will want to shower, eat, and get ready for night time activities on the playa, including yourself.
5. You don't have to take into consideration other peoples food lifestyles or allergies, but it is nice. A list of those people will follow. Like I said everyone has the option for opting out.

Lunch:

1. You are responsible for your own lunch and snacks.
2. The kitchen is yours to prepare your lunch or snacks, just make sure you clean up after yourself. Wash what you use, put everything back up, and wipe down surfaces. No one wants food poisoning from tainted surfaces!
3. If you brought too much you can donate it to the party night.

Breakfast:

1. Everyone should bring their own breakfast food that they like to eat. If you like eggs and bacon, or soy milk and cereal then bring it.
2. Eating as a group for breakfast is up to you and where you are when we cook. If you want to be part of that be back to camp by 10am. That gives everyone that wants to eat breakfast before we open a chance to do so.
3. There is no point in 10 to 20 people cooking eggs or bacon individually, that is the point behind a group breakfast.
4. Chico and I will be bringing several cartons of egg beaters (and other things to be determined) for example to share for breakfast.
5. Again, you can get together with someone else and buy breakfast stuff together to contribute if you like.
6. This is an opportunity to contribute to meals if you decide not to go in on a group dinner.

Advice needed for theme camp kitchen for up to 30

Advice needed for theme camp kitchen for up to 30

Gas Grill is a nice addition