Shamanism on the Playa

Blackbird · Post by **Blackbird** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:08 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Is it better or worse than the eating monkeys hypothesis?

I don't know of any others. Both are pretty questionable, but I've never heard anything else.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:31 pm

There is a film about the theory that aids came from use of chimpanzees to make vaccine in africa in violation of protocols.

skygod · Post by **skygod** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:27 pm

There is a town in Europe whose ancestors survived the Black Death plagues.
The descendants of those people have an immunity to HIV infection.
There is a specific chemical reaction that prevents either virus from penetrating the cell walls.

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:53 pm

I thought that a certain percentage of people of European descent could not develop a full blown case of AIDS because one of the plagues which swept through Europe killed off everyone with a certain, due to evolution, useless cell receptor that the AIDS virus would use to enter the cell. The people would become infected, because the virus would latch onto one cell receptor, but wouldn't develop a full case of AIDS because the virus could not actually infect the cell, because of the lack of the second receptor. (It might have been the Black Plague-- this was from a radio broadcast I heard many years ago.)

Ah, the joys of having ancestors with filthy living habits!

(Huh. That means I should be pretty much immune to EVERYTHING, right?!

)

(Now, I personally would not want to gamble that my ancestors passed on to me the correct set of genes to be resistant to AIDS..., but it is an interesting bit a trivia.)

B.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:48 am

Okay, I have heard of bush meat, although it does call into question--don't they cook thier food? Or would it be exposure to Chimpanzee blood during food prep with wound on thier hands?

When you consider that the Plague killed perhaps 1/3 of the people in Europe in its first round and came back with some frequency reguarly for something like 250 years, you'd expect pretty much anyone of European descent to be immune. And those in Mongolia and China and India and anywhere else the plaque has recurred frequently and has a rodent reserve. So that sounds pretty weak to me because only the indians would be getting AIDS. Oh, and I guess those of African desent.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:00 am

That's pretty interesting since the Black Plague is normally thought to have been a bacterium.

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:25 am

Well, I am not entirely certain it was the Black Plague in what I heard, and it was only a percentage of Europeans. Just a theory, anyway. We've still got a long way to go to figure AIDS, as far as I can tell.

B.

skygod · Post by **skygod** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:26 am

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/libra ... 04_05.html

Reading a chronological history, biologists traced the HIV-resistance gene mutation back about 700 years. That was the time at which the Black Death -- bubonic plague -- swept like a deadly scythe through Europe, killing one-third of the population. Then, as now, there were individuals who survived the lethal organism, perhaps because it could not enter their white blood cells. The areas that were hardest hit by the Black Plague match those where the gene for HIV resistance is the most common today.

BonnietheCajunQueen · Post by **BonnietheCajunQueen** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:25 pm

How does Shamanism have anything to do with friggin' Monkeys!! As The monty Python Boys would say, "Get on with it!!!!"

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:43 pm

Everybody loves monkeys.
They used to get off the island here and run wild on the rooftops in midtown.
We may have a lost monkey colony around here somewhere.

The only thing that separates us from monkeys is car keys.

BonnietheCajunQueen · Post by **BonnietheCajunQueen** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:52 pm

shamanism. monkeys. Still no relation. but I still think you are awesome Gyre, and where the heck is midtown, Pangea? Call me sheltered, but I have no idea where that is.

lizzizy · Post by **lizzizy** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:05 pm

Pangea is the "super continent" that is assumed to exist a few hundred million years ago before continental drift pulled the land masses apart into what we have now.

The idea of all the continents being connected at some point in the past helps explain fossils of very similar creatures being found in places that are now separated by thousands of miles and a large ocean or two.

Pangea also lends credit to the thought that all people are ancestors of the same original group of (pre)-hominids that would have inhabited the giant continent. Yay! We're all connected! *Happy hippy dance*

felony · Post by **felony** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:06 pm

PanÂ·gaeÂ·a also PanÂ·geÂ·a(pn-j)
n.
A hypothetical supercontinent that included all the landmasses of the earth before the Triassic Period. When continental drift began, Pangaea broke up into Laurasia and Gondwanaland.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[pan- + Greek gaia, earth.]

Midtown is what you make it.

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:41 pm

shamanism. monkeys. Still no relation.

What?! Are you saying a monkey can't be a shaman? Are you prejudiced against monkeys? What have monkeys ever done to you? Sheesh! Where would we be without monkeys?!

B.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:54 pm

I'd rather talk about monkeys than about pretentious asses who use native spiritual as an excuse for drug use.

Archantael · Post by **Archantael** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:58 pm

Pangaea: one of the starting points for plate tectonics theory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangaea

Instead of claiming to be from Pangaea wouldn't it be "cooler" to hail from Rodinia instead?

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:59 pm

Shamanism is not about drug use, any more than Christianity is about alcoholism. But, yeah, many misfits hijack shamanism for a joy ride. Little do they know what spirits lurk in the dark beyond.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:45 pm

felony wrote:PanÂ·gaeÂ·a also PanÂ·geÂ·a(pn-j)
n.
A hypothetical supercontinent that included all the landmasses of the earth before the Triassic Period. When continental drift began, Pangaea broke up into Laurasia and Gondwanaland.

The original spelling is greek (as they call it now).
Theoretical?
I disagree, though it does seem like a dream to me now.

We have an elaborate hill surrounded by water here in Memphis in the center of town known as monkey island.
The monkeys became smarter than the humans and had to be given another habitat.
Hilarity did ensue as they used the trees and houses here to escape at will.

They just found a four billion year old section of a tectonic plate.
Yes, I keep up with the 'new' discoveries.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:26 pm

There are penguins on monkey island now.

Finnegan · Post by **Finnegan** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:40 pm

Hey! Those are my penguins! Give em back!

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:00 pm

I want a Trunk Monkey system too.

Finnegan · Post by **Finnegan** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:03 pm

I've got your 'trunk monkey' right here. Heh.

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:49 am

theCryptofishist wrote:I'd rather talk about monkeys than about pretentious asses who use native spiritual as an excuse for drug use.

My interest in shamanism is mostly academic and spiritual. I have plenty of excuses for drug use. I am more interested in learning about natural cures and healing than the peyote since I've already BT&DT. Now about monkeys.. There is most certainly a relation. In my younger years I have often been caught masturbating like a zoo monkey on shrooms. Now this is no easy task but I assure you it can be done with lots of practice. One time I even met a monkey that guided me through my trip. I was in a nightclub in NYC called Sound factory, we had left Limelight and were rolling quite nicely until I was dosed. That monkey saved me from having a bad time of it. When we left the factory at around 11AM on a Saturday morning I was stuck in Manhattan with 4-6 hours left and totally needed the guidance. I have always wondered why the monkey had a sky blue mohawk like mine, I can only guess that he had good taste in hair like myself.

timburly · Post by **timburly** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:26 pm

[quote="theCryptofishist"]I'd rather talk about monkeys than about pretentious asses who use native spiritual as an excuse for drug use.[/quote]

Ouch!

If you look at any form of shamanism across the world all use some form of device to transport themselves into the lower or upper worlds. I've been practicing shamanism for about 3 years now and I've had my journeys with and without the aid of any entheogens. I can use Ayahuasca, mushrooms, or just the beat of a drum to journey.

And I do participate in drug use, but anytime I choose to use a natural hallucinogen its not out of recreation. Last time I treated mushrooms with that disregard i got my spiritual ass kicked.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:20 pm

I have learned to not open the door..Sometimes some bad shit can and will come in..Then it's hell giving it the doorway out..A lot like sweeping playa dust out o your camp

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:53 am

Toolmaker wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:I'd rather talk about monkeys than about pretentious asses who use native spiritual as an excuse for drug use.
My interest in shamanism is mostly academic and spiritual.

And that's fine. But

to paraphase what Lao Tzu wrote:The shamanism we speak about on e-playa is not the real shamanism.

I have a lot of difficulty believing that a *real* shaman would have the time, the money, or the inclination to come to the playa. From my understanding, a *real* shaman would use chemistry for 1, maybe 2, reasons--*he* is performing a ritual. Or he is training an apprentice. I don't think that either case is prearranged by posting on e-playa.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:02 pm

Agreed, too many noobs and narcs come to Eplaya, with the idea that "burners are all on drugz, rite?" and ask Questions That Must Not Be Asked.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:05 pm

I thought that a certain percentage of people of European descent could not develop a full blown case of AIDS because one of the plagues which swept through Europe killed off everyone with a certain, due to evolution, useless cell receptor that the AIDS virus would use to enter the cell.

That's a theory that's drawing a great deal of attention.

There was a great NOVA/Frontline special on it a few years back.

timburly · Post by **timburly** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:04 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
Toolmaker wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:I'd rather talk about monkeys than about pretentious asses who use native spiritual as an excuse for drug use.
My interest in shamanism is mostly academic and spiritual.
And that's fine. But
to paraphase what Lao Tzu wrote:The shamanism we speak about on e-playa is not the real shamanism.
I have a lot of difficulty believing that a *real* shaman would have the time, the money, or the inclination to come to the playa. From my understanding, a *real* shaman would use chemistry for 1, maybe 2, reasons--*he* is performing a ritual. Or he is training an apprentice. I don't think that either case is prearranged by posting on e-playa.

Wow to many quotes in that....

Whats a real christian, real butist, real satanist. I think there are many different ways/levels to follow ones spiritual path and when people make the comment of blah blah blah...it ain't real (fill in the blank); your full of it. There are many different levels to practice and if it meets your spiritual needs and doesn't harm others then its a totally valid means of expressing yourself.

So please don't degrade ones beliefs because you don't feel its valid.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:12 pm

I think it's valid. I think taking it out of it's context severely comprimises it's validity. I find the whole "let's take the spiritual life of the first peoples thing, cause it's the only thing we haven't taken from them yet" to be especially creepy. Forgive me for being a middle aged woman of the world who's seen and heard her share of BS, but I think this thread is disrepectful to the community and to all the real shamans of this world. I think YOU"RE degrading the beliefs here by pretending they can be transfer like cash on paypal, pal.

Oh, and by the way, I've know several real buttists. Fine people, many of them.

Shamanism on the Playa

monkees?

monkeys