I need help!

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:55 am

Tay's book-The Girl Who Tried To Catch the Man has the last word on art at burning man.

http://burningnovel.blogspot.com/

They create because they need to create. They create for the immediacy of creation and
are content to let their creations drift away in the smoke and ash of eternity.

The Man Burns Tonight which is also fiction has some of the best descriptions of the event.
It's the first thing I would recommend for someone thinking about going.

I guess you've read This is Burning Man by now.

Post by **mdmf007** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:55 am

Gyre - 2 months would rule but just the BLM fees would be more than 9 million

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:54 am

theCryptofishist wrote:[
Hey, I have an idea. Let's have a Larry Harvey Pretentious Prose Contest, like what Larry would right if he were a collage student trying to get a good grade with the least amount of effort and thought.

Fishy retreats to bottom of bowl and starts dreaming.

He'd probably just submit a paper with a sentence like, "Burning Man is like five men intent upon eating an alligator."

Any time I want someone to understand Burning Man a little better I show them "Beyond Black Rock." Sometimes it's just from the point where the playa action starts...but then usually they want to see the whole film.

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:37 am

He'd probably just submit a paper with a sentence like, "Burning Man is like five men intent upon eating an alligator."

And each man has a different implement. One has a spoon, one a knife, one a fork, one a screwdriver, one a jackhammer, and the last has jumper cables.

(next)

B.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:18 pm

Being from Queensland the heat should be okay for you.

The two month burning man would have to be negotiated.
Everything is negotiable.
I think attendance at any one time might go down, but total would go up as people with schedule conflicts get to attend, on some weekends at least.
A count of exits would be needed.
But I don't think the basic infrastructure would have to be bigger, just longer.
If holiday camps can last three months, then I think I can do a burning man long enough to see everything and go back to visit people again.
I think the second week would be the best really after you get your bearings and are used to the altitude.
I'm in.

Post by **mdmf007** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:49 pm

BAS -thats six guys

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:12 pm

mdmf007 wrote:BAS -thats six guys

You caught it!

B.

Me2 · Post by **Me2** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:23 am

Dork wrote: What makes you think we're like-minded? ..... If we are truly like minded, they wouldn't have to search vehicles coming through the gate and the rangers would have much less to do. The only way to have a utopia is for everyone to share the same belief system. But can a society without free will really be a utopia?

You make an excellent point, however if you were to share the same belief system then wouldn't your 'free will' not encroach on the shared experience?

Me2 · Post by **Me2** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:28 am

gyre wrote:It is as much a utopia as any seven day party covered in dust and patrolled by the dea.
Don't forget the frustration and annoyance that goes along with it all.
Schlep your crap 2500 miles in a van and then huddle in a tent all day while the wind blows and your time is wasted on the playa, and then start a utopia discussion.
Or try to decide which once in a lifetime event you are going to ditch to do something else!
Try to do two months worth of stuff in a week and relax enough to enjoy it.

You sound disgruntled...if this is how u feel why do u still go? There must be something about it that makes all the cost and discomfit worth it.

Also, thanks for the book recommendations. I'll chase them up.

Me2 · Post by **Me2** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:35 am

mdmf007 - thanks for the youtube sites. They were great.

robotland - thanks for the DVD suggestion. I read about it on the BM website, so i might check it out at a later date.

RingO'Fire · Post by **RingO'Fire** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:25 am

Me2 wrote:...I'm sorry RingO'Fire, while i really appreciate ur empathy, if u plan on passing college by submitting half-arse papers like that than all u will have is a piece of paper that says u have a degree, but no real knowledge....

Yeah, I agree with you in general, but diagree with you in this particular instance. Believe me, I'm a perfectionist. Realistically, I think learning about Burningman (and possibly one day going to the event) is extremely valuable "real knowledge" that will hopefully enhance and enrich your life. Perhaps writing about Burningman & Utopianism will help you to crystallize your thoughts and feelings on these matters.

However, sometimes when you're facing an imminent deadline for some bullshit assignment, you just need to get the damn thing done in the fastest, easiest way possible - which what I was proposing. You're obviously an intelligent person, I wasn't trying to insult your intelligence. In this case, however, I think a "half-arse" paper may be exactly what is needed.

I'm a scientist; I already have two degrees and am now completing my third. I use the "real knowledge" gained from my first two degrees to earn my living everyday. So, I hear what you're saying about the "piece of paper" versus "real knowldge." Definately, you need to "know your shit", whatever "your shit" happens to be.

Being a professional scientist and aspiring engineer, I like classes, and assigments, where there is a right answer, preferably a number that is the correct result. So, I suppose that it's my scientific, analytical, quantitative bias that makes me assume that any writing assignment that involves "Burningman and Utopianism" is implicitly understood to be a bullshit humanities paper - and therefore, by my standards, something unpleasant that needs to be completed in the shortest time possible with the least amount of effort. It appears that we may have differing opinions on this matter.

Regardless, good luck on your assignment. I hope you get to make to the event some day soon.

ROF

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:02 pm

Me2 wrote:
gyre wrote:It is as much a utopia as any seven day party covered in dust and patrolled by the dea.
Don't forget the frustration and annoyance that goes along with it all.
Schlep your crap 2500 miles in a van and then huddle in a tent all day while the wind blows and your time is wasted on the playa, and then start a utopia discussion.
Or try to decide which once in a lifetime event you are going to ditch to do something else!
Try to do two months worth of stuff in a week and relax enough to enjoy it.
You sound disgruntled...if this is how u feel why do u still go? There must be something about it that makes all the cost and discomfit worth it.

Disgruntled?
Did I mention the once in a lifetime experiences?
The party atmosphere you can get anywhere you have a captive group, such as a cruise or a holiday camp.
Or even Provincetown in season.
Everybody is there for entertainment.
So that's not really special.

I tell people I came for the art cars and go back for the people.
The best thing is meeting people with the same sense of humour and attitudes I have.
And for anyone who wants it, there is a chance to have an immediate impact on your environment.
This is very empowering for anyone that doesn't have that opportunity in everyday life.
And it's all for fun.
You realize very quickly what drove people to put up stonehenge and things like it and why.

A friend was talking about going to an event that was non-judgemental and loving and so on.
Burning Man is very judgemental and contentious.
And anyone will be quite happy to argue with you about most anything, and usually no hard feelings.
But they do expect you to have an opinion.
And the positive feedback is voiced more readily than negative.
You don't usually get that in everyday life.

And I love the feeling of freedom I get out there.
I wanted that sense I get in Amsterdam that whatever I want to do, everyone will try to tolerate it.
And it's there when you walk down the street.

Something I can't explain to you is the overwhelming number of choices there are out there.
That is the most transforming part of the experience.
Not what you choose, just having the choices.
Most haven't experienced that since they were five years old.

In his book, Capt. Fun says,
"It's one of the few places in the world where you can walk down the street and say to your friend, "Look at that! I've never seen anything like that in my life!"
And your friend looks and says,
Which thing? Which one?"

PlayaViking · Post by **PlayaViking** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:44 pm

And another view,

I don't think it's a community or a society or anything like that. I think that it is a place, a space where you can agree to give others the lattitude that they seek and to get that in return. It's a great drawing board upon which you can be anything you wish and you can experience the spectacle of others being what and who they dream up.

Yes, there is work involved in keeping yourself alive ie. shelter , food , water etc... and expense, oh the expense... but really in my mind, it is like a waking dream where you drift about watching all manner of creatures move past you until your senses become excited by the ability to accept what you see and to expect the unexpected.

Someone is there making a city but I don't know who they are. Someone builds the set, someone lays out the land, someone even cleans out the porta-pots on a very regular basis! But for me, Burningman is a great circus where a fantastical figure moving through the billowing dust is the most grand event you've ever experienced. Where in a fleeting glimpse of the extraordinary was a moment that only your eyes saw. A great stage where a single person can become a parade. Yea OK, you get it.

And yes, people who go can lose a sence of objectivity. Because it's hard to be objective about your own imagination. I can remember being on the platform below the man a few years ago looking down on a large and magical group of people moving across the Playa all dressed in white. There were white banners and white flags and white hats and white hair and all manner of things white. What might that be I wondered. They strode along with a great sense of pourpose. They strode along in a great procession, they seemed to have a leader... they seemed to be floating into the distance. I stood transfixed as they went (and trust me, you can watch someone for a really long time on the Playa). I heard someone ask what that was moving into the distance. " A wedding " someone said.

Me2 · Post by **Me2** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:20 pm

So, I suppose that it's my scientific, analytical, quantitative bias that makes me assume that any writing assignment that involves "Burningman and Utopianism" is implicitly understood to be a bullshit humanities paper - and therefore, by my standards, something unpleasant that needs to be completed in the shortest time possible with the least amount of effort. It appears that we may have differing opinions on this matter. ROF

I'm glad to hear from u again RingO'Fire, i was worried i'd offended u. I'm glad u recognize that we all have a bias. No knowledge can be truely objective, even scientific knowledge. All knowledge is gendered, classed and raced according to those producing it, whether consciously or unconsciously.

Science is your thing and that's great! Arts is my thing and it rocks my world! I cannot view my world in the same way ever again. My perspective about it and the ppl who inhabit it has changed and continues to change constantly....nothing's fixed, nothing's stable. I love it!

Thanks heaps!

Me2 · Post by **Me2** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:28 pm

And I love the feeling of freedom I get out there.
I wanted that sense I get in Amsterdam that whatever I want to do, everyone will try to tolerate it.
And it's there when you walk down the street.

Something I can't explain to you is the overwhelming number of choices there are out there.
That is the most transforming part of the experience.
Not what you choose, just having the choices.
Most haven't experienced that since they were five years old.

Thanks gyre,

This is the sort of feedback i've been longing for- what really draws ppl into the desert, what it is that keeps them coming back year after year.

You've helped me to really 'see' it. I'm very grateful.

Me2 · Post by **Me2** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:38 pm

PlayaViking wrote:And another view,

I don't think it's a community or a society or anything like that. I think that it is a place, a space where you can agree to give others the lattitude that they seek and to get that in return. It's a great drawing board upon which you can be anything you wish and you can experience the spectacle of others being what and who they dream up.....And yes, people who go can lose a sence of objectivity. Because it's hard to be objective about your own imagination.

PlayaViking this is fantastic; i was starting to get disheartened because i wasn't reading anything with any real love or positive attitude in it. I think it's human nature to focus on the negative aspects of happenings, but thankyou for your own personal perspective. I really appreciate what u wrote.

Me2 · Post by **Me2** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:18 am

If u could use only one word to explain why u go to Burning Man what would that one word be?? (and no this is not a tongue twister)

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:42 am

Ticket.

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:16 am

How do you concentrate "Because its there!" down to one word?

Curiosity?

B.

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:23 am

Me2 wrote:If u could use only one word to explain why u go to Burning Man what would that one word be?? (and no this is not a tongue twister)

Fuck, can you give us one word that would explain why we should even attempt to help you with you lazy ass way of finding out "what it is all aboot".

By the way not one person has givin you the REAL reason why they go to burningman. Not one person has expressed why they even post here.

Some people are meant to be a part of this, some are not. are you Me2?

You'll never know if you don't go.

skygod · Post by **skygod** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:55 am

Burning Man is not a Utopia.
Utopia is people's attempts to share truth and beauty through art.
The yearning is utopia, what we end up with is a camping trip in a desert museum.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:29 am

wedeliver wrote:
Me2 wrote:If u could use only one word to explain why u go to Burning Man what would that one word be?? (and no this is not a tongue twister) :wink:

Fuck, can you give us one word that would explain why we should even attempt to help you with you lazy ass way of finding out "what it is all aboot".

By the way not one person has givin you the REAL reason why they go to burningman. Not one person has expressed why they even post here.

Some people are meant to be a part of this, some are not. are you Me2?

You'll never know if you don't go.

So why do you think I go?

I knew I was born to burn long before I got there.
But the vague 'you have to be there' bullshit kept me from getting there a lot sooner.
When I finally talked to a longtime burner (Howard beach) I knew I wouldn't be wasting my time on a big retrohippie event.
The webhouse was of no help to me, especially with virtually no net access then.
By the time I knew what burning man was, life started interfering and it took me a long time to get there.

It's very expensive just to show up from where I live.

There is a lot more info available now.
I do think the org does a poor job of explaining what the event is like.
This may explain a lot of the people that come from the west that aren't going to like it.

All it would have taken for me is reading some of the Man Burns Tonight.
Five minutes of conversation with the right person told me more than the years of org literature (including the info with the tickets I bought).
A lot of what I originally came for was long gone when I arrived.

So why do you think I go?

Me2 · Post by **Me2** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:22 pm

Fuck, can you give us one word that would explain why we should even attempt to help you with you lazy ass way of finding out "what it is all aboot".
By the way not one person has givin you the REAL reason why they go to burningman. Not one person has expressed why they even post here.
Some people are meant to be a part of this, some are not. are you Me2?
You'll never know if you don't go.

The reality is that in the near future (say in the next year or maybe two) i'm not likely to go, because the cost of travelling to America for the week is inhibitive. And the angry, judgemental, elitist, "you-have-nothing-to-do-with-us-and-you-can-just-fuck-off" type ppl i encounter don't inspire me much to want to be a part of it either. I can get angry hostility right where i live!

Here's a few words for you; how about acceptance, kindness, openness-some of the basic things that are missing in society.

How do YOU know ppl haven't given the REAL reasons? And how do you suggest i find out all about it?

Knee-jerk hostility is lazy. I'm making an effort. If u don't want to help me that's fine...go play somewhere else.

Me2 · Post by **Me2** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:29 pm

How do you concentrate "Because its there!" down to one word?
Curiosity?

How 'bout "Belonging"??

Do u really go just because it's there, or is it because you have a sense of belonging when u do go?

Also you're free to go "there"- so how about "freedom"?

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:56 pm

Me2 wrote:
How do you concentrate "Because its there!" down to one word?
Curiosity?

How 'bout "Belonging"??

Do u really go just because it's there, or is it because you have a sense of belonging when u do go?

Also you're free to go "there"- so how about "freedom"?

YES

Gizmo · Post by **Gizmo** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:24 pm

There are many reasons I go to Burningman, but one of them is
"where else on the planet are you going to see this?"

or this?

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:40 pm

Me2 wrote:
How do you concentrate "Because its there!" down to one word?
Curiosity?

How 'bout "Belonging"??

Do u really go just because it's there, or is it because you have a sense of belonging when u do go?

Also you're free to go "there"- so how about "freedom"?

No, I think curiosity is a better term for me.

Belonging I can get hanging out with my friends and their cats, watching various programs on television (and doing a running commentary, like Mystery Science Theater 3000 used to, during most of them). Or any of a variety of local things.

Freedom, well, yes, I do have a bit more of that there. There is no one expecting me to be up at a given time, or to show up somewhere and do something. Then again, I could get that by going on a camping trip pretty much anywhere else. Or even by staying home (whenever I get my own place again, that is) and sleeping in. And, by staying in town, I could even go out and easily grab a meal somewhere if I don't feel like cooking. (At BM I would have to do some looking-- I tend to know where to find a restaurant locally.)

Burning Man I get to see how others express themselves. It challenges my preconceptions, helps to get me to think. Maybe it makes me a bit of a tourist, but I prefer to view my being there as a learning experience. (It could also be part of the answer as to why I like role playing games-- where I get to play the part of someone other than me, and get to work with a different outlook in a different world. [Maybe someday I will mention how someone I used to know comment on how me and this other guy were two of the most liberal people he knew, but in this one game it was our characters who were always the first to bring out the guns and start shooting!

])

Curiosity is why I wanted to go for years, and went for the first time last year when circumstances finally came together. I'd heard about Burning Man for years, and figured the only way to find out what it was really like was to go. I want to go back to see what it is like next time around. I missed a lot of things in 2006 (and, seeing some of the pictures, I wonder HOW I missed some of the things!). Plus, I was sick last year, and would like to try the event when I am healthy. Additionally, there is new stuff every year.

Oh, and it will give me an excuse to do a bunch of other stuff I have been curious about: alternative energy, building stuff, how well I would like wearing a kilt, etc.*

B.

*Not that I really need an excuse for any of these, but it does set a date for me to get things done, and I don't know how well job hunting while wearing a kilt would work. (Eh, I need to get the job first so I have money for a kilt.

)

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:55 pm

Me2 wrote:
Fuck, can you give us one word that would explain why we should even attempt to help you with you lazy ass way of finding out "what it is all aboot".
By the way not one person has givin you the REAL reason why they go to burningman. Not one person has expressed why they even post here.
Some people are meant to be a part of this, some are not. are you Me2?
You'll never know if you don't go.
The reality is that in the near future (say in the next year or maybe two) i'm not likely to go, because the cost of travelling to America for the week is inhibitive. And the angry, judgemental, elitist, "you-have-nothing-to-do-with-us-and-you-can-just-fuck-off" type ppl i encounter don't inspire me much to want to be a part of it either. I can get angry hostility right where i live!

Here's a few words for you; how about acceptance, kindness, openness-some of the basic things that are missing in society.

How do YOU know ppl haven't given the REAL reasons? And how do you suggest i find out all about it?

Knee-jerk hostility is lazy. I'm making an effort. If u don't want to help me that's fine...go play somewhere else.

Here in the states we/I have a saying. fuck ya if you can't take a joke, and joke ya if you can't take a fuck. If you noticed I answered your question. FUCK. (your question of what one word best...) Then I complained that you might use my simple answer "FUCK" to help with your paper and that would not be correct. You have to understand the core feeling involved. If you thought I was being rude, please read my other posts, usually I try and be helpful, but perhaps I try and be helpful for those I understand, rather then someone who might take what we say and make some determination. As Gyre points out (i think) some people might inspire you to attend with their explanation of the event and what you get from it. But the reality is, no one can tell you what your experience will be and brother it will be unique. So, your attempt to write a knowledgeable paper without attending is in my opinion wrong and can't be done. l am suprised at myself for saying this because I think I am very open minded but thats my take.

Ok, now to answer your post above. Sometimes the written word seems more hostile then speaking in person, I mean you no bad feelings. But..big but. why don't you write about the type of people you might meet at the BurningMan Web Site... that you can claim real first hand knowledge. (have you read other posts or just the replies you have generated?? I notice you have made no posts other then the ones on this thread".) So your review and research paper will be bogus in my opinion.

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 7:17 am

Where did he go?? I wasn't trying to scare ya away Mr. Paperbook writer... just giving a little..... as requested.... wazzzz up?

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:10 am

Me2 wrote:If u could use only one word to explain why u go to Burning Man what would that one word be?? (and no this is not a tongue twister)

shirtcocking

I need help!

The Sixty Days of Burning Man

Society

Re: Society

I have a question...?

Re: I have a question...?

Re: I have a question...?

Re: I have a question...?

Re: I have a question...?

Re: I have a question...?