burningman trademark question

[gyre]

I'm trying to imagine someone too poor to eat setting up a BM begsite for party money. Are genuinely starving people really a consideration here? That said, BM is creative sustenance for a hungry spirit.

Someone rode in with us in 2005 who was homeless, truly long term homeless.
He slept outside my tent in the wind the first night.
When I found him outside I asked him why he hadn't knocked and come in.
He said he was fine, that he just needed a windblock.
I didn't see him the rest of the event.
I imagine he went to work in a big camp.
So the very poor do make it sometimes.
Of course, he had no bills or a wife and baby and no debt, so he could have been worse off financially.
I hope he found a better situation after burning man than he had before.
The less money you have, I think the more you need the experience.

I hope I can do a really over the top art car for everyone one of these days.

[mojo]

"Actually that just sounds mean."

I warned you that it sounded snarky....

"I guess those people aren't entitled to try to contribute to burning man?"

Entitled? No, an art festival is just not an entitlement.

"We just got some living wage proposals passed locally.
A few weeks ago I had someone come to my door begging for food.
They live in a shed with a wife and baby behind someone's house.
And they have a job.
I doubt they will make it to burning man though."

That's likely very wise on their part. I believe that most of us have been through times that we have had to put pleasure trips aside for the welfare of ourselves and our families. - Let's please get some perspective on this.

"I am told more people attend from other countries than from the east side of the usa.
That is a huge loss of creativity."

Because they live far away, their creativity is lost? Maybe it is not displayed at a specific venue but to consider it "lost" is someone taking themselves, and this event, WAY too seriously.

"Someone suggested last year I shouldn't attend burning man if I don't have enough disposable income.
Is burning man just for the rich?"

Apparently, since you have asked, it's for anyone who can get a ticket (and there are several ways to accomplish that requiring little or no money), and get themselves there with enough simple supplies to survive.

I hope you don't misunderstand my post as unsympathetic of those in poverty. Poverty is a completely different issue than someone who is soliciting on the web for money to rent three minivans to go to a big camping trip in the desert.

Please don't miss the real point of my rant which is the use of the Burning Man name in solicitation. The thing I struggle with in this is that I believe in the philanthropy of supporting the arts in many forms - especially the grass roots forms. But if I choose to give funds to someone officially using the name, should I be able to expect that they have reviewed many projects and divided up what limited resources there are in a thoughtful manner?

[gyre]

I thought it was pretty clear they were not trying to represent themselves as anything official.
And I am expecting they are putting as much as they have into their expenses.
But run the numbers for a 4000 or 5000 mile trip.
It takes an alarming turn.
I think that, like me, they are just ambitious with what they want to do.
I have been donated an extraordinary piece of art that would be perfect for the playa.
The artist actually built it on wheels.
He is not a burner, except by birth.
When I found him and talked to him about it, he immediately offered it to me to take out there, and said I could burn it, which I won't do.
But I can't afford to get it there now.

The most serious burners here took big projects for seven years.
With the effort and cost of going the great distance from here, they burned out.
They don't go anymore.
As a curiosity, you can't get there from here.
There is no direct route.
It is the same distance from here to SF as it is from here to Gerlach, as a consequence.
Some people appreciate this, but most can't grasp that to attend from this distance can cost more than coming from LA and doing a small theme camp.
It takes a huge leap of faith to make that first trip.
And when you get there, the first thing you hear is,
"Why don't you have any costumes?
I've been buying costumes all year.
Why didn't you do that?"
I think I left the ice store and target in reno completely broke.
And I still haven't afforded the money to replace my stolen tent either.
There are NO casual burners from the east coast.

When I spoke of the loss of creativity, I mean the loss to those of us who attend.
People create these things for themselves, but also for us.
We lose the most from this.
In addition to transport costs being perhaps 90% of the expense of a big project, those of us outside of california are told to follow fundraising rules that virtually kill the kind of projects done easily in LA or SF.
That seems totally absurd to me.
It is like a big game on eplaya to pretend that big projects are all funded by magical faeries.

[bronco2121]

gyre wrote:

>>>It is like a big game on eplaya to pretend that big projects are all funded by magical faeries.

aside from the above, the assumption that burningman somehow has a softspot for the poor is laughable. it is not an event for poor people - it's hardly an event for even minorities. and the notion that it's going 'green' is... i mean: come on... don't drag the 'poor' through whatever attempt y'all are making at a point in order to combat the issue of shameless official peddling of crap.

regarding pretending the big projects are magically funded - who cares about big projects? are massive art projects what burningman is about? there's this idea that the art must get bigger and more conceptual and interactive. this justifies the selling calendars and DVDs and $250-a-ticket parties, among other things. it's BS.

B!

[gyre]

I was actually talking about private fund raising for projects.

The event is really a celebration of the great wealth of our culture that the poorest people on the playa can even participate in something so extravagant.
It makes me a bit ashamed to enjoy the commerce on the playa which is based on hardship and subsistence economies of universal reciprocity.
The people who live by these would scarcely recognize our version with it's luxury and choices.
It wouldn't seem so utopian if we were using it to preserve the population through drought or bad hunting.

I'm not the first person to note the silliness of fussing about fund raising off the playa, when virtually every person's participation is affected by commerce somewhere.
Some people's commerce is widely separated from their burning man experience, so we pretend that is somehow more pure.
It's a gift economy, powered by millions of dollars that someone bartered for.
And it was only done to stop state tax officials from looting the event.
I applaud that cleverness.
But let's not pretend we are something we aren't.

[BAS]

Let's see:

gas is almost back up to $3/gallon, so I think that would be a safe amount to use for this summer.

4,000 mile round trip at 20 mpg= 200 gallons. 200 gallons times $3.00 per gallon = $600.

At a distance of 4,000 a car should have the oil changed. Off hand I am not certain how much an oil change costs. $20.00?

2,000 miles at 60 miles per hour would be about 33.33 hours, if driven straight through, non-stop. A good portion of the way can be driven faster than that, but I doubt anyone would drive straight through, so call the trip two days. At some point food will be required, so either stopping to get food will add to the cost, or else extra food would need to be taken. Maybe $5 per meal? That would make $15 per day, for two days out, two days back. $60 for meals for the trip.

So far I am at $680 dollars for a 4,000 mile round trip. I'm going to stop for now, since I need to get to bed.


B.

[mdmf007]

And when you get there, the first thing you hear is,
"Why don't you have any costumes?
I've been buying costumes all year.
Why didn't you do that?".

Whoever asked you where your costume is is a putz. Correct me i I am wrong but isnt BM about choices - freedom to display or not display is your right as well.

I would have stripped off my clothes and told them I brought my skin suit.

later.

[gyre]

My costume is 'burning man guy'.

I was so happy to be there I don't remember what I said.
At times I have said something about being out of uniform or told people to go fuck themselves.
Some people have actually offered to do something about it.
So Fishy has fixed me up with some snazzy stuff.
And one other time...all I can say is, when someone dresses you, make sure you know how it comes off.

Next year I'm thinking of all khaki with a fraternity shirt.
Unless someone can loan me a blm uniform.
I want to write tickets for insufficient shakra, failure to meditate, out of uniform.
Everybody meditates here!
Ready...1, 2, 3...You there! You're not meditating!

[bronco2121]

all good points. but be careful not to promote your costume as 'your burningman costume' (not even while at camp). it's important to use the indefinite article: 'a burningman costume'... never: 'your burningman costume'.

this is to further protect the trademark (which is the subject of the thread, BTW).

B!

[gyre]

That's funny.

But I'm the guy that wore a handmade mickey mouse shirt to disney world or land.
The disney mafia was on me in minutes.
Interestingly, I'm told that disney, the king of copyrights, has stolen an idea of mine for a ride.

[BAS]

Interestingly, I'm told that disney, the king of copyrights, has stolen an idea of mine for a ride.

Well, of course! Copyrights only apply to people other than Disney. Don't be silly! (And, heaven forbid, don't even think about being Goofy!)


B.

[nocturnal_steve]

Here's how the rest of us do it....

1) Get a job

2) Open a savings account

3) Get good at your job, get a raise, save money.

DITTO

BM is NOT an entitlement.

I appreciate you want to "build domes, host events, and put on some reasonably impressive performances" but part of BM is about RADICAL SELF RELIANCE . If you have the resources to organize, perform, put up website, why not design a site for some local business's, get paid for it, maybe hire yourselves out to decorate and entertain at kids birthday parties etc ? Start getting creative NOW, look for rideshares, there is a group from the east coast that shares an entire semi truck size shipping container; the RV suggestion was great as ( perhaps sharing ) one RV will be more economical on gas than driveing three minivans out... you get the idea !

[gyre]

On the west coast, some of you don't seem to understand the higher costs and lack of fund raising chances that are so available in the west.
Many of us spend more to arrive than it costs to attend from cali and do a theme camp too.
Are you telling people to quit holding fund raisers in california too?