Beyond bad commentaryApollonaris Zeus wrote:I heard that in the great anticipation of having a great time on the playa, he took too much of his party stash and began to have oral sex with one of his flight passengers. at the time of his orgasim, he had a spasm that pushed his body into the throttle slowing the engine then another spasm pushed his rear into the avalons causing the plane to lurch up and stall.
He died a happy man and enjoyed the burn from a view that only spirits can.
He is now in a solar system far on the other side of the universe where he has started a burning man festival and wishes every one back on earth all the love and fun he can and hopes for a great burn this year and hopes you pay him a visit after your life here!
2003 Plane crash at BRC airport
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helitack
- Posts: 4140
- Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:00 pm
- Burning Since: 2004
- Location: A secret, undisclosed location in TexMexistan...
Actively helping President Trump build the wall
Winning hearts and minds in lovely TexMexistan...
Winning hearts and minds in lovely TexMexistan...
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Lassen Forge
- Posts: 5320
- Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:35 pm
- Location: Where it's always... Wednesday. Don't lose your head over it.
Personally, either that post was in really bad taste or an attempt at humor falling flat. Personally, I'm kinda shocked at what you wrote, and were I one of the family I'd be kinda offended.Apollonaris Zeus wrote:I heard that in the great anticipation of having a great time on the playa, he ...
Seriously, AZ, what are you proving with this? What was the real purpose of that post?
bb
My wife flew in to the 2005 burn on Thursday afternoon. I was nervous all day, the pilot was someone we met on Craigslist, veteran burner and nice guy, but still a stranger. Waiting at the airport a huge wind = dust storm kicked up while their plane was still about 20 miles out. I was beside myself i was so worried. Luckily the nice folks at the airport bar were able to assuage my fear and take my mind off things with some calming margaritas and a firm paddling of my bare ass. The storm died down and they arrived fine. While waiting there my friend and several others were invited up for a flight over the playa. If you have never been out there go visit the airport, you may be invited up for a flight... or at least get your ass paddled. when my virgin wife arrived her husband had the letters O U C H in raised welts on his ass.
Darkness is an ally, but still light yourself at night!
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theCryptofishist
- Posts: 40312
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
- Burning Since: 2017
- Location: In Exile
As a member of the family (at least in the ESD family) of the OTHER (non-fatal) crash I AM offended. NOt to mention what happened to Scott.Bay Bridge Sue wrote:Personally, either that post was in really bad taste or an attempt at humor falling flat. Personally, I'm kinda shocked at what you wrote, and were I one of the family I'd be kinda offended.Apollonaris Zeus wrote:I heard that in the great anticipation of having a great time on the playa, he ...
For what it's worth.
The Lady with a Lamprey
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
Some folks just can't control themselves.Bay Bridge Sue wrote:Personally, either that post was in really bad taste or an attempt at humor falling flat. Personally, I'm kinda shocked at what you wrote, and were I one of the family I'd be kinda offended.Apollonaris Zeus wrote:I heard that in the great anticipation of having a great time on the playa, he ...
Seriously, AZ, what are you proving with this? What was the real purpose of that post?
bb
This account has been closed as demanded by Wedeliver.
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Apollonaris Zeus
- Posts: 3716
- Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am
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Glittering Clitoris
- Posts: 128
- Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 10:09 pm
- Location: Seattle
flight crash
I believe I saw that plane coming down. What really happened.
Law
So who here is looking for a payoff from a lawsuit? I have to ask because I'm jaded by people trolling for stuff to back their wild claims.
Ya, I know all about that stuff. People fuck up in planes all the time, not just at BM.
Flying is safe, if you control for events, and weather. It's not like a car or a motercycle where you have people effecting things by talking on their cell. You choose to fly, or not that day.
I was the first airplane to land after the crash at the airport on my way back from someplace that day, and the air at that end of the playa was crap (long story about landing two mile north because the airspace was closed.) Lots of things went wrong, but he is gone, and the airport has done a better job than any group of people I've ever seen getting the word out about their airport.
I looked into his record, he was a bit low in time to be flying that kind of plane in the conditions, with three other people, and wind like that. But YMMV.
Ya, I know all about that stuff. People fuck up in planes all the time, not just at BM.
Flying is safe, if you control for events, and weather. It's not like a car or a motercycle where you have people effecting things by talking on their cell. You choose to fly, or not that day.
I was the first airplane to land after the crash at the airport on my way back from someplace that day, and the air at that end of the playa was crap (long story about landing two mile north because the airspace was closed.) Lots of things went wrong, but he is gone, and the airport has done a better job than any group of people I've ever seen getting the word out about their airport.
I looked into his record, he was a bit low in time to be flying that kind of plane in the conditions, with three other people, and wind like that. But YMMV.
Laika and me went on a ride.
What are you talking about?
Any lawsuit would have been filed long ago.
And I would remind you the tort process is exactly the way big companies like it, though they now want to gut even that.
I support tort reform provided it includes criminalization of negligence.
When I proposed that at a hearing about medical malpractice, the issue was abruptly dropped.
And I have yet to hear a criticism of the brc airport.
Any lawsuit would have been filed long ago.
And I would remind you the tort process is exactly the way big companies like it, though they now want to gut even that.
I support tort reform provided it includes criminalization of negligence.
When I proposed that at a hearing about medical malpractice, the issue was abruptly dropped.
And I have yet to hear a criticism of the brc airport.
"Everything is more wonderful when you do it with a car, don't you think?"
-girl by the fire, watching a tree moved by car bumper in the bonfire
It would be a shame if I had to resort to self-deception to preserve my faith in objective reality.
-girl by the fire, watching a tree moved by car bumper in the bonfire
It would be a shame if I had to resort to self-deception to preserve my faith in objective reality.
"tort process is exactly the way big companies like it, though they now want to gut even that."
Not.
Anyone who whould say that is just what I was talking about, or has no grip on the facts. Yes, big companies do have big law firms....but there is a HUGE industry set up to carve the bucks out of anyone unlucky enough to be involved in the day to day distruction that is every day life (it seems to be quite balanced really.) These awards, these lawsuits do not one thing to make things better for the common middle class person, and in my view are a take. They have not brought one person back from the dead yet, and restrict the further development of equipment that might really save people. It's hard to spend money on something that might or might not work if you are going to be sued because you changed it. My airplane still has tractor ignition because the market is to small for engineers to take a risk making something better(only one example).
Yes big compnies do bad things, as they are run by people, still, you paint with too big a brush.
In anycase, I don't know if the lawsuit is on going. Some of them take years and years, with very poor work done by people who don't know shit about anything, and by the time I get them, the fucking truth is six layers down in a box of photos.
Always go with the science, and not what you would like the outcome to be, large corp or small family.
In this case, the airplane was making lots of power, I looked it over myself.
But hey, don't call me if you want to sue the engine or airplane manufacture. Because you won't like what I have to say about what happened if you think there was something wrong with that airplane.
~rant off~
Not.
Anyone who whould say that is just what I was talking about, or has no grip on the facts. Yes, big companies do have big law firms....but there is a HUGE industry set up to carve the bucks out of anyone unlucky enough to be involved in the day to day distruction that is every day life (it seems to be quite balanced really.) These awards, these lawsuits do not one thing to make things better for the common middle class person, and in my view are a take. They have not brought one person back from the dead yet, and restrict the further development of equipment that might really save people. It's hard to spend money on something that might or might not work if you are going to be sued because you changed it. My airplane still has tractor ignition because the market is to small for engineers to take a risk making something better(only one example).
Yes big compnies do bad things, as they are run by people, still, you paint with too big a brush.
In anycase, I don't know if the lawsuit is on going. Some of them take years and years, with very poor work done by people who don't know shit about anything, and by the time I get them, the fucking truth is six layers down in a box of photos.
Always go with the science, and not what you would like the outcome to be, large corp or small family.
In this case, the airplane was making lots of power, I looked it over myself.
But hey, don't call me if you want to sue the engine or airplane manufacture. Because you won't like what I have to say about what happened if you think there was something wrong with that airplane.
~rant off~
Laika and me went on a ride.
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Green Wood
- Posts: 197
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 6:05 pm
- Location: Somewhere beyond the Rainbow
Re: Law
I can't believe what I'm reading, First AZ now Zona!Zona wrote:So who here is looking for a payoff from a lawsuit? I have to ask because I'm jaded by people trolling for stuff to back their wild claims.
Ya, I know all about that stuff. People fuck up in planes all the time, not just at BM.
Flying is safe, if you control for events, and weather. It's not like a car or a motercycle where you have people effecting things by talking on their cell. You choose to fly, or not that day.
I was the first airplane to land after the crash at the airport on my way back from someplace that day, and the air at that end of the playa was crap (long story about landing two mile north because the airspace was closed.) Lots of things went wrong, but he is gone, and the airport has done a better job than any group of people I've ever seen getting the word out about their airport.
I looked into his record, he was a bit low in time to be flying that kind of plane in the conditions, with three other people, and wind like that. But YMMV.
What kind of feelings do you have for Htrammel and the loss of his friend. Now your talking a lawsuit!
Zona you are a cold person. AZ your just living in your own world!
I might be green, but I can burn brite with the help of my playa friends!
Friend
If he was a close friend, why would this person come here to ask questions. I ment no disrespect, but he did ask about what happened. It's an old sad story we have been sad about for a long time. Trust me when I say none of us will forget that day.
So I'm cold, so what? I look at dead people all day and try and keep it from happening again. If that is cold, well ok.
Kind of like a doctor is when things go south(oh yes, there was a lawsuit.)
But that is enough, I will say no more about it.
So I'm cold, so what? I look at dead people all day and try and keep it from happening again. If that is cold, well ok.
Kind of like a doctor is when things go south(oh yes, there was a lawsuit.)
But that is enough, I will say no more about it.
Laika and me went on a ride.
Re: Law
Okay everbody, just breathe.Zona wrote:So who here is looking for a payoff from a lawsuit? I have to ask because I'm jaded by people trolling for stuff to back their wild claims.
Ya, I know all about that stuff. People fuck up in planes all the time, not just at BM.
Flying is safe, if you control for events, and weather. It's not like a car or a motercycle where you have people effecting things by talking on their cell. You choose to fly, or not that day.
I was the first airplane to land after the crash at the airport on my way back from someplace that day, and the air at that end of the playa was crap (long story about landing two mile north because the airspace was closed.) Lots of things went wrong, but he is gone, and the airport has done a better job than any group of people I've ever seen getting the word out about their airport.
I looked into his record, he was a bit low in time to be flying that kind of plane in the conditions, with three other people, and wind like that. But YMMV.
AZ - yes it was prolly considered bad taste by some, I'd certainly hate for his family to read it. That said, having been a skydiver and been around the aviation biz for a long time, I've likely said worse. Don't sweat it.
Zona - Not trolling for a lawsuit. Just asking if anybody could tell me what happened, first hand. I was out at the wreckage and I'm aware it was making power at impact. I don't doubt the NTSB report or the general concensus that he got behind the power curve. Just wondering if anyone could flesh it out a bit. Hell, we thought everyone was going to be okay. It wasn't until we drove out after the temple burn that I spoke with his family and found out the bad news. I dislike the current state of affairs with aviation/ crash related lawsuits as much as you. No legal interest, just wondering about a friend/ coworker.
As I said in my original post. This will be my first trip to the playa since then, just looking for closure.
Cool
Well in that case, I will tell you the sad story as I know it if you find me on the playa. I camp at the airport, Tiger knows who I am (she might not admit it however, as she is very protective, bless her.) I understand why you might want to know more. I can say that people at the airport will not be too responsive, as they are worried about the samethings as I am. It's our camp, and we want to protect it, and have it be a happy place.
Laika and me went on a ride.
I am well aware of the limitations in upgrades available to aircraft due to the licensing process and it is one of the more bizarre and unfortunate consequences of a tort process engineered to protect those with huge amounts of money.
I am sure you are aware that everything you cannot add to your craft is often readily available already, but is not licensed or is marked up when it is.
You can purchase the same products easily when they are labeled for 'experimental' aircraft that are prohibited in the case of a Cessna or Beechcraft.
This is a problem that has been addressed in the automotive aftermarket and could be dealt with, but has not been.
The only fundamental difference is the fragility of aircraft.
Engine failure in a car can and has been a dangerous thing in an auto, but clearly it is more important in aircraft.
But the problem could certainly be addressed better than it has.
It appears to be much more a problem of type certification than liability and the tort process.
I can assure you that only a tiny, tiny fraction of legitimate lawsuits ever get brought, much less won, due to the costs involved.
This is the way the big companies like it.
BMW had the nerve to bitch about tort reform after they got caught DEFRAUDING their customers.
The famous mcdonalds "frivolous" lawsuit is actually a work of PR genius.
In fact, mcdonalds got nailed for obstructing justice, perjury and fraud.
The woman who had third degree burns on her crotch had only asked for medical expenses.
There had been over 60 similar lawsuits.
They lied to the judge about that, as they continue to lie about it.
In other countries they would get jail time for that.
The big companies love our system and the people who buy into it.
Rather than bore everyone, email me and I'll be happy to take you up close and personal with our legal system, after you have nearly been killed by malpractice.
Only the most lucrative cases are taken for free.
It costs $50,000 to start a case.
The hospitals set that watermark.
Judgements are not high enough to impel responsible behavior because most cases go away.
A hospital decided to practice ethical medicine a few years ago, actively informing patients of error instead of obstruction and lying.
Their claim rate multiplied.
Their settlement expenses in total dropped steeply.
Anyone could have told them that would happen.
Yet it is a rare novelty.
They have admitted responsibility routinely, yet their reputation has improved.
It seems most people have a problem with being lied to about medical care.
Ethical behavior by a company.
Who knew it would pay off?
Legal costs have become almost nonexistent.
Attorneys play the cards they are dealt by companies and our legal system.
People with influence write these rules and for cause.
It may not be smart, but someone thinks it is.
Of course, weird product liability fallout is just a small part of the hidden costs of the current system.
How many people end up on disability or compensated in some other way after being unable to collect on a legitimate claim?
It is a far higher number than those who collect anything.
I am sure you are aware that everything you cannot add to your craft is often readily available already, but is not licensed or is marked up when it is.
You can purchase the same products easily when they are labeled for 'experimental' aircraft that are prohibited in the case of a Cessna or Beechcraft.
This is a problem that has been addressed in the automotive aftermarket and could be dealt with, but has not been.
The only fundamental difference is the fragility of aircraft.
Engine failure in a car can and has been a dangerous thing in an auto, but clearly it is more important in aircraft.
But the problem could certainly be addressed better than it has.
It appears to be much more a problem of type certification than liability and the tort process.
I can assure you that only a tiny, tiny fraction of legitimate lawsuits ever get brought, much less won, due to the costs involved.
This is the way the big companies like it.
BMW had the nerve to bitch about tort reform after they got caught DEFRAUDING their customers.
The famous mcdonalds "frivolous" lawsuit is actually a work of PR genius.
In fact, mcdonalds got nailed for obstructing justice, perjury and fraud.
The woman who had third degree burns on her crotch had only asked for medical expenses.
There had been over 60 similar lawsuits.
They lied to the judge about that, as they continue to lie about it.
In other countries they would get jail time for that.
The big companies love our system and the people who buy into it.
Rather than bore everyone, email me and I'll be happy to take you up close and personal with our legal system, after you have nearly been killed by malpractice.
Only the most lucrative cases are taken for free.
It costs $50,000 to start a case.
The hospitals set that watermark.
Judgements are not high enough to impel responsible behavior because most cases go away.
A hospital decided to practice ethical medicine a few years ago, actively informing patients of error instead of obstruction and lying.
Their claim rate multiplied.
Their settlement expenses in total dropped steeply.
Anyone could have told them that would happen.
Yet it is a rare novelty.
They have admitted responsibility routinely, yet their reputation has improved.
It seems most people have a problem with being lied to about medical care.
Ethical behavior by a company.
Who knew it would pay off?
Legal costs have become almost nonexistent.
Attorneys play the cards they are dealt by companies and our legal system.
People with influence write these rules and for cause.
It may not be smart, but someone thinks it is.
Of course, weird product liability fallout is just a small part of the hidden costs of the current system.
How many people end up on disability or compensated in some other way after being unable to collect on a legitimate claim?
It is a far higher number than those who collect anything.
Re: Friend
This is quite baffling to me.Zona wrote:If he was a close friend, why would this person come here to ask questions. I ment no disrespect, but he did ask about what happened. It's an old sad story we have been sad about for a long time. Trust me when I say none of us will forget that day.
So I'm cold, so what? I look at dead people all day and try and keep it from happening again. If that is cold, well ok.
Kind of like a doctor is when things go south(oh yes, there was a lawsuit.)
But that is enough, I will say no more about it.
Why wouldn't someone come here to ask about this?
On several occasions people have brought up assaults or other things on the playa, but you are castigated if you ask what the hell someone is talking about.
The same people expect you to take their side and castigate you if you don't.
You, Zona, are the only one that would lead me to think there is something being covered up.
Why would you want to cover up things if there is nothing but an unfortunate crash?
Your attitude seems guaranteed to pique interest.
Anyone who wants to fly in or out at brc would have at least a passing interest in avoiding whatever problems have occurred before.
This is why crashes are critically examined whatever the cause.
Everyone who flies has an interest in this process.
Why not talk about it?
"that would lead me to think there is something being covered up"
No.
It's just that after it happened, there was some detective work done in a different online place.
The guys family last I heard was sueing Beachcraft, the engine manufacture, ect. People were asking about things and pointing fingers, and naming names, as in most cases like this.
But yes, you talk like a lawyer, I noticed that.
In anycase, it was the oldest type of crash in avation, the base to final stall. After flying back from some hotsprings where I saw him, he was too low, to slow, and overshot the center line of the runway. To bring the airplane back to the centerline he banked it over some more and stalled it. It fell out of the turn, hit the right wing first, and then the nose of the airplane. The engine came off and departed the aircraft, and fuel was released, with no post crash fire. It was a high energy event, where the pilots head and neck connected with the panel. He broke off the yoke with his body and arm if I remember right.
As to airplanes being frail, I have seen a Cessna that cut off two 6 inch dia trees with its wings. The people inside lived to die in the post crash fire. The pilot was showing off. And have seen the after effects of a piper cub roll 200 feet down a hill after an aborted down wind takeoff. The pilot sued after he lived though it.
Or then there is the case of the kid who was pouring gas out of a can onto a burning stick behind the house. he got burned and his parents sued the gas can maker saying the can was defective. On and on we could go.
Maybe we should stop making these medical devices if they are so hard to use. Why do they cost so much anyway? Hell, some of them are just a wire with a one use handle on them. Why do anything if there is a risk of injury, or or some fool pushing the wrong button. Mistakes will be made, and people should be held acountable. However, I just don't want to confuse advocacy with the truth and the facts.
The point is, for every fucked up case you could find from your point of view, I could find one to support my view too. But that would make me tired, and we both are half right.
Just don't fly, speed in you car, lean over the silverware in the dish washer on a wet floor, drop a working nail gun on your head, ski, get sick, go out on a wood boat (might catch on fire, they should have known that), use a battery, start your car in a closed garage without an on board CO detector that wakes you up, ride a dirt bike off 50 foot jumps, sleep in your car with your foot on the gas and the engine at full throttle, drive off a cliff when your mad at your wife and wonder why the airbag only went off once, and that will fix the problem.
No.
It's just that after it happened, there was some detective work done in a different online place.
The guys family last I heard was sueing Beachcraft, the engine manufacture, ect. People were asking about things and pointing fingers, and naming names, as in most cases like this.
But yes, you talk like a lawyer, I noticed that.
In anycase, it was the oldest type of crash in avation, the base to final stall. After flying back from some hotsprings where I saw him, he was too low, to slow, and overshot the center line of the runway. To bring the airplane back to the centerline he banked it over some more and stalled it. It fell out of the turn, hit the right wing first, and then the nose of the airplane. The engine came off and departed the aircraft, and fuel was released, with no post crash fire. It was a high energy event, where the pilots head and neck connected with the panel. He broke off the yoke with his body and arm if I remember right.
As to airplanes being frail, I have seen a Cessna that cut off two 6 inch dia trees with its wings. The people inside lived to die in the post crash fire. The pilot was showing off. And have seen the after effects of a piper cub roll 200 feet down a hill after an aborted down wind takeoff. The pilot sued after he lived though it.
Or then there is the case of the kid who was pouring gas out of a can onto a burning stick behind the house. he got burned and his parents sued the gas can maker saying the can was defective. On and on we could go.
Maybe we should stop making these medical devices if they are so hard to use. Why do they cost so much anyway? Hell, some of them are just a wire with a one use handle on them. Why do anything if there is a risk of injury, or or some fool pushing the wrong button. Mistakes will be made, and people should be held acountable. However, I just don't want to confuse advocacy with the truth and the facts.
The point is, for every fucked up case you could find from your point of view, I could find one to support my view too. But that would make me tired, and we both are half right.
Just don't fly, speed in you car, lean over the silverware in the dish washer on a wet floor, drop a working nail gun on your head, ski, get sick, go out on a wood boat (might catch on fire, they should have known that), use a battery, start your car in a closed garage without an on board CO detector that wakes you up, ride a dirt bike off 50 foot jumps, sleep in your car with your foot on the gas and the engine at full throttle, drive off a cliff when your mad at your wife and wonder why the airbag only went off once, and that will fix the problem.
Laika and me went on a ride.
I'm far from being an attorney.
Closer to being a victim of the legal system.
It sounds like this crash was the same old story.
I've always felt like I'd rather have too much speed landing than too little.
I know some aircraft are relatively tough, especially the ones that get chosen for bush work.
A Beechcraft is a pretty decent plane, from what I know.
My friend's is a Grumman.
In reference to cutting trees with a Cessna...
Don't forget the speed and inertia effect.
There was a crash of a Bonneville speedster and it clipped a number of telephone poles before stopping.
With it's paper thin aluminum and ultralight construction, everyone was sure the poles had ripped through the car.
The car was still at speed when it cut through the poles and they didn't even leave a mark on the car.
The driver survived.
I guess he hit the only solid thing on the salt flats.
It seems if he was going slower, he would have been worse off.
Trying to help my friend find exhaust and lighting upgrades for the Grumman,the type certification restrictions make me a little nuts.
I haven't had the opportunity to fly much, but I learned the mechanics of flight operation from a book when I was quite small, just as I learned the theory and physics of racing before I drove.
My friend laughed at that, but when he tested me, I still remembered how everything works.
It is a terrible thing whenever any plane goes down.
Closer to being a victim of the legal system.
It sounds like this crash was the same old story.
I've always felt like I'd rather have too much speed landing than too little.
I know some aircraft are relatively tough, especially the ones that get chosen for bush work.
A Beechcraft is a pretty decent plane, from what I know.
My friend's is a Grumman.
In reference to cutting trees with a Cessna...
Don't forget the speed and inertia effect.
There was a crash of a Bonneville speedster and it clipped a number of telephone poles before stopping.
With it's paper thin aluminum and ultralight construction, everyone was sure the poles had ripped through the car.
The car was still at speed when it cut through the poles and they didn't even leave a mark on the car.
The driver survived.
I guess he hit the only solid thing on the salt flats.
It seems if he was going slower, he would have been worse off.
Trying to help my friend find exhaust and lighting upgrades for the Grumman,the type certification restrictions make me a little nuts.
I haven't had the opportunity to fly much, but I learned the mechanics of flight operation from a book when I was quite small, just as I learned the theory and physics of racing before I drove.
My friend laughed at that, but when he tested me, I still remembered how everything works.
It is a terrible thing whenever any plane goes down.
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Apollonaris Zeus
- Posts: 3716
- Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:17 am
Too bad the 2003 eplaya is still DOWN! We could all take a look at this topic in its original state!
And trammel is you are the same one that posted then, you can return to it and relive it as those here had posted then.
Can I ask you Htrammel why after 4 years you are returning? That amount of time will affect any witnesses recollection of the events.
If your seeking closure, there is none. Missing or hurting from the loss of other just doesn't stop. Only time helps the missing fade!
a few years ago, a goo friend of mine died and I still miss him.
But he ask for it by abusing drugs,. shooting things in arm that no one should shoot.
Was there a toxicology test done on your friend? That would be the first place to start in healing your self. Second speaking to a professional therapist.
Again, I'm sorry for offending you
Maybe when the 2003 eplaya is back up you can seek help there too.
Next Harriett will be showing as well! I'm sure these eplayans know her well from 2003
AIIZ
PS- may I repeat myself from the time we visited this topic: the two year statue of civil lawsuit is over! and death is a beautiful thing for its the beginning of the next life
And trammel is you are the same one that posted then, you can return to it and relive it as those here had posted then.
Can I ask you Htrammel why after 4 years you are returning? That amount of time will affect any witnesses recollection of the events.
If your seeking closure, there is none. Missing or hurting from the loss of other just doesn't stop. Only time helps the missing fade!
a few years ago, a goo friend of mine died and I still miss him.
But he ask for it by abusing drugs,. shooting things in arm that no one should shoot.
Was there a toxicology test done on your friend? That would be the first place to start in healing your self. Second speaking to a professional therapist.
Again, I'm sorry for offending you
Maybe when the 2003 eplaya is back up you can seek help there too.
Next Harriett will be showing as well! I'm sure these eplayans know her well from 2003
AIIZ
PS- may I repeat myself from the time we visited this topic: the two year statue of civil lawsuit is over! and death is a beautiful thing for its the beginning of the next life
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Teo del Fuego
- Posts: 1391
- Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:31 am
- Burning Since: 2005
Gyre:
sorry you had a bad experience with the legal system.
Medical malpractice has definitely gotten out of hand. But before you rush to blame "big companys" realize that, ultimately, its John Q. Public and his or her fellow jurors who render the verdicts in personal injury cases. For every McDonald's coffee-in-the-lap verdict reported in the news there are, easily, a half million cases where the tort system worked properly. You will not hear about those cases, however. Cases where an over-reaching party is given goose eggs by an astute jury. Or cases where a legitimate injury is met with a fair and reasonable award. But sensational awards make for more readership, and more sensational verdicts make for more lawsuits. And so it goes.
Our tort system has done much to make this country not only safe, but idiot-proof. Largely, this is a good thing that maybe has gone too far recently. Our tort system, however, is also fostering a litigation society that ultimately may prove to squelch innovation and make American companies less competitive in the global economy.
Everyone else, chill out. The statute of limitations for personal injuries in Nevada is two years. If there wasn't a lawsuit for the 2003 plane crash by now, there will not be one.
My two cents.
sorry you had a bad experience with the legal system.
Medical malpractice has definitely gotten out of hand. But before you rush to blame "big companys" realize that, ultimately, its John Q. Public and his or her fellow jurors who render the verdicts in personal injury cases. For every McDonald's coffee-in-the-lap verdict reported in the news there are, easily, a half million cases where the tort system worked properly. You will not hear about those cases, however. Cases where an over-reaching party is given goose eggs by an astute jury. Or cases where a legitimate injury is met with a fair and reasonable award. But sensational awards make for more readership, and more sensational verdicts make for more lawsuits. And so it goes.
Our tort system has done much to make this country not only safe, but idiot-proof. Largely, this is a good thing that maybe has gone too far recently. Our tort system, however, is also fostering a litigation society that ultimately may prove to squelch innovation and make American companies less competitive in the global economy.
Everyone else, chill out. The statute of limitations for personal injuries in Nevada is two years. If there wasn't a lawsuit for the 2003 plane crash by now, there will not be one.
My two cents.
I appreciate the good wishes.
I am actually taking the other point of view and I was citing the famous mcdonald's case as one that was a good decision.
Mcdonald's pr is misrepresenting what happened.
It is a joke that great jury decisions seem to be the ones cited for tort "reform".
Juries are frightening.
One lawyer who turned down my case said he had one that was horrific with long term care needed now.
He got enough to barely cover expenses.
One juror told him the guy 'looked okay now'.
Most disabilities are not visible.
There is a denial that permanent damage could happen to oneself behind part of this and the bullshit spread about lawsuits is another.
Some very stupid people on juries for sure.
Big companies did write these laws and like them just fine.
Just try to change the parts that count and they will crawl out of the woodwork.
Impact on products is an area that could be dealt with.
In aircraft I think the faa certification may be more of a problem.
It is hard to even bring a major medical case now unless it is huge because they beat down attorneys with money.
They set the bar on costs and raise the need for very high damages.
Punitive damages are clearly too low on average.
The attorney told me he would take no more medical cases unless it is a patient drooling in a chair.
NO ONE thought I would lose.
It was about the cost.
If I had died, as everyone expected, my case was an easy multi-million dollar case.
The same case with a survivor, I got zero.
Don't believe the propaganda.
And yes, there are frivolous suits.
I was sued for a million dollars.
I paid nothing.
My family was sued several times and finally did what big companies do to make it too costly to bother.
No one ever collected.
All of these were lawsuits by burglars or surviving relatives.
Proper tort reform could protect people that should be protected but that would also eliminate the current abuse, if it is done right.
It is also common for big companies to use frivolous lawsuits to abuse people exercising free speech.
This is very common now.
They have attempted to use frivolous lawsuit laws to punish environmentalists too.
There is a very real danger of legislation in this area being used to make things much worse.
My legal experience goes far beyond medical.
I have a federal lawsuit pending that I filed.
And other problems that can't seem to resolved honestly, so back to court.
I would be glad to see the end of it.
I don't want to bore anyone, but if the experiences would help anyone, feel free to ask.
My federal civil rights lawsuit is about property rights and is against the city here.
I am actually taking the other point of view and I was citing the famous mcdonald's case as one that was a good decision.
Mcdonald's pr is misrepresenting what happened.
It is a joke that great jury decisions seem to be the ones cited for tort "reform".
Juries are frightening.
One lawyer who turned down my case said he had one that was horrific with long term care needed now.
He got enough to barely cover expenses.
One juror told him the guy 'looked okay now'.
Most disabilities are not visible.
There is a denial that permanent damage could happen to oneself behind part of this and the bullshit spread about lawsuits is another.
Some very stupid people on juries for sure.
Big companies did write these laws and like them just fine.
Just try to change the parts that count and they will crawl out of the woodwork.
Impact on products is an area that could be dealt with.
In aircraft I think the faa certification may be more of a problem.
It is hard to even bring a major medical case now unless it is huge because they beat down attorneys with money.
They set the bar on costs and raise the need for very high damages.
Punitive damages are clearly too low on average.
The attorney told me he would take no more medical cases unless it is a patient drooling in a chair.
NO ONE thought I would lose.
It was about the cost.
If I had died, as everyone expected, my case was an easy multi-million dollar case.
The same case with a survivor, I got zero.
Don't believe the propaganda.
And yes, there are frivolous suits.
I was sued for a million dollars.
I paid nothing.
My family was sued several times and finally did what big companies do to make it too costly to bother.
No one ever collected.
All of these were lawsuits by burglars or surviving relatives.
Proper tort reform could protect people that should be protected but that would also eliminate the current abuse, if it is done right.
It is also common for big companies to use frivolous lawsuits to abuse people exercising free speech.
This is very common now.
They have attempted to use frivolous lawsuit laws to punish environmentalists too.
There is a very real danger of legislation in this area being used to make things much worse.
My legal experience goes far beyond medical.
I have a federal lawsuit pending that I filed.
And other problems that can't seem to resolved honestly, so back to court.
I would be glad to see the end of it.
I don't want to bore anyone, but if the experiences would help anyone, feel free to ask.
My federal civil rights lawsuit is about property rights and is against the city here.
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theCryptofishist
- Posts: 40312
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
- Burning Since: 2017
- Location: In Exile
McDonald's lost the case in the court of law--and deserved too. Unfortunately, the way it was reported in the media, and perhaps spun by a deep pockets company with little regard for its customers, gave everyone the wrong impression.Teo del Fuego wrote:For every McDonald's coffee-in-the-lap verdict reported in the news there are, easily, a half million cases where the tort system worked properly.
The Lady with a Lamprey
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
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Teo del Fuego
- Posts: 1391
- Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:31 am
- Burning Since: 2005
Its odd to see Burners applaud the McDonald's coffee cup case. That same mentality will shut down every Burning Man art car, Chairway to Heaven, Dance Dance Immolation, etc. and all sorts of great things at Burnng Man that could be dangerous if not approached with an ounce of caution and common sense. You open hot coffee while holding it between your thighs, ya gets burned! Individuality Rules, not sucking off the corporate teat.
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Teo del Fuego
- Posts: 1391
- Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:31 am
- Burning Since: 2005
nope, that's exactly what happened. The coffee served through the drive through was brewed extra hot on the theory that folks would start drinking it once they reached their destination minutes later. But, still, holding a styrofoam cup of hot liquid, whether it be 140 or 180 degrees , between your thighs while trying to remove the lid is not the type of behavior that should be rewarded.
(Im getting my info from that esteemed bastion of knowledge Wikipedia!)
Im not for Mcdonalds, Im just against whiners who look for someone else with deep pockets to pay for their stupid choices. Ambulance chasing lawyers and paternalistic bedwetting jurors are Burning Man (and America's) biggest challenge.
(Im getting my info from that esteemed bastion of knowledge Wikipedia!)
Im not for Mcdonalds, Im just against whiners who look for someone else with deep pockets to pay for their stupid choices. Ambulance chasing lawyers and paternalistic bedwetting jurors are Burning Man (and America's) biggest challenge.