Being green is appallingly expensive

phil · Post by **phil** » Thu May 03, 2007 11:38 am

http://thenomadyurt.com/buyone.html
The nomad yurt has a "modular" plywood floor (12' diameter), 7' tall, has bamboo struts, and a fabric cover (shown here before being covered):

Cost: $8300.
Shipping: Extra; 4' x 4' pallet to your curb.
Shipping time: 8 to 10 weeks.
Why so long: "Because it's green."
Warranty: As is, no service, no fitness for a particular purpose. (In short, no warranty.)

But it's GREEN!

http://www.jadoopower.com
sells fuel cells, and they have a generator that runs on hydrogent and puts out 120VAC and 12VDC, delivering 100W continuous. They claim 2200Wh or 180Ah, weight of less than 50 lbs, and dimensions of about 7w x 18d x 14h inches. There are two problems: the generator runs on hydrogen, so you have to have a supply of Jadoo's fuel cannisters; second, the generator costs $8,000. Fuel cannisters come in two sizes: 130Wh for $450 and 360Wh for $850.

But it's GREEN!

This is depressing. It costs more than us mere mortals can afford to go green.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu May 03, 2007 12:55 pm

Money is an energy cost too.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Thu May 03, 2007 12:59 pm

$8300 for a Nomad yurt?

That's ridiculous

For less than half the price you can go for this puppy http://www.summithut.com/catalog/remap/ ... fid/19641/

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Thu May 03, 2007 1:27 pm

I couldn't find any specs on the bamboo frame, but it's designed by a Harvard educated architect. That's worth at least $8300.

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Thu May 03, 2007 1:36 pm

....so what about that Yurt is particularly green? How much gas do you think it costs to ship a 4'x4' pallet? Or cut/process the wood? Or carry all that weight (more gas)? Cool, yes. Convenient, yes. Durable, yes. But green? What is the reasoning there?

I am not trying to dis you, just curious.

And do you really need 120v power? It is convenient, yes, because all our normal world stuff runs off it. Would LEDs or ELwire plus a battery work? Do we really need a 3000w sound system (thus requiring a genny) or would a 100w car stereo and 12v battery system suffice? Or a boombox w/ rechargeable batteries and a solar charger?

Duplicating existing tech with cutting edge stuff is always expensive. Reduce costs (and environmental impact) by eliminating stuff. Minimize, reduce, re-use. That's being green. Anything else is marketing fluff.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Thu May 03, 2007 1:42 pm

Bamboo is intrinsically Green.

Delivery is Green too if you have the FedEx jet push it out the back hatch over Gerlach -- the Black Rock Desert is right on the Great Circle route flight line from Greenland.

phil · Post by **phil** » Thu May 03, 2007 1:46 pm

I am not trying to dis you, just curious.

No problem - I'm quoting their specs, so check the link for their self-promotion on why they're green.

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Thu May 03, 2007 4:51 pm

...Yes, I can see why exchanging a normal house life-style for a yurt life-style would be "greener". But exchanging a tent, or car port, or ??? at BurningMan for a yurt, does not seem to me to be intrinsically green. Unless it means you can transport less weight overall to the Playa...or use less fuel.

The website mentions indiginous people making the yurts. How many indiginous people are there in america? Unless we are talking Native Americans, these things are shipped a fair distance. Shipping weight costs. Carrying weight in your car costs. How much does one of these weigh compared to another shelter type?

Bamboo is inherently "green" because it is so renewable. But that does not mean that anything made from bamboo is green, especially if it costs more in fuel to ship and use.

I think I will make a bamboo fuel spiller, after all, it is "green"....

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Thu May 03, 2007 8:43 pm

it's designed by a Harvard educated architect. That's worth at least $8300.

Bob, I hope he didn't design WTC #7.

You know what that'd mean.

Bin Noddin · Post by **Bin Noddin** » Fri May 04, 2007 4:21 am

Isotopia wrote:
it's designed by a Harvard educated architect. That's worth at least $8300.
Bob, I hope he didn't design WTC #7.

You know what that'd mean.

The long-awaited return of the "trough and beam" thread?

skeetsh00ter · Post by **skeetsh00ter** » Fri May 04, 2007 7:30 am

i will leave and never come back if someone starts a thread like that.

Bin Noddin · Post by **Bin Noddin** » Fri May 04, 2007 8:58 am

Don't blame you. That was one of the ghastliest perversions here. [looks around for wooden stakes and garlic]

phil · Post by **phil** » Fri May 04, 2007 10:39 am

Talk about going green - here's a jet powered PortaPotty:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/worl ... 257692.php

Includes a video, in addition to stills.

phil · Post by **phil** » Fri May 04, 2007 10:44 am

Be green by carrying your own shopping bag:

http://hugg.com/story/Plastic-Bag-Craze ... t-Version/

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri May 04, 2007 11:00 am

Trough and beam?

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Fri May 04, 2007 11:48 am

gyre wrote:Trough and beam?

Have you found the eplaya search engine yet?

Dr. Pyro · Post by **Dr. Pyro** » Fri May 04, 2007 1:46 pm

I'm doing my part by God to make Burning Man greener this year. I'm bringing a 33' RV instead of the 35' one, and I'm also cutting back by having just one slideout instead of the customary two. The sacrifices I make for the good of the planet.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri May 04, 2007 2:42 pm

Bob wrote:
gyre wrote:Trough and beam?
Have you found the eplaya search engine yet?

Oddly, I find things on eplaya easier with a worldwide webnet search than with the eplaya search engine.
But I was kind of hoping for a synopsis rather than a whole thread that most don't think is worth reading.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Fri May 04, 2007 3:19 pm

*cough*
What's that smell?

playa_clayton · Post by **playa_clayton** » Sat May 05, 2007 8:34 am

Howdy-

The price on that nomad yurt is ridiculous! It looks pretty weak as well. Nice looking design, though I guess.

I have been looking for a really portable yurt for The Playa, and ran across these folks:

http://www.GoYurt.com

They got inspired to build yurts from going to Burning Man, they use green materials and finishes, and it looks like the guy has obsessed for years to create a super portable and packable yurt.

He is has unfinished kits as well for the DIY minded. I think I am going to go with one of them to save some money.

_clay

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat May 05, 2007 12:18 pm

Looks okay for a bulky canvas tent, but I'm not seeing how the makers of the "GoYurt" integrate a method to stake the thing to the ground or add guylines. I wouldn't expect it to stay in one spot in a windstorm by magic.

playa_clayton · Post by **playa_clayton** » Sat May 05, 2007 4:18 pm

Bob wrote:Looks okay for a bulky canvas tent, but I'm not seeing how the makers of the "GoYurt" integrate a method to stake the thing to the ground or add guylines. I wouldn't expect it to stay in one spot in a windstorm by magic.

The stepes of Mongolia are pretty windy... The Mongolians use large rocks and animal stomachs filled with water tied to ropes to weight their yurts down during high wind. Apparently they feel it is taboo to pierce the ground with their yurts. Also, being round, yurts don't present much of a profile to the wind compared to other structures.

I don't plan on bringing my vintage collection of cow stomachs to The Burn :) I have emailed the people at GoYurt in the past asking about how well they handle the wind on the playa. Apparently there are a ton of attachment points all around the roof that you could use guylines for. They said that they have not been in a situation where they were necessary. Instead, they said they like to use an inverted tripod of ropes tied to the center ring that comes down to a central rope. This rope goes to a beefy stake in the center of the yurt, and you tension this rope to pull down on the roof ring...they say they have had them in some pretty heavy winds and they handle it really well. I am hoping to have one in time for this year's burn so I will let ya know!

phil · Post by **phil** » Sat May 05, 2007 5:15 pm

Also, being round, yurts don't present much of a profile to the wind compared to other structures.

While I can't speak to the stability of yurts, my dome tent blew over and flapped in my face during the dark of the night until one of the poles finally broke and the tent just laid on my face.

Now this was in 2000, and the BRC airport reported sustained winds of 40 MPH and gusts up to 70 MPH. When I say the tent blew over, I don't mean it pulled up stakes and fell over. I mean the wind collapsed the windward side of the tent onto my face and beat me with it, then when the wind paused, the tent popped back up till the wind resumed. And resume it did.

When the pole broke, the tent ceased to pop back up.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat May 05, 2007 6:34 pm

You'd think a teepee would have an even better "profile to the wind" than a cylinder or a hemisphere but a friend's unstaked teepee took a somersault in a big wind gust one time.

All the tents I've used were from yard sales or thrift shops. That's my contribution -- and I thought I was just being cheap, not "Green". If you're spending $8300 on a friggin' tent, you're handing someone a lot of gas money.

Being green is appallingly expensive

Being green is appallingly expensive

Another Yurt option

GoYurt and wind