Chronic Lung Condition After 5 years of BRC

kimspangrude · Post by **kimspangrude** » Sun May 20, 2007 10:36 am

Hello, all. Just wondering if anyone else has dealt with this or a similar problem.
My husband and I attended 5 years of Burning Man from 1999 to 2003. I now have a very chronic lung problem called eosinophilic pneumonia, which seems to wax and wane.
Has anyone else been diagnosed with lung problems of a chronic nature?
Peace, Equinox

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Sun May 20, 2007 11:18 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_Fever

Coccidioidomycosis (also known as Valley fever, California valley fever, and (incorrectly) coccidiomycosis) is a fungal disease caused by Coccidioides immitis or C. posadasii.[1] It is endemic in certain parts of Arizona, California, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Utah and northwestern Mexico.[2]

C. immitis resides in the soil in certain parts of the southwestern United States, northern Mexico, and a few other areas in the Western Hemisphere. Infection is caused by inhalation of airborne, fungal particles known as arthroconidia, which are a form of spore. The disease is not transmitted from person to person. C. immitis is a dimorphic saprophytic organism that grows as a mycelium in the soil and produces a sherule form in the host organism.

Symptomatic infection (40% of cases) usually presents as an influenza-like illness with fever, cough, headaches, rash, and myalgia (muscle pain).[3] Some patients fail to recover and develop chronic pulmonary infection or widespread disseminated infection (affecting meninges, soft tissues, joints, and bone). Severe pulmonary disease may develop in HIV-infected persons.[4]

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Sun May 20, 2007 11:24 am

There IS a vaccine:
http://www.valleyfever.com/

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Sun May 20, 2007 2:01 pm

I was having some problems breathing due to all the fires here in Florida the past couple weeks. The smoke was so bad it blocked out the stars at night. I try to keep a bandanna at the least when in a dusty environment. Since I work in machine shops I have to wear safety gear since alot of the metal dust can be really bad. Someone told me I will likely get Alzheimers from all the aluminum I have been exposed to over the years. Maybe we should all wear those doc masks like the Asian folks do, seems to work for them fine. I know a few folks from Cali, Nevada, Arizona etc develop that condition. My friend Jeff had to leave California and move to Baltimore MD because of it. Other relocated to other less dusty regions.

dana · Post by **dana** » Sun May 20, 2007 2:12 pm

How was your diagnosis made? Did you ever get bronchoscopy done? What does your plain x-ray (or CT, MRI) show?

I have a strong suspicion about "playa lung" which a lot of people get. The question comes down to: how much of that dust do we actually inhale over the course of a week and what is the actual particulate size? (Larger particulates tend to lodge in the upper airway and are carried right back out, by the cilia, etc.) The potential that comes to mind for me is silicosis or even some variant of pnuemoconiosis due to a different type of more alkaline particulate with ? organic matter from the dry lake bed? (Speculation and not meant to make you paranoid.)

Apparently during the dust bowl period, which is a fair approximation of a really good playa dust storm, a lot of people would succumb to the dust inhaled and die from a kind of acute respiratory condition.

Did you wear a mask for the worst times during those five years?
I would really be curious to know if any long term burners, who never wear masks, have gotten any x-rays after all the burns.

helitack · Post by **helitack** » Sun May 20, 2007 2:18 pm

Another reason to fear the desert...

...run away

kimspangrude · Post by **kimspangrude** » Sun May 20, 2007 2:46 pm

[color=brown]"How was your diagnosis made? Did you ever get bronchoscopy done? What does your plain x-ray (or CT, MRI) show?"[/color]

Yes, I had a cough and night sweats for about 4 months after BM. Then I developed severe pleurisy, night sweats, and a rash. I am a Family Nurse Practitioner, so I went in to the University of Utah Pulmonology Dept. and saw one of the docs there. Sprial CT showed effusions, no tumors or other. She did a thoracentecis which resulted in a pneumothorax. Stayed in the hospital for 4 days, had a bronchoscopy, and they concluded (after ruling out TB, coccidiomycosis, fungus, and everything the Pulmonologist, myself and everyone else could think of) that it was Acute Eosinophilic Pneumonia - my eosinophil count was off the scale. I was treated with prednisone for months (yuck) and since then they have been watching me for Chronic Eosinophilic Syndrome. I still have bouts of pleurisy, a chronic mildly productive cough, and crackles but normal CXR now.

[color=brown]"I have a strong suspicion about "playa lung" which a lot of people get. The question comes down to: how much of that dust do we actually inhale over the course of a week and what is the actual particulate size? (Larger particulates tend to lodge in the upper airway and are carried right back out, by the cilia, etc.) The potential that comes to mind for me is silicosis or even some variant of pnuemoconiosis due to a different type of more alkaline particulate with ? organic matter from the dry lake bed? (Speculation and not meant to make you paranoid.)"[/color]
I actually thought about anthrax, but that was ruled out quickly

Apparently during the dust bowl period, which is a fair approximation of a really good playa dust storm, a lot of people would succumb to the dust inhaled and die from a kind of acute respiratory condition.:shock:
I sat through some pretty awesome dust storms, and I was one of those Burners who get as close as they can to the Saturday night fire. The last time I was wearing a mask during the fire/dance, but it was so hot the plastic on the little mask melted :oops:
Did you wear a mask for the worst times during those five years?
I would really be curious to know if any long term burners, who never wear masks, have gotten any x-rays after all the burns.[color=darkred][/color]

helitack · Post by **helitack** » Sun May 20, 2007 3:26 pm

I have lived in the desert for 15 plus years, in the dust, the wind, in conditions that are identical to the Black Rock desert if not more extreme. Never have had an xray nor do I ever wear a mask. A bandanna on fires but it's been awhile.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Sun May 20, 2007 3:50 pm

I have spent a life time in lung damaging occupations and most 40 years of smoking... Now I have the cpod catch all.. I find the playa a good place for me and my shitty lungs..

Any time it don't rain for a week, I can not ride my bike for ten min. with out my lungs squeaking.. Yes you can hear me breathing.. Drives the cat nuts.. Some times he puts his paw over my mouth..

I sleep with a Ccapp, use an inhailer and have to work out a little each day.. The next thing is the TANK of air..

I threw the carpet out of the bed room.. NO more pillow, now it's a rice bag.. Only fleese covers, they do not shed.. Made light canvas curtains for the house, So they can be taken down ad run in the dryer.. Put window screening on the outside of the air cleaner to catch to hair and other large stuff.. In the winter I run a grow light a couple of days a week.. Kills the fuck out of mold spors..

In the morning I am going up to Harbor Freight and buy a charcoal filtered face mask $20.00.. It fits flat on the face and makes you look like Hanable Lector.. I will try it out riding my transporter for awhile and post if it helps..

There are a lot of things you can do for yourself.. Then go with you doctor and his pills..

Oh yeah, I'm 70 this year and it's the lungs that are going to take me out.. But not for another ten years..

dana · Post by **dana** » Sun May 20, 2007 4:33 pm

unjonharley wrote: Any time it don't rain for a week, I can not ride my bike for ten min. with out my lungs squeaking.. Yes you can hear me breathing.. Drives the cat nuts.. Some times he puts his paw over my mouth..

I sleep with a Ccapp, use an inhailer and have to work out a little each day.. The next thing is the TANK of air..

CPAP

After watching too many people going down slow with respiratory diseases, I've gotten overly paranoid about my lungs. Still the real culprit for you is certainly the smoking rather than the playa dust.

I'm mainly just curious. Epidemiologic studies on burners? A journal article complete with pictures?

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Sun May 20, 2007 5:15 pm

I'm lead to believe that those paper masks do more harm than good.. They block the large stuff and allow the micro in.. This gives the wearer a false safety..

Your own snot will filter out a lot.. Add a little Vicks on the playa and your snot rockets come out easyer.. Plus the vicks helps catch the micro shit

Post by **mdmf007** » Sun May 20, 2007 5:58 pm

I wouldn worry aboput it too much. if the playa were dissolving lungs, all the people in Gerlach, Winnemucca, and the surrounding area would all be dragging oxygen bottles around with them.

later

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun May 20, 2007 9:08 pm

Even cotton can cause lung problems.
I have no problem out there, but different people can react differently.
I do try to avoid the dust as much as I can.
Many people have said they have had a cough after going for years.
Still, we now have the worst allergen problem in recorded history everywhere.

Unjon, I can tell you how to make a really good house air filter without spending a fortune if you are interested.
I use a standard industrial type.
Even at full price they are reasonable.
A 95% will last forever as a room filter.
They make up to 99.9%.

They make finely woven sheets and pillowcases to stop allergens if that would help.

Zhust · Post by **Zhust** » Mon May 21, 2007 4:59 am

My impression is that some people are more susceptible than others to Playa dust. Many many people never have a problem, but some -- even healthy ones who don't otherwise have respiratory problems -- can get sick from it.

This is nothing new for anything new.

Most people have no problem with [insert any food, drink, drug, or environmental condition here] but there are a few who are unaware that they: [choose one or more]

are allergic to it.
have an undiagnosed existing condition that was exascerbated by it.
happen to be one of a small percentage of people who get violently ill from it.
die immediately when exposed to it.

dana · Post by **dana** » Mon May 21, 2007 12:12 pm

Not true about the masks. 2 band dust masks rated for dry wall will do the trick nicely. I think they're actually made out of synthetic fiber.

Particulate size is the key. Really really tiny stuff goes in and right back out. The bigger stuff does get caught in your upper airways and eventually brought out by the cilia (you know, those tiny hairs that you smokers don't have anymore.) It's the in between size that screws you. Settles into the lower airways where the different kinds of white cells try to engulf it and sequester them. That's where the chronic problems start - a long standing inflammation and gradual formation of fibrosis (scarring). Sound nice?

mdm - When you see the cloud of dust at midday, where is it located? On the playa mostly. I dissagree with helitack as well. I've spent lots of time in the desert and the playa is the only place where I've encountered that kind of dust. Part of why that shit is so hard to clean off of your gear is that it's so fine. Feel that stuff sometime. It feels kind of soapy, like talc. Talc inhalation definitely causes problems. ("Mother's lung"??)

I say, if you can see it, don't breathe it.
But of course it comes down to what Jaycer was talking about, and the overall inhalation load you get over time. So many people getting "playa lung" tells me something aint too good with that stuff.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon May 21, 2007 12:20 pm

Get real. You are going to be exposed for a week. If that level of exposure caused any kind of damage, we would need to have the loaders scooping up the bodies of the DPW who spend weeks out there and burners who have been going for over a decade.

People live their entire lives in Gerlach and Empire. I don't exactly see the place littered with skeletons.

dana · Post by **dana** » Mon May 21, 2007 12:29 pm

geekster wrote:Get real. You are going to be exposed for a week. If that level of exposure caused any kind of damage, we would need to have the loaders scooping up the bodies of the DPW who spend weeks out there and burners who have been going for over a decade.

People live their entire lives in Gerlach and Empire. I don't exactly see the place littered with skeletons.

Yeah and when you go to 3rd world countries you'll see people welding without goggles. Lots of people assume the attitude they can do whatever they want with their body and it won't have any consequences. Most of that kind of stuff doesn't show up for many years of periodic exposure. Some shows up a little sooner - like all the people that were exposed to the dust from the world trade center who are showing up with more problems now. Think about how that cloud looked - kinda like the playa during a good blow.

See my answer to mdm.

Believe whatever you want. It's not a risk I'm willing to take. I wear condoms and masks when appropriate.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon May 21, 2007 12:31 pm

"eah and when you go to 3rd world countries you'll see people welding without goggles"

Once.

Gerlach sits right at the edge of the playa. If the dust was all that hazardous, people wouldn't live there. Same with Empire.

dana · Post by **dana** » Mon May 21, 2007 12:41 pm

geekster wrote:"eah and when you go to 3rd world countries you'll see people welding without goggles"

Once.

Gerlach sits right at the edge of the playa. If the dust was all that hazardous, people wouldn't live there. Same with Empire.

OK, this aint rocket science. Watch the clouds the next time you're on (or better sitting nearby) the playa. Where do you see the major bulk of the dust? I took the bus into town once midday when it was intensely dusty on the playa and it was quite nice in Gerlach. Gerlach seems about 3-5 miles from the playa - plenty of space for the dust to settle before it all gets to town.
But then again, I suspect neither of us has any sense of the actual incidence of respiratory illness in Gerlach. It is known medical fact that particulates as part of the local atmosphere predisposes people to respiratory illness. You can't argue that. The only question is how great is the impact from playa dust.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon May 21, 2007 12:51 pm

If you are trying to tell me that just because YOU haven't seen the wind blow dust into Gerlach when you have been to the playa that it doesn't happen, that isn't going to work.

BLM folks work every day for years out on the playa too. As do people that drive across and live near it year round. It isn't gonna work. If you are looking for validation of your fear of playa dust, this probably isn't the place to find it. I consider it a vital nutrient.

dana · Post by **dana** » Mon May 21, 2007 1:00 pm

geekster wrote:If you are trying to tell me that just because YOU haven't seen the wind blow dust into Gerlach when you have been to the playa that it doesn't happen, that isn't going to work.

BLM folks work every day for years out on the playa too. As do people that drive across and live near it year round. It isn't gonna work. If you are looking for validation of your fear of playa dust, this probably isn't the place to find it. I consider it a vital nutrient.

How did I know that you were going to give the nitpicky response?

Dust load. Hmm? more on the playa, or does it actually originate in Gerlach?

Or maybe you're so incredibly sure of your response that you'd like to help me out with a little experiment so that I can put this irrational fear to rest once and for all and stop annoying all the good burners with my paranoid delusions? We'll just get together each day and I'll give you a precise amount of dust that you'll huff into your lungs. Then we'll follow you over a ten year period and record the results.

What do you think? Up for it?

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon May 21, 2007 1:16 pm

Your earlier posting of:

"Apparently during the dust bowl period, which is a fair approximation of a really good playa dust storm, a lot of people would succumb to the dust inhaled and die from a kind of acute respiratory condition. "

Was, in my opinion, idiotic. Take into consideration the dust storm of 2002. I don't know of anyone who "succumbed".

I believe you are being alarmist, unreasonable, exaggerating, but entertaining!

Your logic is flawed. Yes particulates, when inhaled in great quantity over a long period of time can be hazardous. Does that mean ALL particulates in ALL quantities at ANY duration of exposure are harmful? No, that's just plain silly. Water is harmful if consumed in too great a quantity. Does that mean one should avoid all exposure to water?

Humans have been living in dusty desert conditions for thousands of years. During the dust bowl people experienced a level of dust quite unlike the playa and over a duration of YEARS of exposure to it, yeah, some got sick. But geeez, you are making it sound like you are gonna die from getting caught in a playa dust storm. Again, people in Gerlach and Empire breathe more playa dust in a year than you are going to breathe in a lifetime.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Mon May 21, 2007 1:45 pm

test-tic-al

dana · Post by **dana** » Mon May 21, 2007 1:52 pm

geekster wrote:Your earlier posting of:

"Apparently during the dust bowl period, which is a fair approximation of a really good playa dust storm, a lot of people would succumb to the dust inhaled and die from a kind of acute respiratory condition. "

Was, in my opinion, idiotic. Take into consideration the dust storm of 2002. I don't know of anyone who "succumbed".

I believe you are being alarmist, unreasonable, exaggerating, but entertaining!

Your logic is flawed. Yes particulates, when inhaled in great quantity over a long period of time can be hazardous. Does that mean ALL particulates in ALL quantities at ANY duration of exposure are harmful? No, that's just plain silly. Water is harmful if consumed in too great a quantity. Does that mean one should avoid all exposure to water?

Humans have been living in dusty desert conditions for thousands of years. During the dust bowl people experienced a level of dust quite unlike the playa and over a duration of YEARS of exposure to it, yeah, some got sick. But geeez, you are making it sound like you are gonna die from getting caught in a playa dust storm. Again, people in Gerlach and Empire breathe more playa dust in a year than you are going to breathe in a lifetime.

flawed logic huh? Did I say anywhere that I thought someone would die from exposure to a single playa storm?
OK, let's continue down the "logic path". What thing is significantly different from the time of the dust bowl and now? Hmm? ready access to supplemental oxygen and antibiotics, nebulized treatments of many different varieties, ability to intubate someone and respirators, etc. etc. ie these days very few people are going to die from acute dust exposure, but they sure might show the effects of that exposure in 10 - 20 years.

The offer is still up for my little experiment if you feel so strongly......

Nice picture by the way!!

dana · Post by **dana** » Mon May 21, 2007 1:54 pm

unjonharley wrote:test-tic-al

Getting there!

helitack · Post by **helitack** » Mon May 21, 2007 2:34 pm

I dont think I made a statement you can disagree with. I live in the desert, I dont wear masks for dust. I do wear a bandanna when I am on a fire. I never get so much as a cough. YMMV

Post by **mdmf007** » Mon May 21, 2007 2:36 pm

[quote="Geekster"]
Yeah and when you go to 3rd world countries you'll see people welding without goggles. quote]

Who wants to grow old in a third world country anyways. Seriously its desert dust, its everywhere in the basin - just more of it on the Playa.

Wear a mask - dont wear a mask its your choice

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Mon May 21, 2007 2:39 pm

geekster wrote:People live their entire lives in Gerlach and Empire. I don't exactly see the place littered with skeletons.

But vee are VERKING on that, darlink!!! Vee are verking on that...

Killbuck · Post by **Killbuck** » Mon May 21, 2007 2:46 pm

I was just through there yesterday.... I waved at the webcam!!!!

BTW... where do you think the lasagna comes from?

The skeletons are another matter..... dang clutter!!!!

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Mon May 21, 2007 3:03 pm

Kernul Killbuck wrote:I was just through there yesterday.... I waved at the webcam!!!!

BTW... where do you think the lasagna comes from?

The skeletons are another matter..... dang clutter!!!!

Is new technology have been working on for almost 9 years now - are shipped to Sheetrock plant in Empire. Dried, ground and incorporated into Gypsum powder, reduces mining cost and keeps body count down. You wondered where that road to LEFT went? heh heh heh...

Another proud service to the people of BRC provided by Doom, Inc. (An Apokiliptik/Terminal City Company)