Battery Consumption?

Rocket75377 · Post by **Rocket75377** » Sun May 06, 2007 4:47 pm

I know this has been touched on before, but here it goes again. I'm attaching "some" (read: many) lights, cold cathode tubes, LEDs, speakers, and maybe a stereo system, CB radio and some EL wire on my bike. Without knowing the wattage, amperage or ohms, and knowing only that I have 12 volts to work with, I'm trying to decide what the best power source would be. Yes, I'm aware that it will eat batteries like Cookie Monster eats Double-Stuff Oreos. The question is how fast will it eat batteries?

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Sun May 06, 2007 6:08 pm

wild assed guess

loud 100 watt stereo 10 amps

cb radio 1-2 amps

lights and shit 2 - 5 amps

full sized car battery approx 50 amp hours

dead flat in 3 hours or less

Post by **mdmf007** » Sun May 06, 2007 7:48 pm

Rocket - are you running an inverter to convert to AC then run some of this stuff? If so theres at least a third of your juice lost in heat and conversion.

simplest way to figure it out is to charge the battery and plug in the load - then you will know exactly what you are looking at.

You could do this in your garagr real easy.

Rocket75377 · Post by **Rocket75377** » Sun May 06, 2007 8:04 pm

The stereo wouldn't be huge by any means. Probably a junkyard car stereo, at the most. Everything I have to power is 12 volt DC or less, most of it made for automotive use. Come to think of it, all of it was made for automotive use. Rechargeable 12V batteries are kind of heavy, or so it would seem. There's a battery store across town that I was going to go peruse tomorrow. I'm looking for light weight and slow drain. Right now I have two 6V lantern batteries wired together so I can play with things.

phil · Post by **phil** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:09 pm

Rocket, you can figure it out exactly, but you'll need some information which should be available.

The battery or batteries have a rated life. I have 12V sealed lead acid batteries with a rated life of 7 amp-hours, for example. That means if I have a string of LEDs that draw an amp, they'll run for 7 hours (in the perfect world). It's simple math. If they draw two amps, it's 3.5 hours. You can find out what each device draws, generally on the device itself, but if not, the online at the manufacturer's Web site.

But you can't get a good answer on how fast a battery will be drained unless you know the rated capacity of the battery and the draw of the devices. It's just not possible even to guess without those two bits of the equation.

> what the best power source would be.

Among what options? AAs? Sealed lead-acids? Again, without knowing the rated capacity of the battery, no one can guess how long the battery will last given a specific drain - devices that draw what amps?

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Mon May 07, 2007 5:42 am

You'll know that your batteries have Consumption if they're coughing all the time.

With a mix of LED, cold-cathode, EL and other goodies I like to segregate things into separately-powered modules. That way, if your power-sucking boombox eats all of its batteries you won't have collateral loss of lighting. More work, more wiring and more to mess with...but better results overall.

Rocket75377 · Post by **Rocket75377** » Mon May 07, 2007 6:32 am

robotland wrote:You'll know that your batteries have Consumption if they're coughing all the time.

*woowoowoo* Bad joke siren. Clear the area immediately.

I've thought about seperate power sources for seperate devices, and it does seem feasible. about half of my gizmos are 12V, the rest are less. It seems almost necessary to have a power source for each of the voltages, sans resistors. I put together these little battery packs made out of PVC and metal hardware. 1" schedule 40 is the perfect size to hold 'C' batteries, and a bolt through the endcap on both ends make wonderful electrodes. 'C' batteries are cheap, but I don't want to have to throw away a million dead batteries, or have to spend a small fortune on rechargeables.

phil wrote:But you can't get a good answer on how fast a battery will be drained unless you know the rated capacity of the battery and the draw of the devices. It's just not possible even to guess without those two bits of the equation.

Yeah, that's kind of what I figured. How are cold cathode tubes for draining batteries? I've heard they're pretty efficient, but compared to what? Some of these I've had for eight or nine years, and am having trouble tracking down the manufacturer.

I seem to remember an "amperage" setting on a multimeter I borrowed from my dad some time ago. Before I go spend the money, would this tell me what I needed to know?

This is all relatively new ground for me, but I'm learning quickly. Thanks for the advice.

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:05 am

Few things Rocket:

1) Do NOT use normal car battieries for this stuff if you can avoid it. They're built for quick bursts of power (starting a car), not long drains. Use Deep Cycle batteries (not Marine batteries).

2) The CC tubes are pretty damn good on the power drain. I ran a couple 12" in my hat all week on 8 AA batteries. (1.5 x 8 = 12volts)
They draw very little amps. About 0.5 - 0.7 amps (500 -700 milliamps) depending on the length. I've seen CCFL sets ( 1 inverter, two 12" tubes) pulling 0.7amps.

Badger

EB · Post by EB » Mon May 07, 2007 10:44 am

capjbadger wrote: Use Deep Cycle batteries (not Marine batteries).

Marine batteries are deep-cycle batteries. Right?

phil · Post by **phil** » Mon May 07, 2007 11:07 am

I seem to remember an "amperage" setting on a multimeter I borrowed from my dad some time ago. Before I go spend the money, would this tell me what I needed to know?

If you have rechargeable batteries, you can use a voltmeter to determine draw. You need to know the capacity of the batteries, and that's usually on the case of the battery: 2200mAh, for example, which is 2.2 amp-hours. Put the CCT and a voltmeter on the battery together, turn the CCT on and wait for it to dim. Read the voltage on the meter and stop draining it (them) when the voltage gets down to 10.5V.

If the batteries were 2.2 Amp hours, and it took 4 hours to drain them, the CCT draws about a half amp. See
http://www.cieux.com/bm/batteryWreck.html
for more information.

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Mon May 07, 2007 1:11 pm

EB wrote:
capjbadger wrote: Use Deep Cycle batteries (not Marine batteries).
Marine batteries are deep-cycle batteries. Right?

No. If a battery lists "Cold cranking amps" it's not a true deep cycle. Most Marine batteries are something of a hybrid between Car starting batteries and Deep Cycle batteries.

If it's all you have, you can use them, but it's far from ideal. You'll shorten the lifespan of them badly by mis-using them like this.

Look for Golfcart or wheelchair batteries. They are deep cycle.

Badger

EB · Post by EB » Mon May 07, 2007 2:46 pm

capjbadger wrote:
EB wrote:
capjbadger wrote: Use Deep Cycle batteries (not Marine batteries).
Marine batteries are deep-cycle batteries. Right?
Look for Golfcart or wheelchair batteries. They are deep cycle.

Badger

Gotcha. Yes, I know about misusing Marine batteries. I fried two of them this winter after improper watering...

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon May 07, 2007 8:43 pm

There are marine deep cycle batteries.
The only difference on the optima is the hookup configuration and color.

An important area is voltage flexibility, unless you are using nicads or lithium with a voltage shelf.
Some things run down to a very low voltage.
I had a portable radio that continued to work for years on one set of c cells.

If you have leds or anything on a specific voltage, you can set up a separate supply.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Tue May 08, 2007 2:59 am

A tippo regarding battery holders- Don't toss those old flashlights! Solder leads to the outputs and use as a C or D cell power supply for those 3V blinkies...complete with switch. Good for bike use- Zipstrip the unit to the frame. Some minor playa-proofing might be advisable, consisting of GOOP around the spot where the wires come out.
Also save the battery compartments from those ultracheap sets of battery-powered Xmuz lights- Often they sell NEW for less than the cost of just the holder at Rodeo Snack.

Marzz · Post by **Marzz** » Sat May 26, 2007 10:12 am

Hello !
I am a virgin BM, I thought I read somewhere that I could recharge camera batteries etc there. Now I can't find this info anywhere. I have all the adapters, I just need a regular 115 Volt plugin. Does this exist for the general public use ? I am considering a solar battery charger as well but,
I am also trying to save SOME money, or at least spend less of it if this is readily available. I know I can't rely on fellow Burners for my needs.

Marzz

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Sat May 26, 2007 10:28 am

As far as I know there is nothing like that for general use. The event staff provides a few things. Port-o-potties cleaned 2x per day, the man in the middle, streets and signs, ice, coffee, tea for purchase, and emergency resources. Most of the event is put on by us. So there might be someone offering that service, but will they attend this year? Will they make you do a dance while you're using their generator? I don't know, so do not rely on it. That being said, there are lots of generators out there and if you make some friends they'll likely allow you to charge up on their genny, especially if you pass a few drinks around. Just about anything you need will be there somewhere, and if you can find it and ask the right way you might get to enjoy it as well. So if you just must have something, bring it. If you'd like to have something but don't have to have it, you can just bring your gifts to the community and you just might get what you need gifted to you.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sat May 26, 2007 5:58 pm

I recommend external chargers for cameras.
I have one for the cell as well.
I have two chargers for one camera.
Seven batteries for one and three for the other.
CTA has generic chargers that are 12 volt compatible.
Norelco razors will charge off 12 volts too.
I know someone who uses seven car chargers for the camera at the same time.

Post by **mdmf007** » Sun May 27, 2007 10:05 pm

My exilim camera uses a battery about the size of a book of matches. I bought and charged 2 extras and brought with me.

BM 2006 - 1400+ photos, and 4 hours of digital video.

extra batteries is an easy way to not have to worry.

later

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun May 27, 2007 10:27 pm

How many cards do you bring with you?

Post by **mdmf007** » Mon May 28, 2007 8:51 am

I got a good deal on 4GB SD cards so I take 6 of em. Video fills three of them. pics another 2. Have yet to use the sixth. ill get a pic of my camera / video set up online. I use the same set up allover the world. BM is what kills the camera every year though.

Package looks like this for BM or whatever incident / job site I am on:

1. one Casio Exilim (in whatever model is newest for this year) If it gets dusted out at BM, I exchange it for a new one at CompUSA. They are great about it and thats why I paid 50 bucks for the warranty.

2. 3 Batteries

3 6 4GB SD cards

4. Camera case about the size of a pack of cigs.

Thats it. If I am on a long deployment ill throw the battery charger in my bag so I can recharge. and since I will have my laptop at work anyways I dump the cards to it, 6 SD cards take up as much room as about 4 cubes of sugar. God - i love technology.

I use the same camera to shoot video and it is actually really good video. Biggest problem is in its size. Being so small it is easy to get jerky video - so you have to make a conscious effort to steady it.

BM dust is what kills the cameras though.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon May 28, 2007 8:56 am

Have you tried using a camera dust bag?

24 gb!
I am such a piker with the memory.

Marzz · Post by **Marzz** » Mon May 28, 2007 9:13 am

thanks,
I already have a few extra batteries, so, I guess I will buy a few more![/list][/code]

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Mon May 28, 2007 9:15 am

I'm going back to 35mm film.. Heartland of America has a undrwater camera, drop in load, auto wind and auto flash.. My kid has a disc loader for the pics I realy want to keep..

Post by **mdmf007** » Mon May 28, 2007 6:21 pm

24GB!!!. I know seems like a lot, but video eats the memory. and I got them for 10.00 each

later

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon May 28, 2007 8:07 pm

That's the best deal I ever heard of for memory.
Where did you find that?

I still use a lot of film.
I finally got a digital that will shoot in the dark.
I can't get the hang of low light with film.

I've been paying $10/gb in sd and $20/gb for xd in name brands.

Battery Consumption?

Battery Consumption?

CHARGING BATTERIES ON THE PLAYA