TARPS? WHITE OR SILVER?

[Marzz]

I have been researching some tarps for my camp area. I heard somewhere about a white tarp with holes in it, that helps to prevent it from flying away in the wind. Has anyone heard of this? and if so, do you know what they are called? or a website that I might be able to locate one?

Also, I have found several silver uv tarps. Any thoughts on these?
this is my first year, and I am really gathering a LOT of info to sift through.

thanks in advance!!!

[Tiahaar]

You could do Aluminet silver tarps they have lots of holes (being woven) or other greenhouse shadecloth. This is one source: http://www.gothicarchgreenhouses.com/shade_aluminet.htm

[robotland]

The white tarps with the holes are camo netting, from Sweden or Finland or someplace like that...popular with the Apokiliptikans. Check surplus stores.

[AntiM]

Two potential sources:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/

http://www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com/

The snow camo only works if it doesn't rub against edges and points, it will tear and fray in the wind. Still useful stuff. We also use doubled-up camo netting for our deeper "social" shade.

[gyre]

If you want shade, you need something that blocks light totally.
I'm still looking for solid aluminet.
Maybe someone outside the usa can help?

Silvicool seems the closest.
White is more reflective than a dull gray tarp, but blocking light is the important thing.
I have some billboard plastic that is white and blocks light, but it is heavy and probably has a layer in the middle of black.
Not all billboard material is as thick.
Some gray tarps have a metallic or black layer to block heat and light.
If you can see any light, it's not working.

I think aluminet up to 90% mesh is most useful when it might face rain and can be used flat without a problem.
I'm thinking of using it stretched flat over spacers on a trailer in 80% mesh as shade that can stay flat in rain and wind.
Dual layers of shade material spaced out and venting will help form a radiant barrier too.
Some tent frames lend themselves to this.
Venting is important between layers.

Aluminet DS is one of the solid versions.

Shelter systems has shade structures that seem pretty good.
I'm thinking about using their combo unit with walls.
They have very cheap light blocking tarps, as well as high end and custom tents.
The sign and banner fittings might really be useful for theme camps afflicted with the 'Who the hell are you guys?' syndrome.
They actually have real catalogs on paper for those of us who need them.

http://shelsys.com/

Silvicool

http://www.bushpro.ca/index.php?page_id=1004

http://www.gear-up.com/cart_showproduct.php?pid=1222

I found 9 by 12 foot in heavy duty for $95.
I don't know if that was canadian dollars.
It uses aluminized mylar to reflect heat.

[blyslv]

the silver tarps topped with plain white camo netting offer pretty deep shade and it looks kind of purty too, like a hillbilly's mouth.

[phil]

Louise and I have used either white or silver tarps for years without problems. Whichever color, our roof is totally opaque - no light at all, no UV, no IR, cool to the touch on the inside.

Here's a photo of last year's shade during our fashion show:

from our gallery at
http://civex.smugmug.com/gallery/1867757

[trilobyte]

Silver on silver (on both top and bottom) tarps are going to be the most efficient at reflecting away the sun's energy (something like 70%). However, the tarp will get HOT - make sure you've got a clearance of 1 to 1 1/2 feet between the top of the tallest tent and the roof of your structure to allow for ventilation, otherwise the heat radiating downward from the tarp will warm up your tent(s).

Second most effective is white tarps. The advantage there is that white tarps keep the structure beneath from feeling like a dark cave. I use white tarps on the sides, with silver/silver on the roof - it takes a good 30 degrees off the heat of the day.

Aluminet shade cloth is another option. While it's not as effective as the above, it has the advantage of being a woven metal cloth that breathes. So you don't have to worry about having as strong/solid a structure to battle with the wind. Aluminet is available in a variety of densities, blocking/diffusing up to 70% of the sun's rays.

Hope that info helps!

~Trilo~

[AntiM]

If you want shade, you need something that blocks light totally.

Heh, as usual, opinions differ. We've had solid shade in the past, and our structure became an oven. I like the deep dapple of the netting because it breathes, plus the wind just whips through it. A single layer of camo netting is NOT enough, it has to be doubled. The shade over our tents is just the white carport roof tarps, good enough to keep them cool for morning sleeping. But then, I haven't had the aluminet experience, feh, who knows? I may be missing out on the equivalent of sliced bread.

All depends on the size and shape of your shade structure. We're doing 20x30 with two facing clamshell carports and the center netting stretch. The options are near endless.

[phil]

As _always_, opinions differ. :->

I've had white opaque tarps that were on 6.5-foot poles, so they droop in the center very close to my head, and they've never been hot on the underside. Someone at Dark Skies this past month was telling me that my tarp was going to be too hot until he touched it and found it cool. shrug - opinions vary, but I've never had a white or silver opaque tarp radiate heat under it.

We have side flaps on two sides. One end of our shade faces south, and the end flap there stays down most of the day. The other flap is on a side. With the orientation of our shade (set up by compass every year), one side of the shade is easterly and the opposite is (gasp!) westerly. We put the side flap on the easterly side in the moring, so we have a shade flap on the east and south as the sun comes around in the AM. Then when the sun passes its zenith, we move the side flap from the easterly to the westerly side, leaving the southern end flap in place.

With only two side flaps, the shade area remains open to all breezes and ventilates so that we're never warmer than ambient temperature in our shade.

I have no argument with people who's shade was too hot or too cold, too radiant or whatever. What works for us is just what works for us.

We've had white tarps with flat roofs which works fine in the sun but collects rain water when it rains, so we went with a peaked roof and it hasn't rained since. :-> The peaked, as shown, is silver. Opaque is opaque, though, and I see no difference in heat/temperature between the two.

[gyre]

Silvicool and aluminet DS is silver reflective.
Most so-called silver tarps like the ones from shelter systems are actually gray.
A good white tests better for reflectivity than dull silver aluminum reflectors.
Gold mirror is the most effective, especially for heat.
Really works for sensitive equipment.
Aluminet mesh is made up to 90% at least and solid.
All cheap gray tarps are not identical.
Some block little light.

http://www.tenax.net/agriculture/products/aluminet.htm

Silvicool is white on the inside.
White is the least effective color at releasing infrared.
Black is the most effective.

[robotland]

Gold mirror is the most effective, especially for heat.
Really works for sensitive equipment.
.

Just look at Apollo gear for proof.

....I'm trying to figure out how to reduce the "rustle factor" on space blankets, now that I've found them for a buck apiece at Target- Perhaps stretching them tight and then taping 'em onto the spherical structures of the PBR MOD. I have a crackpot vision of contact-cementing them onto tarp scraps or cloth.....Otherwise, I'll just line the windows of the car with them for the week.

[gyre]

I don't think this stuff will hold up as a tarp, but for protected areas should be good.
I think unjon reports good luck keeping warm with it too.
I think he used it to sleep on, so it's tougher than I thought.
I've been thinking of using some in the attic.
http://www.reflectixinc.com/


The Mclaren has a gold plated engine bay for heat control.
Nice look.

[AntiM]

Gold mirror is the most effective, especially for heat.
Really works for sensitive equipment.
.

Just look at Apollo gear for proof.

....I'm trying to figure out how to reduce the "rustle factor" on space blankets, now that I've found them for a buck apiece at Target- Perhaps stretching them tight and then taping 'em onto the spherical structures of the PBR MOD. I have a crackpot vision of contact-cementing them onto tarp scraps or cloth.....Otherwise, I'll just line the windows of the car with them for the week.

One year, it was decided that space blankets taped to the roof of the carport was a good idea. The duct tape only held partially, the winds shredded the blankets, noisy, noisy, and because they were up on the carport, hard to reach. It sucked. And they were so blindingly shiny in the sun we had neighbors relocate. Even with better tape, I have my reservations about the efficacy of space blankets as shelter. YMMV.

[gyre]

The brightness is why it works.
There is a dome of solid aluminet and it shows up in sunlight even with a coating of dust.
With single surface gold mirror, you can put your hand right below it and not feel heat.
Costly. Only for special purpose.
Reflectix and space blankets should work well as a second layer inside a van or camper, possibly a sturdy tent.
Silvicool looks like a good way to go as a shade material.
The shiny part may be useful for lighting effects.
I saw a white tent used for tv projection this year.
You could see it on both sides.

For an exposed space blanket, I think the right adhesive and stitching would be needed.

[trilobyte]

Gyre, have you used Silvicool on the playa? I'm curious as to how well it holds up during a dust storm - both those sites you'd linked to mentioned was good for all but the most severe applications... the playa strikes me as a pretty severe application. I'm working on designing shade for the roof of an art car I'm building, if that stuff were ruggedized & playa-worthy I'd love to use it.

Agreed that not all silver tarps are created equal (or even silver for that matter). But then there's not a lot of difference between gray and silver on most color charts, so it's easy for the lines to get blurred.

~Trilo~

[gyre]

The silvicool looks like aluminet to me.
Someone on eplaya told me about it.
There are two or three weights.
The prices seem fair but not cheap.
Worth it if it reflects well.
I haven't seen it myself yet.

[Dork]

....I'm trying to figure out how to reduce the "rustle factor" on space blankets, now that I've found them for a buck apiece at Target- Perhaps stretching them tight and then taping 'em onto the spherical structures of the PBR MOD. I have a crackpot vision of contact-cementing them onto tarp scraps or cloth.....Otherwise, I'll just line the windows of the car with them for the week.

They hold quite well onto cardboard with a little spray glue. Haven't tried it with tarps or cloth, but you might give it a try and see what happens.

[capjbadger]

Beat me to it Dork. Spray glue and a bit of sewing should hold it to a tarp pretty well. Sandwich the edges between the tarp and some cloth when you sew it.

I've made my own "reflectix" by spraypainting bubblewrap. Works pretty well, except the paint would flake off. Perhaps some sliver latex paint would do the trick?

Badger

[skeetsh00ter]

was looking around for silver tarps and found what seems like a pretty good deal.

http://www.tarpsonline.com/silver.asp?g ... gQodIks3qQ

these look fine don't they? this will be my first year, so if i'm going to bake myself alive with these please tell me.

[diane o'thirst]

If you want shade, you need something that blocks light totally.
I'm still looking for solid aluminet.

You won't find it.
The best you can do is 90% shade.
The upside to that is you'll have fairly deep shade and it won't catch the wind. Plus it'll have a lighter poundage in your gear. Last year we covered three Costco canopies down to the ground with a six-foot standoff and the whole swath of Aluminet weighed maybe...eight pounds? Imagine the same area of tarps in your dunnage. You'd be looking at ten times the weight.

On topic...
I'd definitely go for Aluminet but if that's not in your budget I'd opt for the silver tarps over white, if you want deep shade. OCF Embassy has 'em on their shade structure and it's always 20º cooler in there.

[Nick Collide]

Last year we covered three Costco canopies down to the ground with a six-foot standoff and the whole swath of Aluminet weighed maybe...eight pounds? Imagine the same area of tarps in your dunnage. You'd be looking at ten times the weight.

So you covered the carports with Aluminet to shade the carport - which was shading you? Do you need to space the Aluminet away from the surface of the carport roof to make it more effective?

[diane o'thirst]

It's a little hard to explain...I'll try to describe...

First we put down a big blue tarp for the floor. Then we put up two carports with a space in the middle as wide as another carport. Then we staked the corners of the Aluminet...Robert got 50 square feet of the stuff...and the carports held it up off the ground. The Aluminet bridged between the two carports and down the sides with a duck-space four feet off the ground to get under the edge. So there was a 10x20 section between the two carports where the roof was nothing but Aluminet, and not white tarp. Does that make sense?

And I swear to Ghod, it was definitely cooler under the Aluminet than outside, at least a 10º difference.

[gyre]

As you can see from the Tenax chart, they make solid aluminet and it was once imported.
The DS and RDS is solid.
There is solid aluminet on the playa.
Perhaps we could order some in if silvicool isn't good enough.

[robotland]

Beat me to it Dork. Spray glue and a bit of sewing should hold it to a tarp pretty well. Sandwich the edges between the tarp and some cloth when you sew it.

I've made my own "reflectix" by spraypainting bubblewrap. Works pretty well, except the paint would flake off. Perhaps some sliver latex paint would do the trick?

Badger

Hmmm....I might try making triangular cardboard panels and covering them with space blanket mylar, instead of just stretching the blankets over the dome frame. Certainly would be beefier. I'd also considered cutting triangles of Reflectix and silvertaping them together. The habitat spheres of the PBR MOD are only six feet across, so the triangles are fairly small....and I'm only totally enclosing the middle one. (The top sphere is open for ventilation and a view, and the bottom dome can just be tarped.)
That Krylon "Fusion" paint should hold on bubble wrap.

[gyre]

I would test.
The mylar would peel, I would expect.
Tubelite carries special adhesives compatible with plastics.

[diane o'thirst]

Capjbadger: Did you use Krylon Fusions spray paint? It comes in silver and doesn't flake.

[Nick Collide]

First we put down a big blue tarp for the floor. Then we put up two carports with a space in the middle as wide as another carport. Then we staked the corners of the Aluminet...Robert got 50 square feet of the stuff...and the carports held it up off the ground. The Aluminet bridged between the two carports and down the sides with a duck-space four feet off the ground to get under the edge. So there was a 10x20 section between the two carports where the roof was nothing but Aluminet, and not white tarp. Does that make sense?

Perfect sense, thanks. When you put down the large floor tarp (20X30?) did you just run your stakes for the carports through it, or was everything guyed from outside the structures?

We were going to put up 3 carports side by side but I like your idea better because, if it rains, four of the six roof angles would be dumping water directly into the shade area.

[Bob]

Any kind of spray paint is likely to flake off of materials like tarp fabric that flex or get pounded as they do in the desert & packed higgledy piggledy in vehicles on the way to & from the desert. Same might happen to mylar if the glue isn't compatible with both surfaces and designed to hold up in the heat & exposed to alkali.

If you feel hot, maybe you don't have enough ventilation, or your roof & walls aren't opaque enough to keep the ground cool underneath (to avoid radiant heat).

[diane o'thirst]

When you put down the large floor tarp (20X30?) did you just run your stakes for the carports through it, or was everything guyed from outside the structures?

The tarp was about that size, maybe 20x40, but the Aluminet was wider...it didn't fit precisely, there was overlap.
I've described how we guyed the carports down elsewhere but to save myself time and avoid a scouring through the E-Playa for the exact post, I'll recap:

We tied the ends of rope loops to the soffit pipes of the carports, knotting around the tops of the legs, and pulled them straight down to rebar kandykanes driven into the Playa. If you secure the legs down, you'll find the wind picks up the rooves and take them off for a Mary Poppins audition, so we guyed the soffits. No problems with people tripping, even in the dark, and no problems with anyone entering the structure because the guys would actually form a door.