Cargo Shipping Containers

AaronJae · Post by **AaronJae** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:47 pm

So I did try and search to find out if there were other threads about this topic, but couldn't find one very easily and figured someone would be able to answer this question quickly.

I hear that there is an arrangment with the "Pacific Railroad??" to ship out cargo containers to the desert and then have trucks drop them off in camp. Is this so? And who do I talk to about making this a reality?? This would definitely be an easy way to help "green" our camp up a bit.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:30 pm

Nope. Not at all.

There was some discussion a while back but it was more pipe dream than reality. Unfortunately there's currently no real terminal or drop off point anywhere near the event where this could take place.

You might check several of the regional groups here in eplaya - New York comes to mind - that may have a thread or two about container sharing.

scotto · Post by **scotto** » Tue May 01, 2007 6:08 am

[quote="AaronJae"]So I did try and search to find out if there were other threads about this topic, but couldn't find one very easily and figured someone would be able to answer this question quickly.[/quote

http://azburners.org/container.htm

Scotto
-Burning Man Lifer

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Tue May 01, 2007 9:41 am

Lots a pipe dreams here. Take your hashish with a pinch of salt.

phil · Post by **phil** » Tue May 01, 2007 10:38 am

> there's currently no real terminal or drop off point

Just use a flat car and a hydraulic piston to launch that container at an appropriate point in the playa. Be sure the video is running; it's be on all the stations.

Talk about drop off point. Talk about real terminal.

Post by **trilobyte** » Wed May 16, 2007 12:02 pm

Aaron, I know of several shipping containers that head out to BRC, but it's my understanding that they all travel over land by truck. It's possible that they go from SF to Reno by rail, but odds are that's all handled by a freight/logistics company.

I'll keep my eyes/ears open for the name of the company that camps like Disorient, Spike's, etc. may use, and get back to you if I hear anything.

~Trilo~

searock420 · Post by **searock420** » Thu May 17, 2007 6:40 pm

And listen to Trilo.His advice is usually really good

Post by **mdmf007** » Thu May 17, 2007 8:22 pm

53 foot trailer dropped on playa and picked up a week later =

from seattle, 2450 in mileage + 750 for 2 weeks trailer rental
From Boise, 1950 in mileage + 750 for 2 weeks trailer rental

simply figure it out yourself. its gonna run you just shy of 2 bones a mile, plus trailer rental.

look online or call locally for any of the national trucking chains.

In addition to our own tractors, we ship hundreds of loads all over at amoments notice to clean up others messesm -Even with diesel so hi gh I am still surprised how reasonable shipping is.

later

falk · Post by **falk** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:05 pm

How much does that come to per ton-mile, on average? And how much from the Bay Area?

Post by **mdmf007** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:21 am

looks to be 324 miles from SF to Gerlach. = 600-750 each way for 30 tons of cargo (capacity of a 53 footer) 375 a week for trailer rental

that would be about 2250 RT for 650 miles 75.00 a ton,

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:08 am

You can buy trailers starting at $1000-$2000 if that works out for you.
An independent driver can save you some money.
And if you could get the driver to attend...

You could probably get containers dropped off in reno or drive them all the way in.

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:58 am

There's plenty of burners who have CDLs, although they're often busy hauling their own camps. Bribery, that's the ticket.

At Singularity:

Yes, he had permission to be down in Primm. No, he didn't bring a trailer. Yes, I slept in the nice air conditioned tractor.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:03 pm

Nice truck.

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:06 pm

It is, isn't it?

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:16 pm

I don't think you have to have a cdl if it's a non-commercial haul.
You do have to know what you're doing though.
I don't know how that would apply if it's a rental.

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:24 pm

Ah, yes you do need a CDL for that class of truck no matter what you're hauling. Now, this may not be true in, oh, Texas, but don't you dare cross the state line.

For example, in Utah:

When do I need a Utah CDL instead of my regular Utah Drivers License?
A Utah CDL is required if you operate any of the following CMV's . . .
1. A vehicle with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 26,000 lbs.
2. A vehicle towing a unit with a manufacturer's GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs. when the GCWR exceeds 26,000 lbs.
3. A vehicle used to . . .(a.) carry 15 or more passengers (excluding the driver), or (b.) carry (15) or less people (including the driver) when carrying children to or from school and home regularly for compensation.
4. A vehicle carrying hazardous materials in amounts requiring placarding.

Cargo is not a defining factor, unless it falls into the hazmat category.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration-l ... dl/cdl.htm

Haven't we had this conversation before?

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:57 pm

Yes, we did.
Everyone I have checked with says it is related to compensation and business as to whether cdls are required.
I guess I have to check further.
My insurance company has agreed to convert my insurance to rv when they are satisfied to call the truck an rv.
Purely an arbitrary distinction on their part, but they are aware what vehicle I'm talking about.
There are a lot of rvs that exceed those weight limits.
That seems odd.
It does seem cdls aren't required here.
Of course, you still have to operate within all the rules.
I'll look further.

What I was told exactly was that most states require a cdl with air brakes so many people must convert even though air brakes are not the difficult element they once were.

A friend just got back in town after hitting colorado and points south.
He picked up a 57 mm cannon and part of a halftrack.
What fun!

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:13 pm

From what I've seen, some of those monster RVs should have specially licensed drivers. Scary!

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:28 pm

I found this in the section of the appendix titled
Drivers Waived from Obtaining a Commercial Driver's License
(state optional)

R. V. - Persons operating recreational vehicles for personal recreation. Does not include operation of such vehicles used to conduct business.

Personal -Persons operating vehicles used to transport personal goods or equipment. Such persons would use the vehicle to transport household goods when moving, or
when renting a vehicle to perform household repairs. Does not include operation of such vehicles used to conduct business.

There is a chart of all states at the end of the page.
Most states list RVs, some exempt all personal use.
I'll have to check. but I would imagine they honor other state's rules.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safety-securit ... chap02.htm

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:34 pm

Back when I was doing Battlebots, they worked out a deal with a company called Associated Global for competitors to ship their robots and tools to the event for a discounted rate. Volunteers set up a dropoff point at the arena to collect the deliveries and let people pick them up.

It might be worth looking into setting up a similar deal with them or another transit company. There will be a lot of work involved though to keep things organized and get stuff to/from camps.

Post by **mdmf007** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:17 pm

CDL program is very simple you need a Commercial Drivers License if (these are the minimums from USDOT. - states can add more restrictions if they like)

1. Vehicle weighs more than 26001 pounds
2. Is engaged in interstate commmerce
3. Has air brakes at any weight or size.
4. Has 16 or more PAYING passengers
5. Hauls HAZMAT that requires placarding

There you go, Some states add more of a twist to it, but thats the minimums you will find in every state. There are a few exemptions for firefighters, response vehicles, declerations of emergency, etc... but those do not apply to hauling all your gear to BM for most people

later

Post by **AntiM** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:36 am

I'm still looking for the chart with the classes of vehicles in it ... combination vehicles are Class A, and require a CDL to drive, whether commercial or non-commercial. RVs are generally exempt. I'll find it, give me time. I've seen it, didn't bookmark it.

Here's the most comprehensive guide I've found about RVs and state by state license requirements:

http://changingears.com/rv-sec-state-rv-license.shtml

Interestingly enough, California has a fifth wheel endorsement by weight.

And in Nevada, you need a non-commercial Class A to drive an RV over 26,000: http://www.dmvnv.com/nvdl.htm GOOD TO KNOW! Nevada is the most specific with the definitions of who needs a CDL in their state, a tractor-trailer requires a class A. Period.

Really though, would you want to share the road with someone driving a semi who hadn't been trained?

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:05 am

You shouldn't drive anything without knowing how to handle it.
If you can't handle something in an emergency, you should never get on the road with it at all.
Your first emergency stop should be in a parking lot in the rain and not on the street.
I don't think any driving tests in the us address real driving skills needed.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:28 am

Nevada is one of the states with an exemption for personal use.
They require an endorsement for rv use.
Sometimes you just have to ask how they apply the law.
There is often case law that doesn't show up easily.
Some dmvs are just inconsistent.

If I'm using a tractor trailer as an rv and the state has different rules for rv and personal use, how will they address that?

I have a friend that kept getting tickets for a vehicle that was legal, so he finally tagged it even though it isn't required.
We have a trailer tag law, but it also says I can't get tags for a small trailer I have due to multiple conflicting laws.
Our dmv is a mess.
I wouldn't be shocked if the same thing is true in many places.
I read all the dmv law here last year and almost none of the original rules still apply due to case law.
I wasn't looking for tractor trailer rules though.

I'm curious as to whether rv is a technical term or an arbitrary one.
Travel trailer is actually a technical designation.
The increasing use of 53 foot trailers as rvs may have some effect though.

Post by **AntiM** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:46 am

Our utility trailer doesn't need to be registered here in Utah as long as it never leaves the state. However, once we put a plate on it, it has to stay registered. Of course, if we're ever stopped, we can just take the plate off and then we're legal. Weird.

I've been looking at a lot of the commercial vs rv laws in several states, most of them get around the personal use by designating a class a requirement for any combo vehicle. Rvs, being "straight," are the exception.

I bet if you drive safely, Nevada would leave you alone. I do know a bus from Utah was waaay top-heavy, enough that they got pulled over and scaled by HP because they couldn't hold their lane. Had to unload cargo from the roof onto an rv. Managed to tear the roof rack off the rv as it was. Yikes!

I have got to see your rv rig if you ever get it to the playa, sounds intriguing.

Mostly I worry about someone with a car license getting the idea they can drive a big rig if it is Not for Hire. That's just dangerous. Training is usually three weeks or so, plus a stint with a driver/trainer, then a probationary period.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:15 am

Right now I'm trying to get a 27 foot with a 460ci class c.
You know, an economy vehicle.

I have two 44 foot ice cream reefers that would work great but I also have a line on a 28 foot air ride reefer with two side doors that would be great.
If I went with the wrecker base, I might just put my airstream on it and I would only tow anything for special or long term travel.
It would be nice to be able to shift the trailers when I needed to myself.
I have a friend who has agreed to teach me to drive and he is highly skilled.
I think in some ways a semi is easier than a short wheelbase rv to control.
My airstream weighs about 5000 pounds empty.

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:32 am

3. Has air brakes at any weight or size.

Actually, Wisconsin doesn't require an air brake endorsement if the vehicle being driven is a school bus converted to an RV. (I asked while at Driver's License training up at the State Patrol Academy.)

B.

Thecatman · Post by **Thecatman** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:51 pm

[quote="BAS"][quote]3. Has air brakes at any weight or size.[/quote]

[color=green]Actually, Wisconsin doesn't require an air brake endorsement if the vehicle being driven is a school bus converted to an RV. (I asked while at Driver's License training up at the State Patrol Academy.) What about a three axle greyhound bus being converted to an RV? It's my understanding that the owner of a motorhome/rv that uses air brakes is requiered to take some sort of test showing this person has a basic knowledge of how air brakes operate. At least in Nevada thats how it is.

Post by **mdmf007** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:03 pm

Feds still require CDL for Air brakes - but since the feds do not enforce DOT laws and leave it to the state, the state can simply ignore what they want - is it legal probably not, but you can get away with a lot.

Best example - street rods, Take a hot Chevy belair, with slicks 600 HP, 30 inch Mickey Thompson Street Cheaters for tires, and a cop wont care if you have plates on it, seat belts, and lots of other goodies.

later all

eric

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:38 pm

Is that why I never had to put new tags on the car?
Worst response was, oh get some tags.
No tickets yet.
Of course it's only 500 horsepower.
I figure 180 mph is really fast enough.
Cops seem to like the car.

__________________________
Racing is life.
Everything else is waiting.