GLOWFUR!

soupman · Post by **soupman** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:41 am

HA!

www.glowfur.com

Sorry if this has already surfaced in another thread... thought it was kinda cool...

They also have a glowfur bracelet for sale... from which 100% of the profits will be going to the Black Rock Arts Foundation.

Cheers!

phil · Post by **phil** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:11 pm

Video of glowfur in action:
http://civilizedexplorer.phanfare.com/a ... D=17493568

Mr.Powers · Post by **Mr.Powers** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:17 pm

HAHA, sweet!!!

Post by **trilobyte** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:53 pm

Very cool stuff, and the inventor/creator is a really nice guy. Patient too, considering how many hours he spent making the coat he wore on the playa last year.

~Trilo~

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:08 pm

I wanted some of that stuff for Nothing-to-Prove's belly-breast-inner thighs fur but he told me it requires a retrofitting. The fur itself doesn't glow.

I didn't want to send him the fur for the b-b-its and wait on a third party for a part to be retrofitted and driving down to Colorado with the puppet was out of the question, so I'm going to try my own experimentation with lighting up her fur with EL wire.

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:54 am

Who has seen this stuff up close? Am I right in thinking this is a fur coat with EL wire between the fur and the inner lining? (looks like that in the vid)

Badger

phil · Post by **phil** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:01 pm

I've seen it up close (I took the video). I have no idea how they do it. EL wire, in my _very_ humble opinion is a good guess, but I would expect to see the wire instead of the even glow. Take a look at the video again near the end when the guy is jumping around and you see both the outside and the lining - even glow throughout with no hot spots showing where he's got the wire.

I guess that's why he gets the big bucks. :->

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:16 pm

capjbadger wrote: Am I right in thinking this is a fur coat with EL wire between the fur and the inner lining?

IF it's el-wire it ain't the kind we regularly see. I saw a couple of these at Apogaea last weekend...my guess is that the light source is el-wire technology but carried through the coat with fibre optic fur.

pbmaniac2000 · Post by **pbmaniac2000** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:58 pm

HeHe. I know how it works. I do all of the internal lighting systems for the glowfur company.

If anyone is even thinking about buying one, i say do it. They are awesome. You will never get run over by an art car, or rogue biker again. lol.

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:49 pm

Do you use Luminex?

pbmaniac2000 · Post by **pbmaniac2000** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:54 pm

Nope, magic fairy dust.

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:58 am

Teo del Fuego wrote:
capjbadger wrote: Am I right in thinking this is a fur coat with EL wire between the fur and the inner lining?
IF it's el-wire it ain't the kind we regularly see. I saw a couple of these at Apogaea last weekend...my guess is that the light source is el-wire technology but carried through the coat with fibre optic fur.

I looked at all the videos again. It seems like there is clear lines of light going through the fabric. Looks like thin, high flex, high output EL wire.

Badger

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:26 pm

Just got confirmation of my theory. Someone on the NYC Burner list bought one of those and tore it down to see what made it work. Its El wire in a paisley/random/loopy type pattern that is close enough together that you cant see the wire pattern diffused through the fur.

Hell, I can make that easy.

Badger

phil · Post by **phil** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:02 am

From Japan: http://www.gizmodiva.com/fashion/led_dr ... _japan.php

pbmaniac2000 · Post by **pbmaniac2000** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:45 pm

[quote="capjbadger"]Just got confirmation of my theory. Someone on the NYC Burner list bought one of those and tore it down to see what made it work. Its El wire in a paisley/random/loopy type pattern that is close enough together that you cant see the wire pattern diffused through the fur.

Hell, I can make that easy. :D

Badger[/quote]

Please be careful. We have already had to turn quite a few people "off." The technology and idea are both patented.

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:55 pm

Please be careful. We have already had to turn quite a few people "off." The technology and idea are both patented.

First, you can make and copy any patent you want, you just can't legally sell it. Second, unless you have some really good lawyers I doubt such a patent would hold up in court, unless they are using your specific patterns. The great thing about patent fights is that if you fail to defend your patent, you're stuck with most of the others costs. I'm guessing there is not much that can be done with light up clothing that would not be considered obvious or that there are not numerous examples of prior art.

pbmaniac2000 · Post by **pbmaniac2000** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:10 am

[quote="MikeVDS"][quote]Please be careful. We have already had to turn quite a few people "off." The technology and idea are both patented.[/quote]

First, you can make and copy any patent you want, you just can't legally sell it. Second, unless you have some really good lawyers I doubt such a patent would hold up in court, unless they are using your specific patterns. The great thing about patent fights is that if you fail to defend your patent, you're stuck with most of the others costs. I'm guessing there is not much that can be done with light up clothing that would not be considered obvious or that there are not numerous examples of prior art.[/quote]

They could make it, but the second you start to do anything fishy you can step in. If you start making it for friends or anything. The patent would easily hold up. You put the el wire in any fur object and you are violating the patent. The second thing is that i doubt anyone on this board is willing to go to court over a jacket. Most stop screwing around right away. With the cost of lawyers these days someone would be stupid not too.

Davoid · Post by **Davoid** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:42 am

Congratulations, it looks cool. Now then, let me know if any patent violation busts are going to happen on the playa, so I can be there to watch. I love good playa theater.

D'oh, that reminds me, better patent my strobo-cycle, lest...you know.

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:37 am

The patent would easily hold up. You put the el wire in any fur object and you are violating the patent. The second thing is that i doubt anyone on this board is willing to go to court over a jacket.

You my friend have no idea what you're talking about. I have no doubt that many people run scared when you send a legal sounding letter, but your patent has zero chance of winning in court, especially if it is as you describe. What is your patent number? I'll gladly violate it since I know some lawyers who'd appreciate the extra income.

For those of you who may not know better, the way U.S. patents work is the patent office will give just about anyone a patent on just about anything. There are certain criteria that must be met in the document, but they don't care too much about what it is, unless it's been patented before. This makes sense, because it'd be impossible to search for prior art or understand every technical patent that comes along. So he may have a patent on EL wire in fur (I'll look it his "patent" later). If you're issued a patent, you have to pay periodic fees to maintain it, and it's your responsibility to enforce it. If you do not enforce it, you give it up. In addition if you attempt to enforce it and the person either shows that the idea is obvious (which it is since I've had many light up clothes, unless of course he invented light wire, then kudos on the genius. I really doubt the court would differentiate between EL in fur and EL in any other fabric) or there are examples of people doing it before they submitted the patent (which I have no doubt there is as well). Then if you try to enforce it and your patent is ruled against, guess who gets stuck with both parties fees? The one trying to enforce it. So really I think your company should fear enforcing such a stupid patent, which I have no doubt they do, which is why they stick their goons on message boards to threaten people.

Finally pb-biggestasshatI'veheardfrominalongtime2000, what kind of asshole comes on a burningman board and threatens people with lawsuits for an immaculately stupid patent to begin with? Go back to fucking your grandmothers rotten maggot infested pussy you, little dickless prick. Go back home and finish licking up the putrid vomit you've no doubt spewed everywhere else.

Love ya!

wedeliver · Post by **wedeliver** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:54 am

pbmaniac2000 wrote:They could make it, but the second you start to do anything fishy you can step in. If you start making it for friends or anything. The patent would easily hold up. You put the el wire in any fur object and you are violating the patent. The second thing is that i doubt anyone on this board is willing to go to court over a jacket. Most stop screwing around right away. With the cost of lawyers these days someone would be stupid not too.

Is it just me or does that kinda sound like a threat? I now feel compelled to buy some fir coats and el wire the hell out of 'em. They would make a great gift.

I am in the process to apply for a patent to put elwire in panties and bras. (considering a vibrating elwire for the panties) and shoes and hats and elwire. we will el wire the el wire.

scotto · Post by **scotto** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:16 am

I am in the process to apply for a patent to put elwire in panties and bras. (considering a vibrating elwire for the panties) and shoes and hats and elwire. we will el wire the el wire.

Be Careful...

That idea is already taken, though I do not know if there is a patent.

http://www.enlighted.com/

Illuminated clothing and other glowing creations by Janet Hansen
San Diego Burner
[/quote]

CapSmashy · Post by **CapSmashy** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:52 am

wedeliver wrote:Is it just me or does that kinda sound like a threat? I now feel compelled to buy some fir coats and el wire the hell out of 'em. They would make a great gift.

I think it does sound like a threat.

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:00 am

*Comes back in the room and sees smoking ruins*
Whoa... What the hell blew up in here??

Mike is right.

A: The patent is rather dumb. Good luck on enforcing it. (what's the patent number again? I didn't catch it the first time you didn't post it...)

B: You can't do a damn thing if I don't sell them PB. I said I could make it easy, not sell it. Don't get your panties all in a bunch (glowing or otherwise

)

C: Don't threaten us. You'll just get laughed at. Plus it's sad to see people whine. ;P

Go back to fucking your grandmothers rotten maggot infested pussy you, little dickless prick. Go back home and finish licking up the putrid vomit you've no doubt spewed everywhere else.

Mike man... While I agree with the basic thought behind it, wasn't that a bit much? Classy insults sting more that the gutter type. It's so much more satisfying when the target knows they're being insulted, but is too dumb to really understand. Nothing stings like a joke you're not in on.

Badger

pbmaniac2000 · Post by **pbmaniac2000** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:16 am

Ok here is the problem you guys run around in here like a bunch of ass hats. A burner thought of an incredibly awesome idea, not a single one of you in here did. So he decided to try and make a living off of doing somthing he loved. He goes out and hires four other people to help him in the company. He goes out of his way and pays more than he needs to so that he can hire all burners. Once again keeping all the money in our own community.

So whats the first thing you guys in the "burner" community do? Go out and rip open one of our products so that you can figure out how its done. Then you run around blabing to everyone about how to do. A true burner would have looked at the clothing and gone wow thats really awesome. Thats an awesome idea, and were can i get some. Not wow lets tear it apart then run around on the burning man forums trying to show other people how to do it. For a bunch of people all about "community" you sure do not support your fellow burners.

**On a side note i met Janet Hansen out at a fashion convention in las vegas. Her product is also very very cool. She will probably be putting one of her lighting systems in a kilt of mine for burning man. Can't wait she is an awesome lady.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:22 am

Mike, I agree with a lot of your posts in the past, and I think you're definitely on to something on this topic with the "non-obvious" argument. But that last paragraph. What were you thinking dude? Yeah, I too was a little put off by PB's misguided attempt to protect his or his friend's livelihood.

Don't confuse patent law with copyright law. Patent law applies to one who not only sells or offers to sell without authorization a product made with a patented process, but it applies to someone who, without authorization, "makes" or "uses" such products.

It is unclear whether recent case law has acknowledged an "experimental use" or "fair use" defense with regard to patents. Clearly such defenses exist in copyright law, particularly since 1976 when the common law defense of fair use was codified.

Having said all this, what would be the monetary damages if I decide to take a bunch of el-wire and loop it inside a fur coat to make my own Glow Fur for my own use? Would this actually constitute infringement if I did not use the exact type of el-wire and did not loop it in the same pattern? Also, could I not legitimately state that this was an obvious application of existing technology? Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches sealed with crimped edges was not a "non-obvious" application when Smuckers sued to enforce its patent for same. The Court noted that raviolli had for centuries been secured by crimped edges. Burners have been sticking lights, LEDs, el-wire and glow sticks in and on clothes for years.

Glow Fur is really cool, its owned by Burners, and if they could just bring the damn price down to more reasonable levels, they would be famously rich by Friday.

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:30 am

A burner thought of an incredibly awesome idea, not a single one of you in here did.

Don't pat yourself on the back too much since, as stated before, glowing clothing is not really your idea. I feel sorry for you if you feel that is an "incredibly awesome idea". The pictures of glow clothes from here look good, but gimme a break about the "new idea" thing.

A true burner would have looked at the clothing and gone wow thats really awesome. Thats an awesome idea, and were can i get some.

Not sure where you find your definition of "true burner" but the whole reliance and non commerce things makes me think of people who make things for themselves and definitively not people who try to intimidate and threaten to sue people who try to do things for themselves. Sorry if you cannot make as much money as you'd like off your business without trying to monopolize a cool product with an obvious idea.

While I agree with the basic thought behind it, wasn't that a bit much? Classy insults sting more that the gutter type.

And the graphic description thing was a little much, but I felt it was the best way in words I could describe people like that. I'm not very classy. Have any advice?

pbmaniac2000 · Post by **pbmaniac2000** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:41 am

teo del fuego, you make some awesome points. Its a very hard thing to prove though that you were doing this years before. You can put glow sticks in your fur coats all day long. Its not "our thing." Could you make your own glowfur if you really really wanted to. Yes a few people already have, but its like making your own camelback. Cool, its still not a camelback though. lol. (dumb example, but you get the point)

Our prices have actually come down a lot over the past couple of month. Full length coats use to be $1,500 now they are $800. I know that not everyone can afford to spend that much on a coat. Trust me i'm one of them. But our hats and smaller stuff are still totally awesome. Since we lowered our prices we are actually having problems because we are getting "too many" orders. At this point we are backed up for quite a few weeks.

For everyone refering to the "sporatic looping" we no longer use that method. Too many problems occured and we are now using a different method that has yet to produce any problems at all.

On to mike, once again. Are we going to sue one person because they make a coat. Probably not. If you really want to make one for yourself knock yourself out. Like I said though if you start doing "weird" things like teaching classes on how to do it, or trying to sell them yourself then we have stepped in before. Do you really want to go to court and spend tons and tons of money on lawyers over something like this? Its our way of making a living. You don't see us trying to put leds in our coats do you? No because thats enlighted's idea, and we respect her for that. We make our products and try to have fun with it. Just trying to keep the "magic" alive.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:08 pm

PB, your best argument for non-obvious is the fact that the first half of this post started off with a discussion of "geeze, how did they do that?"

Glad to hear the price is coming down. I bet the more the product takes off the more economy of scale will kick in. Do you guys know about the retail store in Denver called Things That Glow? I haven't been to it yet, but could be a possible retail outlet.

Do you usually camp with a theme camp? Just wondering if I know you.

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:24 pm

pbmaniac2000 wrote:Just trying to keep the "magic" alive.

And by "magic" you mean "profits". Please...

Can I legally teach a class on how to build one? You're damn right I can. Can I charge to teach that class? Probably not.

Badger

pbmaniac2000 · Post by **pbmaniac2000** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:35 pm

Teo Del Fuego, yes we have actually talked quite a few times with things that glow. I love going up there to play with all the fun toys. lol. We may do something with them soon. The problem always seems to resort back to price. Most (not all) of the products at things that glow are in the cheaper range. We may set up a little glowfur area though, where people can see the products then order them. Probably won't carry a stock of stuff though. Once again nothing is for sure in the fashion industry. lol.

Badger. No by magic i literally mean magic. There is something cool about seeing glowfur and not knowing how it works. Its litterally a magic trick, its amazing to see but as soon as you find out how it works it ruins the whole appeal of the trick. On the classes thing not really. There was a guy in new york who was teaches classes. He turned out to be an awesome guy. He saw the coat at burning man last year and figured out how it worked. He started teaching classes on how to make them. We found out about it, and just simply asked him if he could stop since it is patented. He was totally cool and stopped right away. No harm done at all. totally cool guy. Could you do a class? sure if you really really wanted to, but its just less hassle for us if you don't.

Edit: Sorry forgot to add that i was with camp happy cock last year.

GLOWFUR!

GLOWFUR!

And then there's the glow dress