Some Theme Camps unaproachable

Gothalot · Post by **Gothalot** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 8:46 am

Revoking my Goth Card, well I never, pashaw who needs the Local 666 anyway! Next Burnng Man I will conduct stealthy excersise's deep into Gigsville territory to procure more vodka. Gothalot lives! (in an undead sorta way)

Reed B · Post by **Reed B** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 12:45 pm

Ever notice how only a sibling really knows the best way to push another siblings buttons?

Ever notice how we take things for granted in our hometown?

I believe the most important thing for a person to see is often the most difficult thing for them to see -- this is almost axiomatic.

Now to this set of posts which I have read many, but -- by far -- not the majority of. The topic is essentially, "how welcoming were some in BRC -- a place itself defined to be extremely welcoming." You could just about as well as, "how well did the whole thing come off?" or "can the giving spirit be scaled over growth and time of BRC?" What about that other objective most important: "can what is happening that is good about sharing at BRC be taken to the rest of the world in a way that makes a difference?"

It is no surprise to me that such a topic would invite all types of perspectives and responses, because it is at the very heart of evoluation, society, culture, etc. The conversation I had with many of the more 'willing to stop for a moment and be introspective' burners (which were many), was the balance between giving and getting. While I believe that this is merely one facet of the bigger question only hinted at by the foregoing, it is representative in that even just one facet of the big question is something that some have thought about explicitly and others only have some feeling towards without ever having cognizantly addressed the more general question of that one facet. I.e. everyone has a propensity on giving versus getting, and few are at the extremes, because this is an axis in society where balance is required .. a type of balance that constantly shifts from epoch to epoch and situation to situation. Here I think personally that general rules are critical important but are few and far between. Perhaps the rule should be merely that one should always strive for a balance between giving and getting, and should err on the side of giving, but be wise with respect to giving too much.

I love that Burning Man creates an opportunity to consider something so simple, yet complex, which is so critically important to each of us (I believe) whether we know it or not.

I will go a step further to say that I believe the world is infinite, therefore the is much room for diversity -- but that what works well for a group like us humans -- our human family -- is exactly sharing and cooperating and that a better COGNIZANT sense of this (which Burning Man I think begins to advance) continues to come and is key to the evolution of the human race.

Any agreement or disagreement?

How about these simple further points of view (agreement?/disagreement?):

1) Burning Man on the whole still represents far great approachability and sharing than any other community.

2) Forethought in BM's organization has probably substantially benefitted the degree of approachability and sharing rendered in the experience.

3) This thread of comments/posts can be used by the organizers to try to divine some further FAQ, recommendations, or rules that would/wouldn't further advance the idealism of sharing and approachability at BM. (If so, who needs to read and divine?)

Thanks...

Anybody got something cold to drink?... oops, I mean, anybody like a sip of this soy ice chai? ha ha ha

Reed

Zane5100 · Post by **Zane5100** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:20 am

*yawn*

TestesInSac · Post by **TestesInSac** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:52 am

Zane5100 wrote:*yawn*

Hey, now, yer dissin' the evangelism here.

Zane5100 · Post by **Zane5100** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 10:04 am

casnimot wrote:
Zane5100 wrote:*yawn*
Hey, now, yer dissin' the evangelism here.

Yep.

I'm in pissy mood too.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 10:07 am

Reed B wrote: How about these simple further points of view (agreement?/disagreement?):

1) Burning Man on the whole still represents far great approachability and sharing than any other community.

I have found there are many approachable people on the playa. There are also assholes. Perhaps you allow yourself to be more approachable on the playa?

Reed B wrote: 2) Forethought in BM's organization has probably substantially benefitted the degree of approachability and sharing rendered in the experience.

no, the folks who you camped with, or talked to, or shared chai with are the individuals who made it approachable. they are your neighbors. they are your community.

Reed B wrote: 3) This thread of comments/posts can be used by the organizers to try to divine some further FAQ, recommendations, or rules that would/wouldn't further advance the idealism of sharing and approachability at BM. (If so, who needs to read and divine?)

if you are a participant and want it to be more "approachable," then do it. don't abdicate your own responsibility and delegate it to "the organizers."

Steven bradford · Post by **Steven bradford** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 10:54 am

Hi Zane, sorry I missed you!

I've generally found Jiffy Lube to be the least approachable camp. It's reminded me of the worst throwbacks to secretive gay club culture. This year though it was merely creepy and annoying. I got the impression that it wasn't GGreg's camp this year, and that he'd re-established Maschcara, which I missed, so maybe the 'tude move there.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 11:19 am

Here I think personally that general rules are critical important but are few and far between. Perhaps the rule should be merely that one should always strive for a balance between giving and getting, and should err on the side of giving, but be wise with respect to giving too much.

I don't know that you can place such rules on these very subjective intangibles. One of the problems I see is how this whole fucking 'gifting' thing is set up so artificially and superficially. Everyone from Larry on down drags it into the street for all to see and the implicit message - especially to the first timers - is that this is almost a pre-requesite to attend - to 'get' - Burning Man. I don't subscribe to it. I never have.

I have had more than my share of things given to me by both strangers and friends and I believe I've returned in the same measure. But doing so was not out of any sense of obligation or requirement. I did it out of a sense of non-condition. Non-condition meaning that I'm not attached to the results of my giving. I've had people gift me something and then seen in their eyes a sense of expectation as if I was expected, no required, to return in the same measure. I just give the thing back to them because anything less than unconditional giving has a 'shadow' attached to it and I want no part of that.... ooops gotta go to lunch...[/i]

joel the ornery · Post by **joel the ornery** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:06 pm

Gee, I am sort of glad I didn't attend this year.

tbone · Post by **tbone** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 5:34 pm

Isotopia wrote: One of the problems I see is how this whole fucking 'gifting' thing is set up so artificially and superficially. Everyone from Larry on down drags it into the street for all to see and the implicit message - especially to the first timers - is that this is almost a pre-requesite to attend - to 'get' - Burning Man. I don't subscribe to it. I never have.

I have had more than my share of things given to me by both strangers and friends and I believe I've returned in the same measure. But doing so was not out of any sense of obligation or requirement. I did it out of a sense of non-condition. Non-condition meaning that I'm not attached to the results of my giving. I've had people gift me something and then seen in their eyes a sense of expectation as if I was expected, no required, to return in the same measure. I just give the thing back to them because anything less than unconditional giving has a 'shadow' attached to it and I want no part of that.... ooops gotta go to lunch...[/i]

This was so well said, that it needed to be said again.

Well, except for the lunch part. It's actually time for afternoon coffee.

Trash · Post by **Trash** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 1:39 pm

Dont like a theme camp? Wander to another one. Or better yet do a good one of your own. You are sick of seeing the same theme camp then dont visit that one. The amount of work and materials it takes putting together a decent camp often dictates that the camp will steadily improve on what they are doing instead of starting over from scratch.

I did my 1st art car of my own this year, instead of a huge collaberative effort. The only help I had was paying a dear friend to do 11 hours of welding+shoptime while I helped the best I could. Most people loved it. A few people booed it saying its not an art car. I got night time approval by the dmv and someone at the last minute vetoed the approval on my daytime approval. I highly doubt I will do a completely different art car next year if i have the same vehicle. Though I will improve it. While it did not qualify as a day time art car the sheer number of people who stopped and shot pictures of it I do think indicated otherwise. In a normal day of driving in Denver I get atleast 50 smiles, thumbs ups, people asking about my car etc. So far 2 drive by shootings, with passengers leaning out of windows to shoot pictures while driving. My artcar is my only car.

I camped with astral headwash this year. They have been doing the same thing year after year, but I am pretty sure nobody was complaining about it. We normally had huge lines before opening for the day. We certainly were not open 247 or anywhere near there. Limited water, hair washers and water evaporation worked well to limit how much we could do. No I did not wash any hair, but I have dreads and barely wash my own. However I did put in atleast 8 hours doing 1st aid in various places, mainly blisters & playa foot.

My 4th burn and I finally camped somewhere not on the esplanade. The level of day after day stupidity you have to deal with in camp seems to depend directly with how close you are to the esplanade. It can be pretty draining dealing with it.

Thanks porchcamp, you were great neighbors. Loved having a late night smoker friendly camp nearby my non smoking camp of morning people. Love my campmates dearly but it was nice to park on your couch and hang out.

Gifts I gave out included 1st aid, red led earrings, much appreciated little nugs for those slaving at the coffee shop & as a special gift, rides home for the tired and lost in my art car. 1st aid I gave to anyone who needed it, red earrings some random and some as a gift in return. Expect nothing but a wonderful time.

-Trash

Glittering Clitoris · Post by **Glittering Clitoris** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:34 pm

I've never had a camp say no to me

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:35 pm

But have you ever said "no" to a camp?

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:43 pm

RSR...

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:28 pm

Trying to start a car?

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:49 am

Sorry - was gonna go back and fix that...

Radical Self Reliance.

(Or Reprehensible Snivelly Rant!)

(been guilty of both myself..)

bb

Fat SAM · Post by **Fat SAM** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:38 pm

I don't think there's any question that there are a lot of total cocks on the Playa, though. Last year, we asked our neighbors if we could ride on their art car for the burn. They told us it was BYOB. We got a cooler together and loaded it while they were loading their stuff. They said they'd be leaving in about 15 minutes so my girl made herself busy getting ready to go. While we were in the camper (seriously, like...two minutes after we passed them the cooler) they split. They waited until we were all inside and drove off. Thanks, guys.

I'm still a little bitter about that one.

stormfeather · Post by **stormfeather** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:16 pm

sounds like you were ditched dude....

Y'all play nice during recess ya hear!!!!

There's always been...
nice kids and mean kids,
thin girls and smart girls
gentlemen and cads

Just ...

Be good
Have fun
teach others

joel the ornery · Post by **joel the ornery** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:20 pm

Glittering Clitoris wrote:I've never had a camp say no to me

i would have a hard time (pun intended) turning away a Glittering Clitorus.

mojo · Post by **mojo** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:38 pm

Just like a bass on the lure eh Joel? Mesmerizing, ain't it?

honeyfire · Post by **honeyfire** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:19 pm

tbone sayed:
"I managed to avoid the patchuli bath drum circle things and will defent their right to be there, no matter how lame I think they are" - bolds mine

the fabulous Isotopia sayed:
"[BM has] always been about a gathering of tribes ... where a segment contributes to the general overall flavor " - bolds mine

It's like the First Amendment, it applies to everyone or it's not applying to anyone.
Some of the things that people are free to say make my skin crawl, i disagree completely and vehemently, but i totally support their right to say it.

As long as we're not liveMOOP, we're part of it and we add to the experience.
Don't like it?
Don't look.

Alchemy · Post by **Alchemy** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:16 am

GET OFFA MY LAWN HIPPIE!!

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:15 pm

IJ just want to sit outside Bad Idea Theatre with a sign that sayz "I shook hands with Danger."

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:19 pm

"A few of very elaborate theme camps seemed to have their own party going on and weren't very friendly when we approached to share our spirit and friendship!"

Are you serious? Are you a moocher? I spent a lot of money for the theme camps for my rich friends only. You got the cash, you can come in. Why would exclusionary behavior be any different from the outside world?

Burning man is a lot about exclusion, about what you are not, and will never be. How free it is. I have been going since '99. What have I learned? That most people come back still high from the week and tell everyone how rich the experience was. Yeah, anything is good when you smoke wonderful reefer.

I spent $45,000 of my own money on my camp. Invitation only. I'm sorry. The last thing I need is some dickhead coming in and pissing in the corner of my camp because he can't find the bathroom and does not remember his name. Jeez.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:32 pm

You'd think with 800 or 900 theme camps there'd be room for a few toffs among the ones spreading their cheeks for everyone.

Hamandegger · Post by **Hamandegger** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:55 am

My guess is that Slut was welcome every where she went. I am a middle aged man and a non drinker. Occasionally I would approach a bar with a request for a drink of water. The looks I received from the bartenders before I even made my request were often mildly hostile and uninviting. As if they feared I would take up valuable bar space they were holding open for sluts.
Their loss, I always paid for my drink with fungus. My favorite hangouts are Spikes and the Hotel (Ashram). Always generous and universally inviting. I always bring gifts of alcohol, bar snacks etc.. to those fine establishments. The Man is just like everywhere else, you get what you pay for, if you are lucky.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:14 am

Hamandegger wrote:My guess is that Slut was welcome every where she went. I am a middle aged man and a non drinker. Occasionally I would approach a bar with a request for a drink of water. The looks I received from the bartenders before I even made my request were often mildly hostile and uninviting. As if they feared I would take up valuable bar space they were holding open for sluts.
Their loss, I always paid for my drink with fungus. My favorite hangouts are Spikes and the Hotel (Ashram). Always generous and universally inviting. I always bring gifts of alcohol, bar snacks etc.. to those fine establishments. The Man is just like everywhere else, you get what you pay for, if you are lucky.

\/
you are sure full of yourself this morning..

self rightest name typing female as sluts.. you must live with one to know one..

hateful to anything that comes along..

maybe you should take a drink or at lest a chill pill..

or bettr yet, fuck off

playanakedartisticman420 · Post by **playanakedartisticman420** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:50 am

i'm sorry but i was bored and i actually feel compelled after reading the first posts of this topic so i admit i should have read them all but it seems to me like someone was simply making an observation -- one that i find it hard to believe there isn't some truth to albeit their perspective which is one of the main points of all forums isn't it? to share your perspective.

well, i have learned that the first rule of burning man is to not criticize burning man. i think it speaks volumes about the attendees these days that anyone who may say something negative about burning man is suddenly opening up a "can of worms" that invites a torrent of attacks.

now, i don't agree that everyone should feel welcome everytime to everyones camp but i will say i can't count the number of times i hear the word "community" dropped when discussing burning man -- that would imply that it is at least one of the focal points of the festival and that it is fair for some to expect a little more that what you get from the real world. yet, for anyone suggesting that perhaps some camps are not as inviting as they thought all of sudden these people either 1) don't understand burning man 2) are simply haters and whiners who shouldn't be at burning man 3) or have no valid opinion if they haven't logged as many burning man hours as the rest of you.

i find it kinda hypocritical to say the least and while i agree people shouldn't feel like they have to entertain or offer themselves up to anyone out cruising around. but everyone should feel the right to have their own perspective. it just seems odd that for some peeps who at least seem to glorify the freedoms embraced by burning man they sure can't accept anyone saying anything critical about the festival - almost as if it is a crime to speak badly about bm or if you do then you clearly don't know anything or your some type of frat boy, republic, DEA narc, spy, freedom hater. why all the hyperdefensive sensitivities? is it because sadly a lot more f'd shizzit happened this year and made it out of the dust bowl to the world press? why can't anyone be critical of bm without automatically being labeled a hater by this "community". some pretty f'd up stuff went down and has always gone done and there are screaming negativities about bm but does it make it all bad because of that? no so why be so hyperdefensive about it? let's call a spade a spade -- it is what it is and unfortunately like anything that grows in popularity it has become what is has become but you can still have an incredible time there. and the argument that compared to a city of 45,000 people that a few rapes, fights, theft, arson, and suicides is pretty good stats if the dumbest thing i've ever hear -- why pay $300 plus to drive to the nevada desert if i can just stay in my own city and have my bike stolen, be surrounded by people who can't handle their meds, get an std while being raped, have a frat boy grope me, strip naked and put glitter on my tits, set something on fire and hang myself right here in my own city? which is what most of you by now probably hope i do so i will exercise my right to piss off and know that i'm just another hater, uniformed, right winger who couldn't possibly understand the intricate and profound mystery that is burning man.

pray tell to all you zealots -- then what is the true burning man spirit? you were so quick to crucify the guy who suggested community was part of it but you never offered your version of what bm spirit REALLY is?

C187 · Post by **C187** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:01 pm

All I have to say is camps should have clearly posted times of when they are open to people, and if a event is going on, the people staffing the place should be easy to id. Like Spikes was. Because not everyone used the poorly laid out booklet.

Also, the fucking cunt (and I don't say that word lightly) that handed out the map, booklet, extra package at the second gate needs to never be allowed to work it or anywhere in BRC ever again. She put me and the other people I was with in a bad mood for the first few days. I'm sure it sucked ass to deal with all the cars Monday morning. But you knew what you we're getting into when you volunteered to do the job.

h2a2p · Post by **h2a2p** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:08 pm

"Also, the f***ing c***"

hehe i've only been a couple years, but i always feel like crusty attitude is part of the 'charm' of the event

sorry it brought you guys down tho...

Some Theme Camps unaproachable

This is the most active topic -- HIGHLY IMPORTANT

Re: This is the most active topic -- HIGHLY IMPORTANT

lol how hard can you make it

My personal thoughts, aided by the thoughts of others...

HEY!!!

Re: Some Theme Camps unaproachable

what is the burning man spirti?