Burner Impressions of Christianity

[DJmoYst]

As i have said before, God influences people, he came to moses and sad there will be a flood, take 1 male and 1 female of the animals and put them on a boat. he had his own free will to listen and do what God asked.

You completely missed the point. Who created all the water that covered the earth? Was it just a natural disaster to you or did God intervene with physics and make it happen?

I cant tell you. This is a matter of faith that i hold in my heart to be true. regardless if he caused the disaster and started over, or gave Noah (sorry i don't know why i said moses) the incite to build a boat, i cant tell you. I dont think that anyone who claims to know the answer actually does.

Yeah, he evolved into such a warm fuzzy loving god that he sent his only son here to die a gruesome death for which no one asked or wanted. Save me from my sins? Well, thank you very much! Nail your son to a cross? You sick bastard...You are All-mighty God! Surely there must be some other way!

He didn't nail his son to the cross, humans(with there free will) did. And again, Jesus had the opportunity to back out (free will, he was human) and didn't, he chose to follow threw with Gods plans and sacrifice himself for the world. Can you honestly tell me that God, a superior being living out side of our realm of consciousness would not know the fact that the time on the earth is short term in the life of the soul, but wouldn't he want his son to join him in heaven? Another thing, people need to stop focusing on how he died and look at how he lived his life.

[dana]

Children will deserve to die because they exercised their free will to board jet liners and the Almighty God will remain All-Loving...evidence to the contrary be damned.

Hmmm...... maybe we have entered Nancy and Sluggo world?
(could this be hell?)

First off, I'm no christian! Although I sometimes do try to figure out what their religion is about.

Who said anything suggesting those children deserved to die?!!!

No matter what, God is a tough concept. For me I'm not dumb enough to seek "evidence" about God, only experience - which doesn't seem to lend itself to sharing with others. My belief is not too far off from agnosticism. I make little demands for full clarity.

[Flammepus]

From what I hear, Jesus Christ was a pretty cool dude. I think that it would be great if a religion started up that was based on emulating his tolerance, gentleness, humanity, and all that.

Yeah, I guess that 'Christians' could be pretty cool. Not unlike Budhists perhaps?

If you hear of any, wish them luck for me.

[DJmoYst]

From what I hear, Jesus Christ was a pretty cool dude. I think that it would be great if a religion started up that was based on emulating his tolerance, gentleness, humanity, and all that.

Yeah, I guess that 'Christians' could be pretty cool. Not unlike Budhists perhaps?

If you hear of any, wish them luck for me.

Tolerance: thats what you will most likely see out of Christians at burn.

Thanks for the kind comment.

[dana]

Just remember Jaycer and Teo.....
all us good christians are praying for you.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070725/ap_ ... /death_cat

[Teo del Fuego]

Who said anything suggesting those children deserved to die?!!!

The person who could not follow a logic-based argument and posited that the children died because of their own free will in boarding jet air-liners.

Here's a real world question for everyone. I am contemplating dating a really attractive but very devout Christian who recently quit her job to go to seminary. In many ways we are exactly alike, but, alas, Burning Man and Christianity are not shared interests. Is it possible for such an Odd Couple to make a go of it? By "go" I mean long-term happiness together?

She claims to be very interested in me and announces tolerance for my lifestyle (which is bohemian-tinged corporate cog existence wth a strong side dish of Burning Man.)

She's also a Republican, which I was for years until GW made me see the errors of my ways. Im a secular humanist who is very interested in art, philosophy and ethics. Im afraid I will miss not having someone to share this relatively recent rejuvenation of my creative spirit. Perhaps she could grow as a person, but right now I do not htink she could handle Burning Man.

Oh well, I know this is way off-topic, but maybe someone can speak from experience.

[Green Wood]

Rapture Ready: The Unauthorized Christians United for Israel Tour
Posted July 26, 2007 | 02:20 AM (EST)

On July 16, I attended Christians United for Israel's annual Washington-Israel Summit. Founded by San Antonio-based megachurch pastor John Hagee, CUFI has added the grassroots muscle of the Christian right to the already potent Israel lobby. Hagee and his minions have forged close ties with the Bush White House and members of Congress from Sen. Joseph Lieberman to Sen. John McCain. In its call for a unilateral military attack on Iran and the expansion of Israeli territory, CUFI has found unwavering encouragement from traditional pro-Israel groups like AIPAC and elements of the Israeli government.

But CUFI has an ulterior agenda: its support for Israel derives from the belief of Hagee and his flock that Jesus will return to Jerusalem after the battle of Armageddon and cleanse the earth of evil. In the end, all the non-believers - Jews, Muslims, Hindus, mainline Christians, etc. - must convert or suffer the torture of eternal damnation. Over a dozen CUFI members eagerly revealed to me their excitement at the prospect of Armageddon occurring tomorrow. Among the rapture ready was Republican Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay. None of this seemed to matter to Lieberman, who delivered a long sermon hailing Hagee as nothing less than a modern-day Moses. Lieberman went on to describe Hagee's flock as "even greater than the multitude Moses commanded."

Throughout CUFI's Israel Summit, videographer Thomas Shomaker and I were hounded by PR agents seeking to prevent us from interviewing attendees about the End Times. The conference, we were told, was about "one message" - evangelical Christians supporting Israel. We were instructed to only interview CUFI leaders capable of sticking to the talking point that their support for Israel has, as Hagee declared, "nothing to do with the End Times." But I was forbidden from asking Hagee about statements he made in his book, "Jerusalem Countdown," that appeared to blame Jews for their own persecution. After doing just that during a press conference, I was removed from the conference by off-duty DC cops summoned by members of Hagee's family.

I have covered the Christian right intensely for over four years. During this time, I attended dozens of Christian right conferences, regularly monitored movement publications and radio shows, and interviewed scores of its key leaders. I have never witnessed any spectacle as politically extreme, outrageous, or bizarre as the one Christians United for Israel produced last week in Washington. See for yourself.




What About THIS: Is it a sin within Chrsitanity to go to enter the Great Canadian Beaver Eating Contest?

[dana]

Who said anything suggesting those children deserved to die?!!!

The person who could not follow a logic-based argument and posited that the children died because of their own free will in boarding jet air-liners.

I can see we're going to have to start praying a little harder.....

Looks like the devil is still in control of this one.




(Its a safe bet that someone who obtains some doctorate degree level of education can follow "logic-based arguments"... or were you referring to Heyzeus? I wouldn't let his peculiar statements lull you into questioning his ability. )

And by the way, I know a great couple that consist of a hard-charging bible thumping woman married to a liberal, openly philosophical man. Love and tolerance go together I'd say. But they do have their "tensions" from time to time. I guess just make sure she doesn't plan on converting you or vice versa.
..

[stuart]

I'm down with the general philosophical teachings of Jesus.

I'm pretty not down with christianity. Certainly as it appears to be generally practiced.

[Teo del Fuego]

I know a great couple that consist of a hard-charging bible thumping woman married to a liberal, openly philosophical man. Love and tolerance go together I'd say.

love and tolerance going together--so true, so rare

I wonder how hard it is for a relgious/non-religious Odd couple compared to a Burner non-Burner couple?

I know a couple who seem to be strained a bit every time the end of August rolls around and one goes to the Playa while the other stays home. Burning Man is not my Life, but it sure is my Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving and Halloween.

[dana]

I know a great couple that consist of a hard-charging bible thumping woman married to a liberal, openly philosophical man. Love and tolerance go together I'd say.

love and tolerance going together--so true, so rare

I wonder how hard it is for a relgious/non-religious Odd couple compared to a Burner non-Burner couple?

I have the theory that relationships are supposed to challenge you (without being unmanageble.)
I think part of what works with the couple I know is that she accepts that his secular philosophizing is his spirituality, and he accepts her thumping. They seem to almost like the juxtaposition.
There are certain human values which can cut right through the religeous divide: honesty, caring, intimacy, seeking truth.... You know the drill.

[Apollonaris Zeus]

They suck you in with Jesus and they're only selling you HELL!

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=12301471

Perhaps another good reason to close the borders to Barbarians


AIIZ

[Zhust]

all us good christians are praying for you.

Funny one. Now you want me to believe in "good Christians?" When will the logical fallacy end!

[dana]

all us good christians are praying for you.

Funny one. Now you want me to believe in "good Christians?" When will the logical fallacy end!

at time of death?

[Apollonaris Zeus]

all us good christians are praying for you.

Funny one. Now you want me to believe in "good Christians?" When will the logical fallacy end!

The bad ones are call Devil worshipers

The Devil and Jesus sit on the same corporation!

its a package deal, buy one get the other free!

AIIZ

[dana]

What About THIS: Is it a sin within Chrsitanity to go to enter the Great Canadian Beaver Eating Contest?

Definitely not!

I can't remember where in the bible..... something like:
And thy beaver eating shall be multitude, and ye shall prosper...

Genesis??? It sounds like Genesis I think.



(and don't get me going about the "Rapture". I'm slowly building up to a rant against biblical golden parachutes.)

[Apollonaris Zeus]

I can't remember where in the bible..... something like:
And thy beaver eating shall be multitude, and ye shall prosper...

that's only because it was invented YET!


Burning Man Rapture 2.0

[Apollonaris Zeus]

Thanks for the incoming feedback on my other post topic of Burning Man as a new spiritual outlet.

With this post I'd like folks to feel free to share their impressions of Christianity and Christians, and how this might contrast with their feelings about Burning Man.

So what are your opinions of BM and its views of Christianity.

What are your views of Mormonism and BM.

I believe that the polygamy of mormonism is somewhat synonymous with the polyamous of BM, but is someone misogynous that only men can have multiple wifes and not the other way around.

In a state like Ut and many other western states it would be better for one woman to have many husbands.

What is your opinion and reflection of the many responses you have obtained?

I guess I could give you a good anwser:

Christians= mostly OK
Christianity= not so good

[Apollonaris Zeus]

PS- I should make it clear that I only speak for myself and not for anyone else, eplaya or the admin.

[spectabillis]

i dont think you have to worry about clearing up that az, the dogma of the man is already in place through religious engineering. the man is sacrificed while the ten commandments have memetically infected everyone.

[johnwmorehead]

[quote="dana"][quote="itwazed"]
By the way, what happened to John the thread originator? Any thoughts John, on the direction the thread has gone?[/quote]

I've been lurking and reading, Dana. It has been an interesting collection of responses that are very diverse.

[johnwmorehead]

[quote="Apollonaris Zeus"]So what is Christianity's perspective on Burningman:

We just pay alot of money to burn stuff[/quote]

Yes, the URLs you provided do represent an often unfortunate perspective of some Christians on Burning Man. I referenced some of these in my masters thesis on Burning Man and what Christians might learn from this intentional community and festival. But my thesis represents a very different type of perspective on Burning Man from a Christian, one that is respectful, and approaches the topic from an interdisciplinary perspective. So these unfortunate posts that you reference do not represent the totality of the Christian perspective, thankfully.

[johnwmorehead]

[quote="itwazed"][quote="Teo del Fuego"]Why this topic bugs the shit out of me, Im not sure, except that the title "Impressions" is beyond lame, the original poster who was promoting an incredibly dense academically masturbatory thesis hasn't posted in ages, and religion is like the weather. Everybody talks about it but still it persists and nothing ever gets done about it.
[/quote]

I think somebody needs a hug. Eh, Teo del Fuego?

Sorry this topic bugs you, but I hope you can exemplify the Burning Man ethic of being all-inclusive and welcoming in future posts in reference to me. I'm sorry my masters thesis was beyond you, but it did contribute a unique piece of scholarship to Burning Man studies. And a series of posts today takes care of the not having posted "in ages."

As to religion being like the weather, I'd suggest that some of us are trying to do something about it in moving out of the ghetto of Christianity and demonizing Burning Man and finding the activity of the Spirit there and seeking to find how Christians might learn more about festival, counter-culture, and community through this event. Sounds like some of us are doing at least a little something, so perhaps you could cut us some slack.

[johnwmorehead]

[quote="Apollonaris Zeus"][quote="johnwmorehead"]Thanks for the incoming feedback on my other post topic of Burning Man as a new spiritual outlet.

With this post I'd like folks to feel free to share their impressions of Christianity and Christians, and how this might contrast with their feelings about Burning Man.[/quote]

So what are your opinions of BM and its views of Christianity.

What are your views of Mormonism and BM.[/quote]

Lots of questions with little space for informed answers.

My opinions of Burning Man as it relates to Christianity are spelled out in my masters thesis that can be accessed and downloaded online or requested from me. I believe there are things of value in BM that Christianity has forgotten, such as its countercultural nature, its emphasis on festivity, its sense of strong social connection and community, a spiritual sense of play. As to BM and its views of Christianity this is a somewhat adversarial relationship by and large as BM may be considered part of late modernity and its embrace of pluralism and its eschewing of dogma. This necessitates more careful engagement between BM and Christianity, and I try to do this through my research and writing.

As to Mormonism and BM, I have not researched this. Although I have engaged in Mormon studies and comment on this on my blog, I have not connected the dots to BM.

I hope these brief responses help shed a little light.

[Link]

I am by no means a burningman proselytiser.

The connection between burningman and christianity is that burningman is an environment in which it is more easily concluded that christianity is made of pleasant mental constraints. I enjoy burningman because it encourages me to think. Christianity does not encourage anything but personal application to its perspective. It is a deadend to enlightenment.

[Teo del Fuego]

Christianity is a deadend to enlightenment.

Wow, that was briliant in its clarity and truthfulness.

Johnmorehead: I need a BIG hug in a big way. Sorry for calling your thesis masturbatory. It is, of course, but no more so than what is intrinsic to academic theses. Hegel, Eco, Finnegan's Wake: these things I found difficult to follow as Itrudged through them; your thesis was not difficult to follow.

I am "seeing" a beautiful woman I could so easily marry except for the fact that she is a hardcore Chrisitan (in seminary no less) and I've read and read, and read and thought about things to the point where I cannot in good conscious subscribe to any of the organized relgions. I can tolerate her Christianity, I think, but I cannot tolerate a mind closed off to exploring other cultures, other relgions, other aspects of humanity, such as Burning Man. I so want a woman with whom I can share the incredible things I experience at BM, or backpacking through Nepal, etc.

So, I have a special frustration for Christianity right now.!

[johnwmorehead]

I appreciate your clarifying comments. I tried to make my necessarily academic thesis relevant to the "real world" beyond academia. I also tried to demonstrate the cross-cultural and religious sensitivities that you rightly see lacking in many Christians. So perhaps some of us can paint with a slightly less broad series of brushstrokes where Christianity is concerned.

And as to the comment about Christianity being dead to enlightenment, of course I would disagree. I have found the writings of N.T. Wright particularly helpful in brushing off the accumulated dust of Christendom to find the historical Jesus in his frist century context and how his spiritual pathway and message, a form of enlightenment if you will, is still as relevant and counter-cultural today as it was in the first century. So perhaps the issues some Burners have with Christianity relate to concerns over Western Christian behaviors and attitudes, as well as what Christendom has become, rather than the message and figure of Jesus of Nazareth.

Just a few thoughts. And here's your hug.

[Teo del Fuego]

thanks man..

for what its worth, a while back I gave your thesis props and linked to it in another thread. Very well thought out, researched, and definitely leagues above what I expect others muster when they write, if they write, about two complex subjects.

After Larry cleared up the Business 2.0 thing, I just need something else to rail against!

[Green Wood]

Teo lied! Teo Lied!

He's still her! He's still Here!

[DJmoYst]

i would love to meet every one of you, and you will see a true Christian, not this painted picture of the religions right you label all Christians with.

in reference to the children in 9/11 - - we all have free will, so in effect, others can influence the out come of any situation thought there own free will regardless of the child's choice, hence the value of the second commandment.