art cars are stupid

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:42 pm

in my humble opinion

(imho)

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:43 pm

Luke, I am not your father

You are 1417 months old anyways
geez, when you gonna just CROAK
and what are you doing out in the desert
your skin is looking kind of rough for this SHIT!

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:01 pm

All that said, I am not a "hollerer" or a "blame-caster".

I do not and will hopefully not ever be someone
acting like the worlds freaking traffic cop.

I do not want to and I will not join a "catch a bad guy"
program.

Just saying that speeding in the city is not tolerable, I guess.
And that imho*, anything intolerable to BRCitizens can be overcome by us.

*Hey! I get to use it (imho) that way becasue I have just previously shown the acronym after the phrase! My spelling SUCKS, but my delivery, impeccable. DO NOT think your diction betterer if YOU HAVE ACRONYMED without affection (let he that is without glasses throw the fist)!

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 12:07 pm

[ramble] So, the way I see it, erm... You hate to see people doing, say, 20mph plus. I mean, it's a 'you know it when you see it' thing right? Same thing goes for the (non)art cars. I think most of us know that when we see it or at least we can build in a huge rational margin of error just as in the speeding thing, i.e., we know the limit is 5mph so when we see something that we think is going 20mph+ we know it to be bad. Anyway, as I said before, apply that to the art car thing.

Anyway, it sucks to witness this behavior. It is universally repellent to feel sold out. These people are selling me out. I think they are likely aware on one level or another. So, how much does a denver boot cost? Or, how much labor would it take to manufacture one? The art car, like the DL, is not a right. I say fuckin immobilize the fuckers. No warning. A warning is not a right either. Especially when the offender is clearly pushing past 30mph.

So, like, it's not fucking tough to ride from 10 to 2 or to the trash fence on a serviceable bike. I don't accept that people feel they need cars because the city is too big.[/ramble]

BlueBirdPoof · Post by **BlueBirdPoof** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 12:24 pm

stuart wrote:I don't accept that people feel they need cars because the city is too big.

A walkable neighborhood is considered to be a few blocks, a pedestrian city maybe 1/2 mile by 1/2 mile (1/4 square mile.) The "inhabited" part of BRC alone is 10 plus square miles. If it were a ped city it would have to fit in a space smaller than the circle made by the Esplanade, which leaves no room for the man. I have no idea what the limits on a bicycle city are--they've only been around for a century plus and probably haven't had much effect on city layout anywhere but Asia and Africa. Maybe S. America. I wonder if they tend to exist around railways. . .

You may not accept that people feel they need cars, but if everyone who came to the Black Rock Desert was being a saint, we could just call ourselves Salt Lake City. (At the risk of being found snotty.)

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:44 pm

Wind_Borne · Post by **Wind_Borne** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:00 pm

I'm a bit taken aback by the limited distances some of us are willing to walk or ride. Sure, to some extent the distance one is willing to walk or ride depends on age and ability. But then I see my 76 year old father jump on his bike and ride 20 miles just to get some fresh air. So, come on, any of us able bodied burners who can't handle the short hop across the playa are in sorry shape indeed!

So, while I'm on this rant, let me say that I really enjoy the scale and distances of BRC. I like taking long walks out to the trash fence and listening to the distant hum of BRC, or spending an afternoon visiting playa installations. In a good story the resolution comes after a good amount of effort; if not, then the story is unsatisfying. This narrative principle is called magnitude. BRC has magnitude -- and that is satisfying.

That said, it is possible that other configurations of the city might work. The trick is to provide living space for 30,000 people (not at all a small city) with ready access to a communal play space. One possiblity would be to invert the city -- live in middle and play on the outside. Such a configuration would make it easier to visit other camps, but harder to visit the surrounding playa. Another possibility would be to make a matrix of squares, sort of like old Savannah, with the Man occupying the central and largest square. This layout would make the city compact. But you would loose the great central play area. You would loose the experience of standing by Center Camp, squinting into the night, and saying to your buddy, "Hey is that a huge rubber duck way out there?"

Finally, BRC does not exist to be a model of urban planning. BRC exists to blow our minds. The vastness of the dry lake, the long sight lines, the big sky, yank us out of our urban arrogance, remind us of our punyness, and prepare us for new experiences.

III · Post by **III** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:27 pm

> BRC has magnitude

so does las vegas. i think disneyland does as well, though it's definitely designed as a walking space.

i'm inclined to think that magnitude is good for showing off, while whatever the opposite of that is good for community. coffee shops (that center cafe monstrosity excluded) do not have magnitude. neither do cozy local mom&pop shops. nor does my favorite local dive bar. but they're all great places to meet and interact with people.

this holds true in natural settings as well: yosemite is about as grandiose as a natural place can be. it certainly has magnitude. but the focus of the local community is camp four, which is just a couple of rocks and trees hidden from everything else...

BlueBirdPoof · Post by **BlueBirdPoof** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:52 pm

Wind_Borne wrote: Finally, BRC does not exist to be a model of urban planning.

Agreed. What I'm trying to get at here is the difference between the actual functionality of the city and the stated ideals of the city.

The "magnitude" of the city that you refer to is a desired trait by the planners. It as much as says so on that link I referenced upthread. I would suggest that it in itself is possibly a car/suburb value; feudal lords didn't build castles on hills for views. Certainly, the current layout of the city almost calls for motorized transport. Even apart from whether or not cars can drive during the event, the event depends on cars for its very existence.

I guess that what I'm getting to here is that I think it's possible that art cars serve as a band-aid over the fact that this is not a ped-friendly event. Some e-playans may feel that all participants should be able to cycle the perimeter fence. I question adding a fitness test to the de facto means test for attendence.

If we want to make bicycle riding more common and art cars less common I can think of two things to do. One is to shorten the distances involved. Another is to take some of the mountains of bicycles left over every year, leave them around the playa for anyone's use and designate them in such a way that everyone understands what they are for. I'm sure that irks a lot of people, who think that only minimal services should be provided. So it comes to the tension of making it really easy for people to behave the way we wish them to behave and expecting self-reliance.

We could, of course, ban art cars outright. I think it would lead to an immediate increase in "cheating" with golf carts and other approved staff vehicles, that would be greater than the increase in bicycle riding. Because the underlying "push" to driving would still be there. There would also be other changes in the nature of the event. Would they be bigger changes that altering the layout of the city? We'd have to try both to find out.

What am I advocating? Darned if I know, except perhaps trying to understand the problem in a structural way, rather than a lack of fitness morality.

(On the other hand, the demand for fitness is as American mass cultural as the demand for cars.)

BlueBirdPoof · Post by **BlueBirdPoof** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:04 pm

I would like to shift gears (car reference or bicycle?) here for a moment and talk about a vehicle problem that also exists.

BRC Emergency vehicles (both fire and medical) do have good reasons, at times, to break the 5mph speed limit. We run red and/or amber (yellow) flashing lights. If you see a car, ambulance, fire truck, ect., going fast, flashing lights, honking horns--it might be actual volenteers trying to save participants. It might not be a good time to yell "Dusting!" or complain to the nearest ranger, or stand in front of them or take out thier tires. Give it a little thought. (And I can say that if the volenteers are a pretty dedicated bunch, and we'd be in serious trouble with our department head if we were doing it without reason.) Door seals are a good clue.

And at night--wear lights. We don't always see you as soon as we'd like.

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:14 pm

the current layout of the city almost calls for motorized transport

The city can be a little big on foot, very do-able on a bike (I didn't have a watch, and I wasn't timing myself, but I'm guesstimating that it took me maybe 20-30 minutes to ride from my camp which was on one of end of the city to Sol System which was on the opposite end, this is with my Chai cart which is considerably heavy and has a big as umbrella on it : Not wind resistant.)

the event depends on cars for its very existence.

It also depends on money, something else I don't want to see at the event itself.

One is to shorten the distances involved.

I think there have been some very cool redesign ideas floated around here. Let's do it for no other reason than to do something different.

Another is to take some of the mountains of bicycles left over every year, leave them around the playa for anyone's use and designate them in such a way that everyone understands what they are for. I'm sure that irks a lot of people, who think that only minimal services should be provided.

No, No, Fuck No, No. Consider me irked. How hard is it to pick up a used bike at a garage sale and strap it to your car? As it is, a percentage of participants already feel it's OK to pick up a bike they find and it use for themselves, so maybe this idea is already being practiced.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:01 pm

Ya know Nipples... I'm thinking that if your avatar is pic of an honest to gopod plushie suit you own and wear that NO ONE would decline your request to slow down - especially if you went after them on a bike wearing that thing.

I can't figure out if it's one of the funniest bunny suits I've ever seen or if it's just one of the most wrong costumes ever worn by a human.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:55 pm

I realy liked riding bike and rode in all weather. Didn't know that I would have to give up riding shortly after buying a nice tour bike. Some one want a 1000$ bike for $?$? There have been two five year spans in my life that vision has taken driving away from me. The bottem line is you do not have to have a ride. Be damn greatful you can stand up and walk.

I hope to do some walking at BM04.

Don't know why I wrote this. BUt going to send anyway

Wind_Borne · Post by **Wind_Borne** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:48 pm

We could try on other city plans just for fun, as CG says. Try out a star shape one year. Or two back-to-back arcs forming a huge Burning Man shape. Or seven circular townships in a ring around the playa.

Changing city plans would make the city a little strange and wonderful every year. Some people would really enjoy that. Others would find it uncomfortable. I think it would be cool; but DPW might find such changes costly.

BTW, the quality of magnitude that I was trying to get at earlier is not the same as bigness. For instance a little film like Babette's Feast has great magnitude, and a big film like Matrix: Revolutions has little. One of my best BM experiences of magnitude was a 3:00 AM chat over coffee in Lucky's big tent while snow fell outside (2000). I do, however, like the openess of the playa.

How about a virtual train for transporation? I'm imagining a slow moving string of cars running on big low pressure tires and automatically guided around the playa using GPS. Various safety features could be built in, including perhaps a brakeperson; but the course would be fixed. Hey, I could write the controls... anyone interested in building it?

quiet girl · Post by **quiet girl** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 12:07 pm

Hey all,

I sent an email to the DMV with the ideas here as well as a link to this thread. I'll keep you all posted.

BlueBirdPoof · Post by **BlueBirdPoof** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 4:13 pm

quiet girl wrote: I sent an email to the DMV with the ideas here as well as a link to this thread.

Then I'm very glad I didn't get into any makework "let's install speed bump" proposals!

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 4:18 pm

..."let's install speed bump" proposals!

I knew I'd find use for those cracked-out ravers!

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 4:57 pm

"....avatar is pic of an honest to gopod plushie suit you own and wear" (Badger)

Yes, it is. Everyone on the eplaya uses a true likeness of themselves, do they not?! If you tell me Don Muerto is not real, I am GONNA FREAKING SCREAM. First it was the Easter Bunny, then Santa Claus....

Seriously though, it is me. Check yer email and respond & i'll send something of it & me slightly more or less scary.

You are fine, Mr. Badger! I SAW YOUR CAR in 2002.. but not 2003, by the way (btw). This is just by memory, but is the base a Mopar muscle car from the 70's?

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 5:32 pm

Somehow missed the e-mail nipples. Resend?

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:02 pm

Try your private message (pm).

(Apologies for the personal conversation, people-whom-are-not-Badger...)

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:13 pm

riding with badger
with upon this world he glides
perfumed warm engine

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:16 pm

takes a chilly night
window down heat welcomes you
want to get inside

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:16 pm

I'm not so sure the Badger is a buck{:-()

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:18 pm

perfume dingle balls
steady deep rumbling idle
conversation car

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:19 pm

flipping some odd switch
yes i think we have it here
pop the trunk & check

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:20 pm

I'm not so sure the Badger is a buck{:-()

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:21 pm

see you later then
parting makes me want to come
wait scarf caught in door

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:47 pm

looked like a guy
silver car with rockets on
maybe borrowed ride

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:49 pm

my wildest dream
brain of badger transplanted
beatrice arthur

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:52 pm

tell me please it true
golden girl is not a boy
confused all for not

art cars are stupid

someones child...

Blame Faabrika (sung to "Blame Canada")