A question about how to stop something?

erri2000 · Post by **erri2000** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:01 pm

Hello.

My name is Joey.

I am going to Burning Man for the first time this year. I am going to be with a friendâ€™s camp, (Coup De Coup). I am celebrating the completion of my book. It is called Dump Miner, you can read it at www.dumpminer.com.

When I purchased my ticket I was really surprised to see that this yearâ€™s theme is "Green Man", I thought â€œThatâ€™s kismet, Green Man and Dump Miner, they are complete opposites. This is going to be great.â€

hsdavis · Post by **hsdavis** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:34 pm

Just a thought. Instead of going to Burning Man, you could spend the week at the Gerlach Public Library.

Relax, enjoy the whole experience of Burning Man and let your mind wander.

See you on the playa!

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:35 pm

More power to you and your book and your concerns, but I have seen more than several posts recently from folks who want to make the Playa their place to make a stand on this or that political, social or conspiracist point. It's a free country and the Playa is yours, but I just hope this doesn't become a trend. The last thing I want to do is spend my one week of heaven listening to all the troubling shit I have to sort through the rest of the year.

I know I will get my trousers thoroughly singed for this post, but I wish people could come to the Playa to recharge their creative juices and to totally escape Defaultia. Turn off NPR and the nightly parade of horror and have a mai Tai with me. M'Kay?

We can all be deadly serious the other 51 weeks of the year.

erri2000 · Post by **erri2000** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:15 pm

Please don't misunderstand what I am doing.

I wrote the subject as a grabber.

I am not trying to force any one to conform to my thoughts. I am not looking to preach. I just really love my book. It kicks ass in my opinion, but then again I wrote it. I won't go on any more I am starting to blush.

Seriously, I would just like to hear it read and this sounded like the place where I could make it happen.

Thank you for your time.

No problems, no regrets.
See you in a few weeks. The Mia Tia sounds nice.

Joey

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:05 am

Twenty people doing a reading? Either it will work and be cool, or it will be like herding cats. See what happens. enjoy either result, or just the mai-tais.

(In the Philippines people actually live on the trash dumps and then mine them in the day. If you lived in the Philippines what job do you think you would have?

Well, when I was younger, servicing the fleet no doubt, but now that the bases are closed, I'd say running a half-assed bar for merchant marines and tutoring the bottle trick. Back in the 80s we used to call Subic and Oolongapo, the Sexual Disneylands.

For the respectable girls, the marriage market has dried up with the bases closed. Now they get exported as domestics, if they're lucky.

Kers · Post by **Kers** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:14 am

This sounds like promotion to me.

I don't see this as any different than Barnes & Noble or a publisher trying to get people to push any other book.

I wrote a book too. I just have no plans to flog it at BM.

My $0.02.

Leave your book at home. When you get home get your agent to arrange a book tour where you can read passages to your hearts content.

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:49 am

The site seems to have the entire book (I didn't read all of it but it looks like it is there) that you can read for free, and he wants to give it away at the burn. You can buy his book from the site as well, but considering he's giving away all of the content I personally consider it a gift more than promotion (which it is as well, but what isn't?).

Kers · Post by **Kers** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:27 am

So, by that definition if Coke comes and gives away cans of coke for free, that's cool with you?

He has a product. He is attempting to use BM to promote the product.

What isn't a promotion? Giving gifts to people with those gifts having no underlying purpose other than being a gift - with no hint of self or corporate promotion!

But I respect your view that it is ok for him to promote.

misfit · Post by **misfit** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:35 am

>>>>This sounds like promotion to me.
I don't see this as any different than Barnes & Noble or a publisher trying to get people to push any other book.<<<<

really.?... i serve up, and pass out bacon and sausage. am i promoting pig farming.... some folks are turning into promotion nazis. relax, enjoy the burn..........

Kers · Post by **Kers** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:42 am

What a dumb analogy.

But I'll respond anyway.
If you tell people that the Bacon & Sausage is courtesy of Jimmy Dean . . . then yes you are promoting something.

To make it a more accurate analogy, this guy IS Jimmy Dean and IS promoting his products.

Some people aren't taking the slow but sure infiltration of promotion (and SELF-promotion) seriously enough.

Kers · Post by **Kers** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:45 am

By the way "erri2000" has a grand total of 5 posts on ePlaya. 3 are directly related to the promotion of his work and 2 are about selling tickets.

More than that his posts to "have to sell his ticket" (and the completion of that transaction) predate his posting of solicitation for whether or not he should promote his work.

You be the judge.

erri2000 · Post by **erri2000** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:58 am

[quote="Kers"]By the way "erri2000" has a grand total of 5 posts on ePlaya. 3 are directly related to the promotion of his work and 2 are about selling tickets.[/quote] You really have a hair up your butt about me don't you?

[quote="Kers"]
More than that his posts to "have to sell his ticket" (and the completion of that transaction) predate his posting of solicitation for whether or not he should promote his work.[/quote]
We had some people that couldn't go. You have a problem with that or was I supposed to let them eat the ticket cost?

[/quote]You be the judge.[/quote]
Who are you to judge anyone?

From a earlier
[quote="Kers"]So, by that definition if Coke comes and gives away cans of coke for free, that's cool with you?[/quote]

Your logic is flawed. I am not trying to force any of my corporate "swill" down your throat, if anything it seems like there are some that are trying to control me. I am doing this at my camp. I paid for my ticket. I read the â€œrulesâ€

misfit · Post by **misfit** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:02 am

>>>>You be the judge.<<<<

OK,,, you kind'a hurt my feelings, calling my analogy dumb. my point is to have fun, not to worry about who or what.

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:06 am

Kers wrote:So, by that definition if Coke comes and gives away cans of coke for free, that's cool with you?

He has a product. He is attempting to use BM to promote the product.

What isn't a promotion? Giving gifts to people with those gifts having no underlying purpose other than being a gift - with no hint of self or corporate promotion!

But I respect your view that it is ok for him to promote.

Your logic if flawed. Coke would not continue to give out free cokes after the event...

Badger

Kers · Post by **Kers** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:09 am

Who am I to judge you.
I am me and I am part of the community.

Who are you? Someone who has never gone before, yet seems to want to use this board and this event to promote not only your ideas, but your work and yourself.

My Logic is not flawed. I have a hair up my butt about people like you - those who have never been; don't understand the event and want to make it into a place to self promote or get on a bully pulpit.

There is no promotion allowed at the event. You are attempting to use the event for promotion. Don't paint it in terms of "green this" or "green that" That's the same argument all the renewable energy companies are using and causing such an uproar.

And here is a quote form YOUR post:
"Financial responsibility has forced me to sell my ticket to Burning Man 2007."

Not "I a have a friend with an extra ticket" - So don't BS me.

capjbadger · Post by **capjbadger** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:27 am

Kers wrote:Who am I to judge you.
I am me and I am part of the community.

Which means what exactly?? Get off your self righteous high horse and just go and enjoy the event that you paid for, you "burnier than thou" consumer.

Badger

erri2000 · Post by **erri2000** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:13 pm

[quote="Kers"][u]
Who are you?
[/u][/quote]

I guess you will never know.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:58 pm

I am not trying to force any one to conform to my thoughts. I am not looking to preach. I just really love my book. It kicks ass in my opinion, but then again I wrote it. I won't go on any more I am starting to blush.

This whole idea just sounds more about self-promotion than anything else. I think I'd rather see 20 people sitting down and having Garrett Hardin's The Tragedy of the Commons read to them.

misfit · Post by **misfit** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:09 pm

>>>I think I'd rather see 20 people sitting down and having Garrett Hardin's The Tragedy of the Commons read to them.<<<

or 30 people watching the DVD of "300". looks like an awsome flick....

erri2000 · Post by **erri2000** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:12 pm

[quote="Badger"][quote]I am not trying to force any one to conform to my thoughts. I am not looking to preach. I just really love my book. It kicks ass in my opinion, but then again I wrote it. I won't go on any more I am starting to blush. [/quote]

This whole idea just sounds more about self-promotion than anything else. I think I'd rather see 20 people sitting down and having Garrett Hardin's [i]The Tragedy of the Commons[/i] read to them.[/quote]

I have requested that the moderator remove my posts.

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:40 pm

MikeVDS wrote:The site seems to have the entire book (I didn't read all of it but it looks like it is there) that you can read for free, and he wants to give it away at the burn. You can buy his book from the site as well, but considering he's giving away all of the content I personally consider it a gift more than promotion (which it is as well, but what isn't?).

Good gift too.. I am enjoying the read right now.

Kers wrote:So, by that definition if Coke comes and gives away cans of coke for free, that's cool with you?

Bad analogy.. A better one would be to compare it to my Learn to Weld thread. Alot of the stuff/links in there teaching one to weld for FREE are hosted by welding companies. And of course anything I have ever typed here about what I know about metalworking have come from working for someone somewhere. No need to pick nits.. The OP came to gift his work and look for folks to share their passion for reading. Their experiance is their own to have. Like they said.. turn 180 and move on.

misfit wrote:i serve up, and pass out bacon and sausage. am i promoting pig farming.... some folks are turning into promotion nazis. relax, enjoy the burn..........

Yes you are you pig murderer! The theme is GREEN.. serve soylent green.

Kers wrote:By the way "erri2000" has a grand total of 5 posts on ePlaya. 3 are directly related to the promotion of his work and 2 are about selling tickets.

And you less than 20. Whats wrong with having to sell your tickets? Not everyone has a Gringotts vault around here.

erri2000 wrote:I have requested that the moderator remove my posts.

I would like to request that they DON'T! There is no such thing as a "perfect" community where everyone will share identical views. Some will support you others will flame. Welcome to eplaya.. choose your words carefully here if you're faint of heart.

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:57 pm

So, by that definition if Coke comes and gives away cans of coke for free, that's cool with you?

Yep Kers, your logic is flawed and it is you with the bad analogy. If coke always gave away their product for free and had free dispensers at any internet outlet, and just sold cans if you wanted the nice packaging, then it'd be the same. If his webpage did not give away his work, I'd say that might be advertising, but you do not have to pay anything to reap the benefits of his hard work.

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:09 pm

3 are directly related to the promotion of his work

Lots of people come on here promoting the things they've worked hard to share with the community. Is he asking any money for it? No. If you want to have a copy, can you get one for free? Yes. If you want a paper copy, can you print your own? Yes. Any project we put our names on is self promoting, other people take their art around the world to display it. Anyone who is creating something creative and sharing it, is technically advertising and promoting. Should we all wear uniforms that cover our whole bodies so no one can identify us in case they may one day want to buy something from us? If you make or sell artistic creations off playa you're advertising yourself and your work on playa, but how do you avoid that?

Post by **trilobyte** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:46 pm

As I see it, Joey's an artist who's going to Burning Man. Instead of welding, painting, sculpting, spinning records, or doing a high-wire act, Joey's art involves words.

If someone wants to bring their art to the playa, and share it with people freely, HELL YEAH! If they want to post about it on the e-playa boards and see if they can get some support to help them with a performance, I see nothing wrong with that. More power to 'em!

Does it matter if there are political overtones? Environmental overtones? Social overtones? Fuck if I know - it'd hardly be the first or the only piece of art out there that didn't.

If I had to throw any criticism of the original poster out there, I'd say Joey's thread title was probably inaccurate. It's hype - lots of artists and camps are guilty of sensationalizing their thread titles.

Good luck with the project, and getting all your stuff together for the playa!

~Trilo~

Post by **actiongrl** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:49 pm

brian doherty did readings from "this is burning man" at the base of the man in a huge dust storm

this is relevant to the theme, he's not selling books at the event he's sharing information, which wants to be free. would you forbid a band from performing a song at the event if they happen to also sell an album off site with the song on it, as long as they were not promoting the album at BRC?

let's breathe folks

Post by **trilobyte** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:50 pm

Another thing I just realized... this should be on the Art & Performance board. I'll move the thread there now.

~Trilo~

scootert · Post by **scootert** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:10 pm

[quote="Teo del Fuego"]

I know I will get my trousers thoroughly singed for this post, but I wish people could come to the Playa to recharge their creative juices and to totally escape Defaultia. Turn off NPR and the nightly parade of horror and have a mai Tai with me. M'Kay?

We can all be deadly serious the other 51 weeks of the year.[/quote]

My sentiments exactly! I'm a news and politics junkie and I follow the "parade of horror" very closely in the default world. At BRC, I want to be on vacation from that. But that's just me, and everybody should do and say whatever they want, I guess. Singe my trousers also (you've got a way with words, Teo), and we'll douse them with more Mai Tais.

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:27 pm

Kers wrote:This sounds like promotion to me.

I don't see this as any different than Barnes & Noble or a publisher trying to get people to push any other book.

What about this? Is this commercial promotion?

Kers wrote:Twilight got back to me with this:

http://www.brccommercialairlineventurel ... cials.html
Itâ€™s our third year of flying out there, and itâ€™s a real rock star entrance!

Disclosure: I am NOT associated with them in any biz dealings. But I know Twilight, and I am camping with him. I am also coming out early to help build the Airport.
See you on the playa!

Just noticed it and thought I would add it. Since your camp gets to run a for profit airline you really shouldn't be pickin nits about ANYTHING about promotion or commerce. Do you see a difference between giving away written work for free on a website and asking folks to read with them and posting a link to something that brings commerce right into the heart of BM. Granted this venture is ORG blessed and they are all great folks. Just wanted to show an example of how the line between commerce and community tends to get blurry at times.

nevadadrifter · Post by **nevadadrifter** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:14 pm

Toolmaker wrote: Not everyone has a Gringotts vault around here.

And those who do are promoting forced goblin labor.

EB · Post by EB » Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:14 am

[quote="erri2000"]Instead of calling it the â€œGreen Manâ€