2008 "American Dream" theme
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Bob
- Posts: 6747
- Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:00 am
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- Camp Name: Royaneh
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Moholy-Nagy became a US citizen in 1939 after he founded the Chicago School of Design.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/
"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
I am far from being as articulate with my thoughts as many of you. My opinion seems to be easily swayed as I can internalize many of the issues. While I love my home and am thankful every day for the ability to seek my dreams I am also disheartened by the way most corporations treat people. My grandparents came to this country with hope because they didn't have the opportunities to care for their families like they wanted to. But even then Americans had to rebel and form Unions in order to get the big Corporations to treat them fairly. Have we really come that far since then? I don't think so. I still think the this country provides incredible opportunities and freedoms that many countries do not. Freedoms that allow people to express themselves at things like Burning Man. The fight to maintain those freedoms is what the American Dream means to me.
As much as I feel people will find just about anything to bitch about, I tend to agree that the "American Dream" may alienate many. But hey, its a theme, if you don't like it have another drink and be thankful you can dance under the stars naked if you want.
Burn ON
As much as I feel people will find just about anything to bitch about, I tend to agree that the "American Dream" may alienate many. But hey, its a theme, if you don't like it have another drink and be thankful you can dance under the stars naked if you want.
Burn ON
Analytically fun and spontaneous
With Liberty And Justice For All With A Good Lawyer
forget the high-rise. they should build the man on a mcmansion. i'd love to see that sucker burn! seems to me a mcmansion is much more in line with the american dream than a high-rise.
has larry been smoking too much of something? not likely. but the theme is kind of lame. i suggest it has more to do with larry aging and the predictable outcome of an organization that hasn't suffered a leadership shakeup in many, many years.
still, we can really run with this idea. my suggestion is that the event be held at the pyramid lake indian reservation. we'll simply show up and kick them out. though we will be kind enough to create a seperate place for a few of them to remain.
oh yeah....this theme is ripe for opening up one big can of cynical worms....
yeehaw!
that's just what i want to put a lot of time and effort into doing - going off to a political symposium that used to be an art festival!
as for all the teary-eyed folks talking of how great the american dream truly is.....well, of course you'd think that. but the reality is that every good thing the 'american dream' is supposed to be is really just the same stuff humanity has been dreaming of for many centuries. liberty, wealth, safety...
here's another suggestion: in keeping with the theme, an effort should be made to petition the organization for a change of theme name. if it works, the theme will be validated. if it doesn't work, it will highlight the very thing that limits, if not kills, the 'american dream'. that is, an entrenched and insular leadership that, upon embarking upon an unpopular policy, steadfastly refuses to change course.
there will always be people who bitch about the themes. but at least the others themes were generalized. vault of heaven wasn't about heaven - it was about 'the heavens' - you know...space. and notice that 'beyond belief' wasn't called 'the promise of jesus'.
finally, the people i know who truly believe in 'american' ideals, like liberty and the idea that all peeps are created equal, don't think of these as 'american' ideals that only america can bring to the world. history tells us the specific ideas that were tried in america began in europe.
one final suggestion: this year perimeter security should be sparse so that many of our much poorer neighbors (who are, in fact, americans) that want to attend can sneak in. should they not also be allowed to enjoy the theme? is it their fault they can't get in any other way?
let your cynic flag fly!
has larry been smoking too much of something? not likely. but the theme is kind of lame. i suggest it has more to do with larry aging and the predictable outcome of an organization that hasn't suffered a leadership shakeup in many, many years.
still, we can really run with this idea. my suggestion is that the event be held at the pyramid lake indian reservation. we'll simply show up and kick them out. though we will be kind enough to create a seperate place for a few of them to remain.
oh yeah....this theme is ripe for opening up one big can of cynical worms....
yeehaw!
that's just what i want to put a lot of time and effort into doing - going off to a political symposium that used to be an art festival!
as for all the teary-eyed folks talking of how great the american dream truly is.....well, of course you'd think that. but the reality is that every good thing the 'american dream' is supposed to be is really just the same stuff humanity has been dreaming of for many centuries. liberty, wealth, safety...
here's another suggestion: in keeping with the theme, an effort should be made to petition the organization for a change of theme name. if it works, the theme will be validated. if it doesn't work, it will highlight the very thing that limits, if not kills, the 'american dream'. that is, an entrenched and insular leadership that, upon embarking upon an unpopular policy, steadfastly refuses to change course.
there will always be people who bitch about the themes. but at least the others themes were generalized. vault of heaven wasn't about heaven - it was about 'the heavens' - you know...space. and notice that 'beyond belief' wasn't called 'the promise of jesus'.
finally, the people i know who truly believe in 'american' ideals, like liberty and the idea that all peeps are created equal, don't think of these as 'american' ideals that only america can bring to the world. history tells us the specific ideas that were tried in america began in europe.
one final suggestion: this year perimeter security should be sparse so that many of our much poorer neighbors (who are, in fact, americans) that want to attend can sneak in. should they not also be allowed to enjoy the theme? is it their fault they can't get in any other way?
let your cynic flag fly!
Overall I'm disappointed by the theme, but I don't think it's absolutely horrible. I think if one takes this portion of the description ...
Ask yourself, instead, a more immediate question. What has America achieved that you admire or feel proud of? What has it done or failed to do that makes you feel dismayed? Put blame aside, in this election year, and dare to ask an even greater question: What can postmodern America, this stumbling, roused, half-conscious giant, yet give to the world?
... and runs with it we might get some interesting art.
My main objection to the theme is that it seems to be too specific. I thought the artwork this year didn't have the flair and originality that the artwork of 2006 (my first year), Hope and Fear theme had. I blame this on the Green Man theme and it's environmental focus. It almost seemed that artists were trying to make their work fit into a specific box rather than letting the theme be a departure point for their creativity. Also when I look back at the art from previous years and the themes that inspired it I think there was more room for interpretation and invention.
I hope that I'm wrong and that a majority of the artists who contribute this year blow me away with their ideas and their work. I'm not very optimistic that this will be the case, but I do believe it could happen.
Ask yourself, instead, a more immediate question. What has America achieved that you admire or feel proud of? What has it done or failed to do that makes you feel dismayed? Put blame aside, in this election year, and dare to ask an even greater question: What can postmodern America, this stumbling, roused, half-conscious giant, yet give to the world?
... and runs with it we might get some interesting art.
My main objection to the theme is that it seems to be too specific. I thought the artwork this year didn't have the flair and originality that the artwork of 2006 (my first year), Hope and Fear theme had. I blame this on the Green Man theme and it's environmental focus. It almost seemed that artists were trying to make their work fit into a specific box rather than letting the theme be a departure point for their creativity. Also when I look back at the art from previous years and the themes that inspired it I think there was more room for interpretation and invention.
I hope that I'm wrong and that a majority of the artists who contribute this year blow me away with their ideas and their work. I'm not very optimistic that this will be the case, but I do believe it could happen.
Immature beyond my years
The theme doesn't specify which American Dream.
America is defined by our dreams and by our myths. Not by the specific dreams or myths that we carry, but at a meta level by the ability to have a dream and to then act on that dream.
America is the only country in the world whose cultural identity comes from a dynamic and iterative process of dreaming and myth formation.
This leads to a lot of negative things, and it allows us to ignore reality when it conflicts with our dreams, but it also provides us with amazing tools.
What other country is founded on 'dreams?' Not _a_ dream, but on the process of creating dreams?
We, as burners from whatever nation or transnational republic, own the dream machine!
America is the only country in the world whose cultural identity comes from a dynamic and iterative process of dreaming and myth formation.
This leads to a lot of negative things, and it allows us to ignore reality when it conflicts with our dreams, but it also provides us with amazing tools.
What other country is founded on 'dreams?' Not _a_ dream, but on the process of creating dreams?
We, as burners from whatever nation or transnational republic, own the dream machine!
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Teo del Fuego
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Wow, Bob, you are just so incredibly intelligent, and we are all so lucky that you deign to grace ePlaya with your insights. Clearly, with only a mere 2600 posts, you have so much else going on in your life that we all must thank you for taking the time out to step down to our level. I mean, you know Larry Harvey personally, you have the massive Oxford Concise Dictionary, and you know how to use Google. You are the Man. Thank you so much for putting up with the rest of us who are so clearly beneath you.Bob wrote:Moholy-Nagy became a US citizen in 1939 after he founded the Chicago School of Design.
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Bob
- Posts: 6747
- Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:00 am
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I was responding to theCryptofishist. But please do go on, if you think it adds to the thread.Teo del Fuego wrote:Wow, Bob, you are just so incredibly intelligent, and we are all so lucky that you deign to grace ePlaya with your insights. Clearly, with only a mere 2600 posts, you have so much else going on in your life that we all must thank you for taking the time out to step down to our level. I mean, you know Larry Harvey personally, you have the massive Oxford Concise Dictionary, and you know how to use Google. You are the Man. Thank you so much for putting up with the rest of us who are so clearly beneath you.Bob wrote:Moholy-Nagy became a US citizen in 1939 after he founded the Chicago School of Design.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/
"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam
I HATE this idea for a theme, I can't understand why it's the American Dream, why not the Global Dream, or World Dream something more abstract and open. To me the idea of The American Dream is arrogant and too American Centric of an idea, I feel Burningman is a Global event that happens to take place in the US. Also each year I see more and more people from foreign countries.
Please, Please, Please change this theme name, and idea.
Please, Please, Please change this theme name, and idea.
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chiefdanfox
- Posts: 786
- Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:14 pm
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- Location: Bodega Bay, CA
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Teo del Fuego
- Posts: 1391
- Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:31 am
- Burning Since: 2005
Actually, Bob, you, with the vast majority of your posts, were responding to your own damaged ego. Take a few hours and read objectively your posts from the past few days and I think you will find your tone to be way over the top in terms of condescension and arrogance. Maybe that's just your schtick, or maybe you're just a schmuck. But please, go on, if it makes you feel better about yourself. You are not one ounce better or superior to anyone else who posts here and if you've convinced yourself otherwise, then well, you are a sad case indeed.Bob wrote:I was responding to theCryptofishist. But please do go on, if you think it adds to the thread.
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kikidelosfeliz
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:05 pm
- Location: hollywood/losfeliz
Double Rainbow
I agree with TPG - no matter if there was a sea change this year, more corporate camps with assistants running back to civilization for more caviar, and the green exhibits had no sense of humor or irony. We nonetheless had an amazing time.
And Nature regaled us with all her best, dust storms to rock our afternoons, that amazing double (some claimed triple) rainbow, a full eclipse, a meteor shower, what a show!
The things that made my burn were individual and random, not anything provided by the borg. A person playing beautifully on a baby grand piano in the middle of the desert, and a guy happening along with a sax, the help offered by our extended campmates when our generator failed, getting accosted on the Esplanade by a man-sized robot with a dirty mind, my boyfriend and I laughing so hard we fell over at the very intersection where we first met, a camp with the balls to build a gigantic waterslide (quickly taken down by BLM), meeting people from all over the world. Although I have to say that Crude Awakening was pretty spectacular.
I cringed when I read the new theme. What narcissistic crap. But as is often the case on the playa, take what you like and leave the rest.
I vote for shortening it to just "the Dream".
And Nature regaled us with all her best, dust storms to rock our afternoons, that amazing double (some claimed triple) rainbow, a full eclipse, a meteor shower, what a show!
The things that made my burn were individual and random, not anything provided by the borg. A person playing beautifully on a baby grand piano in the middle of the desert, and a guy happening along with a sax, the help offered by our extended campmates when our generator failed, getting accosted on the Esplanade by a man-sized robot with a dirty mind, my boyfriend and I laughing so hard we fell over at the very intersection where we first met, a camp with the balls to build a gigantic waterslide (quickly taken down by BLM), meeting people from all over the world. Although I have to say that Crude Awakening was pretty spectacular.
I cringed when I read the new theme. What narcissistic crap. But as is often the case on the playa, take what you like and leave the rest.
I vote for shortening it to just "the Dream".
cognitive dissident
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chiefdanfox
- Posts: 786
- Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:14 pm
- Burning Since: 1986
- Location: Bodega Bay, CA
American dream is dead
Ya, I say every burner needs to burn every single red and white stripe sign, banner, symbol, or anyhting that resembles the imperial American dream; which is, The one with the most toys wins.
I think the BM organizers are getting threatened and to appease the fascists they were forced into this shit.
Where do I vote in the polls?
I think the BM organizers are getting threatened and to appease the fascists they were forced into this shit.
Where do I vote in the polls?
Burningman is the superbowl of turning points to get to a sustainable camp permanently
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godzero
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:04 am
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- Camp Name: AEZ
- Location: San Jose, CA
This is a joke, right? They're just messing with us to see if we're awake. I would be hard-pressed to think of a more inappropriate theme than this. It's worse than the "lame, lame, lame" offered as the least approving vote (which I selected); perhaps "sick", "disgusting", "offensive" or "revolting" would be better options.
I'll find to hard to attend next year - I'd hate not going to a Burn, been every year since my first, but maybe this is one to miss.
metta
I'll find to hard to attend next year - I'd hate not going to a Burn, been every year since my first, but maybe this is one to miss.
metta
"The most ancient book of wisdom in the world makes clear that hell is yourself in the absence of love."
disgusting?
godzero: what is inappropriate about this theme? I don't think you've made an argument in support of your statement...
How brilliant of "The Hat" to choose this theme which is so very politically incorrect among many participants. It is the opposite of the politically correct commercialism of "the Green Man".
I don't get the argument that the theme is in any way exclusionary of international burners - no more so than any "theme" - the politicizing of it is up to the person interpreting what it means.
I have already begun dusting off my old "change it or lose it" bumper stickers, SDS buttons, etc.....
I don't get the argument that the theme is in any way exclusionary of international burners - no more so than any "theme" - the politicizing of it is up to the person interpreting what it means.
I have already begun dusting off my old "change it or lose it" bumper stickers, SDS buttons, etc.....
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tomaso de la playa
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:11 pm
- Location: Florida
Dreams of Humanity
OK, so I sat back after viewing next years theme ...and took a deep breath and really really attempted to look at this objectively. No Bi-part, no red, no blue, togetherness, impartiality, what makes me proud to live in this land, what is the best we can offer the world as a way in culture, leadership, fairness, govt sponsorship, the right road, ...ad nausea.....
With all the great themes you may have had in your ideas bucket, my only thought is ARE YOU ON CRACK?
Here are a few suggestions to go along with your idea Next Years Theme- "The American Dream":
Put George Bushes head on the man
Make the Temple out of trillions upon trillions of fake dollar bills with Larry's face on them and stamp them "In Corporate America We Trust" (to represent our National Debt)
Sell Coke at Center Camp $5.00 a can.
Have FORD sponsor all the Art Cars
Perhaps a visit from Dick Cheney might be in order- he could be given his own art car driven around by Danger Ranger.
A multi-media pavilion showing countries we've ruined, societies in decimation that we've ignored because they aren't on our favorite countrie$ list.
I think one of our Drug Companies and HMO's - pick one - go ahead, could give us a rousing sound byte expounding how we should import our America Health Care system around the world!
We should have Disney filter all the Art Projects so that our American Dream fits in just right with the theme.
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I can only come up with one picture of the playa for next year, We could pretend it is a clear cut old growth forest, put up some DO NOT ENTER SIGNS- Gated Community. Charge $10,000.00 a ticket. Have an elitist Air conditioned, Dome covering Center Camp that is lushly designed by some firm that will charge $500.00/SQ Ft, only those on an approved list can get in. Lets have Sony give us wall to wall giant screen TVs to pipe in scenes from the past burns -when we were supposedly counter culture, to drink top shelf liquor and eat catered food, served by underpaid over worked migrants.
Maybe we can have some investment Firms have some easy listening music theme camps, they can give seminars on how you all can invest the money made from ever increasing ticket prices- $10K sounds like a lot for a ticket, but hey, that's what some American Dream candidates charge for their parties- why not you?
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Where I can see we need a lot of healing done in this world, and America once did have the potential to lead the way, can you honestly think your idea holds anything but a perverse sarcastic fantasy -given our present Zeitgeist?
Please, please PLEASE reconsider.
++++++++++++++++++++++
By the way, just so you know, I am American Born, I want to live here, I am a hard working Middle Class Family man, Republican (gasp) that doesn't think we are headed in the right direction at all.
I'd rather see us inclusive and joining in a theme of Dreams of Humanity
With all the great themes you may have had in your ideas bucket, my only thought is ARE YOU ON CRACK?
Here are a few suggestions to go along with your idea Next Years Theme- "The American Dream":
Put George Bushes head on the man
Make the Temple out of trillions upon trillions of fake dollar bills with Larry's face on them and stamp them "In Corporate America We Trust" (to represent our National Debt)
Sell Coke at Center Camp $5.00 a can.
Have FORD sponsor all the Art Cars
Perhaps a visit from Dick Cheney might be in order- he could be given his own art car driven around by Danger Ranger.
A multi-media pavilion showing countries we've ruined, societies in decimation that we've ignored because they aren't on our favorite countrie$ list.
I think one of our Drug Companies and HMO's - pick one - go ahead, could give us a rousing sound byte expounding how we should import our America Health Care system around the world!
We should have Disney filter all the Art Projects so that our American Dream fits in just right with the theme.
-------------------
I can only come up with one picture of the playa for next year, We could pretend it is a clear cut old growth forest, put up some DO NOT ENTER SIGNS- Gated Community. Charge $10,000.00 a ticket. Have an elitist Air conditioned, Dome covering Center Camp that is lushly designed by some firm that will charge $500.00/SQ Ft, only those on an approved list can get in. Lets have Sony give us wall to wall giant screen TVs to pipe in scenes from the past burns -when we were supposedly counter culture, to drink top shelf liquor and eat catered food, served by underpaid over worked migrants.
Maybe we can have some investment Firms have some easy listening music theme camps, they can give seminars on how you all can invest the money made from ever increasing ticket prices- $10K sounds like a lot for a ticket, but hey, that's what some American Dream candidates charge for their parties- why not you?
========================
Where I can see we need a lot of healing done in this world, and America once did have the potential to lead the way, can you honestly think your idea holds anything but a perverse sarcastic fantasy -given our present Zeitgeist?
Please, please PLEASE reconsider.
++++++++++++++++++++++
By the way, just so you know, I am American Born, I want to live here, I am a hard working Middle Class Family man, Republican (gasp) that doesn't think we are headed in the right direction at all.
I'd rather see us inclusive and joining in a theme of Dreams of Humanity
WOW. after coming back to the default world from my virgin burn (and what a burn it was) i have had nothing on my mind except how much I can't wait to go back next year. The unbelieveably fantastic experiences I had would continue next year right? well untill I saw the theme of next year only a few hours ago. What are they thinking. I don't know if I can handle supporting a theme like this. I know many have a dream of what life and their goals could be but how could they be so closeminded as to label that the "american" dream and bring our sorry ass political state into play here on the playa, I don't want that crap on the playa, the playa is about love and giving not commercialism or america. I am vastly dissappointed and have lost much of my will to return to the community next year. I can only hope this them will change.
WOW. after coming back to the default world from my virgin burn (and what a burn it was) i have had nothing on my mind except how much I can't wait to go back next year. The unbelieveably fantastic experiences I had would continue next year right? well untill I saw the theme of next year only a few hours ago. What are they thinking. I don't know if I can handle supporting a theme like this. I know many have a dream of what life and their goals could be but how could they be so closeminded as to label that the "american" dream and bring our sorry ass political state into play here on the playa, I don't want that crap on the playa, the playa is about love and giving not commercialism or america. I am vastly dissappointed and have lost much of my will to return to the community next year. I can only hope this them will change.
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kikidelosfeliz
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:05 pm
- Location: hollywood/losfeliz
Department of Disinformation?
Is it possible that this is a hack? A stunt by the DOD? If so, it's f**king brilliant, and I applaud.
If not, if they are really serious about this, I'm thinking of some camps like "Forty Acres and a Mule" Camp, or Camp Manzanar, or since I'm part Native American, Camp Wounded Knee (fire water, casinos, and a big half-buried heart).
If not, if they are really serious about this, I'm thinking of some camps like "Forty Acres and a Mule" Camp, or Camp Manzanar, or since I'm part Native American, Camp Wounded Knee (fire water, casinos, and a big half-buried heart).
cognitive dissident
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godzero
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:04 am
- Burning Since: 2002
- Camp Name: AEZ
- Location: San Jose, CA
Re: disgusting?
Rich: thanks for your response.Rich wrote:godzero: what is inappropriate about this theme? I don't think you've made an argument in support of your statement...
It's just my *opinion* and doesn't really need an argument in support of it. (But that would be a cop-out.)
As a European, partly raised in Africa and now living in the USA, I tend to see things a little differently than a lot of Americans. I find most (not just American) patriotic or nationalist themes/feelings/agenda, however well intended, unhelpful when trying to live on this planet. Such attitudes often engender blinkered views leading to self-obsession and selfish and/or dangerous behavior which can be detrimental to all. Surely we don't want that on the playa?
As for the USA, there are many instances where the "patriotic" seems absurd, idiotic or maudlin (sing with hand on heart... aaaah) to an outsider. For example: the national anthem at a ball game (no other countries involved, so wtf?); people babbling on about apple pie (in this forum too!) like it's American (it came from Europe), the oath of allegiance in the classroom which is quasi-Maoist indoctrination - very UN-American.
I love living here for many reasons, despite the above gripes, and I am fortunate enough to enjoy a wonderful circle of friends who aren't hampered by USA-centric minds. Many of these people are long-time Burners who are quite puzzled by the choice of theme as it seems antithetical to the openness and inclusiveness associated with BM.
If I do go next year, it will be with a strong "Global Dream" theme - or something akin to that - as a counter to the narrowness of the official one.
metta
"The most ancient book of wisdom in the world makes clear that hell is yourself in the absence of love."
Unfortunately that symbolism is extra super offensive to me, a New Zealander. I know, in addition to making this year's theme totally America-centric, let's crush a skyscraper of international flags with the American Dream Man, and then let's burn it to the ground! Can you get more symbolic than that? Who wants to celebrate that?ZaphodBurner wrote:That's cool, and I appreciate the constructive tone with which you offered your opinion, but I wonder if you've read the actual statement yet:Xhile wrote: Sorry, but I guess the only way to make any progress is to be honest, and that's how I feel. Very disappointed.
"Ranging from Canada to Chad, from Brazil to Burundi, from Vatican City to the Republic of China, these 244 symbols will shine in the night, gleaming like cut gems upon the surface of a jewel box. The United States of America will be among them. Each country can be said to represent a dream no less radiant or precious than the rest. Each nation may be viewed as a container of identity; yet each one can be said to be a glimmering illusion, an arbitrary entity defined by boundaries on a map."
Does that modify or reenforce your opinion?
Personally, I don't think it's great but it's not something to get wound up about like some seem to be. Psyche didn't inspire me much and I heard people bitch about Vault of Heaven, too.
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Teo del Fuego
- Posts: 1391
- Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:31 am
- Burning Since: 2005
godzero:
we both agree that the theme is totally inappropriate and is further evidence that Larry Harvey has lost the plot and should just retire.
BUT, no, it is not Maoist to recite the pledge of allegiance, nor is it whack to sing the national anthem at ball games, and no one said Apple Pie or "mom" originated in America. But these things are fairly close to my heart having be born and raised here in America. Try to be a bit more understanding of your host country's culture, m'kay?
we both agree that the theme is totally inappropriate and is further evidence that Larry Harvey has lost the plot and should just retire.
BUT, no, it is not Maoist to recite the pledge of allegiance, nor is it whack to sing the national anthem at ball games, and no one said Apple Pie or "mom" originated in America. But these things are fairly close to my heart having be born and raised here in America. Try to be a bit more understanding of your host country's culture, m'kay?
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CaptainObvious
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:54 pm
Call me clueless and bereft of any concept of what Burning Man is about... My INITIAL reaction was
"Has the Harvster lost his fucking mind!?!?!"
Burning every country's flag, "American Dream", etc... What a polarizing bullshit idea for a theme...
Tick, tock, tick, tock...
Green Man - a fairly straight forward theme managed to polarize and not just because of the corporate pavillion.. People were getting downright shitty with one another here and there... Dude.. it's Green Man... chill the fuck out...
Burning the flags of all nations... hmm.. could one see that as symbolic of the disolution of borders and yelling out loud - "Welcome to the HUMAN race!!" Flags are what ARMIES rally behind... I enjoyed reading the comments from our friend from down under, but I dare to ask the question - are you proud of your flag, country, or culture? I can guaran-fucking-tee that if we were to ask some of the displaced indigenous peoples of EVERY FUCKING NATION ON EARTH what they thought of their "COUNTRY" they could really give two shits. Ask them about their culture and you'll be able to be mesmerized for hours.... Fuck borders and flags and countries - let's hear it for PEOPLE and CULTURE. Everyone of us is a "citizen" of BRC for a week of the year and many of us are at odds with our COUNTRY, but we are embracing the CULTURE of Burning Man... or so I'd like to think...
Then I started to have music float around in my head... you see, as is obvious, it is pretty vacant in there... David Bowie popped in at first...
A little piece of you
The little peace in me
Will die
For this is not america
Blossom falls to bloom
This season
Promise not to stare
Too long
For this is not a miracle
There was a time
A storm that blew so pure
For this could be the biggest sky
And I could have
The faintest idea
And then he hit me with a sucker punch... BASTARD!!
Johnnys in america, low-techs at the
Wheel
No-one needs anyone, they dont even
Just pretend
Johnnys in america
Johnny wants a brain, johnny wants to
Suck on a coke
Johnny wants a woman, johnny wants
To think of a joke
Johnnys in america
Johnnys in america, johnny looks up at
The stars
Johnny combs his hair and johnny
Wants pussy and cars
Johnnys in america
Im afraid of americans
Im afraid of the world
Im afraid I cant help it
Im afraid I cant
Johnnys in america
God is an american
Im afraid of americans
Im afraid of the world
AND IF THAT WEREN'T ENOUGH - RORSCHACH TEST smacked me down like a little bitch with a song they wrote after OKLAHOMA....
Today, somebody tried to blow up America
They got a daycare school instead
But I'm doin' fine, I'm on top of my world
At the bottom of this bottle
It's as empty as my head
It's in my head
It all comes back again live over CNN
It's okay to be proud to be gay
You can have a parade at the capital gate, boy!
But keep your mouth shut if you're straight
If you have the cash to cover, you can kill your wife or lover
'Cause the rock star lawyers always beat the stakes
God, please set the world on fire tonight
Please let it burn until it dies
Wipe all the madness from my eyes
I'm bored with everything
God, please set the world on fire tonight
Please let it burn until it dies
Wipe all the madness from my eyes
I'm sick of everything
Another angry white hippie girl
On her way to save the whales
Said, "I'll see you at the picket lines
Just as soon as I get done with my abortion."
And again my head is filled up with the notion
My country 'tis of thee
Sweet land of bigotry
My country 'tis of thee
Blow up in front of me!
They tried to blow up America!
So now... what can we do with the theme -
AMERICAN DREAM?
"Has the Harvster lost his fucking mind!?!?!"
Burning every country's flag, "American Dream", etc... What a polarizing bullshit idea for a theme...
Tick, tock, tick, tock...
Green Man - a fairly straight forward theme managed to polarize and not just because of the corporate pavillion.. People were getting downright shitty with one another here and there... Dude.. it's Green Man... chill the fuck out...
Burning the flags of all nations... hmm.. could one see that as symbolic of the disolution of borders and yelling out loud - "Welcome to the HUMAN race!!" Flags are what ARMIES rally behind... I enjoyed reading the comments from our friend from down under, but I dare to ask the question - are you proud of your flag, country, or culture? I can guaran-fucking-tee that if we were to ask some of the displaced indigenous peoples of EVERY FUCKING NATION ON EARTH what they thought of their "COUNTRY" they could really give two shits. Ask them about their culture and you'll be able to be mesmerized for hours.... Fuck borders and flags and countries - let's hear it for PEOPLE and CULTURE. Everyone of us is a "citizen" of BRC for a week of the year and many of us are at odds with our COUNTRY, but we are embracing the CULTURE of Burning Man... or so I'd like to think...
Then I started to have music float around in my head... you see, as is obvious, it is pretty vacant in there... David Bowie popped in at first...
A little piece of you
The little peace in me
Will die
For this is not america
Blossom falls to bloom
This season
Promise not to stare
Too long
For this is not a miracle
There was a time
A storm that blew so pure
For this could be the biggest sky
And I could have
The faintest idea
And then he hit me with a sucker punch... BASTARD!!
Johnnys in america, low-techs at the
Wheel
No-one needs anyone, they dont even
Just pretend
Johnnys in america
Johnny wants a brain, johnny wants to
Suck on a coke
Johnny wants a woman, johnny wants
To think of a joke
Johnnys in america
Johnnys in america, johnny looks up at
The stars
Johnny combs his hair and johnny
Wants pussy and cars
Johnnys in america
Im afraid of americans
Im afraid of the world
Im afraid I cant help it
Im afraid I cant
Johnnys in america
God is an american
Im afraid of americans
Im afraid of the world
AND IF THAT WEREN'T ENOUGH - RORSCHACH TEST smacked me down like a little bitch with a song they wrote after OKLAHOMA....
Today, somebody tried to blow up America
They got a daycare school instead
But I'm doin' fine, I'm on top of my world
At the bottom of this bottle
It's as empty as my head
It's in my head
It all comes back again live over CNN
It's okay to be proud to be gay
You can have a parade at the capital gate, boy!
But keep your mouth shut if you're straight
If you have the cash to cover, you can kill your wife or lover
'Cause the rock star lawyers always beat the stakes
God, please set the world on fire tonight
Please let it burn until it dies
Wipe all the madness from my eyes
I'm bored with everything
God, please set the world on fire tonight
Please let it burn until it dies
Wipe all the madness from my eyes
I'm sick of everything
Another angry white hippie girl
On her way to save the whales
Said, "I'll see you at the picket lines
Just as soon as I get done with my abortion."
And again my head is filled up with the notion
My country 'tis of thee
Sweet land of bigotry
My country 'tis of thee
Blow up in front of me!
They tried to blow up America!
So now... what can we do with the theme -
AMERICAN DREAM?
"Well Thank You CAPTAIN OBVIOUS!!!"
"Ahem... Your Welcome!!"
"Ahem... Your Welcome!!"
Re: disgusting?
Hi Godzero,
(which are all existing manifestations of American behavior which I also find abhorrent!)
I mean, heck, replace 'some attitudes' with 'radical self expression' and your sentence parses just as well...after all, radical self expression often leads to self obsession and selfish and/or dangerous behavior....
Seriously: but at the event we have decided 'you accept the risk of injury or death' by attending the event. Certainly thinking about our dreams is no more dangerous than massive flame throwers...
Regards,
Rich
The key, to me, is that the 'American Dream' is not (to me) a patriotic or nationlistic theme...the theme isn't 'the glory of America' and it isn't 'we will rock you' and it is not 'buy our shit at walmart and exploit the world.'godzero wrote:
As a European, partly raised in Africa and now living in the USA, I tend to see things a little differently than a lot of Americans. I find most (not just American) patriotic or nationalist themes/feelings/agenda, however well intended, unhelpful when trying to live on this planet.
(which are all existing manifestations of American behavior which I also find abhorrent!)
I'm seeing the words 'often engender' and 'can be detrimental.' But even _if_ I accept that the American Dream 'often engenders' those feelings it certainly doesn't _always_ engender those feelings.godzero wrote: Such attitudes often engender blinkered views leading to self-obsession and selfish and/or dangerous behavior which can be detrimental to all. Surely we don't want that on the playa?
I mean, heck, replace 'some attitudes' with 'radical self expression' and your sentence parses just as well...after all, radical self expression often leads to self obsession and selfish and/or dangerous behavior....
Seriously: but at the event we have decided 'you accept the risk of injury or death' by attending the event. Certainly thinking about our dreams is no more dangerous than massive flame throwers...
Of course there are acts of 'patriotism' that are idiotic and maudlin, but there is much more to explore! That many instances are idiotic doesn't mean _all_ instances are idiotic...godzero wrote:
As for the USA, there are many instances where the "patriotic" seems absurd, idiotic or maudlin (sing with hand on heart... aaaah) to an outsider.
Regards,
Rich
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CaptainObvious
- Posts: 13
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godzero
- Posts: 4
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- Location: San Jose, CA
Teo:Teo del Fuego wrote:godzero:
we both agree that the theme is totally inappropriate and is further evidence that Larry Harvey has lost the plot and should just retire.
BUT, no, it is not Maoist to recite the pledge of allegiance, nor is it whack to sing the national anthem at ball games, and no one said Apple Pie or "mom" originated in America. But these things are fairly close to my heart having be born and raised here in America. Try to be a bit more understanding of your host country's culture, m'kay?
I rest my case!
Actually, I didn't claim that people said "Apple Pie or "mom" originated in America" only that they say it's American. I was primarily referencing the expression "as American as apple pie", which is utterly false. Would you say "as American as coal"?
I didn't say it was Maoist to recite the pledge. I said it was "quasi-Maoist indoctrination" - not the same thing at all.
BTW, why do you also think the theme is inappropriate and what other evidence do you have that LH has lost the plot? I'm not sure he has but I'm not sure he hasn't either!
After 17 years here, I have developed a pretty good understanding of this country's culture; what is notably missing from it is an understanding that there are OTHER cultures! I have learned to enjoy and respect what this country has to offer but I don't have to agree with everything anymore than I have done/do elsewhere. Freedom of expression is not exclusively American as many would have you believe.
metta
"The most ancient book of wisdom in the world makes clear that hell is yourself in the absence of love."
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Iago
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:40 pm
- Burning Since: 1998
- Camp Name: I Camp Remember
- Location: behind the redwood curtain..
The American Dream, read it and weep.........?
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
Amendment III
No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
Amendment VII
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
Amendment III
No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
Amendment VII
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.