This theme is why I won't go next year

brasa · Post by **brasa** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:55 pm

Come on. I thought we were an alternative society, sort of living in an alternate parallel universe for a week, negating the identities and uniformities such as sovereignty and cultural monikers. Instead, we're supposed to reflect on our nationhood? UGGGHHHHH- sooooo disappointed by such a banal theme. This year the art was too watered down and diluted by the onslaught of non-participants, and there was so much less architectural art. Now a contemplation of what it means to be patriotic? The RV folks will love it, I'm sure.

greyscale · Post by **greyscale** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:05 pm

[img]http://www.yayhooray.com/imgs/pinkies/23.gif[/img]

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:09 pm

brasa, I bet you were planning on skipping next year no matter what..

I mean come on, who really goes for the theme of the burn??

The theme to me is just for the marketing of the event and to let the "HAT" sound off..

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:20 pm

Agreed, ibdave. I always thought that apart from the funded art, the theme is to keep Larry busy so he doesn't fuck up the people who actually work.

It takes time and effort to come up with that labored prose.

francesco · Post by **francesco** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:59 pm

belive it or not, a lot of us really consider the theme of whether we go to BM or not.

some of us have critical thinking skills that we employ on a daily basis.

skygod · Post by **skygod** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:51 am

[quote="brasa" Instead, we're supposed to reflect on our nationhood?
.[/quote]
I don't see what is wrong with that. Creativity thrives on controversy.
I mean, we all live here, don't we?

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:10 am

brasa wrote:Come on. I thought we were an alternative society, sort of living in an alternate parallel universe for a week, negating the identities and uniformities such as sovereignty and cultural monikers. Instead, we're supposed to reflect on our nationhood? UGGGHHHHH- sooooo disappointed by such a banal theme. This year the art was too watered down and diluted by the onslaught of non-participants, and there was so much less architectural art. Now a contemplation of what it means to be patriotic? The RV folks will love it, I'm sure.

This can be a great theme!

Just look at all the paradoxes of The American Dream! You can do something on the richest nation in the world can spend a trillion on a war to no where and New Orleans and why most of the people there still don't have a home to live in!!!! So many potentials here!

I think something is up Larry shirt after the Green thing, don't be suprised on this being the best BM ever!!!

But I guess you can read about it after the event

AIIZ

Post by **AntiM** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:10 am

brasa wrote:Come on. I thought we were an alternative society, sort of living in an alternate parallel universe for a week, negating the identities and uniformities such as sovereignty and cultural monikers. Instead, we're supposed to reflect on our nationhood? UGGGHHHHH- sooooo disappointed by such a banal theme. This year the art was too watered down and diluted by the onslaught of non-participants, and there was so much less architectural art. Now a contemplation of what it means to be patriotic? The RV folks will love it, I'm sure.

Come on. I thought we were radically self-reliant independent thinkers. I am going on my dusty fucking camping trip next year, come hell or high water or yahoos or banal themes. I am going to make that theme my bitch. You want to stay home? Good. Fine. Make yourself happy. I'm going to the desert, theme be damned.

I've already planned my theme art, won't take much work of I get cracking now. Bucky is very excited. So sorry you'll miss it. And we'd best not see the "I changed my mind and now I need a miracle ticket" post from anyone complaining about the theme/art/yahoos right now, or we shall mock you. Mock, I say! Mock!

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:31 pm

This theme is why I won't go next year

mojo · Post by **mojo** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:43 pm

francesco wrote:belive it or not, a lot of us really consider the theme of whether we go to BM or not.

some of us have critical thinking skills that we employ on a daily basis.

You are kidding, right? Please elaborate on the nexus between employing critical thinking skills on a daily basis and your decision to attend an art fesitval based on the "theme" as described by the festival organizers.

You lost me somewhere between sentences.

BigCock · Post by **BigCock** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:01 pm

http://judsonknight.blogspot.com/2005_07_01_archive.html wrote:Two Great Americans

In honor of Independence Day, I'd like to salute two gentlemen who proved that it's possible to be cool and love America. Sadly, because both were self-destructive figures, they have long since gone on.

The first of these was Jack Kerouac, who, despite his association with the Beat movement--many of whose members disdained America--was an unabashed patriot. Kerouac had nothing but contempt for flag-burners, and one of the many points of contention at his infamous meeting with Ken Kesey (depicted in Tom Wolfe's Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test) was the fact that one of Kesey's Merry Pranksters had draped an American flag ingloriously over a chair. Kerouac quietly folded the flag and handed it to Kesey.

I've done enough research to confirm what I said about Kerouac's patriotism, but on this next one I'm on more shaky ground. This was something I once heard, but for which I've not found any corroboration; anyway, it's a great story. Supposedly, when Jimi Hendrix
played "The Star-Spangled Banner" at Woodstock, he received a chorus of boos because at that time (even more so than now) nothing could be more un-hip than even appearing to celebrate America. Whether or not it's true that Hendrix played his inspired version of the national anthem against such strong popular opposition, there's no denying the fact that he was sending a strong message with his choice of "The Star-Spangled Banner" for that particular performance. While the America of Jimi Hendrix might have been different from the America of the "Establishment" in those times, it seems to me that with his funked-out, heavy-metal version of the anthem, he was saying that this country belongs to everyone who loves it and the freedom which is its basis.

Burning Man themes are more political these days. But everybody still gets to eat chicken.

Noremac · Post by **Noremac** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:19 pm

I personally believe it really can't have much, if anything, to do with the theme. Sure it may influence some in their art decisions but let's face it. Green Man? The crude awaking piece to showed how dependant we are on oil and how it is a religion of ours. That we worship it even though it destroys the environment? So to show the irony they torch it with over 900 gallons of jet fuel from NASA? The mock oil rig even produced a small mushroom cloud. That is not ecologically sounds. So, it is hypocritical for it to be about the theme. The RV's produced tons of polution on top of that. If it were really about the theme, no one would have had a car there dropping oil on the playa. I know, I am going to get bashed now and probably banned for saying something negative about it but it doesn't have to be taken negatively. Awareness is positive and with the amount of people that came, a much bigger message hopefully went out to them. But causing un-necesarry polution and call it Green Man, is the wrong message. It should be about self expression and survival and working as a whole in a temporary community. I don't see whay there needs to be any theme. Call it Burning Man. People are still going to go and just burn the man. Keep the polution to a minimum and frankly the american dream theme is somewhat disturbing. Americans are over seas fighting for us and dying. The money should be donated over there to them rather than to someone corporate entities pockets.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:08 pm

That is not ecologically sounds. So, it is hypocritical for it to be about the theme. The RV's produced tons of polution on top of that. If it were really about the theme, no one would have had a car there dropping oil on the playa.

CaptainObvious · Post by **CaptainObvious** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:02 pm

Isotopia wrote:This theme is why I won't go next year

Almost pissed myself seeing this....

skygod · Post by **skygod** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:11 pm

Iso always goes for the absolute heart of the matter and then squeezes it violently.

Token · Post by **Token** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:25 pm

ROTFLMFAO!

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:43 pm

Noremac wrote:I personally believe it really can't have much, if anything, to do with the theme. Sure it may influence some in their art decisions but let's face it. Green Man? The crude awaking piece to showed how dependant we are on oil and how it is a religion of ours. That we worship it even though it destroys the environment? So to show the irony they torch it with over 900 gallons of jet fuel from NASA? The mock oil rig even produced a small mushroom cloud. That is not ecologically sounds. So, it is hypocritical for it to be about the theme. The RV's produced tons of polution on top of that. If it were really about the theme, no one would have had a car there dropping oil on the playa. I know, I am going to get bashed now and probably banned for saying something negative about it but it doesn't have to be taken negatively. Awareness is positive and with the amount of people that came, a much bigger message hopefully went out to them. But causing un-necesarry polution and call it Green Man, is the wrong message. It should be about self expression and survival and working as a whole in a temporary community. I don't see whay there needs to be any theme. Call it Burning Man. People are still going to go and just burn the man. Keep the polution to a minimum and frankly the american dream theme is somewhat disturbing. Americans are over seas fighting for us and dying. The money should be donated over there to them rather than to someone corporate entities pockets.

Welcome to Burning Man- can't cha feel the LOVE!

Ban the RVs, the scooters, the motocycles, the un-art cars, the dumb, the waterless & the clueless; but were will the money come from to support the art?

Lukky · Post by **Lukky** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:05 pm

Isotopia wrote:
That is not ecologically sounds. So, it is hypocritical for it to be about the theme. The RV's produced tons of polution on top of that. If it were really about the theme, no one would have had a car there dropping oil on the playa.

Genius.

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:01 am

brasa wrote:Come on. I thought we were an alternative society, sort of living in an alternate parallel universe for a week, negating the identities and uniformities such as sovereignty and cultural monikers. Instead, we're supposed to reflect on our nationhood? UGGGHHHHH- sooooo disappointed by such a banal theme. This year the art was too watered down and diluted by the onslaught of non-participants, and there was so much less architectural art. Now a contemplation of what it means to be patriotic? The RV folks will love it, I'm sure.

We're supposed to reflect on our nationhood? Where, specifically, does it say that?

Not enough architectural art and too many non-participants? What do you build?

What would you like this year's theme to have been?
-zb

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:34 am

We're supposed to reflect on our nationhood? Where, specifically, does it say that?

Exactly.

Given the number of people renting the cloth here over the theme this'll be a hyper-moop zone inside of a week.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:48 am

Apollonaris Zeus · Post by **Apollonaris Zeus** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:22 pm

Bob wrote:

Bob, that guy isn't indiguous amercan!

But He is an An Awobaho with emphasis on the WOP!

Isotopia wrote:This theme is why I won't go next year

Too bad you can't make next year Iso because you got a kid to look over.

Sure, that he's yours? Don't see a speck of Blue except where the vains are?

We will miss you!

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:58 pm

brasa wrote:This year the art was too watered down and diluted by the onslaught of non-participants, and there was so much less architectural art. .

Which of it did you create?

Xhile · Post by **Xhile** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm

We may be an alternative society

(that's debateable given the huge amount of garbage generated at BM, the fact that poor people can't go because ticket prices are so high, etc)

but we are also supposed to be "radically inclusive". So the redneck patriots should be welcome at BM too, right?

I will not let a bad theme stop me coming, I will simply transform it into something I am happy with. Even though I really dislike this theme.

The main thing that would stop me coming is money; it costs $3000 minimum just to to buy a ticket and get from my country to BM. So it very much is an elitist festival.

Rich folks taking lots of drugs while the poor rot.

*stir stir*

honeyfire · Post by **honeyfire** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:46 am

How many threads do we need for discussing the theme?
When does it become eMOOP?
My thoughts on the theme are on the theme thread, if you're interested...

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:54 am

Xhile wrote:
I will not let a bad theme stop me coming, I will simply transform it into something I am happy with. Even though I really dislike this theme.

That's the best thing that's ever been written on this board. thank you.

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:34 am

blyslv wrote:
brasa wrote:This year the art was too watered down and diluted by the onslaught of non-participants, and there was so much less architectural art. .
Which of it did you create?

I was rather impressed by art by the ton. I didn't see crude awakening as watered down, quite the opposite. Than again alot of folks missed it since they were leaving Thursday and Friday to avoid the exodus crowds.

COPPERFISH · Post by **COPPERFISH** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:53 am

[quote="Apollonaris Zeus"]

This can be a great theme!

Just look at all the paradoxes of The American Dream! You can do something on the richest nation in the world can spend a trillion on a war to no where and New Orleans and why most of the people there still don't have a home to live in!!!! So many potentials here!

AIIZ[/quote]

A lot of my artwork is political and is about race and the hope and loss of the American Dream and would fit in really well with this theme. But i still don't like it and have really ambivalent feeings about making art for Burning Man, even though it provides the perfect platform for me, especially in 2008.

It's that the subversive, twisting things that you can do with this theme are too predictable. Yeah of course there will be tons of art about the impossibility of the American Dream, because that is the reality that most of us live in. But still, we will get it. It won't make us go wow, it'll make us us go "Yeah he's right, or yeah America sucks, or yeah I wish we were better than that." Its going to be a barrage of commentary on and about the American Dream. But that's all it can be in that framework of that theme.

It would be a surprise to see something that could break out of that framework and become universal. It is specific. It is placed and fixed and it would have to be some extraordinary art to break through the theme.

I dunno - The theme is just not good enough, not challenging or inclusive enough. Plus from the work that I have seen already on the playa, I don't know if artistically the community could do something really fantastic with that theme. In terms of craftsmanship and wow factor Burning Man art is awesome, but for me it has always been lacking a conceptual punch that exists in other art circles. Its big, and crafty and industrial. But it's not taken seriously by the "outside artworld" for a reason and I don't think it is just elitism. I think it just hasn't matured in a very specific and conceptual way that will allow it to work in multiple realms.

This theme of American Dream, doesn't help to nuture that journey toward conceptual and artistic maturity. Burning Man has the potential to be, and I would argue already is a School of Art of sorts. But the theme does it a disservice.

Aurei · Post by **Aurei** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:56 pm

So Burning Man is turning into everything I hate! What's with the f***ing "American Dream" Theme Bullshi*!???

Burning Man is selling out, and going way too commercial. WTF happened?

I was planning a dope theme camp and art car for next year, because I didn't have enough time to do it this year, but because of theme (like you said) I WILL NOT RETURN TO BURNING MAN NEXT YEAR UNLESS THE THEME IS CHANGED!

Do they realize how much bullshi* political crap that theme is going to drag out to the playa?
Do they realize that theme goes against every fu**ing thing I thought Burning Man stood for?
Do they realize... how many burners they are going to lose next year, due to that theme?

obviously not...

I'd like to make a letter against that theme, and have it sent all over the place and signed in hopes of them realizing they were retards when they came up with that shi*! Maybe change the theme, while it's still early? SERIOUSLY!

I was already disapointed by the not so "burning man" feeling I got out there this year, but I still had fun, the art was still rad, and the burn on both the man and the oil tower were some of the most amazing things I have ever seen, because Burning Man stepped it up as far as that goes, this year.

But seriously... change this red white and blue bullshi* to something amazing and overall... FUN!

I don't want to be handed Burning Man political crap the whole time I am out there next year (if I went of course). It doesn't make sense to me.

Burning Man is an alter reality where people can be themselves, express themselves, outside of the petty bullshi* politics we deal with every day already.

DO THEY REALLY THINK THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GET SHIT FOR THAT THEME???

Post by **AntiM** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:14 pm

Just another fucking dusty damn camping trip. There's nothing more to it than that. I've managed to ignore the politics thus far, and I'm always, always puzzled by the too commercial remarks.

Screw the theme, I'm going. And I'm going to keep saying it as long as the nay-sayers are ranting. Not going does nothing to change the event. Jaded old-timers attending to the hilt, doing their own thing, is the best revenge for bad themes.

This theme is why I won't go next year

This theme is why I won't go next year

Re: This theme is why I won't go next year

Re: This theme is why I won't go next year

Re: This theme is why I won't go next year

Theme>?

Re: Theme>?

Re: This theme is why I won't go next year

Re: This theme is why I won't go next year

Hell, how many threads do we need for anything?

Re: This theme is why I won't go next year

Re: This theme is why I won't go next year

WTF?