Help Prosecute Paul Addis

burningflyer · Post by **burningflyer** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:38 pm

Green man pavilion contributors worked for ten's of thousands of hours on projects and one egocentric man named Paul Addis destroyed their contribution for his own self serving message of anger and discontent.

Arraignment is scheduled for Sept. 25 at Pershing County Courthouse in Nevada.

Let the current Judge know how you feel about Mr. Addisâ€™s actions:

Justice of the Peace â€“ Carol A. Nelsen

Lake Township Justice Court
400 Main Street
P.O. Box 8
Lovelock , NV 89419

Phone: 775-273-2753
Fax: 775-273-0416

Many of the displays of green technology were on loan from educational outreach groups to schools and community groups and the damage to them by the water used to extinguish the unplanned burn was extensive.

Due to the closing of the pavilion, few were able to actually see or interact with the displays.

If someoneâ€™s contribution does not interest you or even offends you, then just walk away, don't destroy it like a vigilante book burning mob!

Token · Post by **Token** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:30 pm

LOL, the lame exhibits that were up Monday night, the ones that looked like the rejected science projects from the Exploratorium attic of failed exhibits.

Yeah, I'll write to the judge to get all charges dropped.

PA did everyone a favor by shutting down that embarrassing joke of a pavilion and letting community magic happen where the man was rebuilt in front of everyone.

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:37 pm

I think that if this case is successfully prosecuted than financial donations to the re-election campaigns for all involved are warranted.

Thanks for the info burningflyer, the letter is already dropped off at the PO ready for sorting and sending.

francesco · Post by **francesco** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:13 pm

i hope all charges get dropped. addis did what is expected and encouraged in the spirit of burning man; before the conformists got old, and took over, and lost complete touch with the concept of radical self expression.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:31 pm

thank you very much for posting that information...

... because it makes it much more easy for me to write them for supporting the least sentance possible. those others who have endlessly tried to hold or fight for certain beliefs, who have worked hard in various means to create an open and expressive environment that is self and community empowered, i encourage them to do the same.

much of the results of the crime were unfortunate. but the cliche of what burning the man has come to represent combined with the push of a sanctioned theme has isolated and driven away many of the prime movers and their efforts. please, let something positive come from this rather than a sense of community beating by those that hate.

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:58 pm

I understand the radical self expression and cacophony elements. That's all well and good and part of me is smiling that someone had the cajones to pull off what people have thought of doing for years. What I have an issue with is the public safety aspect of this and the precedent it sets that will open the door to the torching of anyone's art or projects. He torched art that wasn't his to torch. He initiated an uncontrolled burn without having the proper safety teams and measures in place to protect the population from harm. Looking at it from this perspective this case deserves the attention it's getting.

So...looking at it from that angle only, this can't be allowed to go unanswered or unpunished. But...hauling him up on full blown arson charges is a bit much too. Our thoughts over here is that he needs to be charged with something that will stick, something that will get his attention, but not a charge that gets him 5-15 years with 3 hots and a cot. Probation and a fine are not acceptable, probation is way too light of a sentence and he'll get help paying any fines that get assessed. The punishment must be something that hits him personally, a short time spent without his freedom might be just the thing.

Damn though...if you look at it from another angle...perhaps the ORG should pay the guy for his service. In one shot he got the event more press coverage, worldwide coverage in fact, than anything else the ORG has concocted to date for the media. You can't put a pricetag on publicity like that. Heck...this might have been the thing that generates enough awareness to move the event past the 50K pop wall and kicks it to the next level. Who knows. In any event the whole thing was just unfortunate and it will be interesting to see how it all plays out in the months ahead.

punface · Post by **punface** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:38 am

One of the things that I really loved about the Burning Man Concept was that it allowed for the creative exchange of ideas without shying risk. In the past years however, this boldness is getting replaced by the sqeamish voices of those that can't keep a cap on their fears:

More cops, more talk of responsibility, more political themes, less immediacy, and more cowardly BS justifications for political moves and the same old manipulative power struggles we know from the outside world.

The legal action against Addis is the icying on the cake for me. What a cowardly gesture. We should've come up with a burning-man-way of dealing with the problem like an open hearing where burners themselves make the decision of whether they want to hug attention-seeking Paul or throw tomatoes at him.

But to go tell on him and sue him?
Rediculous.

Somebody got hurt?
That's life if we don't watch our backs.

Somebody's art destroyed?
If their art means so much to them, then let the narcissts guard their art (or call more cops to do so!) day and night. You should't expect security in an event that touts itself as being of 'radical self-expression'.

This is getting way too serious for somebody as rediculous as myself. This is starting to seem sane!

And that's just crazy...

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:02 am

punface wrote:One of the things that I really loved about the Burning Man Concept was that it allowed for the creative exchange of ideas without shying risk. In the past years however, this boldness is getting replaced by the sqeamish voices of those that can't keep a cap on their fears:

There's risk and then there's stupidity. I'll take my element of risk in the form of weather and mechanical breakdowns, not from some idiot trying to make a statement at my expense.

More cops, more talk of responsibility, more political themes, less immediacy, and more cowardly BS justifications for political moves and the same old manipulative power struggles we know from the outside world.

The event is held on federal land, BLM land. If you wanna play there, you gotta play by their rules. Simple as that. If you don't like it may I suggest you visit many of the other fine empty playas in the area besides the Black Rock. The BLM is making the call for more cops, and they are the ones that changed the designation of the event to being "commercial". So if you have a beef with that the Winnemucca BLM office is where you would start in making your complaints known.

The legal action against Addis is the icying on the cake for me. What a cowardly gesture. We should've come up with a burning-man-way of dealing with the problem like an open hearing where burners themselves make the decision of whether they want to hug attention-seeking Paul or throw tomatoes at him.

But to go tell on him and sue him?
Rediculous.

So if someone torched your art and you got hurt in the process you can honestly tell everyone that you wouldn't sue? Please. If you didn't and your insurance had to pay for your medical care they would sue or you were out thousands of dollars in tools, materials, and time....I'd bet you would be Googling local attorneys too. If you can absorb such a loss though...more power to ya.

Somebody got hurt?
That's life if we don't watch our backs.

Somebody's art destroyed?
If their art means so much to them, then let the narcissts guard their art (or call more cops to do so!) day and night. You should't expect security in an event that touts itself as being of 'radical self-expression'.

This is getting way too serious for somebody as rediculous as myself. This is starting to seem sane!

And that's just crazy...

It is absolute bullshit to think that I have to provide heavy security (beyond simple, reasonable and prudent measures like basic locks, key control, etc) for my art at the event. When it reaches the point that I have to pile that expense on to the already sizeable expenses incurred to get the art out there and to display or drive it, the extra security expense could be the difference in deciding to take it to a regional instead or just stay home. As for people getting hurt, minor injuries in a city of 50K pop is to be expected. But if arson happens in a city of 50K around here it gets TV coverage and it damn sure gets prosecuted. What's being asked for in prosecuting the scumbag is for the same "community standards" to be applied in this case that are applied in other communities nationwide. I'm sorry if you disagree with that, if you don't like it work to change the rules and make arson legal....that's your uphill battle should you choose to accept it. Since that has the same chance of happening as seeing a snowball in hell....I hope they prosecute the fucker. But as I've also said in another post the punishment needs to be effective. 15 years behind bars on an arson charge is not right either. Compromise...there's gotta be some.

--Ever-- · Post by **--Ever--** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:15 am

punface wrote:Somebody's art destroyed?
If their art means so much to them, then let the narcissts guard their art (or call more cops to do so!) day and night. You should't expect security in an event that touts itself as being of 'radical self-expression'.

Can we call you names similar to "narcissts" when someone, as an act of radical self-expression, burns your tent down and donates away your weeks-supply of food and clothes? Just making sure that your generalization stands in all similar cases.

I personally think something less destructive than torching the poor guy would have been much more inventive and to-the-point. A nice stealthy kidnapping+ransom would have been my method of choice.

--Ever-- · Post by **--Ever--** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:23 am

Whoops, double post

Post by **AntiM** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:23 am

francesco wrote:i hope all charges get dropped. addis did what is expected and encouraged in the spirit of burning man; before the conformists got old, and took over, and lost complete touch with the concept of radical self expression.

What happened to don't interfere with another participant's experience? I've got yer radical self-expression right here.

punface · Post by **punface** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:39 am

"So if someone torched your art and you got hurt in the process you can honestly tell everyone that you wouldn't sue? Please. If you didn't and your insurance had to pay for your medical care they would sue or you were out thousands of dollars in tools, materials, and time....I'd bet you would be Googling local attorneys too. If you can absorb such a loss though...more power to ya. "

Well, I work in a recording studio in Germany and am used to people not torching our creative output, but instead stealing it. And yes, I have thought about legal action, but only in my weaker moments and have decided to go for a few secondary jobs instead. But you are right. More and more people would google an attorney. But as this style of thinking increasingly frustrates me and makes me wanna sing and dance less, I refuse to keep paying the price of being street-smart. Justice is never equal to even a successful lawsuit. The old-fashioned values of 'old europe' I suppose. Make way for freshness!

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:43 am

there is a big difference between someone's art and the man.

a big one.

dj_john69 · Post by **dj_john69** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:28 pm

francesco wrote:i hope all charges get dropped. addis did what is expected and encouraged in the spirit of burning man; before the conformists got old, and took over, and lost complete touch with the concept of radical self expression.

You must be a fucking idiot my friend. Go eat a bullet.

Lukky · Post by **Lukky** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:47 pm

dj_john69 wrote:
francesco wrote:i hope all charges get dropped. addis did what is expected and encouraged in the spirit of burning man; before the conformists got old, and took over, and lost complete touch with the concept of radical self expression.
You must be a fucking idiot my friend. Go eat a bullet.

I know that that may sound like hippie shit, but it is. So is Burning Man, and I think they should decide what happens on the arson, but a judge should be involved with the charges dealing with endangerment.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:02 am

dj_john69 wrote:You must be a fucking idiot my friend. Go eat a bullet.

nice comment, you must be the dj from outpost23, right?

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:21 am

there is a big difference between someone's art and the man.

a big one.

I agree, but wasn't personal art burnt along with the man?

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:44 am

Obviously what they should have done is stomped the piss out of him, tied him to the back of a DPW truck and keelhauled his ass into the middle of the open playa with a jug of water and a hat to keep him from burning to death in the sun. ("GULAG!") At least there wouldn't be a bunch of weenies whining about lawsuits, cops or radical expression; why, hell, technically he's still on the playa and nobody would have to lawyer up.

If we're supposed to forgive arson in the name of radical expression, as long as we don't actually cripple or kill somebody, why can't we deploy a little frontier justice and spare everybody the police? IE, you burn somebody's art, the rest of us hold you down while the builders get to burn their initials into your forehead. Not only would it be law-free, it would smell like bacon!

That's art. All hail anarchy!

If you REALLY want anarchy and danger, go party in NOLA's lower 9th Ward. Hell, you can commit MURDER and nobody will press charges.

Or, we require that they build 50,000 Men so each one of us get to burn our own like Addis did. That's probably more reasonable...

-zb

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:03 am

spectabillis wrote:there is a big difference between someone's art and the man.

a big one.

No there isn't and I challenge you to try and describe in any sort of intellectually honest way. We're not talking qualitative difference. That it's boring and played, doesn't mean anyone has the right to burn it down. It's the "special olympics" of art. Burning down the man is about as articulate a form of "radical self expression" as shitting your pants.

Ron · Post by **Ron** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:19 am

spectabillis wrote:there is a big difference between someone's art and the man.

a big one.

What is that difference?

Ron

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:40 am

ZaphodBurner wrote:Obviously what they should have done is stomped the piss out of him, tied him to the back of a DPW truck and keelhauled his ass into the middle of the open playa with a jug of water and a hat to keep him from burning to death in the sun.

for some i guess its nice to see burningman has developed into a self-serving form of vigilante justice based on hate and anger. in all honesty, you think having that attitude and atmosphere is a good thing? sure it can be effective, but considering there are alternatives, and this is partially about a social experiment, wouldnt it make sense to put more effort and energy into comming up with something else?

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:55 am

so i guess trying to understand why these unfortunate things happen is far less important than having some communal scapegoat to hate. it was a long time comming and there was even a previous attempt. other people had been talking about doing it for years yet now that its been done, its a focal point of hate with surprise?

the man has become a collective symbol, much of that has been sanctioned and intentional with repeated construction over all the years. someones art is not.

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:56 am

spectabillis wrote:
ZaphodBurner wrote:Obviously what they should have done is stomped the piss out of him, tied him to the back of a DPW truck and keelhauled his ass into the middle of the open playa with a jug of water and a hat to keep him from burning to death in the sun.
for some i guess its nice to see burningman has developed into a self-serving form of vigilante justice based on hate and anger. in all honesty, you think having that attitude and atmosphere is a good thing? sure it can be effective, but considering there are alternatives, and this is partially about a social experiment, wouldnt it make sense to put more effort and energy into comming up with something else?

LOL! Yeah, fuck it. Let Addis free.

What I'm saying is, if folks want anarchy and freedom from LEO interference, they better be ready to accept it when reality doesn't follow their fucked-up utopian anarchist fantasies.

What about the DANGER, man? Fuck the POLICE, yo. Addis wasn't an arsonist who destroyed other people's art and put people's lives at risk, he was an ARTIST.

...he wasn't self-serving, vigilante or acting out based on anger, was he? There was no hatred in his little web screed, was there?

If you're gonna embrace the Yin, embrace the Yang, man.

-zb

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:10 am

read over my comment again then explain how you think i believe he should be set free. thats your assumption, and a wrong one. you also assume everyone wants anarchy and freedom from leo influence, i dont think so.

from one of addis comments he mentions he was cautious in a way to help avoid putting people at risk. if thats true, then it doesnt seem much different from intentionally putting large fire cannons in close proximity to people, having flamethrowers like mine, poi performers, fire spitters... please be careful about using that argument because if you push it too far the reaction is going to be taking all those things away.

chiefdanfox · Post by **chiefdanfox** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:41 am

The whole thing started as an effigy, right? Why not make an effigy of Mr. Addis every year, but not burn it. That would be a suitable "playa justice". I have a suggestion for the first design: a big wooden man crapping into a big wooden punch bowl.

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:57 am

chiefdanfox wrote:The whole thing started as an effigy, right? Why not make an effigy of Mr. Addis every year, but not burn it. That would be a suitable "playa justice". I have a suggestion for the first design: a big wooden man crapping into a big wooden punch bowl.

I say bring 8 effigies, each with a clearly labeled fuse. If someone lights it, haul the remains to a burn platform and install the next one.

burningflyer · Post by **burningflyer** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:04 am

Excerpts from the Paul Addis interview with Valleywag

http://valleywag.com/tech/exclusive/int ... 295378.php

"a few things should be addressed. First, this operation was extensively planned well in advance"

Confesses to a premeditated act of arson.

"We could give a fuck less what you all think of us for doing this. Most of you are newbies who have been drawn in by the semi-religious nature of the event, or maybe just the easy drugs and easier sex. You have nothing to offer the event other than your fucking money and obedience. You spend the rest of your lives in mortal fear of everything that insurance companies tell you to fear, and pretend that you're free and clear because you spend four days at a desert bacchanal where spinelessness is not only encouraged but genetically replicated for implementation in successive generations. In short, you are the swine of which Thompson spoke. Get over yourselves."

Implicates himself in performing a hate crime.

"Consider this operation a history lesson that was desperately needed"

Shows no remorse for his actions.

--Ever-- · Post by **--Ever--** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:24 am

burningflyer wrote: "Consider this operation a history lesson that was desperately needed"[/b]

A history lesson? Paul, less self-back patting please.

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:39 am

spectabillis wrote:read over my comment again then explain how you think i believe he should be set free. thats your assumption, and a wrong one. you also assume everyone wants anarchy and freedom from leo influence, i dont think so.

from one of addis comments he mentions he was cautious in a way to help avoid putting people at risk. if thats true, then it doesnt seem much different from intentionally putting large fire cannons in close proximity to people, having flamethrowers like mine, poi performers, fire spitters... please be careful about using that argument because if you push it too far the reaction is going to be taking all those things away.

Addis committed a crime. Why would I believe anything he has to say?
The difference between your flamethrower and some random drug-addled arsonist is, you are (I presume) not committing crimes or destroying stuff without permission while you're on the playa.

What's missing, as people continue to point out, is RESPECT. Addis didn't respect the community. Why should the community respect him?

I'm not saying -you- said he should be set free, but keep watching these forums. Your opinion is probably similar to mine; he should be held accountable even though prison time is probably not appropriate since nobody was hurt. But, what if next year, somebody -does- get hurt dealing with some selfish brat's little stunt? What if instead of rushing out there with the trucks and risking running somebody or something over, etc, they had decided to just let it all burn down? ...and then found human remains in the rubble the next morning? Who had to sift through the debris hoping they didn't find some raver's charred corpse? Addis?
Would he have been there to help if the structure had collapsed onto somebody?

Meanwhile, there's a clear misconception that BM means you can do whatever you want and call it "radical self-expression." Man, I could blow the FUCK out of a portable toilet and call it radical expression--just think of what you could do with your flamethrower--but, I respect the community and especially the efforts of the people who do the dirty work so I have the right to run around and bitch about how much I hate it.

-c

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:08 pm

because someone committed a crime, they are automatically a liar in whatever they say? i know he's in a tight spot now, and definately stupid with some of the things he says afterwards which will not help his case, but i also hope you dont really believe that makes any and all things he said false. even assholes have valid points.

and i understand about his act being intentional to cause harm and i am glad that difference is easy to understand for many, but my concern is with the over-reactions that will have a tendency to lead to even more restrictions and outright bans. interesting thing, but in the early days of burning there wasnt much of a perimeter and extremely dangerous, that danger was part of the appeal in a totally bizzarre and exciting sense of chaos that people were interested in. the safety concerns of a growing crowd of clueless idots helped cause and end to that for everyone else.

the other concern is seeing that he planned this with enough foresight not to put others intentionally in danger, but people dont really want to hear that because they enjoy feeling justified that he put people in harms way. look at the poster from deathray who's friend contributed to a display in the pavillian, they are calling for the max sentance and intentionally use any argument for leverage while posting and creating topics here and on several groups on tribe with an address of the judge to write to.

Help Prosecute Paul Addis

Help Prosecute Paul Addis

Lame, Lame, Lame

Re: Lame, Lame, Lame

Re: Lame, Lame, Lame

Premeditated arsonist hate crime

Re: Premeditated arsonist hate crime