2008 "American Dream" theme

Major Extremes · Post by **Major Extremes** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:20 pm

Boy a lot of negativity in the response to this theme. Can't say I was thrilled at first either when I read it in a Center Camp newspaper on Sunday. I'm an internationalist and don't believe that nationalism leads to much useful, whether American, Fijian or anything else. But it is real, more real than Psyche or the attempt to make Burning Man "green" that's for sure. And BM sure as hell is American. We hung out with the Uchronians/Belgian Waffle dudes last Sunday too and they, like almost all of the non-US citizens I meet out there agree that BM could not take place anywhere else (with the possible exception of Australia) but America and it is inherently American. And every time you drive out to BRC, through those huge expanses of dry praire with the mountains looming in the distance, that's America. And when you drive through the Native American communties, that real fucking America right there. Dreams made, dreams shattered. That is our America. Ask Harry Reid, BRC's senior senator or our Congressman, Dan Heller (R), or the BLM for christ's sake, our Federal overlords, who attempt to govern the stolen, dream shattered lands, if the Native AMericans even considered it "theirs" in the first place.

You live in America. You may not like it, but it is yours. Make it your own, take it back, do whatever you need to do. Just don't hide from it, because then you're just lying to yourself.

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:30 pm

Rich wrote:Every time you mock a Larry Harvey Theme (tm), or mock the American Dream, god kills a kitten.

I thought god only killed kittens when we masturbate.

Rich · Post by **Rich** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:39 pm

Toolmaker wrote:
Rich wrote:Every time you mock a Larry Harvey Theme (tm), or mock the American Dream, god kills a kitten.
I thought god only killed kittens when we masturbate.

I believe in a more activist god.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:26 pm

"The Seven Ages Of Charleton Heston."

Now THAT's some lateral thinking to be proud of!

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:19 pm

What the hell is the matter with the American Dream, you pinko commie bastards?

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:48 pm

he's not a communist he's a TERRORIST who should be immediately apprehended and sent to gitmo to be tortured next to that PAUL GUY who burned down our cultural icon on FEDERAL PROPERTY because you might as well be BURNING AN AMERICAN FLAG. ship him out immediately as a threat to national security and avoid any legal due process where we will torture him with ten thousand volts to his testicles! AMERICAN DREAM THIS YOU EVIL BASTARDS WE DONT WANT NO IMMIGRANTS WHO WE CANT BOMB!

oh wait, yeah, that green thing.. whats the carbon footprint of torturing someone with electricity? oh well, we'll just get some huggers to plant some pine tree somewhere in suburbia.

georgio5 · Post by **georgio5** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:33 am

This whole topic motivated me t o sign up to this board,.. just to vote on this poll.

i could add a paragraph or two of complaints of why this theme caused me to lose interest in BM '08. However, I there's enough arguments on this thread which portray my feelings...and its obvious the vast majority hate the theme. So I'd rather just ask:

How can we change the theme?

If BMORG doesn't budge. Maybe we could all just create another theme, and all participants will follow that?

Rich · Post by **Rich** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:30 am

georgio5 wrote:This whole topic motivated me t o sign up to this board,.. just to vote on this poll.

How can we change the theme?

The theme rocks. Go ahead and return to your apathy

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:12 am

francesco wrote:this is another face of our imperial arrogance.

we the people of the united states, consider ourselves to be the only americans. remember, if you are from peru, el salvador, canada, or chile you are also an american. if you travel central and south america, the folks there are always in awe and disgust at how the united statsens or north americans take the word american for themselves and themselves only. america starts in alaska and ends in tierra del fuego or vise a versa.

this is another reason that the theme american dream makes no sense. it's a home-grown and bottled concept that only applies to the americans in the united states. most americans don't even live in the united states or even speak english.

to find this arrogance and ignorance at burning man is very troubling.

i know larry is not all that bright, but this makes him look a bit like king george in his arrogance and ignorance.

I think most people are capable of differentiating between a certain political subdivision in North America and the rest of the political subdivisions. The word "America" is amenable to more than one meaning, n'est-ce-que pas? If I say "I'm American" it doesn't negate the Bolivians, or Puruvians or Paraguayans.

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:20 am

I think most people are capable of differentiating between a certain political subdivision in North America and the rest of the political subdivisions. The word "America" is amenable to more than one meaning, n'est-ce-que pas? If I say "I'm American" it doesn't negate the Bolivians, or Puruvians or Paraguayans.

Someone could do the Venezuelan American Dream-- in my opinion that would rock!

B.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:45 am

Badger wrote:
"The Seven Ages Of Charleton Heston."
Now THAT's some lateral thinking to be proud of!

\/
Hmmm

Am. dream

food for the masses

chuck heston

soylent green

Quaestor · Post by **Quaestor** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:08 am

You can do three things. You can stay home. You can try to change the theme, or you can work with it. Power to those working on the second, but I'm going to work with it.

The theme isn't "The American Dream" anymore. It's "How to Fix the Default World" with an emphasis on America. Take your visions of global culture, of multiculture, of how you want to see the whole world, and make it art, make it food, make it games and themes. Draw your examples from American history where you can; where the right thing happened, where it's all wrong. This is different because it's not escapism - this theme only works if we have goals reaching beyond the Black Rock City.

...Or you can buff out on History. Please, someone, make an Abraham Lincoln Costume Break Dance Party.

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:09 am

Black Rock City is in Nevada.

In the United States of America.

Where else could it be?...but here?

Where are all the other festivals of Art and Survival? Of making Something from Nothing--and turning it back into Nothing?

There are none.

In all the world it only exists on the playa.

Why?

Because Americans (and by this I mean citizens of the US, not Mexicans, Venesuelans, Panamanians, Canadians, Guatemalans or any other citizens or native of the Americas. They have their own names for their nations, let's respect that) are the world's crazy people.

We take things too far. We build things weirder. We make pastimes out of things that range from drudgery to torture in other countries. We live our lives on an edge of contradiction, innovation, exhultation and desperation.

And we make the rest of the world think that this is pretty cool.

Oh, they can hate our politics, and they can insult and degrade our culture

But god damn, they sure seem to suck it up.

Our music, our movies, our food--even our food thats THEIR food spun through a few decades of American-immigrant culture

For all of it's warts, America is a perfect example of hybrid vigor.

It's that melting pot thing.

Together, we're a tasty amalgam of all the flavors of the world, suitable for fondue.

And everyone loves fondue......hmmmm

There's an idea......a giant fondue pot...or pots.....with fondues built of unlikely combinations of flavors

or maybe a REALLY big fondue pot, filled with something you could dunk people into--and they could sit on things that look like skewers.....

rei_dishon · Post by **rei_dishon** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:19 am

so missed it this year though i have spend in 5 year 8 weeks on the playa all the way from israel.

i think that the festival is americanized enough (rich and white) beside calling this theme -""American Dream" to add more patriotism !!!! make me little sick - maybe we could bring some dead iraqes - (since only last month there were more dead iraq civilians then in all 9\11)
i think that as well calling a theme like that - that for sure that 70 % of the people won't like it - it might be a way for the LLC to show that they ar not "selling" the fesitval
(http://www.savebrc.org/BRC-CC/New%20for%202007.html) and what really matters here in this festival is the content of it and people do give a shit.

and yeah - here is another sad shirt for us - us all

georgio5 · Post by **georgio5** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:41 am

i think what disenchants me the most is the obvious lack of creativity of this theme. It's like when a band starts making bad albums after an illustrious career, you still buy their albums .. and you defend them and try and find the good and hints of brilliance and still defend them.. or have faith they'll return to old form. but after a while you just give up and stop following them.

The sentiment of people's reaction to Paul Addis is also sad.. some people actually want him to spend 5 years in jail for what he did? Maybe these people had something to do with picking this years theme.. WTF is going on?

i don't want to debate about the US and patriotism. I get enough of it in the real world.. and these arguments are now gonna happen in the BM community, it's inevitable. The arguments are old and worn.. there is nothing else to add to the mix. People have chosen their opinions and ar e probably not gonna change them. Burning Man was an escape from all that..i never got in a political debate there. now the universality is gone.

The theme should change. If the creative ones are able to change the theme, it will motivate me to go. If not, I'll probably use my resources and go travel to some other part of the world. I've done this in years past, when i decided to skip out on BM.

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:53 am

Here's a story. I was a young punk in Greece taking a train from Corfu to Athens. Through his grandson, an old man explained to me that he could give me only half his heart. While he loved America and Americans, he detested the American government. Then he kicked my ass in a contest of strength, then he taught me to dance, then he got me passing out drunk on Ouzo.

He could differentiate between a country's government and a country's culture.

sheeesh.

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:01 pm

georgio5 wrote:People have chosen their opinions and ar e probably not gonna change them. Burning Man was an escape from all that..i never got in a political debate there. now the universality is gone.

What universality? The first time my wife and I went to BM, the camp behind us, 7:30 and Venus or whatever, featured a bunch of dudes in Che Guevara shirts, a cutout of George Bush and some fake grenades to throw at it.

A camp down the street showed Farenheit 9/11 on auto-repeat. The toilets had stickers on them that said "Republican voting booth" (now, that was funny) My impression of BRC is that it has always been acceptable to trash the right, but if you glorify it or trash the left, that's uncool.

I agree with people about getting away from default world political rhetoric, or at least making extreme amounts of fun of it, but I don't think the American Dream is a political thing unless you let politicians manipulate your feelings about it. To me the "American Dream" is the right and the possibility to work your ass off to succeed at whatever it is you try to do. Stripped of the politics, corporate economy, global exploitating, etc, I think it looks quite a bit like Black Rock City.

Basically, I think if we chisel away all the crap and corrosion, we'll find the jewel in there.

-c

Barbie · Post by **Barbie** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:11 pm

monkeys, monkeys and donkey fucking

serafaery · Post by **serafaery** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:14 pm

I agree with hsdavis and domitron that perhaps this theme is BMORG's response to so many complaints that the event is too popular. Making it unpopular will reduce attendance and fulfill their wishes, yes?

I also agree with blyslv that (US) Americans are lazy and complacent when it comes to politics - we gripe and moan, but until our comfy lifestyle is immediately effected, we'll do nothing to change what we complain about.

Does anyone else see the parallel with people complaining so much about everything that's wrong with Burning Man and complaining about everything that's wrong with the US? Maybe this is BMORG's way of poking its participants to see if they'll actually *do* anything about what they dislike.

The Green Man theme was insultingly trendy, in my opinion. Most of us who live alternative lifestyles have been "green" long before it was trendy. This theme is so, I dunno... it makes me want to make a giant penis art car painted with the stars and stripes or something.

Will we mobilize a movement to petition to change the theme?

Does art need to be political? I hate politics, personally, but things are getting to the point where I feel I need to get personally involved and start to *do* things to change what's going on, rather than sitting back and frowning about the slaughtered innocents, while not lifting a finger to help them - and allowing my government to use my tax dollars to kill their brothers and sisters, mothers and daughters.

...

It's unfortunate that the negative voices of so many participants drowns out those of us who are still true to Burning Man's principles, who still work hard at our own expense to make it as good an event as we can. I've felt personally insulted by some of Larry Harvey's complaints about the general attitude of participants, while ignoring those of us who are still busting ass to make this dream possible, and good, and beautiful. It feels like someone somewhere is getting rich off of our efforts, and the appreciation is quickly dwindling.

My dream is getting squashed.

Rich · Post by **Rich** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:19 pm

I am really confused here, why do supposed 'liberals' hate about dreams? Why are so many of you so whiny about the 'American Dream?'

It is the strangest thing. It is important to be tolerant of every damn thing, but somehow something amorphous, something that changes regularly, something with no set meaning, is unacceptable because it includes the word 'American.'

The American Dream is not 'The White Neocon Republican Dream.'

Greens · Post by **Greens** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:35 pm

Rich wrote:It is important to be tolerant of every damn thing, but somehow something amorphous, something that changes regularly, something with no set meaning, is unacceptable because it includes the word 'American.'

I think some of the issue stems from the history of Burning Man touting itself as an event of "radical inclusion", with global, regional contacts and events. It is an idea that in this place, all are welcome and encouraged to participate. The "American Dream" does not prevent this radical inclusion, but certainly sends a message of the event taking on a U.S. centric slant.

"What can post-modern America yet give to the world" is to me not the right question for this event. "What can a post-modern citizen give back to the world?" really takes on the very embodiement of Burning Man.

People seem to get easily polarized by anything with a political slant, and I think it is important to realize that much of the debate has had little to do with Pro or Anti-American sentiment, but rather does centralizing this event around a national identity (regardless of which one) help support the underlying ethos that this community has been about.

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:10 pm

The American Dream is about radical inclusivity.

In America, you can become what you want. You are not bound by ties of family, caste or class.

Don't confuse America with politics.

COPPERFISH · Post by **COPPERFISH** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:19 pm

[quote="Bob"]Aren't you American?[/quote]

What about the folks who aren't or don't claim that as an identifing characteristic?

COPPERFISH · Post by **COPPERFISH** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:31 pm

[quote="Toolmaker"]The theme is pure genius.[/quote]

Yo Mamma's pure Genius! Oh wait ... what?

BitterDan · Post by **BitterDan** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:42 pm

I can work with this theme.

COPPERFISH · Post by **COPPERFISH** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:48 pm

[quote="lurker"]In America, you can become what you want. You are not bound by ties of family, caste or class.[/quote]

You've got to be kidding. i don't know one person who is not bound in some way, shape, or form by the things you mentioned. Even rich people are bound by class.

What are you smokin'? Just because there are anecdotal stories of people "making it", (whatever that means) doesn't mean that everyone can make it no matter what their circumstances. That's just crazy-talk.

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:48 pm

COPPERFISH wrote:What about the folks who aren't or don't claim that as an identifing characteristic?

What, specifically, about them? They're welcome too, so long as they don't try and burn down the art!

COPPERFISH · Post by **COPPERFISH** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:28 pm

[quote="blyslv"]
What, specifically, about them? They're welcome too, so long as they don't try and burn down the art![/quote]

well I think the fact that the grant monies don't all go to Themed art will be the saving grace. But THEMATICALLY, no they aren't invited to particpate. Nor is anyone who has little or no connection to the concept of an American Dream, be them a national or not.

I dunno...

on the other hand it's got me thinking despite my initial naysaying. In the end I do have a lot to say about the American Dream. But i'm ambivalent about saying it at Burning Man. (Not sure why)

That said, and acquiescing to the American Dream Theme (at least it rhymes), how about a merry-go-round of cars (bodies of old Chevy autos) powered by people pushing it, with Dinah Shore singing, "See the USA in your Chevrolet!â€

georgio5 · Post by **georgio5** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:50 pm

Some of arguments and comments on this thread sadly confirm my disinterest in this year's theme. I know this is just some forum on the web, but i have a suspicion that the diversity of opinions on here are representative of the many people who attend BM. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and thats cool with me.

I just respectfully disagree.. and will probably sit this one out unless some changes are made. I sat out this year for various reasons, most of them monetary, but I was planning to go in '08 it will have been my 5th burn.

Maybe i've gotten all I could out the BM experience I'm all for change.. I'm not trying to bring back the good ol' days.. I just don't like where BM is going...

If you are into this "American Dream " theme and, consequently, what BM is becoming.. have a great time in 2008! I still have hope the theme could change.. so hopefully the like-minded people who despise this theme.. can make a difference.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:20 pm

I can work with this theme.

As can I once plans are solidified for our 'refugee' processing station to be located at the very edge of Black Rock City. It'll be the camp closest to the trash fence where all the sneak-in's make their mad dash from the 12 mile point. As with Cuban refugees the idea is that if runners can set foot on soil within BRC then just as with Florida they'll be automatically be granted asylum. They'll be provided food, water, cigarettes, immunity and a bacon subsidy to do as they see fit while at the event. This idea also borrows from the Hawaiian idea of "pu`uhonua" or place of refuge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pu%27uhonu ... rical_Park which Hunter S. Thompson wrote about in his book The Curse of Lono.

It'll be easier to ask forgiveness than permission but that too is something considered quite American.

Christ, who says you can't work with this theme? I say it's pregnant with possibility if some people would just take time to stop their Knee-jerk PC Dance of Angst and Moral Indignation(TM) and think of a few ideas to take it in another direction.

2008 "American Dream" theme

How much do you like the 2008 "American Dream" theme?

Re: God kills a kitten

Re: God kills a kitten

Theme Variation: How To Fix [America, etc.]

can please someone tell me it's Larry's joke ?

Why does the 'left' hate dreams?

Re: Why does the 'left' hate dreams?