""-What does "the American Dream" mean to a Ugandan, or a resident of East Timor whom I know and converse with on occasion?
""
Well, that's part of the question, isn't? What indeed does it mean to them? I'd like to see their interpretation. Who said it has to be a celebration of the "dream"? Art is supposed to challenge us to see things as they are interpreted by another being, another mind, right? I know what I think when I hear "American Dream" but I'm really eager to see what it brings up for others.
2008 "American Dream" theme
Liar.complete and utter bullshit. as a canadian, 2008 was to be my first year on the playa. no way. i have a dream that doesn't include nations.
Your first damned sentence says "as a canadian". You've got a dream that doesn't include MY nation--yours is just fine.
Wanna talk pointless nationalism? Why is the maple leaf incorporated into the McDonalds logo in Canada?
Where? In New Orleans? Damn, you just can't seem to get your jollies anywhere BUT America.i will not participate in a celebration of the american dream. why wouldn't i just head to mardi gras?
International festival my ass.
It wasn't international when Larry was burning the man on a beach. It didn't become international, really international, until it got big enough for the rest of the world to hear about it.
"Oh, yes, Burning Man is WONDERFUL!!!! But we don't want to hear anything good about the place where it's held, it offends our national sensibilities--you can deride the country it's held in if you want, that's fine, in fact we'd enjoy it, what the hell, we'll help...."
Can't we say there's anything good about our country without the whole world taking offense?
"Life is like a box of razor blades. Sharp, shiny, and good for removing unwanted body hair"
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CapSmashy
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CapSmashy
- Posts: 1917
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My wife had an excellent suggestion....Badger wrote:Capt,
That'd be FANTASTIC!
I've put a little bit more thought into it and a suggestion has been made that our camp is probably gonna need a few 'coyotes' with art cars so we can disperse our new refugees throughout BRC.
We'll dress them in very garish, obviously bad Buhrner drag (think lime green poly wigs, real bell bottoms, garish jewelry) and randomly drop them off at camps. As mentioned before we'll provide each with a bottle of Jim Beam, a gallon of water, cigarettes and a small bacon subsidy. After that they're on their own.
Establish several "Home Depot" camp points throughout BRC. Maybe along "B" street. Close to the main drag, but just off it so it can be overlooked.
Take the "refugees" directly to these points and drop them off. Then, as other theme camps and villages need labor for building, clean up, washing dishes, cooking, etc., members of those theme camps can cruise the Home Depot lot and negotiate for day labor.
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ludwigdesign
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2008 Theme - Food for thought and discussion
Understanding the American Dream has been a lifelong study for me. I have been greatly influenced by it (as we all are) and yet never felt part of it. After 62 years, I have come to a cynical view in which I see it as a vision created by the forces of/in power in our culture to manage the rest of us, the "worker bees". The belief that possessions will bring us happiness and make us fulfilled has driven the American economy since the 50's, and the toll it has taken on individual freedom and family health is just started being understood. I have a lot more to say about this, but take a look at how our cultural institutions are failing, and you will find the illusion of "The AMerican Dream" lurking in the background: environmental degradation, personal debt, the disappearance of "free time", health, schools, dysfunctional families.
Now, place our collective experience of Burning Man against this backdrop of negativity. We have called our place on the playa "home", and the life we return to "the default world". I have tried to bring more and more of my playa experience back into my default world to infuse it with a taste of playa dust, a taste of an alternate, more truthful reality, a taste of meaning. I have imagined that my colleagues and clients might be resistant and even offended, but instead I find them to be fascinated. In my small corner of the world, I find my default world eager to find out more, ask questions and even consider a revision to The American Dream.
So the invitation is: how might we imagine The American Dream to be different, based on the experience and lessons of the playa? If I go to the core, I see the act of burning the man as a release of attachment to ego and possessions. I see the general success of the"lack of rules" as an indication that we have way, way too many rules (both internal and external) and could experience much more freedom with fewer rules and not face anarchy. I see amazing value in the power, strength and inspiration of community, at all scales, including "radical inclusiveness". And on and on.
Next we come to the question: "How to make a BM theme from these ideas?" How can we engage the default world and The American Dream without risking diffusion and loss of our radical intensity? I personally experienced many more "first time burners" this year who seemed to be observing but not engaging. Perhaps it was just too much for them to take in, but for the first time I had a few things disappear from my campsite. The myth of The American Dream no longer works for us, in fact, the entire mythology of middle America needs radical work. We are the myth-makers. Our personal stories are the myths we are living by.
Now, place our collective experience of Burning Man against this backdrop of negativity. We have called our place on the playa "home", and the life we return to "the default world". I have tried to bring more and more of my playa experience back into my default world to infuse it with a taste of playa dust, a taste of an alternate, more truthful reality, a taste of meaning. I have imagined that my colleagues and clients might be resistant and even offended, but instead I find them to be fascinated. In my small corner of the world, I find my default world eager to find out more, ask questions and even consider a revision to The American Dream.
So the invitation is: how might we imagine The American Dream to be different, based on the experience and lessons of the playa? If I go to the core, I see the act of burning the man as a release of attachment to ego and possessions. I see the general success of the"lack of rules" as an indication that we have way, way too many rules (both internal and external) and could experience much more freedom with fewer rules and not face anarchy. I see amazing value in the power, strength and inspiration of community, at all scales, including "radical inclusiveness". And on and on.
Next we come to the question: "How to make a BM theme from these ideas?" How can we engage the default world and The American Dream without risking diffusion and loss of our radical intensity? I personally experienced many more "first time burners" this year who seemed to be observing but not engaging. Perhaps it was just too much for them to take in, but for the first time I had a few things disappear from my campsite. The myth of The American Dream no longer works for us, in fact, the entire mythology of middle America needs radical work. We are the myth-makers. Our personal stories are the myths we are living by.
David
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unjonharley
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living the dream, man, living the dream..
sitting here after a life time of hope,love and memoreis.. my kitty by my side listening to the tunes i love..
orphenages, living on the streets, farm kid, theif, work for a living, navy, roamer, biker, drunk, addict, robber, con, in love, kids, widowed, in love again, another kid, adopted two more, family togeather, 35 year career in art, love, widowed again, grand kids, great grand kids, retired, four walls make my home, warm, food, play, friends, health, on and on, and living the dream.
sitting here after a life time of hope,love and memoreis.. my kitty by my side listening to the tunes i love..
orphenages, living on the streets, farm kid, theif, work for a living, navy, roamer, biker, drunk, addict, robber, con, in love, kids, widowed, in love again, another kid, adopted two more, family togeather, 35 year career in art, love, widowed again, grand kids, great grand kids, retired, four walls make my home, warm, food, play, friends, health, on and on, and living the dream.
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ZaphodBurner
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Re: 2008 Theme - Food for thought and discussion
My grandfather--a cop and devout Catholic fluent in Latin--helped me buy my first electric guitar, and bought for me my first concert ticket, wherein Ozzy Osbourne busted up a giant cross onstage. He came to see me play.ludwigdesign wrote:Understanding the American Dream has been a lifelong study for me. I have been greatly influenced by it (as we all are) and yet never felt part of it.
My grandfather was also a prisoner of war at Stalag 17B, who had been tortured by the Gestapo and, two years later when they thought he was going to die, they left him at KZ Mauthausen. He lived, and witnessed, and fifty years later he died from a disease he contracted there, so in 1995 for our family it was like the fucking Nazis reach out from the grave and claimed another victim, another family. He raised me so it was very much like losing my father.
One time, he pulled me aside and said "Don't ever let anybody tell you that Freedom isn't the most important thing you have. Anybody who says so hasn't lost it." Meanwhile I have the burial flag and a heartbreaking funeral photo from my grandmother's FIRST husband who died in Germany the day before he was supposed to come home.
What I see and fear I'll see more of are a bunch of coddled, spoiled middle-class white people with enough disposable income to go screw off in a desert, who likely never suffered anything similar whining about how fucked up America is and how dumb the concept of the American Dream is. ...then going back to their homes, their jobs, the security of their default 'burbs or whatever country it is from which they managed to arrive to BRC.
Well, I'm writing all of their names on the temple next year, and if anybody feels they hate America or the theme enough that they don't want to go, or they just want to go and burn flags or something, see ya or not. Whatever. Fortunately you live in a world that doesn't enslave, torture or murder you for saying you hate you leader.
I'll be spending 2008 on the playa in communion with beloved elders who endured things most burners dare not imagine.
Anybody who doesn't understand the value of "the American Dream" never saw a concentration camp flashback or heard Taps at an old, unwilling hero's funeral. There's no way in hell my family could ever let somebody like Rove or Bush or Soros or anybody else sully that understanding.
Sorry if that seems a little sappy or gung ho, but it's honest. I don't like the theme much, but, I think I get it.
-zb
"The Red Baron is smart.. He never spends the whole night dancing and drinking root beer.. "-The WWI Flying Ace
excellent post.
America, and the American Dream is not about who's president, it's about all of our freedom loving asses.
It's about the weird and beautiful things we can do because some people a few hundred years ago said 'no more kings'.
and if you don't like the politicos, wait around a bit--like the weather, they're subject to change.
America, and the American Dream is not about who's president, it's about all of our freedom loving asses.
It's about the weird and beautiful things we can do because some people a few hundred years ago said 'no more kings'.
and if you don't like the politicos, wait around a bit--like the weather, they're subject to change.
"Life is like a box of razor blades. Sharp, shiny, and good for removing unwanted body hair"
It'd be interesting if next year the BMORG were to invite representatives from various groups from around the world to set up and display their own version/vision of the American Dream. Starting close to home it'd be quite interesting I think to ask members of the Northern Paiute tribe to discuss their history as an indigenous people and how the Dream has impacted them both positively and negatively. You could also have folks from various groups and tribes from Mexico, Central and South America show how they envision the Dream. I imagine there'd be a poignancy there that's yet to be discussed when talking about the sacrifices many of these people make in order to pay for a loved one to leave a village and make the often harrowing sojourn to the US for the purpose of a providing for a better life for them and their families. Naturally, this could be extended to groups and nationalities from around the world for whom this nebulous idea of has certain unfulfilled realities as well as payoffs.Well, that's part of the question, isn't? What indeed does it mean to them? I'd like to see their interpretation.
Desert dogs drink deep.
Ugh. I hope I haven't bitten off more than I can chew. 
I started a mental list (which it is becoming quickly obvious I need to get into a physical form), of what I would need to have my proposed flag burning camp work. Flags and burning material are the easy part. Getting it into the proper context, making people think beyond the initial reaction and getting them to the actual meaning is the tough part.
I need to get books to get excerpts from, music, etc.....
B.
I started a mental list (which it is becoming quickly obvious I need to get into a physical form), of what I would need to have my proposed flag burning camp work. Flags and burning material are the easy part. Getting it into the proper context, making people think beyond the initial reaction and getting them to the actual meaning is the tough part.I need to get books to get excerpts from, music, etc.....
B.
"Nothing is withheld from us which we have conceived to do.
Do things that have never been done."
--Russell Kirsch
Do things that have never been done."
--Russell Kirsch
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COPPERFISH
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[quote="lurker"]
It's about the weird and beautiful things we can do because some people a few hundred years ago said 'no more kings'.
quote]
And then they murdered and enslaved everyone for a few hundred years.
Our freedoms are as ill-gotten as they are hard won.
Shame and Pride. Different sides of the same coin.
It's about the weird and beautiful things we can do because some people a few hundred years ago said 'no more kings'.
quote]
And then they murdered and enslaved everyone for a few hundred years.
Our freedoms are as ill-gotten as they are hard won.
Shame and Pride. Different sides of the same coin.
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ZaphodBurner
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Pop quiz: How many hundreds of years are there between 1776 and when slavery ended in 1865?COPPERFISH wrote:lurker wrote:
It's about the weird and beautiful things we can do because some people a few hundred years ago said 'no more kings'.
quote]
And then they murdered and enslaved everyone for a few hundred years.
On the highway between Portland and Bend, Oregon, there's a monument near tribal lands that talks about how the ancient commerce trail was used by tribes to exchange shells and slaves. Many of the tribal Americans committed the same atrocities on each other as European immigrants inflicted upon them and each other. Torture, murder, kidnapping, rape, slavery, genocide... Tribal north Americans had perfected warfare -long- before America established itself. There's evidence to suggest they kicked the Viking's ass the hell back to Europe.
To say that ALL native Americans tribes murdered and enslaved everybody for centuries is to say that all european Americans did as well:
Equally naive and incorrect. Cynicism for human civilization needs to extend back to prehistory.
-zb
"The Red Baron is smart.. He never spends the whole night dancing and drinking root beer.. "-The WWI Flying Ace
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theCryptofishist
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We're talking the Wat Tyler Rebellion, I take it, because the Declaration is only a couple hundred years agolurker wrote:It's about the weird and beautiful things we can do because some people a few hundred years ago said 'no more kings'.
The Lady with a Lamprey
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
The theme sucks and is too specific. What the f*&^ is wrong with you? I am way too proud to attend an event called the American Dream. It actually takes away the purpose of the event. Dear BM and Mr Harvey. Change the F*&^'ing theme. Consider this Artica volunteer gone next year and thanks for the memories.
My other vehicle is a mutant.
Whose Dream Is This, Anyway?
the polling has suggested aversion to this theme, whereas this thread seems more accepting of it lately.
whether in the majority or not, i still feel what i feel. but reading this thread has helped me to better understand it. that is, the things which have most inspired me in life were generally not connected to the concepts of america or the american dream. that's why this theme has no real meaning for me.
i have been inspired by individuals of many nationalities, including americans. moreover, i have what some might construe as spiritual beliefs - and others would label blasphemy of one sort or another - that have far more influence over who i am as a person than does my nationality.
many have linked their happiness and success to the fact that they are american. yet, there are happy and successful people all over the world. i doubt if they link their success and happiness to america or the american dream. more likely, they link it to something closer to their own home and experience. perhaps some of them, like me, even link it to something far more radical than the nation they reside in. that is, to themselves and their family and friends.
at any rate, i think the disconnect between me and this theme may also have to do with my prior burning man experiences vis-a-vis my hopes for the next. it was never about politics or changing the world. for me it was a chance to get to know myself and others in an ultra-liberal environment. i came away each time inspired that people would put so much effort into something, just to make it beautiful and fun. i'm afraid the beauty and fun are going to get buried under the efforts to express the theme.
and yes, my journeys to burning man were part of my spiritual journey as well. letting the mocking begin...
at any rate, this theme doesn't resonate with any of that. and the ideas i'm seeing for art or camps tied to the theme don't strike me as anything i'd want or care to see. some of them strike me as rather callous. it's a generally uninspiring theme and i can't envision the event being all that great unless the theme is widely ignored.
bear in mind, i don't hate america. i just don't exclusively derive my inspiration from it or its dream. in fact, i barely derive inspiration from it at all. for that reason, i am indeed uninspired by this theme. it's about as inspiring to me as calling it 'the christian ideal' would be to a very sizable portion of attendees.
i can hear the arguments now....
what? you don't love christ? what's wrong with christ? and what's wrong with christian ideals? don't you want to see what other religions think of those ideals? they're awesome ideals! forgiveness....love your neighbor....don't stone women for adultery.....aren't those good and worthy ideals? why is it that everytime the word 'christian' is used everyone has some knee-jerk reaction and tears it down? what's wrong with associating good things with christianity for a change?
see? it's easy....take all the arguments for the theme and replace the word american with christian. damn good way to piss off a lot of people.
but my feelings, or theirs, don't have to mean anything to anyone, especially to those deciding and/or supporting the theme. even if i were speaking for ten thousand people, and we all said 'no thanks', and even if the art suffered or the vibe suffered for the lack of our presence, it would not matter. the show would still go on and some portion of the population would still have a good time. and even if the spirit of it was extinguished completely, people would flock to it just because of its lore.
as an american, i have no illusions about my importance, except to the degree that i am considered valuable by those in power (which is hardly at all, in my case). i know too that i can verbalize my feelings and reactions all i want to and that not everyone can. but i know that it's generally pointless to do so, even if i'm expressing a majority viewpoint. as an american, i know that, like most people in the world, there is precious little that can be done to change the minds of those in authority once they've dug their heels in. the game is as it's always been....if you can get the powerful to agree with you, only then will things change.
as an american, i've learned what so many around this globe have learned. you can either fight like hell for some measure of control, or you can just accept things as they are, even if you know it's all going down the drain. at least as an american i can complain loudly about what i don't like, as long as i don't mind the heat it brings to bear upon me.
but yes, i know my place. way down here, a complete unknown.
Burn The Theme!
whether in the majority or not, i still feel what i feel. but reading this thread has helped me to better understand it. that is, the things which have most inspired me in life were generally not connected to the concepts of america or the american dream. that's why this theme has no real meaning for me.
i have been inspired by individuals of many nationalities, including americans. moreover, i have what some might construe as spiritual beliefs - and others would label blasphemy of one sort or another - that have far more influence over who i am as a person than does my nationality.
many have linked their happiness and success to the fact that they are american. yet, there are happy and successful people all over the world. i doubt if they link their success and happiness to america or the american dream. more likely, they link it to something closer to their own home and experience. perhaps some of them, like me, even link it to something far more radical than the nation they reside in. that is, to themselves and their family and friends.
at any rate, i think the disconnect between me and this theme may also have to do with my prior burning man experiences vis-a-vis my hopes for the next. it was never about politics or changing the world. for me it was a chance to get to know myself and others in an ultra-liberal environment. i came away each time inspired that people would put so much effort into something, just to make it beautiful and fun. i'm afraid the beauty and fun are going to get buried under the efforts to express the theme.
and yes, my journeys to burning man were part of my spiritual journey as well. letting the mocking begin...
at any rate, this theme doesn't resonate with any of that. and the ideas i'm seeing for art or camps tied to the theme don't strike me as anything i'd want or care to see. some of them strike me as rather callous. it's a generally uninspiring theme and i can't envision the event being all that great unless the theme is widely ignored.
bear in mind, i don't hate america. i just don't exclusively derive my inspiration from it or its dream. in fact, i barely derive inspiration from it at all. for that reason, i am indeed uninspired by this theme. it's about as inspiring to me as calling it 'the christian ideal' would be to a very sizable portion of attendees.
i can hear the arguments now....
what? you don't love christ? what's wrong with christ? and what's wrong with christian ideals? don't you want to see what other religions think of those ideals? they're awesome ideals! forgiveness....love your neighbor....don't stone women for adultery.....aren't those good and worthy ideals? why is it that everytime the word 'christian' is used everyone has some knee-jerk reaction and tears it down? what's wrong with associating good things with christianity for a change?
see? it's easy....take all the arguments for the theme and replace the word american with christian. damn good way to piss off a lot of people.
but my feelings, or theirs, don't have to mean anything to anyone, especially to those deciding and/or supporting the theme. even if i were speaking for ten thousand people, and we all said 'no thanks', and even if the art suffered or the vibe suffered for the lack of our presence, it would not matter. the show would still go on and some portion of the population would still have a good time. and even if the spirit of it was extinguished completely, people would flock to it just because of its lore.
as an american, i have no illusions about my importance, except to the degree that i am considered valuable by those in power (which is hardly at all, in my case). i know too that i can verbalize my feelings and reactions all i want to and that not everyone can. but i know that it's generally pointless to do so, even if i'm expressing a majority viewpoint. as an american, i know that, like most people in the world, there is precious little that can be done to change the minds of those in authority once they've dug their heels in. the game is as it's always been....if you can get the powerful to agree with you, only then will things change.
as an american, i've learned what so many around this globe have learned. you can either fight like hell for some measure of control, or you can just accept things as they are, even if you know it's all going down the drain. at least as an american i can complain loudly about what i don't like, as long as i don't mind the heat it brings to bear upon me.
but yes, i know my place. way down here, a complete unknown.
Burn The Theme!
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CapSmashy
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Is the theme the only reason you attend the event?Oreally? wrote:The theme sucks and is too specific. What the f*&^ is wrong with you? I am way too proud to attend an event called the American Dream. It actually takes away the purpose of the event. Dear BM and Mr Harvey. Change the F*&^'ing theme. Consider this Artica volunteer gone next year and thanks for the memories.
As we have seen from just a small sampling of the ideas posted here, the theme is hardly "specific". The only thing limiting ideas for this theme would be the imagination of the kneejerk responder.
And I will be sure to pack extra ice for next year since Artica will obviously collapse and die without your contribution.
[quote="Kinetic V"]I'm thinking everyone needs to look past the headline and seriously read the theme description.
[quote]In 2008, the Burning Man will stand atop a high-rise tower. Instead of windows, this edifice will feature images of flags that represent the countries of the world. Ranging from Canada to Chad, from Brazil to Burundi, from Vatican City to the Republic of China, these 244 symbols will shine in the night, gleaming like cut gems upon the surface of a jewel box. [b]The United States of America will be among them.[/b] Each country can be said to represent a dream no less radiant or precious than the rest. Each nation may be viewed as a container of identity; yet each one can be said to be a glimmering illusion, an arbitrary entity defined by boundaries on a map. All of us are immigrants to Black Rock City.[/quote]
My intrepretation is that there is room for counterpoints that would reflect the dreams of other countries. Rather than squawk about it being the American dream, here is a chance to share a Portugese theme, an Australian, Argentinian or Italian theme.... America is a melting pot, Larry is offering people the chance to highlight the dreams of people and countries prior to being put into that pot to melt and mix. In short...this theme has expandability....why is everyone bitching when there's so much potential here to work with?
I just don't understand the fuss...there's visions to be presented, statements to be made....let's get busy people.[/quote]
That is a reasonable point. I have been chastened gently. :oops:
[quote]In 2008, the Burning Man will stand atop a high-rise tower. Instead of windows, this edifice will feature images of flags that represent the countries of the world. Ranging from Canada to Chad, from Brazil to Burundi, from Vatican City to the Republic of China, these 244 symbols will shine in the night, gleaming like cut gems upon the surface of a jewel box. [b]The United States of America will be among them.[/b] Each country can be said to represent a dream no less radiant or precious than the rest. Each nation may be viewed as a container of identity; yet each one can be said to be a glimmering illusion, an arbitrary entity defined by boundaries on a map. All of us are immigrants to Black Rock City.[/quote]
My intrepretation is that there is room for counterpoints that would reflect the dreams of other countries. Rather than squawk about it being the American dream, here is a chance to share a Portugese theme, an Australian, Argentinian or Italian theme.... America is a melting pot, Larry is offering people the chance to highlight the dreams of people and countries prior to being put into that pot to melt and mix. In short...this theme has expandability....why is everyone bitching when there's so much potential here to work with?
I just don't understand the fuss...there's visions to be presented, statements to be made....let's get busy people.[/quote]
That is a reasonable point. I have been chastened gently. :oops:
"Rhythm is both a song's manacle, and it's Demonic charge."
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Ugly Dougly
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I looked at this--
And was surprised that you didn't see the difference.
While Christianity has it's own 'radical inclusiveness'--they'll accept anybody who wants to be Christian, what they're 'including' those people in is a refutation of independent freedom.
America, for all it's flaws, even now, in the era of Bush, allows and even encourages independent freedom.
No belief systen is required for acceptence--why, I believe that whatever beliefs one holds, one can find, in America, others who would be compatible.
Even those who advocate the overthrow of the entire American system walk around freely expressing their ideas.
Consider that, as I said before, it is Americas devotion to the idea of free expression that was the soil from which the seed of all that we call 'counterculture' sprouted.
It is that type of thing I speak of when I talk about things that we are so accustomed to as to be blind to.
How much of what you can do, what you can be, read, have, see is the result of freedoms that surround you that you see as your natural right--but are actually hard won?
Canadians and Europeans do not enjoy the level of freedom of speech that we have here--even with the Patriot Act. And they're among the freest.
And then you say your voice doesn't matter--after two of the closest elections in history, after so many regional elections coming down to individual votes.
Americans can change the course of their government every four years--and they have. From Carter to Reagan, from Bush to Clinton. We get governments that are diametrically opposed to the ones that preced them all the time. And you do that.
Of course, you can believe that it's all rigged--but that's not America, that's criminal.
And you CAN change the minds of those in power--even when they've got their heels dug in. You may not like the recent defeat of Comprehensive Immigration Reform, but that was the result of the people screaming at the president, the congress and the media. People spoke their minds--and the powerful were forced to listen.
America isn't politics, it's people. Your dreams are American dreans. Your wants and desores and hopes are just as valid as whatever fool thinks he/she/it is most powerful in this country.
That's a big part of us.
I recently read an old etiquette guide from some European country. In the chapter on travel it spoke of dealing with Americans. The biggest thing was American refusal to accept class distinctions. They noted that Americans will simply speak, without regard to precedence. It was warned that this was not deliberate rudeness, but an example of our 'national custom'.
So many who are complaining about this theme have allowed others to take America away from them, or seal America off from them.
Don't allow it.
WE are the People.
what? you don't love christ? what's wrong with christ? and what's wrong with christian ideals? don't you want to see what other religions think of those ideals? they're awesome ideals! forgiveness....love your neighbor....don't stone women for adultery.....aren't those good and worthy ideals? why is it that everytime the word 'christian' is used everyone has some knee-jerk reaction and tears it down? what's wrong with associating good things with christianity for a change?
see? it's easy....take all the arguments for the theme and replace the word american with christian. damn good way to piss off a lot of people.
And was surprised that you didn't see the difference.
While Christianity has it's own 'radical inclusiveness'--they'll accept anybody who wants to be Christian, what they're 'including' those people in is a refutation of independent freedom.
America, for all it's flaws, even now, in the era of Bush, allows and even encourages independent freedom.
No belief systen is required for acceptence--why, I believe that whatever beliefs one holds, one can find, in America, others who would be compatible.
Even those who advocate the overthrow of the entire American system walk around freely expressing their ideas.
As an American, how can you be sure that things that you take for granted, things that you are so inured to you don't even see them, aren't underlying the things that inspire you?whether in the majority or not, i still feel what i feel. but reading this thread has helped me to better understand it. that is, the things which have most inspired me in life were generally not connected to the concepts of america or the american dream. that's why this theme has no real meaning for me.
Consider that, as I said before, it is Americas devotion to the idea of free expression that was the soil from which the seed of all that we call 'counterculture' sprouted.
My spiritual beliefs are quite definately blasphemy to several other faiths. And they are closer to me that anything I consider 'patriotism'. But they are also the product of freedoms that exist here.i have been inspired by individuals of many nationalities, including americans. moreover, i have what some might construe as spiritual beliefs - and others would label blasphemy of one sort or another - that have far more influence over who i am as a person than does my nationality.
It is that type of thing I speak of when I talk about things that we are so accustomed to as to be blind to.
Most people link their personal success and happiness to themselves, and their family and friends, that is hardly a radical idea. In fact, it is one of the reasons you find it hard to attribute any of your success to the environment you grew up in. We look to our personal lives, to our personal goals, achievements, aquaintances. We've stopped, by and large, looking at the milieu against which those lives are led.many have linked their happiness and success to the fact that they are american. yet, there are happy and successful people all over the world. i doubt if they link their success and happiness to america or the american dream. more likely, they link it to something closer to their own home and experience. perhaps some of them, like me, even link it to something far more radical than the nation they reside in. that is, to themselves and their family and friends.
How much of what you can do, what you can be, read, have, see is the result of freedoms that surround you that you see as your natural right--but are actually hard won?
Canadians and Europeans do not enjoy the level of freedom of speech that we have here--even with the Patriot Act. And they're among the freest.
And then you say your voice doesn't matter--after two of the closest elections in history, after so many regional elections coming down to individual votes.
Americans can change the course of their government every four years--and they have. From Carter to Reagan, from Bush to Clinton. We get governments that are diametrically opposed to the ones that preced them all the time. And you do that.
Of course, you can believe that it's all rigged--but that's not America, that's criminal.
And you CAN change the minds of those in power--even when they've got their heels dug in. You may not like the recent defeat of Comprehensive Immigration Reform, but that was the result of the people screaming at the president, the congress and the media. People spoke their minds--and the powerful were forced to listen.
America isn't politics, it's people. Your dreams are American dreans. Your wants and desores and hopes are just as valid as whatever fool thinks he/she/it is most powerful in this country.
That's a big part of us.
I recently read an old etiquette guide from some European country. In the chapter on travel it spoke of dealing with Americans. The biggest thing was American refusal to accept class distinctions. They noted that Americans will simply speak, without regard to precedence. It was warned that this was not deliberate rudeness, but an example of our 'national custom'.
So many who are complaining about this theme have allowed others to take America away from them, or seal America off from them.
Don't allow it.
WE are the People.
"Life is like a box of razor blades. Sharp, shiny, and good for removing unwanted body hair"
Accessorize Your Rights!
if this is a call for people of all nations to share their dreams, then why is it NECCESSARY to attach the word 'american' to the word 'dream' in the theme?
the only reason i can see is because it's already been done and the powers that be don't want to say 'oops'. either that, or this is a very deliberate attempt to promote america. or....
as for optimistic visions of what america could be, i'm all for them. but to the degree they are identified as american, they will also appear as patriotic - thus in effect advertising a particular political entity.
it's the cynical, pessimistic visions that worry me the most. apparently it worries the powers that be as well, given they saw fit to try to talk people out of heading in that direction when they announced the theme.
since when have americans - let alone burners - politely done what was asked of them merely because the powers that be requested it? enforcement has always been a necessary component of compliance.
america is a defined geographical and political entity. it has borders and a government with specific policies. it is not perfect, not by a long shot. thus, the mere use of the word 'american' invites polemical thinking. that's a reality that cannot be wished or cajoled away.
my greatest hope is that this theme will be as roundly ignored as most of the others (especially after 'beyond belief'). not because i don't love america or think that some of its values are on target, but because i don't want to see the event politicized.
but that's just me. others, perhaps out of the frustration of knowing how politically powerless they truly are, might see it as a way to make their political views known. those are the displays i'm worried about.
there will always be supporters of just about any idea that one might have. like politicians, the powers that be in this case can listen to their supporters and assume there must be something quite wrong with those who disagree, even if they represent the majority. they have that right - it's their party.
by coming up with the most poorly received theme yet, and sticking to their guns, they are conveying the idea that they are in control. perhaps this is a way to shatter, or at least mitigate, the mythos of burning man being a place of transcendent unity where the event is defined by the participants and not by some corporate board or political administration. either that, or they really want us to show our independence by ignoring the theme, thus promoting the mythos even more.
it's a brilliant choice for a theme, but only because it is so paradoxical. but it runs the danger of being taken seriously.
for many of us, our dream is not an american dream at all. i'm an american who has dreams of what the future could be, but i refuse to be defined as merely american. thus, my dreams cannot be defined as such either. it is easy to imagine that i could have the exact same dreams if i were living in russia, or germany, or even cuba. forgetting about what others think, i feel that my dreams are limited if i attach a specific nationality or religion to them.
us and them....now THAT would be good theme!
and yes, i like chocolate chip cookies. but if i eat too many, i get sick. and so, i generally prefer something a little less rich.
also, i don't like apple pie at all. and baseball is pretty boring (not to mention too damned awash in money...but still, go Indians!!). as for mom, well....she's okay, but i'm not deluded into thinking she's the best mom that could ever be. in fact, she's got some pretty serious flaws (some of which i inherited). also, i don't have a house, a wife, 2.5 kids or even a car. as for a career.....ha!
i'm living my own dream - period.
so....who's going to be chairing the Subcommitee on UnThematic Activities? i'd be happy to name names, if it will keep me out of trouble!
----
btw...i don't take this stuff quite as seriously as it might seem. but i am in the camp of playa-theme haters, so i'm just trying to offer cogent arguments on their (our) behalf. i hope i'm doing a better job than merely saying "this theme sucks....i'm never coming back. wahhhh!"
and yes, i really do worry about the event being politicized, even as i suspect that it is too big and too liberated to fall victim to something as silly as a questionable theme. ultimately, whether i come or not depends a lot more on whether i have the time. and whether i have a good time or not, i realize, depends largely on me.
paul addis said we don't write enough anymore. this theme has sure got me back to writing! that man needs to be imprisoned!!
the only reason i can see is because it's already been done and the powers that be don't want to say 'oops'. either that, or this is a very deliberate attempt to promote america. or....
as for optimistic visions of what america could be, i'm all for them. but to the degree they are identified as american, they will also appear as patriotic - thus in effect advertising a particular political entity.
it's the cynical, pessimistic visions that worry me the most. apparently it worries the powers that be as well, given they saw fit to try to talk people out of heading in that direction when they announced the theme.
since when have americans - let alone burners - politely done what was asked of them merely because the powers that be requested it? enforcement has always been a necessary component of compliance.
america is a defined geographical and political entity. it has borders and a government with specific policies. it is not perfect, not by a long shot. thus, the mere use of the word 'american' invites polemical thinking. that's a reality that cannot be wished or cajoled away.
my greatest hope is that this theme will be as roundly ignored as most of the others (especially after 'beyond belief'). not because i don't love america or think that some of its values are on target, but because i don't want to see the event politicized.
but that's just me. others, perhaps out of the frustration of knowing how politically powerless they truly are, might see it as a way to make their political views known. those are the displays i'm worried about.
there will always be supporters of just about any idea that one might have. like politicians, the powers that be in this case can listen to their supporters and assume there must be something quite wrong with those who disagree, even if they represent the majority. they have that right - it's their party.
by coming up with the most poorly received theme yet, and sticking to their guns, they are conveying the idea that they are in control. perhaps this is a way to shatter, or at least mitigate, the mythos of burning man being a place of transcendent unity where the event is defined by the participants and not by some corporate board or political administration. either that, or they really want us to show our independence by ignoring the theme, thus promoting the mythos even more.
it's a brilliant choice for a theme, but only because it is so paradoxical. but it runs the danger of being taken seriously.
for many of us, our dream is not an american dream at all. i'm an american who has dreams of what the future could be, but i refuse to be defined as merely american. thus, my dreams cannot be defined as such either. it is easy to imagine that i could have the exact same dreams if i were living in russia, or germany, or even cuba. forgetting about what others think, i feel that my dreams are limited if i attach a specific nationality or religion to them.
us and them....now THAT would be good theme!
and yes, i like chocolate chip cookies. but if i eat too many, i get sick. and so, i generally prefer something a little less rich.
also, i don't like apple pie at all. and baseball is pretty boring (not to mention too damned awash in money...but still, go Indians!!). as for mom, well....she's okay, but i'm not deluded into thinking she's the best mom that could ever be. in fact, she's got some pretty serious flaws (some of which i inherited). also, i don't have a house, a wife, 2.5 kids or even a car. as for a career.....ha!
i'm living my own dream - period.
so....who's going to be chairing the Subcommitee on UnThematic Activities? i'd be happy to name names, if it will keep me out of trouble!
----
btw...i don't take this stuff quite as seriously as it might seem. but i am in the camp of playa-theme haters, so i'm just trying to offer cogent arguments on their (our) behalf. i hope i'm doing a better job than merely saying "this theme sucks....i'm never coming back. wahhhh!"
and yes, i really do worry about the event being politicized, even as i suspect that it is too big and too liberated to fall victim to something as silly as a questionable theme. ultimately, whether i come or not depends a lot more on whether i have the time. and whether i have a good time or not, i realize, depends largely on me.
paul addis said we don't write enough anymore. this theme has sure got me back to writing! that man needs to be imprisoned!!
Because it's not.if this is a call for people of all nations to share their dreams, then why is it NECCESSARY to attach the word 'american' to the word 'dream' in the theme?
It's more a call for people to express their ideas about the American Dream.
Some will wallow in tired political rhetoric--the kind that colors your posts on this subject.
And some will understand that it refers to something besides politics, that the ideas behind America can lead to some great, strange, interesting things.
And some people will do whatever they want(and some of those will understand that doing whaever they want is PART of the American Dream).
And some will wander around. Some will complain, some will gawp, and some will be so high they won't be sure what they're looking at...or even if they're moving...
"Life is like a box of razor blades. Sharp, shiny, and good for removing unwanted body hair"
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ZaphodBurner
- Posts: 1339
- Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:05 pm
- Burning Since: 2004
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- Location: Portland, OR
- Contact:
Re: Accessorize Your Rights!
That's my bet.ravenluv wrote: why is it NECCESSARY to attach the word 'american' to the word 'dream' in the theme?
the only reason i can see is because it's already been done and the powers that be don't want to say 'oops'.
I wonder what it would cost to make the perimeter a vast white picket fence.
-zb
"The Red Baron is smart.. He never spends the whole night dancing and drinking root beer.. "-The WWI Flying Ace
I don't know, but it would be an improvement over the traditional orange plastic trash fence! (And would work well with the theme.)I wonder what it would cost to make the perimeter a vast white picket fence.
B.
"Nothing is withheld from us which we have conceived to do.
Do things that have never been done."
--Russell Kirsch
Do things that have never been done."
--Russell Kirsch
The only bright spot about this theme is...
I'm looking forward to seeing several hundred women looking like Wonder Woman in RW&B. Except I hope they all have the decency to paint on the uniform instead of wearing one. But keep the boots. Those are sexy and necessary. If nothing else, just make sure you lose your tops for fuck sake!
I'm looking forward to seeing several hundred women looking like Wonder Woman in RW&B. Except I hope they all have the decency to paint on the uniform instead of wearing one. But keep the boots. Those are sexy and necessary. If nothing else, just make sure you lose your tops for fuck sake!
Those that do not fight tyranny deserve it, for complacency grants license to the oppressors. -Aramis
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ZaphodBurner
- Posts: 1339
- Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:05 pm
- Burning Since: 2004
- Camp Name: The Green Hour 2012 - 9:00 & D
- Location: Portland, OR
- Contact:
If Wonder Woman comes to Burning Man it's a good thing she has an invisible jet, or the burner-hippies and Berkeley types would think the military was doing mock strafing runs again.ecomain wrote:The only bright spot about this theme is...
I'm looking forward to seeing several hundred women looking like Wonder Woman in RW&B. Except I hope they all have the decency to paint on the uniform instead of wearing one. But keep the boots. Those are sexy and necessary. If nothing else, just make sure you lose your tops for fuck sake!
*dives for cover*-zb
"The Red Baron is smart.. He never spends the whole night dancing and drinking root beer.. "-The WWI Flying Ace
Only problem is ..... it might not serve its actual purpose..BAS wrote:I don't know, but it would be an improvement over the traditional orange plastic trash fence! (And would work well with the theme.)I wonder what it would cost to make the perimeter a vast white picket fence.
B.
You call it malt liquor, I call it breakfast.
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CapSmashy
- Posts: 1917
- Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:29 pm
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Re: Accessorize Your Rights!
[quote="ravenluv"]if this is a call for people of all nations to share their dreams, then why is it NECCESSARY to attach the word 'american' to the word 'dream' in the theme?
/quote]
I agree that it is totally not necessary to say "American" in the theme name. If the MAN is going to stand on top of a pedestal decorated with flags from nations around the world, then why does this have to be an "American" dream?? Doesn't that imply more of a World Dream?
This year's theme should be about people all over the WORLD coming together. Every nation and culture has beautiful people, and some great things to share.
I strongly disagree with this year's theme. It has political overtones, and the focus is all wrong. This year's theme should focus on Everybody's Dreams, not just the American one. How arrogant to suggest that the American way is the best!
/quote]
I agree that it is totally not necessary to say "American" in the theme name. If the MAN is going to stand on top of a pedestal decorated with flags from nations around the world, then why does this have to be an "American" dream?? Doesn't that imply more of a World Dream?
This year's theme should be about people all over the WORLD coming together. Every nation and culture has beautiful people, and some great things to share.
I strongly disagree with this year's theme. It has political overtones, and the focus is all wrong. This year's theme should focus on Everybody's Dreams, not just the American one. How arrogant to suggest that the American way is the best!