Support for Paul

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:09 am

dicky box!

speaking of, does anyone know if there are transcripts from his speaking arrangements he did afterwards? there were some short things he wrote that were interesting and always wanted to read more about it.

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:16 am

exactly what Ron said...

twenty years in prison? Yeah, right, murder and rape get less time than that

Dicky Box! Hell Yeah! Thats the punishment/reward

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:42 am

let it go aready,, he will come out smelling like a rose..

he just has to appear in Carson City.. those rednecks hate burning man..

if he makes a stink he will join the fudge packers union.. at least he gets three hots and a cot..

I would say a trip to the nut ward..

if he falls into goe W s brown shirts he may get a free trip to Cuba..

anyway ya all have beaten this thing to death.. so knock it the fuck off..

vic · Post by **vic** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:26 am

As I understand it, the early burn of the man was a symbolic act - a protest against the more structured, planned, less spontaneous nature of the current event.
If that is the case, I must say that this protest was not very creative. Burning someone elses art early is the best that this guy could do? ThatÂ´s about as creative as the stereotyped image of the overweight middle aged guy wearting a T shirt and no pants.
Why didnÂ´t this guy and his friends build their own art outside of the BmorgÂ´s review, make it a stinging attack on the B morg or even on St. Larry himself, put it up as a protest, burn it without "permission", make fun of all of us fools who enjoy the current version of the event, show us how to do it right.
Show us something new and creative.

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:45 am

spectabillis wrote:how about directly answering the question - you think he should get twenty years in prison?

I don't think he should get twenty years in prison. But if they don't do something, I predict there will be a lot of people's art torched by mid-week next year.

In fact, I bet there will be more than a few Paul Addis wannabees on the playa by the end of the week next year.

I think he should get an arson conviction on his record, a year, and a reasonable monetary fine.

-zb

COPPERFISH · Post by **COPPERFISH** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:33 am

All our lives hang by a thread. Now we've got a man
waiting for sentence. But ain't it the truth?
You take your chances with the law.
Justice is only a roll of the dice. . .
. . .a flip of the coin,
a turn of the wheel.

-Dr. Dealgood - Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome
_____________________________________________________

_______________________________________________________
I vote Playa Justice. A a big wheel with all the different punishments.
Dickie Box
Thunderdome Match
Dunking Tank
Gulag

misfit · Post by **misfit** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:35 am

>>>>he should get an arson conviction on his record, a year, and a reasonable monetary fine. <<<<

thats exactly what a federal lawyer whos following the case predicted,,, " 1 year county jail time, 3 years probation, fine, and restitution. the 1 year jail time would probably get knocked down to 3 months actually servered. ".....

Wrath7sins · Post by **Wrath7sins** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:29 pm

[quote="itwazed"]Paul Addis should be fined the Price of each and every ticket minus his own that was bought for this years burn....and then he should be forced to spend his next burn working with the DPW on 12 hour shifts...the punishment should fit the crime.[/quote]

I had the exact same thought.

[quote="Tiahaar"]or better yet, this 'paul' fellow gets to spend the next twenty BurningMan events on-playa locked in the Dicky box for a week.[/quote]

Lol, the DickeyBox. Come to think of it, what if BRC *did* have a jail with a holding cell? A place to stick drunken artcar operators while they detox and whatnot? Then again, it would prolly become a game for some participants.

[quote="COPPERFISH"]I vote Playa Justice. A a big wheel with all the different punishments.
Dickie Box
Thunderdome Match
Dunking Tank
Gulag [/quote]

Gulag! (with the head from the old man) Copperfish gets mad points for the MadMax reference. ^__^

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:19 pm

spectabillis wrote:dicky box!

speaking of, does anyone know if there are transcripts from his speaking arrangements he did afterwards? there were some short things he wrote that were interesting and always wanted to read more about it.

Dicky gave me my first hug at the Greeters station late Friday evening around 3AM or so. I got to ask him a question or two, it was nice meeting him.

Dicky box is NOT a punishment.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:32 pm

he stole my job!

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:43 pm

i wont go over the "single match" theory again, or the three hippies near the sandy knoll, but i just keep picturing poor prometheus, bound, for 20 years, in a nevada prison, where you cant get bacon because they dont serve pork products because it's easier to feed the muslim population, which is mostly black, and i know this because i spent 58 days at the involuntary spa in lovelock, but i digress...

dont eat the "nevada chicken" paul, it's fucking PIGEON...i had thge shits for days...it is NOT QUAIL, DUDE, TRUST ME...nor is it a cornish game hen...

wild pigeon....anyways, where was i....oh yeah...prometheus...nevada...

right..Liver being torn out on a daily basis....,

metaphsyically, this is what paul is about to endure.

prison sucks ass, and smells like it too...

anyone who has even just SPENT THE NIGHT in jail knows it's one place you dont want to go back to.....unless you like institutional food, and michener novels, but i digress again...

you cant even smoke anymore....as soon as i got out...i ran to the safeway, bought some whisky, some gummy bears and a pack of marb reds...i consumed all three at once, and almost passed out....it was that good...

i guess i'm trying to say, that yes, this young cowboy has done wrong, but do you really think the punishment fits the crime?

i have my doubts....

and i pity the poor bastard, fox TV sucks, and thats all they ever want to watch in jail, the only time i could watch PBS was when i convinced them that Frank Lloyd Wright was a Nazi....

he was you know...

[CDS] topher · Post by **[CDS] topher** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:29 am

OK, so I'll admit admit to having served some unspecified amount of time in a county jail long prior to my first ever BM attendance (1997 - ten years, *twelve* burns, since I was an eyewitness this year's st!).

And in light of this conversation, I've been doing some thinking.

We put kids in jail for decades for selling a couple grams of crack. We (in some states) do our best to ignore the sale of pot. We let obvious murderes walk free on what are euphemphistically called 'technicalities'. We kill people for killing people (eye for an eye leads to....where?).

Addis appears to be, almost certainly, guilty of endangerment, arson, stupidity (I've heard rumours that when he was aprehended he was carrying ~2lbs of homemmade napalm? Hearsay, but still...). He appears to be guilty of a lot of reprehensible things, and it is my newly considered position that he should a) serve REAL time (not, perhaps 20 years...but not three months, either), pay restitution - not only to BMOrg, but to US), and serve a LONG probation.

But I worry about that restitution being done AT bm. He'd simply be garnering more fame, more attention, etc., which is clearly what he seeks. Let him spend 120 days picking up trash along I-80 under the watchful eye of a guard with a gun.

Moreover, he should a) be forced to help build next year's man....and then b) denied entrance to see the fruits of his labors.

And then be denied entry ever again.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:14 pm

endangerment:

there are many people operating bar cars while drinking and serving others drinks, people jump on and off of them, people ride bikes around open flame pits, crowds of people collect around fire sculptures with no safety barriers, some fires are in the middle of sound camps with people dancing around them, people jump through and play with the public burn platforms while throwing various items in the fire, the burninator x has massive flame cannons intended for people to get right next to them, people like me carry personal flame effect units, there are literally thousands of poi performers... etc.. in an event where a good portion of people are drunk, stoned, or tripping there is risk. burningman is not inherently safe, its not intended to be.

if you hold paul addis accountable for endangering the safety of people then you must apply that to other situations that put people at risk even if no one is hurt - and thats not possible.

Jordan 10-E · Post by **Jordan 10-E** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:23 pm

spectabillis wrote:endangerment:

there are many people operating bar cars while drinking and serving others drinks, people jump on and off of them, people ride bikes around open flame pits, crowds of people collect around fire sculptures with no safety barriers, some fires are in the middle of sound camps with people dancing around them, people jump through and play with the public burn platforms while throwing various items in the fire, the burninator x has massive flame cannons intended for people to get right next to them, people like me carry personal flame effect units, there are literally thousands of poi performers... etc.. in an event where a good portion of people are drunk, stoned, or tripping there is risk. burningman is not inherently safe, its not intended to be.

if you hold paul addis accountable for endangering the safety of people then you must apply that to other situations that put people at risk even if no one is hurt - and thats not possible.

You still don't get it.

[CDS] topher · Post by **[CDS] topher** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:45 pm

spectabillis wrote:endangerment:

there are many people operating bar cars while drinking and serving others drinks, people jump on and off of them, people ride bikes around open flame pits, crowds of people collect around fire sculptures with no safety barriers, some fires are in the middle of sound camps with people dancing around them, people jump through and play with the public burn platforms while throwing various items in the fire, the burninator x has massive flame cannons intended for people to get right next to them, people like me carry personal flame effect units, there are literally thousands of poi performers... etc.. in an event where a good portion of people are drunk, stoned, or tripping there is risk. burningman is not inherently safe, its not intended to be.

if you hold paul addis accountable for endangering the safety of people then you must apply that to other situations that put people at risk even if no one is hurt - and thats not possible.

In one context - that of normal playa excursions - people EXPECT the dangers around them (or do after their virgin year), and can take approriate steps. In the case of Addiss' actions, they were operating/existing in a more controlled, more predictable (note that I say more predictable) environment, and had a reasonable expectation of their lives not being placed in sudden danger by the actions of a narcissistic, attention-seeking wanker.

goathead · Post by **goathead** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:47 pm

if you hold paul addis accountable

Last I heard it is the Feds, State of Nevada holding him accountable.
Lots of people take the risk and pay the, Stupid Tax, every year.
Why should he be any different?

If he didn't want to take the chance of having to deal with the outcome
he should have kept the matches in HIS POCKET....

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:57 pm

spectabillis wrote:endangerment:

there are many people operating bar cars while drinking and serving others drinks, people jump on and off of them, people ride bikes around open flame pits, crowds of people collect around fire sculptures with no safety barriers, some fires are in the middle of sound camps with people dancing around them, people jump through and play with the public burn platforms while throwing various items in the fire, the burninator x has massive flame cannons intended for people to get right next to them, people like me carry personal flame effect units, there are literally thousands of poi performers... etc.. in an event where a good portion of people are drunk, stoned, or tripping there is risk. burningman is not inherently safe, its not intended to be.

if you hold paul addis accountable for endangering the safety of people then you must apply that to other situations that put people at risk even if no one is hurt - and thats not possible.

Is this what you would call a red herring arguement?

I'll try to illustrate the difference though I think your mind is made up about the matter.

1) Drinking and driving is supposed to be verboten and as I understand it from a few rangers that enforcement will be in the form of DUIs etc. Since I never personally read the agreement between the LLC/ORG and the BLM I cannot confirm but it makes sense. I also heard that the "limo" policy type shit for passengers does not apply and there is to be no drinking period. Maybe a Ranger can swing by to confirm or deny what I heard in Gigs this past year.

2) People risking themselves near fire.. well thats alot different than some a-hole lightin shit up thats not supposed to be lit yet when its over your head. As for safety barriers.. when I went to Dance Dance Immolation there was a fair amount of safety precautions taken. I would not have gone into it if I didn't feel that the owners/operators had their shit together. The biggie here is choice. You have a choice to get into that fire suit and try to dance while getting torched alive. Same goes for watching fire performers.. you can always walk away. Paul gave nobody any choices.

3) Flame cannons etc.. same deal. When Cheesy Bob let me use his fire cannon I operated said fire cannon in a safe manner saluting art cars whenever possible. When folks that seemed capable wanted to pull the lever they were shown how to do it and got to participate of their own free will. Nobody was forced to turn the lever and the cannon was never fired towards anyone to endanger them. The same is also true for the fella with that cool ass bike with the flame horns that let me play near the treehouse. He offered for me to play, I did not use the effect without permission.

Again.. simple common sense and respect for others is what we're on about. What Paul did was worng pure and simple. Even at an event with little to no rules.. if he wanted to play with fire there are many things he could have burned. As you yourself pointed out.. there are many fire installions, performers, etc most of which one can play with if they just ask nicely. I'm sure he knew what he did was wrong since he worked with the crew previously. He was also an attorney at some point, not sure if he still practices law but that will also have a bearing on his judgement I'm sure. Paul et al have had a problem with the ORG for years it seems and this was not the way to handle it.

Nobody is trying to say burningman is safe.. but this stunt could seriously cause further restrictions in the next round of contract/talks/negotiation with BLM.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:26 pm

no my mind isnt made up in that ultimate sense, but i still dont think it was dangerous as most are playing it up to be. i see people still being angry and attempting to use various things to express and justify it.

people moved out of the way. no one under it has come foreward to say that they thought their lives were at serious risk, otherwise someone would file a civil lawsuit against him.

people are surrounded by various dangers at burningman and so far we have been listing and agreeing on quite a few examples. even though it may have been unexpected it definately wasnt that much of a shock. he is meant to burn and everyone expects that, if there was surprise it was due to the timing.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:48 pm

Are we positing that it was too difficult for a current/former attorney-at-law to read the back of the ticket, the Survival Guide, and the 4x8 billboards on the Gate road, which all say you must obey the law wrt fireworks & other agency-enforced rules for the event?

The Man wasn't meant to burn at that time or in that manner, no more than First Camp, or the lantern spires, or the various temples, or anything else people may burn in whole or in part during or after the event.

And I believe the alleged perp helped build the Man once or twice, so not only was he violating legal ethics, he knowingly violated some of the basic ethics of *any* staged art event. Not to mention the Code of Hammurabi.

[CDS] topher · Post by **[CDS] topher** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:50 pm

spectabillis wrote:no my mind isnt made up in that ultimate sense, but i still dont think it was dangerous as most are playing it up to be.

Were you there, physically, watching?

I was. It was utterly dangerous, destructive, and put lives (not to mention valuable art) at risk.

I WAS THERE, BEGINNING TO END. If you weren't, you're just justifying the actions of someone you agree with.

Digital-Dragonfly · Post by **Digital-Dragonfly** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:37 pm

In all the threads / discussions I have read, claims are made that PA warned the people in the area ahead of time; and his supporters keep pointing to this in his statement to show he's really not a bad guy.

My question is... has anyone who was warned before the fire was set come forward to support this claim?

(inquiring minds want to know)

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:19 pm

Okay, I'm too lazy to wade through all these posts.

Does said support lift and separate?

Kinetik V · Post by **Kinetik V** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:26 pm

I'd be hesitant to post anything if I saw what happened. After seeing all the legal maneuvering and litigation issues that the Kathy Lampman incident created which included what appeared to be attorneys trawling this board looking for defendants, splashing comments about I saw this or heard that could come back and bite you in the derriere.

With that in mind this is one year I'm glad I didn't get to BRC until Wednesday.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:07 pm

Paul Addis is a dick.

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:24 pm

[CDS] topher wrote:If you weren't, you're just justifying the actions of someone you agree with.

why do you think i am justifying it? i'm not, and thats one of the biggest ways i tell people have lost most rationality over it due to outrage and anger.

were there people trapped inside the pavillian? if not, please explain how it started and how the people moved from under it because i think you are the first eye-witness to post that they watched him start the fire. did you warn people?

Bambi of Finland · Post by **Bambi of Finland** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:50 pm

I don't support him and hope he gets what the law says he should get.
Check this out: http://home.comcast.net/~playaitch/b7mana.htm

Look closely, about halfway down the page.

Jordan 10-E · Post by **Jordan 10-E** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:00 pm

spectabillis wrote:no my mind isnt made up in that ultimate sense, but i still dont think it was dangerous as most are playing it up to be. i see people still being angry and attempting to use various things to express and justify it.

people moved out of the way. no one under it has come foreward to say that they thought their lives were at serious risk, otherwise someone would file a civil lawsuit against him.

people are surrounded by various dangers at burningman and so far we have been listing and agreeing on quite a few examples. even though it may have been unexpected it definately wasnt that much of a shock. he is meant to burn and everyone expects that, if there was surprise it was due to the timing.

You still don't get it. We are the ones not being "rational"?

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:02 pm

why? doesnt matter since he already admitted to it, right?

spectabillis · Post by **spectabillis** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:03 pm

Jordan 10-E wrote:You still don't get it. We are the ones not being "rational"?

then explain what i dont get.

Jordan 10-E · Post by **Jordan 10-E** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:14 pm

spectabillis wrote:
Jordan 10-E wrote:You still don't get it. We are the ones not being "rational"?
then explain what i dont get.

Well I have explained it to you multiple times in various threads, so have many others. I'm not too interested in spelling it out AGAIN. You're going to have your opinion no matter what it seems, come hell or high water. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the core issues involved here... and no I am not talking about whether the organization is green or not or if they are too corporate or whatever other "reasons" you list, dancing around the real issues. Talk about people coming up with justifications and excuses and diversions, that is all you have been doing this whole time. The dickwad crossed the line with his "joke". He was reckless and malicious and he did put people in danger and he did burn what wasn't his too burn. Period. End of story. You can play your semantic games all day but in the end they don't really add up to much.

Support for Paul

An early burn of the man

Bust a Deal, Face The Wheel

Softened....a little.

Pfffffftht!

can anyone answer this?

Re: Pfffffftht!