BLACK ROCK CITY DREAM

lrn2swm · Post by **lrn2swm** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:43 pm

It seems that nobody is too excited about the new theme. I agree, it does not seem like the place to be patriotic. Burning Man has been alot of things to alot of peaple, alot of peaple through out the world. Burning Man has been the meeting of minds from around the world, not only America. The event that we cherish so much has become the melting pot for ideas, spiritual, political, educational, or just plain creative. These ideas come from around the world, to meet in Black Rock City, so to have the new theme be The American Dream, seems a little vague as to what Burning man means. I am not suggesting boycott the theme, but maybe lets include evrybody that has contributed to the building of this fantastic city. Black Rock City Dream, this is the dream that we dream 358 days a year. This is the dream that allows all to be one, no colors, no lines, no borders, this is true freedom.

CapSmashy · Post by **CapSmashy** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:12 am

You just described the original American Dream in your post. The melting pot. A meeting of minds and labor from around the world that came together and created a place.

lurker · Post by **lurker** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:26 am

Black Rock City, Nevada, USA

SFNathan · Post by **SFNathan** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:46 am

"You just described the original American Dream in your post. The melting pot. A meeting of minds and labor from around the world that came together and created a place."

Yes, but this idea comes without the baggage of the American Dream which has an inherently political and localized context that not everyone shares who attends Burning Man.

I like this Black Rock City Dream idea, re-envisioning the theme into something more inclusive. I hope they trash their theme and rework it into something like this.

American Dream is exclusive of non-Americans who attend the event, anarchists and people like me who see themselves as global citizens first. I don't want Burning Man to foist an explicit political agenda on our community. It's like saying "in God We Trust", which is not written in the constitution anywhere, but the fact that we write it on our currency implicitly endorses the idea that we are a Christian nation. Having the theme be "American Dream" is an implicit endorsement of American Nationalism - something I certainly don't support as we are killing Iraqi's by the thousands under that banner.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:56 am

only a few negative theme statment have been voiced on eplaya.. there a couple of thousand poster.. most have not been heard from.. some are off for the winter some are reading posts amd others are at work building there dream for burning man 2008.

i heard about the theme a few days before it was posted.. it fits right into what i have been doing for years at BM.. my dream comes from the 1950s and projecting it into 2008 will be a nice winter effort..

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:55 am

I figure a dream, as in The American Dream, is a 100 percent individual thing. (As are sleep dreams, but that's another topic.)

So 2008 is a great opportunity for each and every one of us to express our own take on it, our own way.

(Background: I moved here from Norway in 1975, for the California climate and the hot rod cars. Of course, both seem less fascinating now, but here I am!)

barnz · Post by **barnz** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:53 pm

SFNathan wrote:"
(...) the baggage of the American Dream (...) has an inherently political and localized context (...)

It sure does.

SFNathan wrote:Having the theme be "American Dream" is an implicit endorsement of American Nationalism

No, it isn't. This is an ART THEME. Art does not simply accept the lowest common denominator. Art Questions, Art Prods and Pokes, Art Challenges and Art makes us look at the world in which we live in a different way. . .If we open ourselves to experience it. If we don't, then we may as well stay home. But we all live in a world where America and The American Dream is part of our environment, and therefore worthy of examination.

SFNathan · Post by **SFNathan** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:41 pm

"This is an ART THEME. Art does not simply accept the lowest common denominator. Art Questions, Art Prods and Pokes, Art Challenges and Art makes us look at the world in which we live in a different way. . .If we open ourselves to experience it."

An art theme is a statement itself, not simply an idea for other artists to react to. This is especially true when the statement is explicitly political. By choosing American Dream, instead of say, "Country and Culture", or "The Global Community", the theme makes several statements:

1. This theme prioritizes THIS country first, before other countries of the world (which are also worthy of consideration as subjects for art). This prioritization of America first is something Americans do too often, especially when it comes to world resources.

2. This theme uses the glowing, and historically rooted term "American Dream" and follows up with descriptions of what the theme is not about, including flag burning. If this theme is intended to be an idea open to artistic interpretation, than why are the organizers telling us not to burn flags when so many other things are burned on the playa that burning flags would be a naturally fitting form of artistic expression in sync with this theme?

This theme has a subtle but clear, nationalist agenda by directing us towards a positive, non-divisive exploration of the concept of America. It's totally inappropriate for Burning Man, and this is my 13th year at the Burn and I've never complained about the BMORG once in all my time. But this issue is very different. We are at war right now, and if we are going to explore politics, lets prioritize a global view first and contextualize America within the majority of the world that are suffering from our hogging resources and waging resource wars.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:05 pm

Elliot, henery ford will fit right in at 08.. surfs up!!!

Lifeisshort · Post by **Lifeisshort** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:19 pm

[size=18][color=darkred][b]SFNathan[/b][/color][/size]
I cant tell you how much I agree. Was Larry trying to be controversal? Like I have said in other posting, regardless of organizations intention many will see this as American Ego. And I believe this will surely be apparent at the 2008 burn.[/quote]

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:25 am

How about the Northern Nevada Dream? Or the Western Hemispherean Dream?

Some people don't dream, however, or don't remember their dreams; thus this theme is hurtful and discriminatory towards them. Please repent.

The CO · Post by **The CO** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:34 am

"American" is a broad term. Canadians are American. Mexicans are American. Chileans, Argentiniens, Panamanians, Brazilians-All Americans. Folks from the United States tend to think American means only them, but there are these two pesky continents (North & South AMERICA) that are included, despite what we might think.

Lifeisshort · Post by **Lifeisshort** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:37 am

They may all be of the "Americas", but did you take notice that there is an american flag flying behind the man on the website?

barnz · Post by **barnz** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:40 pm

SFNathan wrote: An art theme is a statement itself, not simply an idea for other artists to react to.

Sorry, I don't agree.

SFNathan wrote: This prioritization of America first is something Americans do too often, especially when it comes to world resources.

Sounds like something you feel strongly about. Why don't you contribute some art on this?

SFNathan wrote: 2. This theme uses the glowing, and historically rooted term "American Dream" and follows up with descriptions of what the theme is not about, including flag burning. If this theme is intended to be an idea open to artistic interpretation, than why are the organizers telling us not to burn flags when so many other things are burned on the playa that burning flags would be a naturally fitting form of artistic expression in sync with this theme?

Maybe for the same reason that drug use is accepted, but participants are warned that all state and federal laws still apply. There were lots of LEOs on site for 2007, with many citations issued - perhaps even more will be there next year. Flag burning is a complicated legal issue and we are camping on federally controlled land.

SFNathan wrote: We are at war right now, and if we are going to explore politics, lets prioritize a global view first and contextualize America within the majority of the world that are suffering from our hogging resources and waging resource wars.

Nathan, I think this sounds like a totally valid viewpoint, and one which you should demonstrate with your presence in 2008. While the choice of theme is provocative, I don't believe that it is intended in any way to preclude statements such as yours from being expressed.

Lifeisshort · Post by **Lifeisshort** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:36 pm

Barnz, come on guy.. you are so far off. Nathan has some very valid points and you seem to be off the mark.

SFNathan · Post by **SFNathan** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:31 pm

"Nathan, I think this sounds like a totally valid viewpoint, and one which you should demonstrate with your presence in 2008. While the choice of theme is provocative, I don't believe that it is intended in any way to preclude statements such as yours from being expressed."

I think you have a valid viewpoint that the theme is inclusive enough for you that it does not preclude your own views and the theme works for you. But I think that you are being inconsistent when you donâ€™t agree that the theme makes a statement and then turn around and say the theme is â€œprovocativeâ€

barnz · Post by **barnz** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:13 am

Nathan I'm sorry if your found my response patronizing, it was not my intention.

I don't think I'm 'having it both ways' when I believe that the concept of the American Dream has political overtones, but the choice of The American Dream as a mass Art Theme doesn't indicate blind acceptance of those politics by the BMORG or an expectation that participants view the concept in any unified way. It seems to me that it's a great opportunity to examine both the ideals and the realities of the American Dream - a cultural idea that all people around the world have been subjected to, but very often (mostly in this country) without critical thought and consideration. I'm grateful that I will have the chance to experience many people's artistic criticism of The American Dream in 2008.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:01 pm

The CO wrote:"American" is a broad term. Canadians are American. Mexicans are American. Chileans, Argentiniens, Panamanians, Brazilians-All Americans. Folks from the United States tend to think American means only them, but there are these two pesky continents (North & South AMERICA) that are included, despite what we might think.

Well, BM ain't in Greenland, pilgrim.

The CO · Post by **The CO** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:33 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:Well, BM ain't in Greenland, pilgrim.

Nope, but wouldn't it be fun if it was!

BAS · Post by **BAS** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:12 pm

The CO wrote:
Ugly Dougly wrote:Well, BM ain't in Greenland, pilgrim.
Nope, but wouldn't it be fun if it was!

Actually, I have always advocated moving it to Antarctica (and keeping the dates of the event the same).

B.

Rolan Headon · Post by **Rolan Headon** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:50 am

News Flash, Sept 2008:

The American Dream, small ghetto neighborhood of Black Rock City, was widely ignored as a unifying theme this year, though strains of Jimi Hendrix's "Star Spangled Banner" were frequently heard in the distant parts of the deep playa...

Rolan Headon · Post by **Rolan Headon** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:39 am

So Elliot, not meaning to revive a long dead thread, but...how's your Live Music Camp shaping up? Techno is ok for moving to but push button soul can only nourish for so long. Like your idea, be a welcome addition to the other live venues. Could we have a concentrated area attractive to live vibrations? Ton of talent out there from all over the world...

playafucker · Post by **playafucker** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:46 am

AMERICA HAS BEEN DOING FUCKED UP SHIT THE WHOLE TIME IT HAS BEEN AROUND
IT WILL NOT STOP DOING FUCKED UP SHIT

iraq
big deal
we DROPPED NUCLEAR BOMBS ON PEOPLE

So let go of I cant support america

I really like how this theme brings this idea up

I hate everything this country is but I live her and love all it's opportunity .

Why?

Nathan, Why don't you want to get political?

Do you vote?
Do you care about this country

Or are you like all the other counter culture types that sit and talk shit and don't do anything to make a difference.

It certainlty is not easy but if there is anywhere you can change the way things are it's here.

I mean imagine if there was voter reregistration in center camps...

Most of us would think it lame and not like it? Don't you think there is something inherently wrong about that. We think our freedom is lame or (which probably the more true) We have lost complete faith in the system.

BUT WHAT A BETTER PLACE TO TALK AND DISCUSS

I know I hate America and I am ashamed to be associated with most its population but as an artist I want to explore why that is.

America as a art subject is so rich.

That is what made Warhol famous. The pop culture contraindication and the strange lines of class and status bring up so many images.

who want to work on a project around how

WE ALL DISLIKE AMERICA YET WE STILL LIVE IN IT