So there are already ballots on this theme, we're dividing our strength in unity by quibbling over yet another emotion-stirring, yet essentially unimportant topic, lots of people are suddenly vocal about focusing intensely on including other nationalities, and we're turning our attention away from the real issues at hand. Seems a lot like the current American Dream alright. Speaking for myself, about to leave the country, I'm getting a little nostalgic. It's a beautiful land, with beautiful people, even the dream is beautiful...but the double-speak of it is not. I guess this theme is both a blessing and a curse. I almost want to vote on both extremes. It's a great idea! It's an awful idea!
Burning Man would exist with no theme at all, right? I examined the statement about "the American Dream" as a theme. It's so dodgy...could be subversively political in any direction. Overall though, Larry, listen to the public. If the people don't want it, don't frickin' do it. That's the American dream: Democracy. If the people don't want you to sell another 10,000 tickets each year, don't do it! If people want to make EVERY year green, do it! This poll is only as important as every other poll. The people will speak. I suggest you listen.
2008 "American Dream" theme
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spectabillis
- Posts: 3527
- Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:07 pm
- Burning Since: 2022
- Location: black rock city
Re: I think it's an ironic joke
dont worry, they have a new supplement to keep that patriotic spirit deep within your heart.Audey Lee wrote:Speaking for myself, about to leave the country, I'm getting a little nostalgic.
http://www.havidol.com/index.php
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christophergraves2
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:46 am
this theme sucks -
While this theme can be worked, and I am sure some artists will see this as the perfect opp to exploit certain political views, IT SUCKS.
here are few possible thoughts that come to my mind when i think about how they might have come up with this theme.
1- they were/are trying to really piss us all off... to get us inspired to be more active in the future of BRC.
1b - or to get us to move on to regional events so they can make it into a big corporate sponsored, money making event. It will be a lot easier to do once those that know better have moved on.
2- a small group of people decided this theme, and they were afraid to use or mix up any more esoteric ideas as alot of the Virgins wouldn't get it? knowing that half of the attendies are now virgins, they had to dumb it down?
3- They wanted to show us that our political system is just like the BORG, you think you are participating, but the BORG is still going to do what ever they want to do.
here are few possible thoughts that come to my mind when i think about how they might have come up with this theme.
1- they were/are trying to really piss us all off... to get us inspired to be more active in the future of BRC.
1b - or to get us to move on to regional events so they can make it into a big corporate sponsored, money making event. It will be a lot easier to do once those that know better have moved on.
2- a small group of people decided this theme, and they were afraid to use or mix up any more esoteric ideas as alot of the Virgins wouldn't get it? knowing that half of the attendies are now virgins, they had to dumb it down?
3- They wanted to show us that our political system is just like the BORG, you think you are participating, but the BORG is still going to do what ever they want to do.
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Monkey Pants
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:15 am
The North Korean/Russian/Afghani Dream???
While after long thought, I have become luke warm, at best, to the idea of The American Dream (Look at what WE can create: isn't it wonderful!!)
However, I think that ANY theme that singles out an individual country or culture would not be the best choice for a Burning Man Theme. Alot of great art could be created, and it would spark alot of dialogue.
However, it is my FEAR that it would also breed anger, resentment, and animosity.
Why should we choose a theme that would so boldly alienate a major cross section of our loved ones and participants?
Why should we choose a theme that so boldly invites NEGATIVE ENERGY? WHY?
I don't want us, as Americans, to cower and be ashamed of all the beauty and hope we create, but we certainly need to be SELF-AWARE as to our current position in world thought. Esp. after 8 years and 200 BILLION dollars used to create and maintain a war.
However, I think that ANY theme that singles out an individual country or culture would not be the best choice for a Burning Man Theme. Alot of great art could be created, and it would spark alot of dialogue.
However, it is my FEAR that it would also breed anger, resentment, and animosity.
Why should we choose a theme that would so boldly alienate a major cross section of our loved ones and participants?
Why should we choose a theme that so boldly invites NEGATIVE ENERGY? WHY?
I don't want us, as Americans, to cower and be ashamed of all the beauty and hope we create, but we certainly need to be SELF-AWARE as to our current position in world thought. Esp. after 8 years and 200 BILLION dollars used to create and maintain a war.
PERSONALLY, I HATE THIS THEME.
And I rarely use the word "hate". But this theme fits the bill for me.
But this new theme, seems completely ANATHEMA to what I have considered the overal principles and ideals of BM.
2007 was my first burn, but I took to it like a duck to water. I truly "came home". And in 2008 I will come home again. But I am so hoping in a theme that I can wrap my imagination around. This one leaves me cold.
Peace.
But this new theme, seems completely ANATHEMA to what I have considered the overal principles and ideals of BM.
2007 was my first burn, but I took to it like a duck to water. I truly "came home". And in 2008 I will come home again. But I am so hoping in a theme that I can wrap my imagination around. This one leaves me cold.
Peace.
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Ugly Dougly
- Posts: 17612
- Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:31 am
- Burning Since: 1996
- Location: เชียงใหม่
Re: this theme sucks -
Probably something like that.christophergraves2 wrote:While this theme can be worked, and I am sure some artists will see this as the perfect opp to exploit certain political views, IT SUCKS.
here are few possible thoughts that come to my mind when i think about how they might have come up with this theme.
1- they were/are trying to really piss us all off... to get us inspired to be more active in the future of BRC.
1b - or to get us to move on to regional events so they can make it into a big corporate sponsored, money making event. It will be a lot easier to do once those that know better have moved on.
2- a small group of people decided this theme, and they were afraid to use or mix up any more esoteric ideas as alot of the Virgins wouldn't get it? knowing that half of the attendies are now virgins, they had to dumb it down?
3- They wanted to show us that our political system is just like the BORG, you think you are participating, but the BORG is still going to do what ever they want to do.
The theme is terrible and ironic... JUST LIKE THE "GREEN MAN" crap was!
It's funny how many people NOW say the "American" theme sucks, but were lulled into the farce of "Green Man" (a noble worldwide effort and concept, but a huge exploitation by marketing agencies and product sellers nationwide!).
Look at yourself and ask if being led onto the "American Dream" Bandwagon isn't just as ridiculous as being led onto the "Green Environmental This-N-That" Bandwagon, which marketing agencies are currently using to get you to buy their "green" products... Like, say, an "environmentally friendly" carpet detergent, or a TICKET TO BURNING MAN (a California Limited Liability multi-million dollar CORPORATION).
I am in TOTAL agreement that the 2008 theme is ludicrous, as I was adamant that the 2007 theme was ludicrous. And, frankly, a couple themes in previous years were lame, scary, or just plane inappropriate. Remember, people, Burning Man is MEANT TO BE FOR US AND BY US, but we are being hypnotized into submission one year at a time, one Newbie at a time. We SHOULD have more of a say in topics like themes. We should NOT let Larry veer into a course of cult-like dictatorship (not saying he necessarily IS just yet, but keep your eyes open for the already emerging signs). And it's good to hear people finally speaking out about OUR event (on which BM Corp. is making millions), like the Piss Clear newspaper did in its final edition this year (get a copy if you didn't see it).
United we camp, Divided we drink the Cool-Aid of Ultimate Submission and Ironic Consumerism!
Cheers.
It's funny how many people NOW say the "American" theme sucks, but were lulled into the farce of "Green Man" (a noble worldwide effort and concept, but a huge exploitation by marketing agencies and product sellers nationwide!).
Look at yourself and ask if being led onto the "American Dream" Bandwagon isn't just as ridiculous as being led onto the "Green Environmental This-N-That" Bandwagon, which marketing agencies are currently using to get you to buy their "green" products... Like, say, an "environmentally friendly" carpet detergent, or a TICKET TO BURNING MAN (a California Limited Liability multi-million dollar CORPORATION).
I am in TOTAL agreement that the 2008 theme is ludicrous, as I was adamant that the 2007 theme was ludicrous. And, frankly, a couple themes in previous years were lame, scary, or just plane inappropriate. Remember, people, Burning Man is MEANT TO BE FOR US AND BY US, but we are being hypnotized into submission one year at a time, one Newbie at a time. We SHOULD have more of a say in topics like themes. We should NOT let Larry veer into a course of cult-like dictatorship (not saying he necessarily IS just yet, but keep your eyes open for the already emerging signs). And it's good to hear people finally speaking out about OUR event (on which BM Corp. is making millions), like the Piss Clear newspaper did in its final edition this year (get a copy if you didn't see it).
United we camp, Divided we drink the Cool-Aid of Ultimate Submission and Ironic Consumerism!
Cheers.
Brainstorn some topic ideas...
How about these clever and witty ideas...
"The UNIVERSE is our PlayaGround"
"The Long & Dusty Way High... Way"
"Naughty School Gerl-ach"
"How! High are ya?!"
"Furry Boots, Cowboy Hats, & Latex Body Paint"
(Er, no, nevermind... that'd never work)
"TeePees & Wigwams - An 'In-Tents' Experience"
"Recycle Man: Re-Use, not Re-fuse"
Ha. I crack myself up.
:lol:
Cheers!
-Six
"The UNIVERSE is our PlayaGround"
"The Long & Dusty Way High... Way"
"Naughty School Gerl-ach"
"How! High are ya?!"
"Furry Boots, Cowboy Hats, & Latex Body Paint"
(Er, no, nevermind... that'd never work)
"TeePees & Wigwams - An 'In-Tents' Experience"
"Recycle Man: Re-Use, not Re-fuse"
Ha. I crack myself up.
:lol:
Cheers!
-Six
How about just a simple change to "Global Dream".
This encompasses the American Dream theme, would make international Burners feel that the event is being more inclusive of them, and wouldn't bring up the baggage that naturally comes with the American theme, given that we are at war right now, the current president has condoned spying on American citizens (while Democrats passed a law allowing him to do it...) and every other reason that people are more interested in venting their anger towards America right now rather than talking glowingly about a dream for America exclusively.
Why don't we dream for the world and not just America? It's simple enough...
This encompasses the American Dream theme, would make international Burners feel that the event is being more inclusive of them, and wouldn't bring up the baggage that naturally comes with the American theme, given that we are at war right now, the current president has condoned spying on American citizens (while Democrats passed a law allowing him to do it...) and every other reason that people are more interested in venting their anger towards America right now rather than talking glowingly about a dream for America exclusively.
Why don't we dream for the world and not just America? It's simple enough...
"the Global Community"
Because it's not. Burning Man and BRC are not global dreams, they're not aspects of global community.How about just a simple change to "Global Dream".
They happen here. Why can't we have something good?
Look at the rest of the world. How many of you take the time out to spend the thousands to go to the huge Canadian Burning Man? The English one?
Brazilian? Namibian? Balinese?
There isn't another one.
Do you know why?
Because most of the rest of the people in the world don't think like this.
A huge chunk are just not interested, they've got their own lives. The idea of DELIBERATELY forgoing basic living comforts(that are luxuries to a whole lot of them) to run around naked and look at art is just not in their conception of fun.
Another chunk think things like BM are evil.
Another chunk look at BM as something the 'stupid Americans' do. "More money than sense".
Burning Man happens here because Americans see the world as something they can play with, change, improve, conserve, repair and destroy---and people from all over the world come here to experience that kind of thought process(and a lot of the ones that come already kinda share that idea).
We see ourselves as able to be what we want--and I don't just mean rich or poor--I mean winged, furry, gigantic, blue, befanged, behooved and ill behaved.
And people want that. And it's here. It's part of what makes us great--it may be all that makes us great. We are the Imagi-nation.
"Life is like a box of razor blades. Sharp, shiny, and good for removing unwanted body hair"
"most of the rest of the people in the world don't think like this." - Lurker
It's this kind of attitude which ignores the international burners who attend Burning Man that many of us find offensive.
I am the lead coordinator of one of the ten largest villages at Burning Man. One of our camps is a theme camp of people almost entirely from London. They rent out all of their equipment from Reno and build a camp here every year, investing tons of money, time and energy into an event that is just as much theirs as it is my event and all the rest of us who are from America. Just because they live on the other side of the world doesn't mean they are any less Burners than us - in fact, they invest probably more in this event than a lot of Americans who attend it.
Obviously they 'think like this' and are Burners too.
And your myopic view that creativity is only an American thing is yet another reason that we should broaden the perspective here. Creativity is not an exclusively American thing. (America is NOT the only place in the world that celebrates events like Burning Man - The Full Moon Party in Thailand, Psytrance parties in Goa India, Carnavalle in Rio, and many other places have radically creative celebrations that are comparable, if different in style, from Burning Man). Creative contributions have happened all around the world and we should celebrate all of them, not just America's.
There is NO reason that you can't have your American art in the context of the Global Dream. There is no reason you can't envision a dream for America within a global context. In fact, we must start looking beyond America and looking to partner with the rest of the world if we want the things we care about in America to survive. The emphasis MUST be global, because we can't just wage wars for the things we want and expect to have the standard of living we've always had in the past. We must look to work with the rest of the world to be able to continue your and my American Dream.
It should be Global Dream if we are going to discuss nations at all.
It's this kind of attitude which ignores the international burners who attend Burning Man that many of us find offensive.
I am the lead coordinator of one of the ten largest villages at Burning Man. One of our camps is a theme camp of people almost entirely from London. They rent out all of their equipment from Reno and build a camp here every year, investing tons of money, time and energy into an event that is just as much theirs as it is my event and all the rest of us who are from America. Just because they live on the other side of the world doesn't mean they are any less Burners than us - in fact, they invest probably more in this event than a lot of Americans who attend it.
Obviously they 'think like this' and are Burners too.
And your myopic view that creativity is only an American thing is yet another reason that we should broaden the perspective here. Creativity is not an exclusively American thing. (America is NOT the only place in the world that celebrates events like Burning Man - The Full Moon Party in Thailand, Psytrance parties in Goa India, Carnavalle in Rio, and many other places have radically creative celebrations that are comparable, if different in style, from Burning Man). Creative contributions have happened all around the world and we should celebrate all of them, not just America's.
There is NO reason that you can't have your American art in the context of the Global Dream. There is no reason you can't envision a dream for America within a global context. In fact, we must start looking beyond America and looking to partner with the rest of the world if we want the things we care about in America to survive. The emphasis MUST be global, because we can't just wage wars for the things we want and expect to have the standard of living we've always had in the past. We must look to work with the rest of the world to be able to continue your and my American Dream.
It should be Global Dream if we are going to discuss nations at all.
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TheFunkHole
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:49 pm
- Location: Nevada City, California
Burning Man is an American Event and is made up of mostly Americans trying to live by the 10 principals for 1 week out of the year. Perhaps it's not such a bad idea to be asked to consider our dreams and reflect them with art.
They claim this is the third installment of a theme trilogy:
Hope & Fear: The Future -'06
Green Man (humans living more in tune with nature) -'07
American Dream -'08
Ask yourselves what is the common thread that ties these themes together? They all question our current direction as a:
species/
culture/
country/
and our relationship with the planet we inhabit. (our host)
"This year's art theme is about patriotism -- not that kind which freights the nation state with the collective weight of ego, but a patriotism that is based upon a love of country and culture."
Wow, ok... sounds like Burning Man is pretty patriotic then, as it was formed and grown by people who love the country and culture that enables them to be part of this amazing experiment. I'm not talking about "America Fuck YEAH!" Moreso, it's cool this happened here and we can all be a part of it every year, not just once in a lifetime.
I'd say Burning Man = American Dream for lots of participants. No?
Rarely have I witnessed so much creativity, expression, unconditional love, and devotion in one place for an entire week or longer. (sounds like a dream to me)
People often say BM is an escape from the "default world". If the ideas, art, and community of Burning Man are what you live for every year, why not keep dreaming?
(though, my dream would have less techno music in it, and more live instruments from all around the world)
They claim this is the third installment of a theme trilogy:
Hope & Fear: The Future -'06
Green Man (humans living more in tune with nature) -'07
American Dream -'08
Ask yourselves what is the common thread that ties these themes together? They all question our current direction as a:
species/
culture/
country/
and our relationship with the planet we inhabit. (our host)
"This year's art theme is about patriotism -- not that kind which freights the nation state with the collective weight of ego, but a patriotism that is based upon a love of country and culture."
Wow, ok... sounds like Burning Man is pretty patriotic then, as it was formed and grown by people who love the country and culture that enables them to be part of this amazing experiment. I'm not talking about "America Fuck YEAH!" Moreso, it's cool this happened here and we can all be a part of it every year, not just once in a lifetime.
I'd say Burning Man = American Dream for lots of participants. No?
Rarely have I witnessed so much creativity, expression, unconditional love, and devotion in one place for an entire week or longer. (sounds like a dream to me)
People often say BM is an escape from the "default world". If the ideas, art, and community of Burning Man are what you live for every year, why not keep dreaming?
(though, my dream would have less techno music in it, and more live instruments from all around the world)
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Kinetik V
- Posts: 1652
- Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:43 am
- Burning Since: 2002
- Camp Name: Sanctuary West
Reality Check:
This is Larry's event.
"American Dream" is the theme he chose.
BRC is not a fucking democracy.
You, me, or anyone else rolling through the gates of BRC in 2008 has no power, influence, or any way whatsoever of changing this.
In short, this is your new fucking reality. DEAL WITH IT! Enough of the whining...it ain't accomplishing nothing.
And who in the fucking hell do those of you who want this changed think you are? It's not a public safety issue or event logistical concern, it's a fucking art theme! Which historically is ignored by a large number of participants anyway. What is the fucking problem here? Move on, go find another dead horse to flog!
I hate following TheFunkHole's excellent post with a hot one like this but damn, this has went on long enough.
This is Larry's event.
"American Dream" is the theme he chose.
BRC is not a fucking democracy.
You, me, or anyone else rolling through the gates of BRC in 2008 has no power, influence, or any way whatsoever of changing this.
In short, this is your new fucking reality. DEAL WITH IT! Enough of the whining...it ain't accomplishing nothing.
And who in the fucking hell do those of you who want this changed think you are? It's not a public safety issue or event logistical concern, it's a fucking art theme! Which historically is ignored by a large number of participants anyway. What is the fucking problem here? Move on, go find another dead horse to flog!
I hate following TheFunkHole's excellent post with a hot one like this but damn, this has went on long enough.
Kinetic V
~~~~~~
I bring order to chaos. And I bring chaos to those who deserve it, wherever that may be.
~~~~~~
I bring order to chaos. And I bring chaos to those who deserve it, wherever that may be.
"Reality Check: This is Larry's event.... BRC is not a fucking democracy.... Enough of the whining...And who in the fucking hell do those of you who want this changed think you are? this has went on long enough..."
Reality Check for you Kinetic:
1. This is a discussion thread where the community is encouraged to give feedback on the theme. 80% of the people who have feedback to give have strong negative feelings about the theme. If you are annoyed by the discussion than don't participate, but people are encouraged to speak up here. And so, who do you think you are to tell them not to voice their opinion?
2. There are no spectators at Burning Man. The theme is not Larry Harvey. This is a participatory community. 50,000 people work hard to come out to the desert to do this event because it is OUR event. Yours, mine, and all the people posting here. If this ever were to become "Burning Man - Larry Harvey Presents, the rest of you do as you are told..." then the whole thing would change a lot.
I've been going since 1994 13 times. I've never complained once to the BMORG about anything. So it's not like I'm on here complaining about things every year. But this is the first time I found the theme to be so 'anti-Burning Man', the antithesis of everything that I thought this event was about, that I'm very fired up to speak my mind about something that really bothers me.
So I'm not going to tell you to put a lid on it - don't tell me. Discussion of how we feel is why these discussion pages are here.
Reality Check for you Kinetic:
1. This is a discussion thread where the community is encouraged to give feedback on the theme. 80% of the people who have feedback to give have strong negative feelings about the theme. If you are annoyed by the discussion than don't participate, but people are encouraged to speak up here. And so, who do you think you are to tell them not to voice their opinion?
2. There are no spectators at Burning Man. The theme is not Larry Harvey. This is a participatory community. 50,000 people work hard to come out to the desert to do this event because it is OUR event. Yours, mine, and all the people posting here. If this ever were to become "Burning Man - Larry Harvey Presents, the rest of you do as you are told..." then the whole thing would change a lot.
I've been going since 1994 13 times. I've never complained once to the BMORG about anything. So it's not like I'm on here complaining about things every year. But this is the first time I found the theme to be so 'anti-Burning Man', the antithesis of everything that I thought this event was about, that I'm very fired up to speak my mind about something that really bothers me.
So I'm not going to tell you to put a lid on it - don't tell me. Discussion of how we feel is why these discussion pages are here.
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TheFunkHole
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:49 pm
- Location: Nevada City, California
My first reaction was *cringe* wtf! too.
Keep thinking about it, keep re-reading the brief, probably soon-to-be more elaborate description of the theme.
Detach yourself from your immediate "gross out" first reaction and approach it with a clean unbiased mindset.
It's a very different one, but that doesn't mean it is bad or wrong. Given the state of the world, and especially America, this theme is very fitting to me. I'd argue most "foreign burners" would agree, and I look forward to their interpretation.
It may not align with the majority, then again either does most art.
If this theme popped up 10 years ago, I would never have understood it and probably hated it too.
Keep thinking!
Keep thinking about it, keep re-reading the brief, probably soon-to-be more elaborate description of the theme.
Detach yourself from your immediate "gross out" first reaction and approach it with a clean unbiased mindset.
It's a very different one, but that doesn't mean it is bad or wrong. Given the state of the world, and especially America, this theme is very fitting to me. I'd argue most "foreign burners" would agree, and I look forward to their interpretation.
It may not align with the majority, then again either does most art.
If this theme popped up 10 years ago, I would never have understood it and probably hated it too.
Keep thinking!
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TheFunkHole
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:49 pm
- Location: Nevada City, California
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unjonharley
- Posts: 10434
- Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
- Burning Since: 2001
- Camp Name: Elliot's naked bycycel repair
- Location: Salem Or.
Shit, I have been to biker rallies that make early BM look like a cake bake off.. The law was scared to come on the rented land.. they knew they would be thrown into the river.. if they stopped you on the hwy everyone would stop with you.. cops don t like fifty people watching when they write a ticket..
we did not need any law.. we took care of our own.. you could get your ass kicked
if the music was bad.. some one got there ass kicked.. if you fucked with some ones ride you got your ass kicked.. and you best pay the whore what you agreed or she would kick your ass..
party til you puke.. help the other guy out..share everything you have.. marry your back bitch.. and live the American Dream
we did not need any law.. we took care of our own.. you could get your ass kicked
if the music was bad.. some one got there ass kicked.. if you fucked with some ones ride you got your ass kicked.. and you best pay the whore what you agreed or she would kick your ass..
party til you puke.. help the other guy out..share everything you have.. marry your back bitch.. and live the American Dream
"My first reaction was *cringe* wtf! too.... Keep thinking about it, keep re-reading the brief, probably soon-to-be more elaborate description of the theme.... Detach yourself from your immediate "gross out" first reaction and approach it with a clean unbiased mindset."
I appreciate that FH. and I appreciate your thoughtful, respectful engagement of the issue.
I actually had the reverse happen with me. Initially I kind of liked the idea of the theme because I thought it might engage Burners in the American Political process more. But the more I thought about it, the more my opinion about the theme changed a lot. The concept "American Dream", and the language telling us what that is NOT about, (it's not about Blue States, Red States, flag burning etc.), and how telling us what the theme is not about is dictating a subtle form of nationalism by telling us how we should not represent America, and when my Burner friends from London announced they were strongly considering not attending because they felt the theme was exclusive / xenophobic, my opinion changed a lot.
So I would ask the same of you. Keep an open mind about the theme and whether you think it should be changed. Let's both continue to have open minds and engage in a respectful discussion about it.
Maybe the theme could be modified in a way that is broader and more inclusive, (my first take on that would be to change it to "Global Dream") and remember we are all Burners on these discussion boards - let's keep it respectful.
I appreciate that FH. and I appreciate your thoughtful, respectful engagement of the issue.
I actually had the reverse happen with me. Initially I kind of liked the idea of the theme because I thought it might engage Burners in the American Political process more. But the more I thought about it, the more my opinion about the theme changed a lot. The concept "American Dream", and the language telling us what that is NOT about, (it's not about Blue States, Red States, flag burning etc.), and how telling us what the theme is not about is dictating a subtle form of nationalism by telling us how we should not represent America, and when my Burner friends from London announced they were strongly considering not attending because they felt the theme was exclusive / xenophobic, my opinion changed a lot.
So I would ask the same of you. Keep an open mind about the theme and whether you think it should be changed. Let's both continue to have open minds and engage in a respectful discussion about it.
Maybe the theme could be modified in a way that is broader and more inclusive, (my first take on that would be to change it to "Global Dream") and remember we are all Burners on these discussion boards - let's keep it respectful.
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TheFunkHole
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:49 pm
- Location: Nevada City, California
Cheers SFN!
Changing the theme or even modifying it once it has been announced could happen, but IMO that is a compromise of the original vision. This is a fine line approaching political correctness. PC BM! wha, I never!
Global Dream is great, I like it, and I am ALL for it, but that is a different theme, albeit a very important one.
America is the purported exclusive Super Power of the world, maybe not for long? Take your ideas/opinions of America and interpret what "American Dream" means to you. Where do you dream it to be in the future? What do you see in your mind when you think of this country in the future?
Anyone can do this, not just Americans. I'm sure everyone has an American Dream. Remember, dreams can be nightmares too!
Example:
The first idea that came to mind was to make an art car. A white stretch limo painted red, white, blue with a GIANT erect penis on top. Airbrushed letters on the hood and rear trunk. "Cocky Americans"
I thought it might be kinda funny, and comment on the theme a bit.
Changing the theme or even modifying it once it has been announced could happen, but IMO that is a compromise of the original vision. This is a fine line approaching political correctness. PC BM! wha, I never!
Global Dream is great, I like it, and I am ALL for it, but that is a different theme, albeit a very important one.
America is the purported exclusive Super Power of the world, maybe not for long? Take your ideas/opinions of America and interpret what "American Dream" means to you. Where do you dream it to be in the future? What do you see in your mind when you think of this country in the future?
Anyone can do this, not just Americans. I'm sure everyone has an American Dream. Remember, dreams can be nightmares too!
Example:
The first idea that came to mind was to make an art car. A white stretch limo painted red, white, blue with a GIANT erect penis on top. Airbrushed letters on the hood and rear trunk. "Cocky Americans"
I thought it might be kinda funny, and comment on the theme a bit.
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unjonharley
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TheFunkHole
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"this also draws attention to the fact that the theme selection process is seriously flawed"
Yeah, I have no idea how it is chosen each year. Until they add a poll on BMorg asking for suggestions and votes, I imagine it is not up for debate, only discussion and interpretation.
"It’s like saying that Burning Man is really an American event, and all of you who travel from the other side of the world to come here every year – we dream of your nation as an after thought, because most of us here are Americans."
I see your point, but anyone who has been to BM should know better. Maybe the organizers view it as an American event? It does take place in America afterall, and is open to everyone.
"Each nation may be viewed as a container of identity; yet each one can be said to be a glimmering illusion, an arbitrary entity defined by boundaries on a map. All of us are immigrants to Black Rock City. What can we dream America to be?"
Perhaps that statement could be interpreted as a way to build and live in an American Dream city. Make BRC your dream?
I don't know, *sigh* I have to go home now, we'll discuss more tomorrow.
Yeah, I have no idea how it is chosen each year. Until they add a poll on BMorg asking for suggestions and votes, I imagine it is not up for debate, only discussion and interpretation.
"It’s like saying that Burning Man is really an American event, and all of you who travel from the other side of the world to come here every year – we dream of your nation as an after thought, because most of us here are Americans."
I see your point, but anyone who has been to BM should know better. Maybe the organizers view it as an American event? It does take place in America afterall, and is open to everyone.
"Each nation may be viewed as a container of identity; yet each one can be said to be a glimmering illusion, an arbitrary entity defined by boundaries on a map. All of us are immigrants to Black Rock City. What can we dream America to be?"
Perhaps that statement could be interpreted as a way to build and live in an American Dream city. Make BRC your dream?
I don't know, *sigh* I have to go home now, we'll discuss more tomorrow.
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unjonharley
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unjonharley
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"Aw, crap, September isn't even over with, and I am already tired of the theme discussion!"
get ready for a long year of talking about this theme. I don't see Unjon and you dropping the conversation and saying you don't care if they change the theme, and I'm not going to drop the discussion until they DO change the theme. This theme by nature is divisive and is going to pit people in the community on different sides of the issue. That's what happens when you drop a loaded political theme onto a community that is mostly anarchist.
So of course we are going at it (although I'm not going to call other people trolls or whiners - I really wish a few people on this thread had more class and courtesy about people who think differently from them).
get ready for a long year of talking about this theme. I don't see Unjon and you dropping the conversation and saying you don't care if they change the theme, and I'm not going to drop the discussion until they DO change the theme. This theme by nature is divisive and is going to pit people in the community on different sides of the issue. That's what happens when you drop a loaded political theme onto a community that is mostly anarchist.
So of course we are going at it (although I'm not going to call other people trolls or whiners - I really wish a few people on this thread had more class and courtesy about people who think differently from them).
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Kinetik V
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For someone that's been a member of this board for 2 years running SFNathan surely you have an idea of how things work around here, and how limited of a scope this board has. If you think it represents the majority of BM participants you are sadly mistaken. This is the vocal and electronically connected minority.SFNathan wrote:Well, given that 80% of the Burners who have expressed their views on the theme think it’s awful, a compromise seems to be worth considering. And this also draws attention to the fact that the theme selection process is seriously flawed. (& UnJohn - this site is here for feedback, so to the degree that the organization listens to their own method of gathering feedback, than this is an instructive tool for them to gather public opinion, which so far has been very opposed to the theme.)
That being said it is rumored that Larry does read this board....but even if he does is there a solid, compelling argument here that's going to influence him to change his mind? Rather than give my opinion on that, go back and read your posts.
Kinetic V
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I bring order to chaos. And I bring chaos to those who deserve it, wherever that may be.
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I bring order to chaos. And I bring chaos to those who deserve it, wherever that may be.
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unjonharley
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SFbrothermichael
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There are some really great points being made here.
if it is generally agreed that the American Dream places too much focus on America when we should be thinking globally...
and if the theme asks "what has American done or failed to do that leaves you feeling dismayed?"...
it seems Larry Harvey is personally inviting us to give this idea a voice and make it part of our history and playa politics.
THE WHOLE WORLD THINKS AMERICA'S POLITICAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL FOCUS SHOULD BE ON THE GLOBAL COMMUNITY AND NOT ONLY ITSELF.
I'm glad the theme IS The American Dream because this provides an opportunity for us to make a statement that changing the theme or staying home never could.
if it is generally agreed that the American Dream places too much focus on America when we should be thinking globally...
and if the theme asks "what has American done or failed to do that leaves you feeling dismayed?"...
it seems Larry Harvey is personally inviting us to give this idea a voice and make it part of our history and playa politics.
THE WHOLE WORLD THINKS AMERICA'S POLITICAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL FOCUS SHOULD BE ON THE GLOBAL COMMUNITY AND NOT ONLY ITSELF.
I'm glad the theme IS The American Dream because this provides an opportunity for us to make a statement that changing the theme or staying home never could.