2008 "American Dream" theme

How much do you like the 2008 "American Dream" theme?

Lame. Lame. Lame.
215
30%
Lame. Lame. Lame.
215
30%
Sort of lame.
60
8%
Sort of lame.
60
8%
Good enough.
32
5%
Good enough.
32
5%
Brilliant. Inspiring.
47
7%
Brilliant. Inspiring.
47
7%
 
Total votes: 708

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Rabbi Dali Rick
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Re: The American Dream Sucks... But It'll Cost $75.....

Post by Rabbi Dali Rick » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:52 am

BAS wrote:
Rabbi Dali Rick wrote:Image







Everybody has a dream....







the rebbi

:shock: You mean you want to get a breast job like that, rebbi?!? :shock:

(Or am I misinterpreting things again?)


B.

Ummmm.... Yes... but, how much for the little girl?.....








the rebbi

(read the header there Mr. B.....)

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Rabbi Dali Rick
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....... First, Squeeze Your Anus Tightly For 10 Minutes ..

Post by Rabbi Dali Rick » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:57 am

klone138 wrote:Im just posting another one just to say this is the worst theme EVER! Fuck the american dream. Everyone that hates this theme should write the burning man staff a quick email and tell em how you feel. Or else shut the fuck up. IF YOU DONT LIKE IT...DO SOMETHING! Heres a perfect way to be heard. [email protected]
actually the first years theme was the worse..

"Evil Monkeys Ate My Dog and Shit On My Cat"



there was a run on evil monkeys at the local Walmart that screwed everybody at the event....







the rebbi

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BAS
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Re: The American Dream Sucks... But It'll Cost $75.....

Post by BAS » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:58 am

Rabbi Dali Rick wrote:
BAS wrote:
Rabbi Dali Rick wrote:Image







Everybody has a dream....







the rebbi

:shock: You mean you want to get a breast job like that, rebbi?!? :shock:

(Or am I misinterpreting things again?)


B.

Ummmm.... Yes... but, how much for the little girl?.....








the rebbi

(read the header there Mr. B.....)

:oops: Sorry, I got distracted by... somethings! :oops:



B.
"Nothing is withheld from us which we have conceived to do.
Do things that have never been done."
--Russell Kirsch

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Rabbi Dali Rick
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...... Don't Forget To Swallow ........

Post by Rabbi Dali Rick » Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:01 am

TheFunkHole wrote:Children, children... If I have to pull this car over, you are going to walk home.

What is it about forums that make people so cranky? :evil: Take a Havidol http://www.havidol.com/ and get yer smile back.






Image







ok..... :roll:






the rebbi

chrisz
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Breath in, Breath out....

Post by chrisz » Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:48 pm

Keep the air flowing to the brain.... the dream is dead.... we are going to burn it to make sure. :lol:


So... Lame as it is... it's a theme you can do things with.

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Remark
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Post by Remark » Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:16 pm

Image

The American Dream - Dusty Rhodes

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Remark
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Post by Remark » Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:21 pm

Image

So are most people going with "young American Dream" theme or "old American Dream" theme?

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Kinetik V
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Post by Kinetik V » Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:23 pm

Remark wrote:Image

So are most people going with "young American Dream" theme or "old American Dream" theme?
The older American Dream recently got his ass kicked by Randy Orton. Stick with the younger one.
Kinetic V
~~~~~~
I bring order to chaos. And I bring chaos to those who deserve it, wherever that may be.

kailashtown
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war on ev everything

Post by kailashtown » Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:01 am

larry m8
ive got the "American dream" listed below

so let choose something else:-)


i found the american dream!!!!

check out.......

its knowing about world affairs!!!



its pushing people over!!!



no its freedom!!!!!!!



and believing fox news!!!!


or having a gun!!!!


war on 9/11!!!!!


finding osama binladan


Beating Michael Moore!!!!

kailashtown
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i found it!!

Post by kailashtown » Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:28 am

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=21654


larry m8
ive got the "American dream" , I found it !!!

listed below

so can we choose something else:-)

something a little more international perhaps ???

im feeling a little excluded:-(

i like burningman because its positive - positivity and something so exclusive might be ........

not positive lets say

or "non virtuous" might be better




check out.......

its knowing about world affairs!!!


geography lessons!!!



its saving people then pushing them over!!!


no its freedom!!!!!!!



and believing fox news!!!!


or having a gun!!!!


war on 9/11!!!!!


arresting Osama bin Laden !!!


Beating Michael Moore!!!!


pairs hilton charts

spectabillis
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Post by spectabillis » Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:30 am

yikes, i think i regret my havidol post if it helps drift things like this.

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Rabbi Dali Rick
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...... This Is Just A Test... One You Won't Pass ........

Post by Rabbi Dali Rick » Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:19 am

somebody double Spect's meds.... he's becoming lucid again....






the rebbi

nbraziel
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don't tase me

Post by nbraziel » Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:09 pm

my american dream...

Lyman
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Post by Lyman » Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:56 pm

The American Dream... skyscrapers, immigrants, indians, gold rush, cowboys, sports cars, TV, Superman, baseball, apple pie, steaks, Hollywood, the Statue of Liberty, and owning your own land.

There is no Neo-American Dream; anyone who thinks of such things does not necessarily tie the USA to the world's future direction. I don't.

The theme is disappointing, but I wouldn't mind making a camp that incorporates all those things I just listed. ;)

I think I like "Monkeys to Robots" about 2489762978398243928x more though. :)

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BAS
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Post by BAS » Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:16 pm

Maybe "Everything, All the Time!" is a quick and easy summary of the American Dream? :?


B.
"Nothing is withheld from us which we have conceived to do.
Do things that have never been done."
--Russell Kirsch

peter cheeseman
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Post by peter cheeseman » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:04 am

:cry:

I am an Australian burner (since 1999), and for me the 2007 burn was the best ever! Returning from BM this year we were already planning our 2008 camp. I cannot describe the horrible sinking feeling and disbelief we all felt when he learned that it was to be "The American Dream". We are not American, and so this theme has no resonance for us--in fact we feel positively excluded! The theme description/propaganda says that this theme is not about the "the red, white and blue", and yet the image presented with the theme description has a red, white and blue flag background. Even more strange is the statement that the 2008 man will have flags from all nations--if so, then in what way is this the "American Dream"? Why such a political theme? Why such a slap in the face for international participants? Is there any way it could be changed to something more inclusive?

Many posters have suggested that we all just ignore the theme and do our own thing, but this is not very inspiring or unifying. I will probably not go next year because of this theme, and I find this very depressing.
rocketscientist

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BAS
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Post by BAS » Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:28 am

Well, they also say it isn't about flag burning, yet the base of the Man will be covered in flags, which means that, unless the flags are removed or made of concrete or some such, they will be burning flags.... So, I guess, Mixed Messages might be the Secret Theme(tm) this year! (Maybe even so secret, the BMORG isn't even aware of it!)

Yeah, it doesn't seem to be the best or most well thought out theme, but, historically, the theme doesn't change once announced. I kind of like it from the view-point that people can get really creative in interpreting it-- such as, what do non-Americans think about the American Dream? What do they feel it is? Should be? etc.

Just my US$0.002 (darned slipping value!)

(Maybe someone should do a "Pay Day Loan/ Car Title Loan" office as their camp for 2008?)

B.
"Nothing is withheld from us which we have conceived to do.
Do things that have never been done."
--Russell Kirsch

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AntiM
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Post by AntiM » Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:09 am

BAS wrote: (Maybe someone should do a "Pay Day Loan/ Car Title Loan" office as their camp for 2008?)

B.
and get Gary Coleman as one of the camp members?

(Don't know if it is just local, but he shills for one of those joints here in Utah).

nbraziel
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Post by nbraziel » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:46 am

hey peter cheeseman,

please rethink. i had some wonderful experiences meeting international travelers this year and, while your decision not to attend would represent a rejection of bmorg, your fellow burners would be the real ones punished. ;)

considering we're in the process of EXPORTING the american dream (forcibly) these days, "outside" voices could be especially powerful.

my real frustration is this: let's be pragmatic. no matter how many times people swear to have open-minded, bi-directional discussions, politics are polarizing. they encourage people to proselytize, not to listen. whether there's inherent value in such debates or not, a lot of people enjoy the week long reprieve from them at the burn, and this topic makes escape all but impossible.

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Post by peter cheeseman » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:58 am

OK, the majority of us seem to agree that the current 2008 theme is uninspiring, divisive and overly political (i.e. sucks). I am guessing that BMORG is like other large organizations, and will not admit they made a mistake, or claim "it is too late to change now". This leaves us with the options of not going in 2008 (painful) or pretending the 2008 theme doesn't exist. However, this last option leaves the 2008 theme as "whatever"--itself not very inspiring. I propose we all pretend that the 2008 theme is "Dream World". At least this keeps the half of the official theme! "Dream World" suggests to me Surrealism, Dali, Utopia, Freud,....plenty to work with here.
rocketscientist

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COPPERFISH
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Re: Burning Man philosophies

Post by COPPERFISH » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:02 pm

Saki wrote:There seems to be two different Burning Man philosophies.
only two!?!

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bobalou
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Post by bobalou » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:18 pm

Whew! It's taken me about a week to get through this topic. And at that, I've only skimmed some of the longer posts, while reading most of the shorter ones. I answered the poll before I read them, and my opinion has not changed. I'm one of those who said it's sort of OK.

I'm not opposed to themes really, I just don't get into them all that much. Especially pirates and space ships and stuff. Except, I DID embrace this years theme, and was a bit surprised at how many people who did embrace it actually got it. i.e., not as many leprechauns as I expected.

So...here we have a poll in which 288 people, out of 4,000 eplaya members have voted. And how many burners are there? Probably a couple of hundred thousand people who claim that moniker. Not all go every year, and looks like 2008 will not be an exception.

There have been 439 posts on this thread, and it looks like most of them come from maybe a dozen people. Over 11,000 have "viewed" this discussion. Presumably, most of them didn't get sucked into the arguments here, and moved on.

For the most part, it's an interesting discussion. A lot of good thoughts on why people like it or not, and how they plan to incorporate this theme into their art work. And quite a few, "I'm gonna take my football and go home" posts as well.

The thing I've found to be annoying is the assumption on the part of some posters that there is some kind of group consensus amongst burners, that this years theme is completely unacceptable. I'd rather think that the statistics I've quoted here, show that this thread, and it's accompanying poll, only represents a handful of burners. Most of the people I've talked to outside eplaya don't seem to care much one way or the other about it, although I do know one who says they won't go.

If only 239 people voted in this poll, and 11,000 looked at it and didn't take the time to vote, I'd think that shows massive disinterest.

Also, while I found an answer in the poll that pretty much expresses the way I feel, there really should have been more choices. Like, "I don't really pay attention to themes". And the "lame, lame, lame" choice should have rather said something more like, "I extremely dislike this theme." Calling it lame says to me more like, "This theme doesn't say anything." The most vocal objections here are not because it's lame, but because they feel it profoundly expresses an idea that they don't like.

But it HAS sparked a lot of interesting discussion, about the theme itself, and about Burning Man in general, and I think that's a good thing.

Enough rambling. I'm going again in 2008. I expect I'll see a lot of interesting interpertations of the theme. And I expect I'll see lots of monkeys.

Bobalou,
"My first burn was the best one, and they've gotten better ever since."

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NoAngel
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Post by NoAngel » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:41 pm

Bobalou has a point. The number of participants, however involved in burning man, is vastly greater than the <400 votes for a change of theme. Our little online bitch festival, regardless of your position, may mean little to the vast majority of Burners.

That being said. I still appreciate my minute on the soap box here

My first reaction to the theme, after just returning from the playa, was much the same as many of the posters here, "WTF! Your joking! Right?"

After a little re-entry time I've changed my mind. Especially after reading many of the posts on this subject. I think it's brilliant! At least it made me think. Green Man didn't.

Why not the American Dream? Equality, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. Doesn't sound like what we've been getting but it certainly sounds better than Intolerance, Rigidity, and the Pursuit of Oppression.

The "American Dream" has been totally co opted and not for the good. Take it back. Make it our own. This is Burning Man. What could be more American than inviting 50,000 of our friends, from around the world, for a gigantic festival dedicated to the idea that being Human, we are all welcome (& please do something radical, possibly irritating, maybe brilliant, or maybe totally fucking fantastic).

I can't wait to see what people will do with this. Good or bad.

Thanks for the minute on the soap box......

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joya
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Post by joya » Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:56 pm

klone138 wrote:Im just posting another one just to say this is the worst theme EVER! Fuck the american dream. Everyone that hates this theme should write the burning man staff a quick email and tell em how you feel. Or else shut the fuck up. IF YOU DONT LIKE IT...DO SOMETHING! Heres a perfect way to be heard. [email protected]
Done and done. Thank you, klone.

Joya

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Is this a joke? If not: Yes! The Theme is Lame, Lame Lame

Post by markustg » Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:28 pm

I remember the Burning Man staff posting an April Fools Day joke, changing the 2007 theme. This seems so much like that one!

But if this is real...

Burning Man is a global event. It is not only for citizens of the United States. Many people travel to Burning Man from Europe, Asia, Australia and even Africa to attend.

This theme strikes me as small-minded, parochial and inconsistent with the principle of inclusion -- we are essentially excluding all non-U.S. citizens as well as those who find concepts such as national patriotism to be a thing of the past. Where we are is global, regional and local. Nations are something hat are having less and less relevance in our world today. Our fights for freedom and equality can no longer be won on simply national levels -- but on a global level.

- Markus Thorndike

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theCryptofishist
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Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:33 pm

I'm not wild about the theme, the themes have basically left me cold, except for the Floating World (my first year) which, because I'm a fish, I loved. Even then, I was a little uncomfortable with the actual title because it comes from a Japanese term for a certain kind of prostitution or cortisanship (something like demimonde I take it, and I'm not really thrilled with the marginalization of women in the madonna/whore model that it possibly implies.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:47 pm

whoops, I got distracted.
So I don't like the theme, but I think you can work with it.
Dreams about america from the rest of the world: maybe we are less warlike or even overreach ourselves and have a decline and fall; or dream that other countries begin to embody the freedoms inserted in our constitution; etc.
What if the continent itself could dream?
What of the dreams of the peoples we pushed out of the way when we settled this land?
How about a symbolic representation of the suburban dreamer being strangled by a picket fence?
What about a Day of The Dead themed display, dreams of the Mexicans who were here before us (Nevada is a spanish word, after all) and who are crossing the border in pursuit of their dreams?
Dreams of the wooly mammoths who used to live here.
What is "american" anyway?

The only practical reason to follow the theme is if you are asking for a grant, then you have to package your art in a themic way.

I pretty much ignore the theme (two of my treasured pieces of schwag is a "Vault to Heaven" and a "Fault of Kevin" takes on the vault of heaven theme that people played with and got those) and the description of the skyscraper sounds pretty fucking tacky to me. but the american dream can be a dream of inclusion if you choose to make art that embodies that dream.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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spidermonkey
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Post by spidermonkey » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:34 am

is the american dream supposed to be a good thing? do most think of t that way?

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Post by lurker » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:27 am

Burning Man is a global event. It is not only for citizens of the United States. Many people travel to Burning Man from Europe, Asia, Australia and even Africa to attend
No, Burning Man is an American event. it takes place only here. Many people come from around the world to participate in this event created by and for Americans. It's art, anarchic style, and embrace of extreme individual self reliance appeal to people from all corners of the Earth.

We do not waste time slicing the local origins off the events we travel to in other countries, why must the local origins of Burning Man be sliced off?

Why is it so bad that it be American?
"Life is like a box of razor blades. Sharp, shiny, and good for removing unwanted body hair"

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Post by SFNathan » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:52 pm

"No, Burning Man is an American event. it takes place only here. Many people come from around the world to participate in this event created by and for Americans. It's art, anarchic style, and embrace of extreme individual self reliance appeal to people from all corners of the Earth."

As a San Franciscan, I've always thought of Burning Man as a very "San Francisco" event that we share with Nevada, since San Francisco couldn't accomodate Burning Man given all the fire art and the size of the event. The event had to be moved to Nevada to accomodate the scope of the event (even 'though the Burning Man organization still resides in San Francisco and a huge number of Burners come directly from the City). So we could say that its really a Nevada/San Francisco event since its organized in San Francisco and produced in Nevada, and the rest of you Burners who travel there are really visitors to "our" event.

But that would be bullshit, just like saying that Burning Man is strictly an American event. Burning Man is a global event, an American event, a "uniquely San Francisco" event, and very much a Nevada event, because people from all over the world, the nation, and especially a large number of San Franciscans and Nevadans come to create this event together.

Burning Man is ALL of ours, Lurker. International Burners are just as much Burners as San Franciscans, Nevadans, or people who come from anywhere in America. We all "come home" there, even if none of us live on the playa.

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