Exodus limits and carpooling

[robbidobbs]

My response to anyone complaining about how "worthless" BMIR is for Exodus, is the same to any complaints: volunteer. If there was a roving reporter who was out there radioing back info to the station for the two days of Exodus then I'm sure they'd fucking put that information on the air. SO get an international safety orange vest on and jump in. Quit fucking complaining and volunteer. The BMIR people are trying to get their shit packed up too and they probably would welcome the last day help.

[mdmf007]

Why dont we make use of directing and rerouting departing bulk traffic into intervals of ten cars..to three mile then issue the next 10
to 9 mileand the next routed to
the twelve mile exits?..
This would function at lot like the metered lights that get you syncronised with the rush hour crush back in the default as you enter onto the freeway.
Why do we all have to exit at one gate way when several exist?
It would definatley keep things moving.

Why not use 3, and 12 mile. Because the BLM says not too.
later

[bradtem]

While the BLM is charged with protecting the Playa, they also are keen on a workable exodus, so what's important is their reasons for whatever rules they set down.

One note earlier in the thread said they were able to fill up the blacktop entirely with the main exit if they worked at it. This suggests there are other bottlenecks than the turn onto the blacktop. If so, that means using additional exits is not just lots of extra work for nothing, but also could make it worse by making congestion problems where the stream of traffic from the 12 mile exit meets the stream coming at the 3 mile exit. You would need additional traffic control there.

I suspect that a temporary traffic light at the main exit would provide more than enough flow to match the bottleneck that, I am presuming, is along the road or in Gerlach or Empire.

If it's in Gerlach, use of Jungo road could improve the flow (but would require traffic management lights at the junction of Jungo and 447) but if it's in Empire, that would not help.

(If it's in Gerlach or Empire, directing San Franciscans via Alturas would help, but that adds 3-4 hours to the trip at least, and is very un-green, and would require very difficult logistics to enforce.)

We spend the wait on the Playa so we assume the problem is on the playa, but they can have as many lanes on the playa as they want.

Keeping solid flow through Gerlach-Empire would also be hard work, but is not out of the question -- but then it would turn Burning Man's biggest fans in the area, the businesses who do a lot of business around the event, away from us to some degree. If that's the limit it is hard to see a way around it, though an argument can be made that allowing the event to grow helps the towns even if they only get business coming in and much less leaving. (It is possible, but requires workers, to have a diversion path into the towns and a light to allow bursts of the traffic that got off the road to rejoin the flow. That's a lot of people to have working such a solution.

[dr.placebo]

[please excuse duplicate info]

My observation (as a first time Exodus volunteer, not an expert) is that two lanes leaving the playa could back up with any little glitch along the highway, and sometimes we had to go to single lane. Exodus does put 3-4 flaggers in Gerlach to help with traffic. Exodus is sometimes able to help out on the highway, but anything serious requires LEO and tow truck involvement.

A temporary traffic light might be a good idea, but a flagger will be better able to cope with the unexpected. I'd support a test, but a traffic light is not able to pick up traffic cones that someone has knocked over or to report observed problems.

In short, I think that we are close to the traffic limit for the road at least during daylight hours (when volunteers are available). Adding more playa exits just moves the problem. I'd be happy to have a real traffic control engineer prove me wrong, though.

Another way to assist Exodus is to stretch it out. We actually had more folks leaving early this year (before the Temple burn), which made the situation a bit better than 2006 (believe it or not). Sanctioning a Tuesday exit (not currently officially encouraged) could help as well.

[bradtem]

A light would be under control of the flagger, who (if the light doesn't offer the cross direction) would be using a stop flag for the people coming on the blacktop. The purpose would be to get the flow good, because people are happy to turn without stopping if presented with a green light or green arrow, but will proceed with caution with a human being standing in the road waving a flag, even if the flag is saying "go, go, go."

Anyway, such lights are available for rental from many rental agencies as they are used by construction crews all the time.

But as you note, there may be no need for greater throughput at the turn. It may be that what is needed is better "secure your load" reminders. Alas, if what is needed is fewer breakdowns, I don't see much that can help with that, it seems in the nature of the sort of vehicles that come to the city. Nobody thinks they will be the one with a breakdown, so even if you could punish it, it wouldn't help.

So in the end the answers remain having fewer vehicles and spreading out departure times, and maybe more traffic going north.

Actually, I just figured a way you could promote and enforce traffic going north, and let them go directly if the bottleneck is truly at Gerlach or beyond.

a) At the gate, or in advance, you can get an "exit North" pass for $25 plus a $300 deposit. Your car licence plate is written on it. If you come in a different car, get it changed at stamped at the gate.

b) If you decide you don't need to leave during the rush or won't go north, you can redeem on playa, and get your deposit back, plus perhaps even some of the $25.

c) If you need to exit during the rush, use your exit North pass to get into a special shorter line. Your licence plate is checked and your time of departure written on it. You get to go in the shorter line because you're not adding to the bottleneck in Gerlach and south, we we're getting more cars off the playa because of you.

d) In Cedarville, a local business will return your deposit for your card, checking your plate and that the timestamp is the right day. The $25 goes to help pay for this program, and the business keeps enough of it to make this worth their while. (It's probably a gas station or store which may be willing to do this just because it means every burner stops at their store, but if not, they can keep some of the $25.) You sign your card too and pass it over, and the cards are put in a safety deposit box or similar.

(The cards could also be sold in Cedarville on the way in, but I don't see a need for that.)

The deposit has to be high enough that you don't get more than a very few thinking it's worth paying just to bypass the line. Not that it might not be bad to help fund the event by people who pay to bypass the line, just like congestion charges in London, but that would not be a a very burner-style way of doing things, would it? On the other hand, few of the folks going north would not be happy to pay $25 for their whole car to save several hours of idling in line. (Or whatever the appropriate amount is to fund this program and encouraging the Cedarville redeemer.)

I don't know if we need to find a way to get the people departing north out faster. I just write this down as a way to make it work, if we wanted to. Myself I've gone south 9 out of my 10 years, north only once, so this is not for me.

Of course those who did not redeem (ie. gave up their deposit and drove south) could be identified if we really wanted to, but I don't see a big need for that.

[mdmf007]

Whats the 300 for - Just sell a damn sticker or pass that goes in your window. Doenst need to be complicated.

I for one would rather see more exits open.
Other options

Put more room between ig burns, then only the people that want to really see both stay. Burn the dude on friday, temple on sunday.

or open Jungo from directly east.

or all the above. But no matter what you still have 40-45 thousand people trying to leave on monday and tuesday. with the majority taking one lane out.

later

[bradtem]

You can't just sell a pass that bypasses the wait for a modest fee because people would just by the pass and go South anyway. You need to know they really left by the alternate route, which is why you would give the deposit back in Cedarville. Jungo road is harder to enforce, as there are no people until Winnemucca.

More lanes or more exits off the playa only make things worse if they all feed into the same chokepoint. I haven't yet seen a good analysis of where that is, but it seems to be either Gerlach, Empire or the blacktop to Gerlach itself, due to breakdowns and people pulling over.

(Now I've never left at the true peak of exodus. At times I have left the chokepoint has seemed to be the turn onto the blacktop. More exits would not help that because you have a merge problem where they all come together. A flagger/traffic light is the best way to help that.)

[Ugly Dougly]

Or stay an extra day to help clean up.